Target Audience / PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E23

From this point on, all of the countless lives lost, every species assimilated, and all the civilizations destroyed by the Borg - everywhere in the galaxy - are the result of The Picard's inability to do the right thing. How many billions of innocent beings were ultimately sacrificed simply because The Picard felt sorry for one Borg drone?

Jim J

2025-03-19 19:25:45 +0000 UTC

I have to disagree on the bad writing front. They aren't pure machines. They were individuals once, until assimilated. They couldn't make them one dimensional. THAT would've been bad writing. It would work in a book, but not a series. And finding the human in them gave us...things I can't talk about. But, I still would've sent Hugh to kill them all.

startrekiborg

2025-02-23 20:38:53 +0000 UTC

The Borg were scary and fantastic antagonists because they were inhuman, they were really different. Humanizing them ruins them. It's stupid and completely preposterous! BAD WRITING!!

Jovet

2025-02-23 20:28:09 +0000 UTC

I cannot hardly WAIT until we can talk about this in the future!

Jovet

2025-02-23 20:26:01 +0000 UTC

Out of character for everyone. The Borg. Picard. Guinan.

Jovet

2025-02-23 20:25:10 +0000 UTC

I know it's an unrealistic scenario but I'm trying to set up a morally unambiguous choice. Which doesn't exist in real life. "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." Isaac Asimov, Foundation

Michael Metrick

2025-02-19 22:34:33 +0000 UTC

Wow, the responses to how people like or dislike this episode are all over the place! That goes to show when that happens, it's probably a great story that brings people to it from a wide variety of perspectives. Excellent writing and production values, Star Trek!

Rhett Coates

2025-02-08 22:14:40 +0000 UTC

Borg are people, too. (Well, the were, anyway.)

Rhett Coates

2025-02-08 22:03:50 +0000 UTC

Definitely an S. This touches on the effect of the Borg on Picard and Guinan. Great Geordie episode as well. Wow… when a Hugh used “I” instead of “we”. And that look to Geordie at the end. This is one of my favorite TNG episodes.

Crankygrandma

2025-02-08 04:44:49 +0000 UTC

Another great ethical dilemma episode with some awesome character interactions, especially between Guinan and Picard.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-02-07 20:12:28 +0000 UTC

I understand your point of view, but I would argue that’s when it’s most essential to stand with your ethics.

Pokeysaurus

2025-02-07 13:11:19 +0000 UTC

You can’t stand on ideals and principles when everyone is dead or assimilated

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-02-06 20:00:44 +0000 UTC

I think its because normally their individuality is erased before they are fully integrated into the hive, whereas Hugh gets a split-second of full access before the contaminated thinking is reset. In real-world networking, secure access tokens grant instant access and therefore are used by hackers to implant malicious code. Thats how I see this episode. An accidental hacking of the Borg secure network. But again, to each their own

Chris Mickelson

2025-02-06 18:18:34 +0000 UTC

I’m with you, Pokeysaurus. Picard is the best captain because he isn’t a genocidal madman. How we win DOES matter. 👍

Raphael Gaytan

2025-02-06 17:09:04 +0000 UTC

Hugh is one of the most memorable characters in the entire franchise, a villain, who shows that they’re not truly a villain, but an entity caught in circumstance And the required adjustment of prejudices amongst the entire crew, and the growth and understanding that humanity can be found anywhere when nurtured

Thicketdweller

2025-02-06 16:39:20 +0000 UTC

This has been one of my favorite episodes for a long time. Both Guinan AND Picard are WRONG! But they're also both able to admit it in the end. This did serve to make the Borg somewhat less scary, but only a little bit. And as this is the first time we've seen them since the beginning of Season 4, they're not being worn out. S-tier.

John

2025-02-06 14:40:08 +0000 UTC

The way the show is able to show Picard being "off balance" without really any flawed behavior just shows its quality. Lots of bad tv would have a character yell or act stupid to show they are emotionally distressed, here Picard is acting normally, he is just doing so with more doubt in his voice, and more pauses before speaking. It's great subtle detail. Also it's interesting this might be the first time we ever seen Guinan be arguably "flawed". It's really well played, and does a great job of making it more impactful when she challenges Picard later. Also, there are no easy answers if what they did in the end was the right thing. S-tier.

Mr Moxie

2025-02-06 10:28:18 +0000 UTC

this episode is "erased from canon" from me. It makes no sense. The idea that having Hugh be assimilated would introduce "individuality" to the borg, the borg assimilate species all the time and arent affected by their individuality.

paultardspambot .

2025-02-06 08:29:35 +0000 UTC

This episode does what Star Trek does best, it makes you think. Up to this point, the Borg have been like a force of nature. You can't reason with a hurricane. Picard was unwillingly assimilated and stripped of his individuality, but we knew there was still some of Picard in there. What about someone who has always been a part of the collective? Someone for whom the idea of individuality is unthinkable. How would they react to being cut off and alone? How would you react to that?

Encarta

2025-02-06 03:26:16 +0000 UTC

I like that Picard, the paradigm of ethics, is now consumed with revenge. It demonstrates that he's not completely healed from his Borg experience and might never be.

Jeffrey P

2025-02-06 01:31:23 +0000 UTC

@Phil I agree, but the Federation has to be defended from more than just external threats. It also needs to be defended against its ideals being warped and discarded.

Pokeysaurus

2025-02-06 01:00:23 +0000 UTC

A definite fan favorite and one of mine.

Mike Rogers

2025-02-05 15:52:25 +0000 UTC

Easy S great episode and the fencing scene is amazing

General Trelane

2025-02-05 11:34:05 +0000 UTC

Another favorite of mine from this season. Definitely in the top 20 episodes of the whole series as well for me. Easily an 'S'.

Boggle

2025-02-05 09:25:31 +0000 UTC

It's all over the place. Lol

startrekiborg

2025-02-05 05:52:32 +0000 UTC

It would not have been good for his character but sparing us from future Borg stories would have been great, IMO.

Shanelle

2025-02-05 05:45:06 +0000 UTC

Now I have to look for his comment…

Shanelle

2025-02-05 05:40:42 +0000 UTC

The one episode where Guinan is learning a lesson. I really enjoy this episode. Every character has to overcome their past prejudices and biases when their roles are reversed facing a mortal enemy. All around great episode. A+ for me.

Nathan Walker

2025-02-05 04:46:42 +0000 UTC

Credit where credit is due: this is the one way to bring the Borg back and have it not be silly. I would argue Picard's decision here isn't as hard as it could be because the Federation isn't on the verge of being conquered.

Loot Narsbaar

2025-02-05 04:16:44 +0000 UTC

One change I would make is to keep Guinan on the opposing side of Hugh. From where she started it’s unrealistic to me how she changed her opinion so quickly and so drastically. Also, that would give Picard a little pressure on both sides.

Shanelle

2025-02-05 03:28:48 +0000 UTC

I find Hugh is a juxtaposition to Data. A human modeled to be a machine, or vice versa?

Patrick Smith

2025-02-05 02:51:34 +0000 UTC

The Borg do, truly, deserve it

Evan Guthrie

2025-02-05 02:13:27 +0000 UTC

When this was first shown, I didn't understand why Geordi chose the name "Hugh." Then we got to the scene where Hugh looks at Picard and says "I am Hugh" ("I am you") and I got it.

Jeff

2025-02-05 01:17:54 +0000 UTC

Point recognized. Counter-argument: intent is 9/10 of the law. Kirk didn't blow up Praxis, but doing nothing to help intentionally, in order to harm, is wrong.

Juan Tutrífor

2025-02-05 01:05:10 +0000 UTC

Point of order: Kirk's was let them die. Picard's was MAKE them die! One is "I don't care what happens to them," and one is "I want this to happen to them."

tyranusfan

2025-02-05 01:01:08 +0000 UTC

The scenes between Guinan/Hugh and Picard/Hugh are the best parts. Watching the characters soften toward the Borg was interesting, given the history.

tyranusfan

2025-02-05 00:59:16 +0000 UTC

Kirk & Picard: "Let them die." With you guys doing the shows & movies chronologically, I never realized how close in time these brief villain moments for the captains were. Star Trek 6 was only a month or two removed from Picard trying to go nuclear.

Juan Tutrífor

2025-02-05 00:48:37 +0000 UTC

I bet you never expected to feel genuine hopefulness and then sorrow for a Borg drone...

Paul

2025-02-05 00:41:18 +0000 UTC

From Picard and Guinan character flip to Beverly crusher being the absolute heart of this episode and it’s sad ending, yeah, this is an S… for all the small things! Yeah Picard should have talked to Troi after he talked to Hugh, but that’s not enough to drop this to an A for me !

Sixto

2025-02-05 00:04:17 +0000 UTC

One of my personal top ten, so a S from me for that reason alone.

Chris Mickelson

2025-02-04 23:34:01 +0000 UTC

Well said!

PIG

2025-02-04 23:10:26 +0000 UTC

After reading the comments, I think three things are clear: 1. A lot of people like this episode. 2. It's a great deal more controversial than I once thought. 3. Jovet REALLY doesn't like the Borg. I think someone he loved was assimilated. ;

startrekiborg

2025-02-04 23:09:41 +0000 UTC

Oh for sure. You're right and they definitely are. But I would argue that The Borg and the others that you listed, perhaps lose their terrifying effect after a couple of encounters. So I'm glad they were added a bit of depth and a bit of mystery with Hugh being added back into the collective. It was a nice direction to go in with their story. I think It would be tough after BoBW to still present them the same way from a writing perspective, even though they're still every bit as terrifying.

Adam Dearn

2025-02-04 23:04:31 +0000 UTC

Yea, that's why I'll leave it there. I didn’t cross that line. But, I'll delete it anyway.

startrekiborg

2025-02-04 22:59:26 +0000 UTC

Easy S tier for “son of a B this show is so good!” I never once thought I’d feel for a Borg before this episode, but to me Hugh is a little cybernetic treasure in Trek.

Brian Moore

2025-02-04 22:58:51 +0000 UTC

A great episode. Nice continuity with the Best of Both Worlds. Doing what Star Trek does best: presents us with a moral dilemma but does not give us an answer. Let each audience member decide what he/she thinks would be the correct response (which is exactly what we are seeing in this Patron discussion).

Collin Freeman

2025-02-04 22:54:31 +0000 UTC

@Jovet Ever hear of a cult? Hell, some religions even. Propaganda, indoctrination. Social media. Sporting events, riots. Humans give up their individuality all the time to join the mob they support the most. Humans get over-powered by it. And BOBW and this episode proves you incorrect. Seperate from the Collective, a Borg drone CAN regain individuality. Just as a mob member can come to realize the stupidity of the group think. It's nice and easy to live in a binary, black/white, good/evil, right/wrong world, but we don't. That does mean good people can do bad, but it also means bad people can do good. People like to see that ambiguity as a grim reality, but it's just as much a hopeful one.

Nolan

2025-02-04 22:24:24 +0000 UTC

There'd just be another guy to fill his place. Germany was angry about the reparations from WWI, the nation was primed for a populist leader to step up and direct their frustrations towards something else. And even if preventing Hitler prevented the War, you'd also prevent technological advancements and research that saved countless lives, as well as preventing the societal changes that resulted from the war. You probably wouldn't have the smartphone to debate on if Japan hadn't reshaped its society in the aftermath of the war. So your "right thing" just caused untold deaths and prevented or at least severely delayed societal advancement to the point where we can have the lives we do today. Either that, or a more competent guy than Hitler rises up and we potentially end up a fasict-state run planet or are all burned to a crisp in nuclear hellfire. Hitler was an evil man, and I hate war, but that's a lot to gamble on the "right thing." And Germany, well, they got the choice and have been on the redemption road ever since. They're the one country that values the importance of avoiding evil like that more than any other.

Nolan

2025-02-04 22:15:08 +0000 UTC

They're supposed to be one-dimensionally terrifying. Like the Daleks, or The Bugs/Mimics, or The Machines, or the Xenomorphs, or the Demogorgons.

Jovet

2025-02-04 22:03:50 +0000 UTC

She sure doesn't respect viruses, and those are considered alive. Same for certain bacteria. At least prions are not alive.

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:58:49 +0000 UTC

Part of me is disappointed they didn't give "Hugh" the visual logic poison just so we could find out if it would have actually worked.

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:57:54 +0000 UTC

@Nolan Human collectives, for lack of a better term, are not comparable to The Borg. No human-devised collective could completely rob a human being of his individuality. But The Borg can.

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:51:31 +0000 UTC

@Timothy Nikiforovs The drones are the collective. Think of the drones like cells in your body. They can't be separated so easily. Picard's recovery can be excused because his assimilation was brief and rather special considering the circumstances.

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:49:11 +0000 UTC

I know where you’re going - into spoiler territory

Paul Rymer

2025-02-04 21:44:03 +0000 UTC

The Borg are a threat to every species that doesn’t stand shoulder to shoulder with the Q in near omnipotence. Returning Hugh to the collective so that they may see the traits that humanity possesses and holds dear like individuality, friendship, curiosity and innovation doesn’t make any sense because the borg are familiar with these traits because they have assimilated them many times over, including those traits of Picard. They adapt and conquer. Picard is wrong

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-02-04 21:43:02 +0000 UTC

Good episode with a solid hook. I don't like them making Beverly the villain/devil's advocate. Usually she is all about respecting life in all its forms.

Cirk Bejnar

2025-02-04 21:41:04 +0000 UTC

Solid A episode, but not one of my favorites.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-02-04 21:37:44 +0000 UTC

Read the book "11/22/63". What seems like the right thing may lead to a far worse outcome. We won WWII in part due to Hitler's incompetence. If you remove him, the person who takes his place might well be more skilled, and perhaps even more extreme.

Nerd's Gold

2025-02-04 21:37:23 +0000 UTC

I just don't see how any individuality survives being attached to the Borg collective. At time of assimilation or after.

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:32:52 +0000 UTC

The flip side of the Prime Directive. The Borg are clearly a living, growing civilization with a unique culture. Picard really stays true to his absolute devotion to the Prime Directive (on a macro level).

Nerd's Gold

2025-02-04 21:32:16 +0000 UTC

Some people are just flat-out evil. Period. They should be pitied, yes, but they should not be enabled. The Doctor saved The Master numerous times but he never learned his lesson. Father Cornelius saved Zorg's life, and it could have destroyed all life in the universe. Mantrid ended up destroying the entire light universe.

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:31:13 +0000 UTC

You forcefully impacted all of the nails into the cranial unit of this episode. 🎖️

Jovet

2025-02-04 21:26:14 +0000 UTC

I like this one. While the Borg are enjoyable villains, they are a bit one dimensional overall. From a writing stand point it would be tough to mine unique stories from a nameless, faceless, collective with one objective and (almost) no room for reason. I think this was a great direction to go with their story and watching the crew wrestle with this moral juggernaut of a problem was interesting. Starfleet seeks out new life, not to destroy it, no matter how hostile. Even if the Borg would inevitably assimilate or destroy them, without question. The Borg used Picard to kill thousands of people. I'm not sure committing genocide against them in return would be the best course of action. Especially after seeing a glimmer of hope in Hugh.

Adam Dearn

2025-02-04 21:15:51 +0000 UTC

I am so torn on this one. GOOD: Picard & Guinan's good nature and generosity being tested and pushed to its limits. The tension with the drone onboard. The creative idea to try to destroy the Collective. Geordi's bonding with the drone. Del Arco's performance. BAD: They equate the virus as racially genocidal. I'm sorry, but the Borg are not a race! As far as we know, every drone has been forcibly subjugated to serve the Collective against their will. It's slavery we're talking about here, not a naturally developed race with its own culture and customs. They force OTHER races to become glorified CPUs! Disrupting their collective consciousness would be LIBERATION, not genocide! Picard of all people should understand this better. The ethical dilemma presented here just isn't well thought through. The "solution" they come up with makes no sense. Why would Hugh regaining a sense of individuality have any impact whatsoever when he is reintroduced into the Collective? Picard had individuality when he was easily assimilated. Every assimilated drone would have brought individuality into the Collective. The assimilation process and connection to the Collective clearly overpowers any individuality that might remain. This episode is just so frustrating with how uncharacteristically thoughtless it is toward the end. Everything's really great until the "we can't do this" moment. Then it tumbles like a stack of dominoes. On balance I'm left with a B, for 'boy I'm conflicted!'

Lovok

2025-02-04 21:11:10 +0000 UTC

Let them die!!

startrekiborg

2025-02-04 21:08:20 +0000 UTC

If you could go back in time and kill Hitler's mother would you do it? I would because I'm not going to let my personal sense of morals stop me from doing the right thing.

Michael Metrick

2025-02-04 21:00:53 +0000 UTC

And how many collectives throughout human history could be considered "evil" yet have within them good individuals, some who have to fight through indoctrination and propaganda? If an alien species arrived at Earth and examined our history, would we be treated as a dangerous, violent collective, or as individuals on a spectrum? Which would you hope they choose?

Nolan

2025-02-04 20:50:16 +0000 UTC

"You had a chance to destroy an enemy, but instead made the moral choice and let them live, so now every evil act they commit since then is on you." Is such a simplistic and reductive argument. Letting someone evil live isn't just moral because killing is wrong, it's moral because it allows a chance for redemption. For that evil to atone and try to amend their actions. You kill them, you might be preventing further potential evil, but you're also preventing potential good. Letting someone live is giving them choice. An opportunity. If they don't take that chance to change, that is still that evil's choice. They made the choice. Not you. It's on them. Not you as the one that spared them. Picard sent off Hugh with newfound individuality and understanding. He was giving the Borg a choice. The Borg don't give choices. For Picard to give Hugh an understanding of choice, then not give him a choice to be a weapon of genocide is worse than the Borg, it is wrong. To rob the Borg the chance to be become something better is wrong. To kill the billions of people victimized by the Borg is wrong. Picard gave them a choice. They're the ones that have to make it. It isn't on him.

Nolan

2025-02-04 20:27:34 +0000 UTC

After the extravaganza of the S3 finale and how widely accepted it was, it was pretty smart on the writers part to not try to top that. Instead they very successfully explore the idea of a Borg suddenly faced with the aspect of individuality. Such a great metaphor for a coming of age teen: no longer just a member of their family, but now he has to find out who he is. The genocide storyline is compelling, but I’m much more interested in Picard and Guinan facing their demons. Huge kudos to Jonathan Del Arco for creating a very memorable character. S for “singularity rules!”

Column Meanie

2025-02-04 20:24:24 +0000 UTC

LOL I find the acting to be a bit robotic. I was probably too harsh for instance i loved BOBW Parts 1 & 3 (Family), but mostly for the human drama that it brought forth.

Paul Hess

2025-02-04 20:19:08 +0000 UTC

I'd guess he was never able to adapt to the concept of techno space zombies. Just not the kind of storytelling he can easily assimilate.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-02-04 20:16:49 +0000 UTC

But the borg aren't individuals. The collective is evil, but the drones have no say. Picard would never have done what they made him do, and with a little time to remember what it is to be an individual, Hugh refuses to go along with it either.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-02-04 20:14:35 +0000 UTC

It's basically the trolley dilemma when you think about it. Both Picard and Hugh demonstrate that there are still people trapped inside every drone who could be liberated. They're innocent victims so ethically you would want to try and free them. On the other, more practical hand, that's not likely to happen outside of rare cases, so choosing to wipe out the borg is sacrificing the people they're already robbed of their individuality, but it prevents the same from happening to anyone else in the future.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-02-04 20:10:00 +0000 UTC

good question

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-02-04 20:05:52 +0000 UTC

Certainly from a strategic standpoint, he absolutely should have done it. But of course taking a step back, Star Trek is all about these kinds of moral dilemmas, and if they did in the borg here, we'd never get any further stories with them, which is a good or bad thing depending who you ask.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-02-04 20:04:04 +0000 UTC

Way to escalate! The show was teaching a lesson on unprocessed trauma and lashing at due to the pain caused to yourself.

Kenneth Elder

2025-02-04 20:00:40 +0000 UTC

Well said. I still disagree with Picard

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-02-04 19:55:35 +0000 UTC

This is probably the fan favorite episode that I enjoy the least. I just don't care for the Borg at all outside of their first appearance. I also don't buy into Picard's BS reasoning for not taking a chance to exterminate the Borg. The Borg are an existential threat to the entire galaxy and you don't take the chance to get rid of them? I think at some point the ends do justify the means. There's a great episode in a later series that handles this sort of issue in a more believable way. I guess Picard saw the Federation's plot armor and realized he didn't need to do anything.

Spencer Loften

2025-02-04 19:54:49 +0000 UTC

Great story! In my humble opinion, this is the last great Borg story. The recoverability of Hugh's individuality raises interesting questions about the morality of destroying the Borg. Personally, I disagree with Picard's choice, he should have pulled the trigger. But I see how he got to the choice he did make. S-tier

Alexander McKechnie

2025-02-04 19:54:23 +0000 UTC

For my money, this is the best Geordi episode. Picard coming back from his brief assimilation was largely implied to be a fluke or miracle. Hugh showed us that underneath every drone there is a person, suppressed and deprived of free will. Hugh's defiance of "Locutus" was a powerful scene, and the fact that his individuality was strong enough to convince Picard and Guinan of all people that he's more than an automaton makes Hugh a very memorable character.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-02-04 19:53:27 +0000 UTC

Exactly. It's not that some good can't come out of The Borg, but it can't be considered to outweigh the bad.

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:53:16 +0000 UTC

Why aren't you a fan?

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:52:40 +0000 UTC

Because all Borg ARE evil—the idea of the Borg is the antithesis of human culture. If the Borg were fine to leave everyone else alone that would be one thing, but they're NOT. They are a cancer on the cosmos.

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:51:47 +0000 UTC

*was a person

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:50:33 +0000 UTC

Picard was not wrong. The Borg are THE FUCKING BORG!

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:50:01 +0000 UTC

I love how this episode showed some of Guinan‘s flaws without it feeling out of character and also gave her some some character growth

NX-01

2025-02-04 19:49:33 +0000 UTC

I knew from the start it was Picard's way of asserting control over the situation, but it was still creepy.

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:48:51 +0000 UTC

Riker.

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:47:39 +0000 UTC

You're in for some disappointment, then. 🙇

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:47:14 +0000 UTC

I really like Jonathan Del Arco in this.

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:46:30 +0000 UTC

“IT'S NOT A PERSON, DAMMIT—IT'S A BORG!!!” Words they should have lived by.

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:45:59 +0000 UTC

I neither like nor hate this episode, but its biggest concern to me is the humanizing of the Borg. It sets a terrible precedent for future episodes!

Jovet

2025-02-04 19:44:24 +0000 UTC

As the captain of the federation flagship, defending the federation should be a paramount concern.

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-02-04 19:39:18 +0000 UTC

It’s still a good episode

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-02-04 19:36:57 +0000 UTC

To me, he’s the best because he wouldn’t do it. “How we win matters.”

Pokeysaurus

2025-02-04 19:34:05 +0000 UTC

Goddamn it Picard, you should have done it. From this point on I can never support Picard as the best captain in all of Star Trek. Putting an end to the suffering of countless worlds at the hands of the Borg is an easy decision and I cannot believe that Picard would not make it. S

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-02-04 19:31:12 +0000 UTC

This is a D for me, one of my least favorite episodes. It's just not acceptable that a chance to defeat a genocidal enemy is so rejected. This story morally elevates Picard and his crew far past believability. Fight me, I'm right.

Michael Metrick

2025-02-04 19:19:01 +0000 UTC

Easy S for me. This is what I want Star Trek to be about.

Steven Linden

2025-02-04 19:11:31 +0000 UTC

Great performances. Great debate. A.

John M.

2025-02-04 19:08:14 +0000 UTC

I think this is a natural extension of the Borg story, dealing with themes of collective vs individuality. There’s power in language. The word “I” packs a punch, here. Also, Guinan has nice character growth here, while usually she’s the one carrying the character growth of others.

Andrew F.

2025-02-04 19:06:35 +0000 UTC

Not a huge fan. I want the Borg to be badass not pussies

Prof Moff

2025-02-04 18:59:11 +0000 UTC

In Best of Both Worlds, Riker makes a tough call to sacrifice Picard to destroy just one Borg ship. In this episode, Picard chooses NOT to sacrifice one Borg to potentially destroy all Borg. Who do you think made the right decision?

Evan Guthrie

2025-02-04 18:54:12 +0000 UTC

Teetering between S and A for me. The Picard parts here is what push it to S for me - seeing how deep the hurt still is in him

Jeffrey

2025-02-04 18:53:03 +0000 UTC

Alex & Josh - if you were each in Picards chair, would you have let Hugh go, or given him the picture virus and (possibly) end the threat of the Borg forever..?

The Ninth Doctor

2025-02-04 18:44:20 +0000 UTC

Really interesting direction they went with the Borg here. On the one hand, it feels like it 'humanizes' them by introducing us to Hugh, yet at the same time it's actually doubling down on just how horrific the Borg really are because they've assimilated billions of people just like Hugh and robbed them of their individuality and freedom. I also like the ethical discussion of whether it's the right thing to do to try to commit genocide against the Borg. Considering who the Borg are and how powerful and dangerous they are, do you guys feel it would be justified to wipe them all out if the Federation were given that chance, or is it too unethical?

Forbidden Donut

2025-02-04 18:38:55 +0000 UTC

When this episode first aired, I thought the Ready Room scene between Picard and Hugh was absolutely chilling. It seemed, at first, that Hugh had somehow triggered Locutus within Picard, not that Picard was only testing him. I think it’s fair to say that the prejudice Kirk had against the Klingons is echoed by Picard against the Borg. Being assimilated with all individuality erased and then used to murder 11,000 Federation lives will do that to you. Even to someone as enlightened as Picard. Lots of moral conflicts in this one. S-Tier for me.

Raphael Gaytan

2025-02-04 18:36:13 +0000 UTC

S, for finally giving Picard an L moment and behavior, but also giving him the space to learn. It's episodes like this that make me love the show. Stewarts and Goldbergs preformances here shows they are not perfect paragons of morals, but people who still have room to grow.

Kenneth Elder

2025-02-04 18:35:47 +0000 UTC

At this point we're used to seeing Picard in various diplomatic crises, weighing the letter of the law against what he believes to be the spirit of his oath and duty. His feelings often show through in those situations, but they're not in conflict with his thoughts. It's a good move to see that formula tweaked here, with a very rational man trying to make a clear-headed decision amidst emotional turmoil. It's also a nice continuation of the character growth we saw in Families.

Pokeysaurus

2025-02-04 18:30:12 +0000 UTC

A from me, a different look at the Borg, and a recognition that behind each drone is a person. Looking forward to the discussion on this one.

Paul Rymer

2025-02-04 18:22:47 +0000 UTC

Hugh was one of the more interesting characters to show up. Interactions with picard and Guinan were ingaging. I give it an A.

Keith S

2025-02-04 18:21:56 +0000 UTC

Okay... this is generally considered a top-tier episode. But after your response to Trek 6, I wonder how it'll go. For me, I think it's a good look at how easy hurt based hatred is. Picard has trauma, so he sees all Borg as evil. And a connected, hive-minded Borg kinda is. But he then goes out of his way to avoid any chance that might remotely allow him to sympathize with Hugh. Fear allows you to Other people, to de-humanize them into monsters so it's easier to hurt them. And it can quite literally happen to anyone. Even Picard.

Nolan

2025-02-04 18:17:02 +0000 UTC

Ahhh…my namesake. Decent episode, solid A, I just couldn’t bring myself to give it an S grade. Maybe because I could bring myself to giving a shit about Hue. I would’ve killed him and saved the quadrant. I liked the episode’s name though.

startrekiborg

2025-02-04 18:16:34 +0000 UTC

The continuing quest to discover what oath Picard actually cares about, the one he took to always protect earth from its enemies certainly depends on whether he feels like it or not.

Alan Thompson

2025-02-04 18:14:38 +0000 UTC

It's in the murky grey muck of morality that Star Trek often finds it's best plots. It seems that both choices could be difficult to live with, do you think Picard made the right one? This episode is one of my favourites.

Wade MacKinnon

2025-02-04 18:10:26 +0000 UTC

I'm never a fan of Borg episodes, but this is pretty decent. B for Borg.

Paul Hess

2025-02-04 18:10:12 +0000 UTC

It's hard for me to agree with the crew on this one. Their failure to act basically leads to the continued murder and assimilation of billions of individuals...

ShazD

2025-02-04 18:06:54 +0000 UTC

Ahh The Borg. This is sort of a continuation to the Arc of Picard dealing with his trauma. He has all of the hallmarks of PTSD but in true form he is able to move past it (with some gentle nudges from Guinan). This episode to me shows just how amazing a leader Picard is. He goes from wanting to violently strike out in retribution, and basically commit genocide on the borg, to realizing that Hugh has in fact transcended and become a fully realized individual.

Matthew Ganz

2025-02-04 18:06:48 +0000 UTC

Do you think Hugh's newfound (and shortly lived) individuality will have any impact on the Borg in the future?

THE LORE!!!

2025-02-04 18:05:56 +0000 UTC

We know Picard always makes the moral choice (and is undefeated!) but do you guys think his experience with the Borg projected a desire to heal or redeem, or did his decision rest solely on the content of the episode? And would Picard have admitted if it did?

Ross Townsend

2025-02-04 18:04:48 +0000 UTC

Episodes like this are what Star Trek is all about imo

Darin Starr

2025-02-04 18:04:40 +0000 UTC

Love this episode - it’s been a while since we had some proper Guinan scenes, and the ready room scene is superb

Brian Dunleavy

2025-02-04 18:04:10 +0000 UTC

Picard's demeanor when Hugh is in the ready room and calls Picard Locutus, it gets me everytime. You can still see how scared Picard is from his time with the Borg, even after 2 years.

Gregory

2025-02-04 18:01:42 +0000 UTC

It's been a while since we saw the Borg, but here they are again! This one, though, is a sympathetic Borg who develops individuality. Will Picard come to regret not using Hugh as a weapon to destroy the Borg Collective? Time will tell. I love this episode. Season 5 already has more “Best of the Best” ranked episodes for me than any season so far, and here's another one.

KatWithAttitude

2025-02-04 18:00:52 +0000 UTC

PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E23

Comments

The Borg were scary and fantastic antagonists because they were inhuman, they were really different. Humanizing them ruins them. It's stupid and completely preposterous! BAD WRITING!!

I cannot hardly WAIT until we can talk about this in the future!

Out of character for everyone. The Borg. Picard. Guinan.

I know it's an unrealistic scenario but I'm trying to set up a morally unambiguous choice. Which doesn't exist in real life. "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." Isaac Asimov, Foundation

Wow, the responses to how people like or dislike this episode are all over the place! That goes to show when that happens, it's probably a great story that brings people to it from a wide variety of perspectives. Excellent writing and production values, Star Trek!

Borg are people, too. (Well, the were, anyway.)

Definitely an S. This touches on the effect of the Borg on Picard and Guinan. Great Geordie episode as well. Wow… when a Hugh used “I” instead of “we”. And that look to Geordie at the end. This is one of my favorite TNG episodes.

Another great ethical dilemma episode with some awesome character interactions, especially between Guinan and Picard.

I understand your point of view, but I would argue that’s when it’s most essential to stand with your ethics.

You can’t stand on ideals and principles when everyone is dead or assimilated

I’m with you, Pokeysaurus. Picard is the best captain because he isn’t a genocidal madman. How we win DOES matter. 👍

this episode is "erased from canon" from me. It makes no sense. The idea that having Hugh be assimilated would introduce "individuality" to the borg, the borg assimilate species all the time and arent affected by their individuality.

I like that Picard, the paradigm of ethics, is now consumed with revenge. It demonstrates that he's not completely healed from his Borg experience and might never be.

@Phil I agree, but the Federation has to be defended from more than just external threats. It also needs to be defended against its ideals being warped and discarded.

A definite fan favorite and one of mine.

Easy S great episode and the fencing scene is amazing

Another favorite of mine from this season. Definitely in the top 20 episodes of the whole series as well for me. Easily an 'S'.

It's all over the place. Lol

It would not have been good for his character but sparing us from future Borg stories would have been great, IMO.

Now I have to look for his comment…

The one episode where Guinan is learning a lesson. I really enjoy this episode. Every character has to overcome their past prejudices and biases when their roles are reversed facing a mortal enemy. All around great episode. A+ for me.

Credit where credit is due: this is the one way to bring the Borg back and have it not be silly. I would argue Picard's decision here isn't as hard as it could be because the Federation isn't on the verge of being conquered.

One change I would make is to keep Guinan on the opposing side of Hugh. From where she started it’s unrealistic to me how she changed her opinion so quickly and so drastically. Also, that would give Picard a little pressure on both sides.

I find Hugh is a juxtaposition to Data. A human modeled to be a machine, or vice versa?

The Borg do, truly, deserve it

When this was first shown, I didn't understand why Geordi chose the name "Hugh." Then we got to the scene where Hugh looks at Picard and says "I am Hugh" ("I am you") and I got it.

Point recognized. Counter-argument: intent is 9/10 of the law. Kirk didn't blow up Praxis, but doing nothing to help *intentionally,* in order to harm, is wrong.

Point of order: Kirk's was *let* them die. Picard's was MAKE them die! One is "I don't care what happens to them," and one is "I want this to happen to them."

The scenes between Guinan/Hugh and Picard/Hugh are the best parts. Watching the characters soften toward the Borg was interesting, given the history.

Kirk *&* Picard: "Let them die." With you guys doing the shows & movies chronologically, I never realized how close in time these brief villain moments for the captains were. Star Trek 6 was only a month or two removed from Picard trying to go nuclear.

I bet you never expected to feel genuine hopefulness and then sorrow for a Borg drone...

From Picard and Guinan character flip to Beverly crusher being the absolute heart of this episode and it’s sad ending, yeah, this is an S… for all the small things! Yeah Picard should have talked to Troi after he talked to Hugh, but that’s not enough to drop this to an A for me !

One of my personal top ten, so a S from me for that reason alone.

Well said!

After reading the comments, I think three things are clear: 1. A lot of people like this episode. 2. It's a great deal more controversial than I once thought. 3. Jovet REALLY doesn't like the Borg. I think someone he loved was assimilated. ;

Yea, that's why I'll leave it there. I didn’t cross that line. But, I'll delete it anyway.

Easy S tier for “son of a B this show is so good!” I never once thought I’d feel for a Borg before this episode, but to me Hugh is a little cybernetic treasure in Trek.

They're supposed to be one-dimensionally terrifying. Like the Daleks, or The Bugs/Mimics, or The Machines, or the Xenomorphs, or the Demogorgons.

She sure doesn't respect viruses, and those are considered alive. Same for certain bacteria. At least prions are not alive.

Part of me is disappointed they didn't give "Hugh" the visual logic poison just so we could find out if it would have actually worked.

@Nolan Human collectives, for lack of a better term, are not comparable to The Borg. No human-devised collective could completely rob a human being of his individuality. But The Borg can.

@Timothy Nikiforovs The drones are the collective. Think of the drones like cells in your body. They can't be separated so easily. Picard's recovery can be excused because his assimilation was brief and rather special considering the circumstances.

I know where you’re going - into spoiler territory

Good episode with a solid hook. I don't like them making Beverly the villain/devil's advocate. Usually she is all about respecting life in all its forms.

Solid A episode, but not one of my favorites.

Read the book "11/22/63". What seems like the right thing may lead to a far worse outcome. We won WWII in part due to Hitler's incompetence. If you remove him, the person who takes his place might well be more skilled, and perhaps even more extreme.

I just don't see how any individuality survives being attached to the Borg collective. At time of assimilation or after.

The flip side of the Prime Directive. The Borg are clearly a living, growing civilization with a unique culture. Picard really stays true to his absolute devotion to the Prime Directive (on a macro level).

You forcefully impacted all of the nails into the cranial unit of this episode. 🎖️

Let them die!!

If you could go back in time and kill Hitler's mother would you do it? I would because I'm not going to let my personal sense of morals stop me from doing the right thing.

LOL I find the acting to be a bit robotic. I was probably too harsh for instance i loved BOBW Parts 1 & 3 (Family), but mostly for the human drama that it brought forth.

I'd guess he was never able to adapt to the concept of techno space zombies. Just not the kind of storytelling he can easily assimilate.

But the borg aren't individuals. The collective is evil, but the drones have no say. Picard would never have done what they made him do, and with a little time to remember what it is to be an individual, Hugh refuses to go along with it either.

good question

Certainly from a strategic standpoint, he absolutely should have done it. But of course taking a step back, Star Trek is all about these kinds of moral dilemmas, and if they did in the borg here, we'd never get any further stories with them, which is a good or bad thing depending who you ask.

Way to escalate! The show was teaching a lesson on unprocessed trauma and lashing at due to the pain caused to yourself.

Well said. I still disagree with Picard

Exactly. It's not that some good can't come out of The Borg, but it can't be considered to outweigh the bad.

Why aren't you a fan?

Because all Borg ARE evil—the idea of the Borg is the antithesis of human culture. If the Borg were fine to leave everyone else alone that would be one thing, but they're NOT. They are a cancer on the cosmos.

*was a person

Picard was not wrong. The Borg are THE FUCKING BORG!

I love how this episode showed some of Guinan‘s flaws without it feeling out of character and also gave her some some character growth

I knew from the start it was Picard's way of asserting control over the situation, but it was still creepy.

Riker.

You're in for some disappointment, then. 🙇

I really like Jonathan Del Arco in this.

“IT'S NOT A PERSON, DAMMIT—IT'S A BORG!!!” Words they should have lived by.

I neither like nor hate this episode, but its biggest concern to me is the humanizing of the Borg. It sets a terrible precedent for future episodes!

As the captain of the federation flagship, defending the federation should be a paramount concern.

It’s still a good episode

To me, he’s the best *because* he wouldn’t do it. “How we win matters.”

Goddamn it Picard, you should have done it. From this point on I can never support Picard as the best captain in all of Star Trek. Putting an end to the suffering of countless worlds at the hands of the Borg is an easy decision and I cannot believe that Picard would not make it. S

This is a D for me, one of my least favorite episodes. It's just not acceptable that a chance to defeat a genocidal enemy is so rejected. This story morally elevates Picard and his crew far past believability. Fight me, I'm right.

Easy S for me. This is what I want Star Trek to be about.

Great performances. Great debate. A.

I think this is a natural extension of the Borg story, dealing with themes of collective vs individuality. There’s power in language. The word “I” packs a punch, here. Also, Guinan has nice character growth here, while usually she’s the one carrying the character growth of others.

Point recognized. Counter-argument: intent is 9/10 of the law. Kirk didn't blow up Praxis, but doing nothing to help intentionally, in order to harm, is wrong.

Point of order: Kirk's was let them die. Picard's was MAKE them die! One is "I don't care what happens to them," and one is "I want this to happen to them."

Kirk & Picard: "Let them die." With you guys doing the shows & movies chronologically, I never realized how close in time these brief villain moments for the captains were. Star Trek 6 was only a month or two removed from Picard trying to go nuclear.

To me, he’s the best because he wouldn’t do it. “How we win matters.”