PATRON TIER LIST S5E17
Added 2025-01-21 00:21:08 +0000 UTCWhat tier do you rate Star Trek TNG S5E17?
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Comments
Star Trek was woke before woke was woke.
Sherpa Jones
2025-03-01 04:44:59 +0000 UTCSame. Ever since Josh and Alex first pointed it out I’ve kept my eyes open for it and it’s there! I don’t think I would’ve noticed if I did my own personal rewatch because it’s very subtle.
Shanelle
2025-02-06 22:03:09 +0000 UTCI’m a straight male who has slept with many many hot alien women all across the galaxy, and I think she’s adorable! 🤷🏼♂️
Benjamin Azure
2025-02-05 05:18:46 +0000 UTCI find the guest star’s performance beautifully understated and haunting. Her speech at her trial affects me every time. I’m sure some believe her speech is preachy, but I think the ideas she’s expressing are said exceptionally well, and (clearly) plenty of people in 2025 still need to hear it.
Benjamin Azure
2025-01-28 20:33:35 +0000 UTCThey explain that their race used to have two genders but evolved, and now gender is looked down as primitive.
Benjamin Azure
2025-01-28 20:26:08 +0000 UTCAs a kid a missed the gay rights subtext and as a adult I find it too preachy. That's arguably more about how the world has changed than the fault of the episode, but it never hits the sweet spot of being a compelling story even if you don't focus on the message. Not bad, but also not great.
Cirk Bejnar
2025-01-26 01:30:37 +0000 UTCRiker would bang a Tholian if he had the chance.
Mr Moxie
2025-01-24 05:29:19 +0000 UTCRiker is a horndog. He'd hook up with the warp core if he thought it was dropping hints. So I totally believe he'd pursue Soren. But to be deeply in love with them? Yeah that part is harder to believe.
Mr Moxie
2025-01-24 05:26:20 +0000 UTCB. I'm not really a fan of Horndog Riker plotlines, but this is an interesting episode which prompts interesting discussions without giving easy answers. That said, it feels like it could have done a bit more with its premise if it wanted to. Also, I noticed a small technical flub on this viewing. At around 35 min in, Riker goes to the trail room on the Jenoy homeworld, but you still hear the Enterprise humming noise in the background, whoops.
Mr Moxie
2025-01-24 05:18:58 +0000 UTCMeh, kinda preachy for me. Plot-wise, not a good use case for testing the limits of the prime directive. If you like the politics of this episode, then you'll like it. Otherwise not much here. Paper-thin plot. I think The Host did a better job of the "message" if you are looking for that, but like I said, the rest is bland. D for don't care.
Chris Mickelson
2025-01-24 01:48:39 +0000 UTCThis.
Crankygrandma
2025-01-23 22:53:03 +0000 UTCGosh that is tragic. So sorry.
Crankygrandma
2025-01-23 22:52:07 +0000 UTCI don’t think people missed the point. I think many feel the show didn’t do it well.
Crankygrandma
2025-01-23 22:49:17 +0000 UTCRather cringe and not believable. It Could have been more, or could have been done way better. I didn’t buy Riker falling for the alien and I sure didn’t buy what he did to rescue them, or believe Picard would look the other way. The writers were trying hard to make a statement and the story suffered. When Trek puts the story and characters first, it can really make us think. But this didn’t do that. I did like the twist at the end, and there were a few good lines, but this is a C or D for me.
Crankygrandma
2025-01-23 22:34:59 +0000 UTCLow B / High C. it deals with the question of nature or choice, and the states right to override the choices of the individual, 30 years later society still at odds on this one.
ByRikersBeard
2025-01-23 18:51:31 +0000 UTCEh, 'C'. I have nothing against the episode and can respect the idea it's trying to show. But the dialogue is so tedious and cringe.
Boggle
2025-01-23 16:31:04 +0000 UTCSome critical of this one have said they wished Riker's explaining of the sexes and their relationships would have included some mention of homosexuality. I can assume the producers were too worried about that, but a brief vague mention of it may have gotten by.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:55:18 +0000 UTCBut this one wasn't about gay "representation", it was commenting on the persecution of those people. The funny thing is, the episode would have become extra controversial back then if they did just show a gay couple.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:51:18 +0000 UTCI feel that it even makes more sense as a transgender storyline now, even if that wasn't their intention.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:47:07 +0000 UTCThey are supposed to be a alien race with no gender , and it doesn't work story wise , where did they get the idea of male and female ?they have there own reproduction that have nothing to do with the human way . So I don't like it because the alien race is to be completely different to us but yet they know all about the human race and how we reproduce, it doesn't make sense in science fiction.
John graziano
2025-01-23 03:45:36 +0000 UTCI admire Frakes for being willing to do the episode with a male actor, but I agree it would be a real big stretch for the audience to buy that from Riker, especially after watching him be such a ladies' man. Granted, the character would still be identifying as female, but it wouldn't have felt right.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:45:33 +0000 UTCThat makes two episodes in a row displaying Riker and Worf's friendship. I must admit I noticed their relationship much less than I did Data and Geordi's when I first watched the series. This rewatch has made me notice it more.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:42:45 +0000 UTCAs a member of LGBT this episode has always been special to me but, what was groundbreaking representation in the 90's, is very lacking in 2025. It is still A for me but that may be the rose tint. I feel like if Soren was played by an androgynous male actor and the scandal was about Soren showing attraction to non-single gender species rather than Soren turning female; it would be more timeless. Rick Berman was notoriously anti-gay so that would never fly unfortunately.
Dantenb
2025-01-23 01:27:48 +0000 UTCThis episode isn't about that concept of fluidity. Instead of taking heterosexuality as normal and making homosexuals outcasts, they flipped it so that homosexuals are normal and heterosexuality is the outcast. This is a political-societal episode, and the so-called "trans" movement was not a political thing in 1992.
Jovet
2025-01-22 11:23:57 +0000 UTCIt’s not homosexuality it’s genderfluidity
Phil Ken Sebben
2025-01-22 07:35:48 +0000 UTCLevel 1 Rizz: Errrrrr? Level 2 Rizz: What do you want to know about them? Level 3 Rizz: I could just show them to you?
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:32:12 +0000 UTCHomosexuality was at the forefront of Western society in the 70s and 80s.
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:29:27 +0000 UTC"done better" = more preachier
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:28:51 +0000 UTCAs long as you're bipedal and female (or female-ish), you mean.
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:26:01 +0000 UTCThe core point is: Is Soren suffering? Does his mental illness demand a cure? That's what this episode should have focused on.
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:25:25 +0000 UTCNo. It sounds like you are propagating some sort of stigma against mental illness. That's not very tolerant.
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:23:43 +0000 UTCAh, yeah. Was a long shot, but peep the guy's channel name here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rzop1G1YBQ
tkitez (take it easy)
2025-01-22 05:09:47 +0000 UTCExcept it’s obvious that he was into Soren. So your theory is crap.
Column Meanie
2025-01-22 03:09:36 +0000 UTCDude seriously? Get tf out of here.
Column Meanie
2025-01-22 03:05:26 +0000 UTCmaybe these other commenters aren't lgbtq, or maybe they havent had their friends, family, and strangers suggest that they are mentally ill or broken somehow. Sure, as another commenter pointed out, conversion therapy doesn't 'work' in real life - but the point is that even if it did, it would be immoral. It hits close to home for me. A.
tanuki trouble
2025-01-22 01:54:11 +0000 UTCMe? No, sorry.
tyranusfan
2025-01-22 01:47:54 +0000 UTCSuper random, but I've been wondering since I noticed your name on some video...are you the guy who used to make the ST Mega Suites on youtube/ufplanets?
tkitez (take it easy)
2025-01-22 00:26:02 +0000 UTCWhy can't it be work with a fictional species? Why can't there be a fictional species that really is agender, where feelings of gender is legitimately a correctable error they legitimately are thankful for after undergoing it?
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-01-21 23:50:58 +0000 UTCI don't think it's a stretch that he'd entertain this alien. Sure, she might not be conventionally attractive but let's not forget Riker's motivation for serving on a Klingon ship - "It's never been done before". The man is adventurous. But the idea that he'd love her/it enough to risk his career and be torn up about it on the inside at the end of the episode? That's the stretch for me.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-01-21 23:46:11 +0000 UTCNot a perfect episode but a lot to like here. I appreciate the writers were brave enough to shock us with the ending.
Kyle Stewart
2025-01-21 22:42:06 +0000 UTCI mean, obviously they would have rewritten the details a bit to fit the particulars.
Jack Molitor
2025-01-21 22:38:26 +0000 UTCKudos to Riker for not being so predictably one-dimensional and for not boning a flashy guest star of the week.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2025-01-21 21:49:59 +0000 UTCSuch a tragedy that, unfortunately, happened to many others too.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2025-01-21 21:45:51 +0000 UTCVery interesting story. Thanks for sharing.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2025-01-21 21:40:58 +0000 UTCThis is not "woke garbage" but it is sickeningly preachy.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:27:44 +0000 UTC@GreenCauldron08 It's more about the definition of "ill" and "suffering" You wouldn't think twice about a person who has a compulsion to murder people getting a "cure" like this.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:25:41 +0000 UTCVery funny
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:22:39 +0000 UTCIt would not make sense for a being of a sexless race to have female tendencies and then be cast by a male actor.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:19:18 +0000 UTCSo this episode is not preachy for you...?
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:18:33 +0000 UTCMental illness is mental illness.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:16:19 +0000 UTC@Phillip Grischa I like the "reversism" aspect. That's the only part I do like.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:15:07 +0000 UTCBecause there isn't any. And there is no way Riker, as a character, would go for someone like Soren.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:11:00 +0000 UTCBut does he? Consider Riker's past flings. This one does not fit, at all.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:08:10 +0000 UTCI thought the guest actor was fine. I just didn't find it believable AT ALL that Riker would end up being physically attracted to him.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:07:04 +0000 UTCThis story had a lot of potential and was quite ground-breaking for 1992 and Star Trek in general, but it failed to deliver on that potential.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-21 21:05:54 +0000 UTCGoing to be lots of "I give them credit" responses to this one. I'll only give them credit for a rather ingenious and unique spin on a view of homosexuality. But this being one of the more-preachy episodes really turns me off. I also find it too much of a stretch for Riker's personality to fall for this .... alien. Attraction of brains aside, we know Riker goes for attractive ladies, and that is not an attractive woman. It's completely preposterous to me that Riker's lust would rear its head here. At all.
Jovet
2025-01-21 21:04:58 +0000 UTCI respectfully disagree. Normally I'm all for digging into "in-universe" justifications and explanations like you propose, but this episode is a bold, if pretty hackneyed, metaphor for a modern human issue--gay rights (which can be expanded more broadly today). The conversion therapy at the end has to be read as such given that context. This isn't really about the nongender aliens Riker met one day, this is about the queer kid you knew at school or your weird cousin. This is one of those episodes where the metaphor is the only point.
Alexander McKechnie
2025-01-21 21:00:42 +0000 UTCI like how Worf, without hesitation, supports Riker... If Riker has a "best" friend (he has a lot of friends), is Worf it?
Stevtrek
2025-01-21 19:38:06 +0000 UTCI'll give them credit for addressing what at the time had been a controversial refusal to address LGBT issues, but ultimately the execution was really fumbled. A case where the guest actor was just not a good enough actor for the material, and I agree with Frakes that the episode would have been a lot stronger if the non-gendered character had been played by a man.
Ian Westcott
2025-01-21 19:35:19 +0000 UTCWell, they're not using Earth "conversion therapy," who knows what this space treatment actually involves. It could feature some sort of brainwashing, mind-altering, etcetc that would be actually effective, at least in the short term. It's one of those episodes that really REQUIRES analysis of the long-term consequences that we never get.
Ian Westcott
2025-01-21 19:34:43 +0000 UTC"waaaaaa why is life so confusing I have to hate on the opinion of people that don't live in their mother's basement" Sorry dude, I was alive before pronouns made men into women.
Jeff Lawson
2025-01-21 18:06:48 +0000 UTC“ARRRRGGGHHH! Why is Star Trek challenging me to think outside my tiny little box!!?? Angry sounds!!!!”
Jack Molitor
2025-01-21 17:03:46 +0000 UTCI have a hard time ranking this episode. I love this episode but I don't watch it very often. I jokingly tell people I'm so "screwed up" because I watched Star Trek as a kid. Therefore I'm big on "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" and believe in equality and equity for everyone and I think this episode is one of the biggest reasons for that. Why should someone not be loved or accepted for who they are because they don't fit societal norms? We're all different, all screwed up in our own ways. I love all the scenes with Soren and Riker talking, Soren and Beverly taking, and the poker game. I love how Worf went from "women are weak" to "let me help you save Soren".
Gregory Foster
2025-01-21 17:00:12 +0000 UTCAnother "Riker gets horny" story. The allegories and such are still relevant but also really ham-handed and generalized. I don't think the message will be lost on you guys, and I don't know how you'll feel about the second "morality play" in a row. I know that after the previous episode doing a really good job with it, and this one being heavy-handed and not as well written (with the usual cringe-worthiness of a Riker romance,) this juuuuuuust barely edges into C-territory.
John
2025-01-21 16:54:54 +0000 UTCThere's no indication the therapy is really a "success". For all we know it may have had caused neurological damage and might just be temporary?
ShazD
2025-01-21 16:42:56 +0000 UTCMaybe.
Raphael Gaytan
2025-01-21 16:40:38 +0000 UTCWhether or not this has aged poorly, I'll let others decide that. I appreciate what this episode tries to do. At the time it was a gay allegory but of course now it can also be read for its trans applications. This is the only episode of Star Trek that legitimately disturbed with the ending. As someone with a trans sister, having Soren be successfully converted is really upsetting to me. In that way, I kind of like that the ending is actually so dark.
Deep Red
2025-01-21 16:39:21 +0000 UTCSweet and short -} Boooooring
Dan Here
2025-01-21 14:18:34 +0000 UTCOne of the most Star Trek episodes !it’s sad and scary how relevant a 1990’s episode is in 2024. A, not S only cause I hate that the ending is too real 🥺
Sixto
2025-01-21 12:08:25 +0000 UTCI never liked this one. I generally don't like episodes where one of our crew falls madly in love with a guest star in an hour and this is the worst one. I don't feel any chemistry here. I don't buy that Riker would throw away his career after knowing this person as briefly as he does. Also it fails as a gay-rights analogy when it ends with Soren's conversion therapy apparently being a complete success. Conversion therapy is only ever harmful and never actually works and should have been portrayed that way. Not quite Erase-from-canon but, for me, it's close.
Alexander McKechnie
2025-01-21 11:40:56 +0000 UTCNotwithstanding the missed story opportunities I don’t recall much chemistry between Riker and Soren. Didn’t buy the romance at all
Jon1701
2025-01-21 11:10:36 +0000 UTCThis episode was a statement at the time. While I don't think it's anywhere near perfect, I give them credit for making the statement. The early 90s was an interesting time. Friends made an impact with having a character who barely was ever on screen be lesbian. Ellen recently came out and got canceled by a ton of people. We've come a long way since then ( though we still have some way to go yet)
Max Yoder
2025-01-21 11:04:34 +0000 UTCThe episode is designed to make you think about certain minority issues not state - this week’s episode is gay! How could they cast a man when Riker is obviously straight it would be totally ridiculous and make zero sense. This is why dreadful series like Discovery and SNW never worked! hitting you over the head with the message instead of following the example of the original series.
General Trelane
2025-01-21 10:49:38 +0000 UTCNo one's missing the point, we can all see the analogy. It's just that the analogy is stupid and offensive. Imagine if instead of having a black woman and an asian man on the bridge during TOS the entire crew had been white and their racial inclusion episode had been visiting a planet of prejudiced black and asian looking people suppressing white people. Do you think people of color would have appreciated that and said "What a great analogy, I feel so represented", of course not.
Phillip Grischa
2025-01-21 10:33:02 +0000 UTCD for Dull, a very rare grade for me. There's something about this episode that just detaches my interest to the point I find it irritating. It's a subject that has been explored much more effectively in other places, and perhaps the show's desire to avoid offending people crept too deep into the production process to the point that not even Riker's Rizz can redeem it for me.
Gruzz
2025-01-21 10:32:58 +0000 UTCThe studio was not having it and so this episode is not top tier. The message gets muddled in politics and ends up being detrimental to their supposed messaging. B for me
Loki San
2025-01-21 09:36:09 +0000 UTCI think a lot of people missed the point with this one (including Frakes) Star Trek tells its story’s by analogy to reflect a modern day issue. If you make the soren character a man it’s no longer Star Trek, Great episode Roddenberry would have approved!
General Trelane
2025-01-21 09:28:37 +0000 UTCI don't agree that it was ahead of its time. From a 2025 perspective we could argue that the audience shouldn't assume Soren's gender because of her appearance but I seriously doubt that's what the writers back then were going for, they just fell into the trap of doing "reverse -ism" trying to be smart not realizing that what that does is showing victims of suppression as the perpetrators. In this case we have a bunch of genderless people actively erasing any hint of gender in their society.
Phillip Grischa
2025-01-21 09:04:17 +0000 UTCI hate this episode. I know they didn't mean to offend but it is really, really bad. After years of promising a "gay episode" what they come up with is an alien played by an attractive woman coming out as a straight woman and starting a relationship with Riker. Seriously? They tried to be clever with they allegories and having a genderless alien species that their "gay" episode ended up being about a straight couple. And then it ends with Soren getting conversion therapy. This is presented as bad but it still works. Not exactly a great message. It could have been so easy, just take a random episode, have a male guest character mention his husband instead of a wife and move on. Gay characters don't need to have their existence justified by the story, they can just be there and do the same mundane jobs as everybody else.
Phillip Grischa
2025-01-21 08:49:50 +0000 UTC"TREK HAS GONE WOKE!!!!!" apparently Franks wanted the main character to be played by a male actor. B Fair episode. Sad ending
Greg Quinn
2025-01-21 08:20:18 +0000 UTCI like this episode for its calm tones and for the premise. Seeing Will getting really into it and getting the talk with Diana is very heartwarming. Strong B
ComMix
2025-01-21 08:09:04 +0000 UTCB for Banging Riker, once again. Ahead of its time at the time, but seen by many as not going far enough. Proving even today that, you can't please everyone when it comes to opinions on gender.
The Ninth Doctor
2025-01-21 06:40:44 +0000 UTCActually, I thought this resolution had that unique Star Trek ambiguity. Sure, the reassignment procedure works, but it's turning someone into a different person against their will, which doesn't feel right. On the other hand, if their new self has no problem with what happened, is it really a problem at all? You decide!
GreenCauldron08
2025-01-21 04:57:32 +0000 UTCThis episode was considered a poor attempt at commentary on Gay rights at the time, and is now hailed as a forward thinking examination of gender issues. Either way, it's an interesting piece for Will Riker who's otherwise been relegated to back-up Captain for too long. It shows he's not just a vapid horn-dog but does actually care deeply for his partners. C
Nolan
2025-01-21 04:49:42 +0000 UTCThanks a lot for sharing that story! Is your last name is a coincidence too?
GreenCauldron08
2025-01-21 04:41:49 +0000 UTCAn episode that was very much ahead of its time. At the time it was seen as very much a parallel for the experiences of gays and lesbians. However it is much more relevant to the present experiences of transgendered people. The most haunting aspect is that there are people, even in the Trek audiences, who would side with the forced therapy for “sick people”. A for “ass-kickin Riker and Worf”
Column Meanie
2025-01-21 04:24:26 +0000 UTCHuge swing and a miss. Nothing happens in this episode. Riker is completely out of character. If they made this a Geordi episode, it might have worked. People like to bring this up as an LGBTQ+ episode, but if anything, it's completely opposite. Soren ends up "normal" again after conversion camp, pretty much going along with "have you you tried NOT being gendered?" (and only after a few days at most.)
Nerd's Gold
2025-01-21 04:13:29 +0000 UTCYou also forget "aside" meaning it's not something I want to get into because of people like you Mr. Entirely Different Yet Intolerant Unless I agree with You.
Jeff Lawson
2025-01-21 04:01:52 +0000 UTCPolitical crap = bunch of self righteous assholes who don't shut up when no one wants to hear it.
Jeff Lawson
2025-01-21 03:59:01 +0000 UTCB tier: they tried to throw the gay community a bone (pun intended) but they didn't exactly swing for the fences here. Even Frakes called them cowards for not casting a man in the Soren role.
tkitez (take it easy)
2025-01-21 03:51:50 +0000 UTCInteresting how the social issues addressed in this episode have become more and more relevant since it first aired. Too bad it's so awkwardly done. D-tier!
GreenCauldron08
2025-01-21 03:49:45 +0000 UTCThis episode was written in response to calls for gay representation in Star Trek. Unsurprisingly it wasn't well received. The J'naii are genderless, or you might say monogendered, so by our understanding all their relationships are homosexual, yet they're presented as a very regressive society looking to prevent Soren from living as a woman and pursuing a heterosexual relationship. Not exactly the representation people asked for.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-01-21 03:37:52 +0000 UTCAnother Star Trek episode that ended up foreshadowing our own social issues before anyone had the language to talk about it.
Aramis Calcutt
2025-01-21 03:16:16 +0000 UTCJust proof that Riker isn't prejudice... he'll screw you no matter what you are! lol
The Travelers Travels
2025-01-21 02:53:34 +0000 UTCI think this has a lower quality in the episode due to acting of the peripheral characters, including the primary character that Ryker is supposedly in love with so emphatically the story is executed generally as poor as I’ve seen Star Trek execute a sensitive talk. It’s almost as bad as coat of silence and it’s bumbling nature, but it’s still entertaining because it’s Star Trek and it was fun to watch the really uptight squirm and struggle and lose their mind.
Thicketdweller
2025-01-21 02:46:53 +0000 UTCI was in college when this episode came out, and I watched a bunch of people who hadn’t found the vocabulary for the word woke jump out and start shouting about how Star Trek was bad! at this point and it was due to this episode and their reactions to whatever they perceived this relationship between Ryker and/a gender neutral androgynous character of a fictional TV show affected their small minds
Thicketdweller
2025-01-21 02:44:51 +0000 UTCPeople makes this out to be more 'political' than it is. If it was, it wouldn't allow you to make a solid case for both sides. Gender isn't so simple, but the treatment really did work and there was a 'natural' state (at least with this species). SciFi is at it's best when it raises an interesting question, but doesn't nudge the scales or advocate.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-01-21 02:43:55 +0000 UTCFrakes said that he actually wanted the actor playing Soren to be a man, thereby hammering the message about LGBTQ rights and visibility home further. Studio said no. Common Frakes W.
Jack Molitor
2025-01-21 02:38:16 +0000 UTCI love the idea of the episode. And that it has just gotten more relevant. But it’s too heavy handed, Riker and Worf go beyond what is acceptable, and the ending ruins the episode for me
Jeffrey
2025-01-21 02:37:12 +0000 UTC“Political crap” = the existence of people who are different than me Do you even listen to the words they say on Star Trek, or is it all just pew-pew explosions for you?
Jack Molitor
2025-01-21 02:33:54 +0000 UTCI love this episode. A moral dilemma, worf being a bro to riker after their ordeal in Ethics, great speeches, and a rare super downer of an ending. The anti-conversion message is pretty clear at the end too. I know certain people don't like the message here but it's nuts to me that people will watch episodes like this one and not think Trek has always had a progressive slant in its messaging.
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-01-21 02:21:13 +0000 UTCStar Trek again tries to tackle a tense social issue. This episode probably has more relevance today than it did when it first aired. A nice attempt but still too predictable and by-the-numbers. I agree with others who see it as okay good moments.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-21 02:18:04 +0000 UTCTo be fair, everyone on this show falls in love in a day whenever they get a romantic interest
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-01-21 02:17:35 +0000 UTCRiker dose to loose his cool a bit to much in this episode. The psychotetrctic treatments seem really scary. Too many people in the real world would love to use that. B teir.
Keith S
2025-01-21 02:08:44 +0000 UTCSo…in August 1991 (about seven months before “The Outcast” aired), I wrote and submitted a TNG spec script entitled “Nature’s Way” to Eric Stillwell, who was in charge of Star Trek submissions at Paramount. The Enterprise travels to a world where the battle of the sexes escalated into the separation of males from females, with both genders occupying differing hemispheres. The result was a homosexual society, with procreation done through insemination. Picard and the crew take aboard delegates from both sides and Riker falls in love with the female consort of the woman in charge, who in turn falls in love with him. This, of course, leads to controversy among the delegation and Picard being placed in the awkward position of adhering to the Prime Directive while supporting his First Officer within the bounds of protocol. Much of the sequence of scenes and dialogue in the aired episode are similar to what I had written…although I had not included a sci-fi B-plot, as I felt the drama of the piece was enough to sustain an hour episode. And, of course, the aired episode deals with an androgynous race and the idea of “conversion therapy”. I have always held a special place in my heart for “The Outcast”. It may just be an amazing coincidence that many of the details and situations from my submission are the same, even if the over-arching concepts differ. I have not shared this experience with anyone outside my close circle of friends and family. But watching the episode again recently made me want to share this with the community here. My thanks to everyone who read to the end!
Raphael Gaytan
2025-01-21 02:03:01 +0000 UTCThis episode has aged remarkably well and found new relevancy now that the writers hadn’t necessarily intended back then.
ScarlettMi
2025-01-21 02:01:16 +0000 UTCYeah Riker being in love that quick is a bit hard to swallow, even though I like and appreciate this episode overall
Forbidden Donut
2025-01-21 01:28:58 +0000 UTCSorry to hear that
Forbidden Donut
2025-01-21 01:28:13 +0000 UTCI think the episode does a pretty good job (particularly for its time) of addressing the issue of being 'different' or 'deviant' in a society that doesn't tolerate you. Back then, I think that made this be seen as a 'gay episode', now I think people may see it as more of a 'trans episode'. Without being too personal, I will just say that I think a lot of people who are 'different' can relate to Soren and this story, even beyond those who are specifically gay or trans.
Forbidden Donut
2025-01-21 01:27:13 +0000 UTCFairly forgettable outing.
tyranusfan
2025-01-21 01:27:09 +0000 UTCFound this boring as a kid, but it’s aged well. I find the big speech stirring now. Riker falling in love so fast is very TOS. B.
John M.
2025-01-21 01:15:43 +0000 UTCSoren:”Commander, tell me about your sexual organs.” Riker: 😃
Connor Fallon
2025-01-21 01:12:35 +0000 UTCI hate this episode. I've watched this series hundreds of times and I'd rather watch Code Of Honor. This is beyond E tier for me. Political crap aside... How freaking desperate can they make Riker?? Between Troi, fake holodeck women, and a species that isn't even male or female...dude has got problems. This episode is truely Shaka When the Walls Fell.
Jeff Lawson
2025-01-21 01:12:24 +0000 UTCI remember when this first aired, this episode was treated like TOS’s “Let that be your last battlefield,” in that it was a little *too~* super obvious on the social commentary. Later it seemed to age better as society grew. But I think while this episode had some potential, it fell flat on its resolution, which imo does not age well. The fact that the “reassignment” procedure at the end worked in the episode defeats the message it was trying to convey. Still, I think Star Trek is at its best when it asks the hard questions but leaving the answers to the viewer to decide or ponder over. C-B for me.
Nathan Walker
2025-01-21 01:07:38 +0000 UTCThis is just a C tier episode for me, mainly because this story has now been done so much better in other sci-fi shows (The Orville for example). Sure, this episode is better now than when it was released, but it doesn't save this episode from being a slow, boring episode with very little reason to rewatch it.
Robert Kozelou
2025-01-21 01:04:52 +0000 UTCRiker follows his balls and seeks to add to his impressive resume. Worf risks violating the Prime Directive in an excuse to help his friend by beating up aliens. Picard remains nonchalant about the whole thing.
Worf and Riker Ride Again
2025-01-21 01:01:30 +0000 UTCTopical given the current US administration’s views on gender. More evidence that Riker really isn’t that choosy.
Paul Rymer
2025-01-21 00:41:42 +0000 UTCI worked with a friendly, openly gay man in the early 00s that was deeply religious. Think Flanders level of religious. At one point, he told us that he was "done sinning" and that he was going to "homosexual therapy." His elderly parents spent untold amounts of their life savings sending him to total quacks to "cure" him. He ended up taking his own life shortly after they deemed him of being cured. I can't watch this episode without thinking of that guy. . Sorry to be a downer if this gets read, I've never really been able to share that story any other way.
THE LORE!!!
2025-01-21 00:40:44 +0000 UTCI could never tell if this one was extremely ahead of its time or just oddly predicted the future but yeah TNG raises an issue 20 years before it becomes at the forefront of society. Regardless, it is a compelling episode that gets a solid A
Phil Ken Sebben
2025-01-21 00:40:34 +0000 UTCThis episode was panned for years as a ham-handed way to address homosexuality and how the gay community was treated in early-90s American society. Years later, it has found a new and more favorable life as a trans allegory. Regardless, it has a strong message of "the desire to be oneself" and is a memorable episode. A-tier for me.
Jesse Manning
2025-01-21 00:35:04 +0000 UTCOn the surface this appears to be WOKE GARBAGE, but if you think about it, this society forcefully suppresses gender. That would make this episode UNWOKE GARBAGE.
Evan Guthrie
2025-01-21 00:33:02 +0000 UTCAllegory Ahoy!
Thomas Cole
2025-01-21 00:32:21 +0000 UTCAnother “message” episode that probably has more meaning now than it did when it first aired. It is kind of funny when for once Riker gets somewhat embarrassed while talking about sexual matters, but again, not one of my favorites. Another one I rank as “Time Filler With Good Moments”.
KatWithAttitude
2025-01-21 00:28:58 +0000 UTC
