UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S3E13 - Deja Q

I just realized that one of my favorite things about Star Trek is characters that are outside of humanity trying to understand it, and other characters explaining things about humanity to those characters. I think this is because I'm autistic, and I try to understand humanity by describing it as I would to an outsider. Data and Q remind me of me and my husband who is also autistic. My husband would be Q. He's a lot more brash and doesn't understand the point of going along with social norms. I'm more like data. I've learned how to mimic enough to function with others, but I'll still always be an outsider and some stuff will never make sense to me.

BN13

The moon plot is pretty throw away. It kind of gets in the way of the episode. You end up feeling as much disdain for it as Q does because the concept of him losing his powers is far more interesting. I could watch a whole season of just Data being a guide to Q explaining basic mundane human stuff to him. The moon plot might have been more interesting if Qs knowledge actually had an impact on it, or the crew were actually receptive to Q and tried to use him, but as is, it just distracts from all the Q stuff which is the stuff that's actually interesting. I love the concept for this episode, but I wish they did more with it. It could have been better.

BN13

This was one of the first episodes I ever bought on VHS and know it really well but it’s not the best of s3. But I always find it fun. These days I think this would work better as a multi episode arc. Do find the discussion of throwaway plot odd. The plot is Q losing his powers which doesn’t feel throwaway.

Darren Seal

Ehh, we still have tin man, which is a snore.

Dabo Master

While Season 3 is deninately backlogged as a whole, a lot of the difference in top 5 or top 10 is just subjective preference. "The Defector" isn't in my season 3 top 10, but I would rate it an A-/B+ episode no better than "Booby Trap" or "The Hunted" that I enjoyed more than you did. It may well end up in your season end top 5, but there are at least a couple episodes I think you will love even more

Cirk Bejnar

"Au Contraire, Mon Capitan !" You gotta love Q with mariachi band in tow. I really enjoyed Q's gift of laughter to Data.

MrDeadstu

They get the orbital mechanics wrong here - Geordi talks about "trying again at perigee" but if the thing is spiraling elliptically into the planet and you're trying to have it not do that then you'd want to push it at apogee and not perigee.... so that you can lift the perigee.

Justin

The question is what is the plot of the episode. Some might think it's the daily task the Ship is dealing with. But in fact is that the plot of the episode. Or is the plot of the episode, the crew having to decide what to do when a powerless and defenseless Q arrives seeking sanctuary? Because thats the plot the Asteroid Moon is at best a B plot, versus the A plot. To use Q-Who (I really love that episode), the day to day event of the crew is stellar mapping, but is that its plot or is it just the window dressing of the story. Versus the plot, which is the crew having to deal with Q throwing them thousands of lightyears distance to an unknown enemy. Now in fairness, the current mission the ship is on does take up much more of the episode then many of other episodes that have the crew on a mission. But the main plot is Q struggle.

Mark Wood

Q was the A plot in this episode. All the other stuff is the B.

Jon1701

[*censored*]

Jovet

@Steven Johnson The execution seems fine to me. There's always room for improvement, of course. The people on the planet didn't bother me. I presume the ones we see don't live anywhere near the western continent, so they are not in *immediate* danger. The writer(s) didn't waste too much time lecturing the audience about the consequences of the moon striking the planet: floods, tsunami, ice age, massive loss of life. That species is also very much not human, so we don't know how they should be reacting to being in mortal peril. The Enterprise isn't equipped to evacuate people like that. The planetary distress call had already gone out, I'd presume—that's why the Enterprise is there. @Chris S. It's very true, that we were not particularly invested in these people. Some people will "auto-invest" just because they're people, others won't. To me, the "B" plot is just another day in the life of a starship. It doesn't seem like there was much time for the planet (or Starfleet) to react to the moon in the first place.

Jovet

@Timothy Nikiforovs Actually it's South Park you'd need to watch. There was an episode of South Park where they poked fun at The Simpsons for having done every plot imaginable because it had already been on the air for so long.

Jovet

@Philbot Geordi described the Enterprise pushing the moon as "like an ant pushing a tricycle."

Jovet

@Blaine I think you’re spot on

Josh (Target Audience)

Criticizing the execution and being met with defense of the concept happens so often that I have been forced to create this meme https://imgur.com/a/q1akjNh

Josh (Target Audience)

Digging the clean shaven look! Is there anything you can't pull off?

Captain Proton

Perhaps I didn’t state it properly. Its not that its a weak situation itself. Of course its a terrible thing the inhabitants were going through! I can’t put my finger on it I guess. Except for the viewscreen, there was no interaction between the inhabitants like say, in “The Hunted”, where they actually beam down to the planet. Maybe thats what it needed? Let me rephrase. It wasn’t the “situation”. It was the “execution”. Wait….I’m laying it bed right now and it just hit me lol…..We weren’t INVESTED in those people. The situation was dire, but you could have swapped out any race. We didn’t get to know them at all, so the stakes didn’t feel as high because we didn’t get to know or care about them. Who are they? Whats their culture like etc. maybe I should have articulated more.

Chris S.

Jovet, it's not the concept that's weak. It's the execution. People always do this when they want to defend a thing. Just because a concept is great, doesn't meant he execution is. The two people down on the planet are not acting like two people about to die. When the first attempt fails their tone is "awe, man!" That's primarily why its weak. I don't feel any sense of urgency. There should have been a scene where Worf starts picking up planetary distress calls, and its people begging for help from the surface... Just to up the ante.

Steven Johnson

Jovet, yes, I think that's quite likely.

Numinous2019

🎶A single man tear rolls down his face, a single man tear.🎶

Philbot

Was there a tricycle in this episode? Classical music is already like 300 years old it’s already withstood the test of time. Shakespeare is even older..

Philbot

Yeah, Geordi was great in that scene

Timothy Nikiforovs

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I guess I just love the stuff in engineering where Geordi’s a real boss. Star Trek eventually gets more running, shouting, pulling levers, and turning wheels (instead of technobabble and computers). Ron Moore perfected this in Battlestar Galactica…where we get cool sci-fi, but also people moving gigantic machines with brute force and will. More kinetic and relatable.

J-Ro

I don't mind the technobabble in general, I just think the calamarian and Bre'el plots felt very dry and utilitarian in this case. Like the science consultant cared more about them than the writers.

Timothy Nikiforovs

They relied too much on technobabble. Some love it, some hate it—but it’s always a part of Trek and isn’t going anywhere.

J-Ro

Philbot

I don’t think it’s so much that Q doesn’t know what Sleep is, it’s that he’s never actually experienced unconsciousness.

Philbot

Haven't watched Simpsons in decades. What did they do?

Timothy Nikiforovs

@Timothy Nikiforovs Simpsons did it.

Jovet

I think it's the tech-heavy crisis B-plot. It's not the strongest thing to balance good character work. I LOVE that stuff, but I get it's not for everyone. But Trek only leans-forward into tech moving forward (or, at least, the ships being even more of characters than they already are). I take this all as nostalgia and homage to naval history, but also realize that not everyone is here for that kind of stuff.

J-Ro

I noticed that too. The more I think about it, he's learning to imitate (very well) what an legitimate (but perhaps intentionally hidden) emotion looks like.

J-Ro

Hmmm. There's a challenge. How about we get rid of the calamarain altogether, there's nobody gunning for Q once he's mortal. But there is still a crisis. There's an ancient uncrewed warship that's crash landed on the surface of an inhabited planet. Maybe it could even tie back to Survivors and be a husnock warship devoid of life from when Kevin killed off the race. The problem is the ship's drive core was destabilized in the crash and is building to an overload that will cause a multi gigaton explosion that would render the planet uninhabitable. The ship has multiple automated defenses and the weapons target the Enterprise whenever they try to lock on a tractor beam, or it could be that the damage is such that attempting to move it would accelerate the overload. Either way, they can't tow it. There's also a ton of radiation so they can't beam in. They have to beam down outside the ship and try to get inside, but there are automated defenses that need to be disarmed first, and the away team can't get past them. Q is going through much the same journey of learning what it is to be human, the crew treating him with disdain. But eventually they learn that he has some knowledge of the husnock, their language and culture, which are needed to overcome certain security prompts. He can't just translate the controls for them, or explain the intricacies of how to overcome the security system before the core goes critical. He has to do it, and naturally he's reluctant to put himself in a position to be shot at by the security system now that he's mortal. During the first attempt, the plan is for the away team to distract the security system(could be flying bots similar to the echo papa drones) while Q reaches the console to disarm them, and after that they can access and shut down the core. But when the drones start shooting, despite the team creating multiple openings, Q freezes up and cowers behind a crate. As one of the drones moves to a position where it could hit Q, one of the team(could still be Data) jumps in to push him out of the way, and gets hit. Here we have a very similar scene in the ready room and sickbay of Q realizing how useless and cowardly he is as a mortal, paying his respects to Data for rescuing him before getting into a radiation suit and beaming down himself from an unguarded cargo bay. His "selfless act" seems to be risking being killed by the drones to disable the security system, but this is just the appetizer. He sprints into the ship, shoots down the 2 initial drones and rushes to the console to disable the security before more show up. One comes around the corner just before he finishes and he barely dodges the beam and shoots it before finishing the sequence and disabling the security system, and this is where his real selfless act comes in. At this point, there are only minutes before the core goes critical and he needs every second left to disable the core, and he looks down to realize his radiation suit was breached by the beam he barely dodged. He could run outside and call for transport, saving himself, but the planet would die. Instead he opts to finish what he started and disable the core. He succeeds, but he Daniel Jacksons himself in the process. By the time he beams up to the ship, there's nothing Crusher can do. As he's lying on his deathbed in sickbay, Data, Picard and even Worf visit to express their gratitude for his sacrifice, Worf even begrudgingly commenting that he has earned an "honorable death". After that they decide to let him rest. And then we have "Q2" voice out of nowhere saying "you just couldn't help yourself? You just had to go playing the hero(pops head out of sickbay wall next to Q) and make my life difficult in the process". A similar conversation ensues resulting in Q getting his powers back. On the bridge, the crew somewhat more solemnly discuss "the end of Q" expecting him to die during the night, only for the same mariachi band scene to play out, just with the crew significantly less perturbed to see him re-empowered. He still gives Data his moment of laughter, and he still saves a planet by the end of the episode, but not with a snap of a finger, but through his actions as a mortal. That's how I'd rewrite it.

Timothy Nikiforovs

@Menty I agree. And it was the perfect vehicle for them to distrust Q even more than usual!

Jovet

I thought the B plot was perfect for this one. The crew is on a high-stakes humanitarian mission. I struggle to think of what else it could be given what the A plot is and how Q ends up solving it as a going away gift.

Menty

I don't believe they're omnipotent either. They just play that on TV....

Jovet

I posit that Q would have had far more extreme reactions to being human than what was depicted here. Breathing, muscle fatigue, spit, hunger, thirst, waste, lust and sexual drive, even dry eyes... all would be new and possibly compoundly-overwhelming experiences for him.

Jovet

in the 3x25 reaction comments "Trust me guys, S3 really picks up in the back back back back half...quart....episode of the season"

Timothy Nikiforovs

How is the threat of societal destruction weak? If an asteroid like that hit this planet, we would be all but wiped out. Think "dinosaur extinction event."

Jovet

Well thanks! That makes more sense!

Jovet

Ahh, well that could be trickier. Obviously everyone's taste is subjective, so no matter which eps you like and dislike, almost everyone is going to disagree with at least SOME of your takes. But if your views were just coincidentally lined up with the general consensus, I think it would be hard to not think you were faking it. So the more dissenting takes still make it feel more authentic. That said, I'm not going to pretend it's not validating when the eps we like are hits for you guys as well

Timothy Nikiforovs

"An irony: it means you have achieved in disgrace what I have always aspired to be." In recent viewings of this I realized I had not noticed two things: Q's shocked-puzzled look he gives back Data, and when Data backs up to get out of Q's way and turn around, he has a "How about them apples, you like them apples? YOU OFFEND ME AND I HAVE NO EMOTIONS" strange look on his face.

Jovet

I think I like this one a little more than you guys, but not by a lot. It's good, and important to Q's story, but not amazing. Obviously Q's story IS the main story, and the whole thing with Bre'el and the Calamarain is just meant to push Q's story forward. The issue I think is those elements are treated in such a utilitarian way to move Q's story forward that they end up being as basic as white bread and mayonnaise. An entire episode about this moon and this cloud creature with no Q would be a snooze fest for sure. I do think this is an important step in Q's journey. He was introduced in Farpoint very much as an antagonist, but was in the background for much of the episode. Hide and Q kept him fairly antagonistic except toward Riker who had impressed him, and I think through that episode and Picard being able to reason Riker out of essentially godhood, showed Q that humanity was more than he suspected. In Q Who, he's developed a begrudging respect for Picard and humanity at large, but sees they're naïve to the dangers of the galaxy, and decides to "give then a kick in their complacency" to help them get ready. But Deja Q's story of him losing his powers and having to live as a mortal made him truly understand humanity and our motivations, and respect what we accomplish despite our frailties. How much of that he takes with him now that "heeee's baaaccckkk", time will tell. It's an evolution of the character nonetheless. Perhaps even Picard recognizes that by the end. This was by no means a Data episode, but he was quite strong here. I agree with the one patreon take that Data is always the one to give the benefit of the doubt to people like Jarok or Q that the rest of the crew has written off. Riker referring to Data as Pinocchio in Farpoint is very apt, as beyond his desire to be human, Data in many ways is like a child in the way he sees the world. Free of envy or prejudice, and constantly seeking to understand his place in it. Of course he has the strength of 10 men and a super computer for a brain, but still. I do love the scene where Q goes to speak to him in sickbay. Q may hate being human, but he has the decency to tell Data he's more human than he realizes. I also like that he didn't try to make Data human at the end, and by doing so rob him of his journey to get there himself, but rather just gave him a small preview of what he seeks to achieve. But yeah, solid episode with a lot of great humor in it, and John De Lancie gives a terrific performance as usual. But it never really blew me away as an episode either.

Timothy Nikiforovs

Because his kid brother is cute, and quieter. *ducks*

Jovet

I missed that too! *goes to rewatch for the 140th time*

Jovet

I think it will grow on them.

Jovet

Every word of her dialogue in this is profoundly great. And the visual composition of her standing over him from afar, "Oh, how the mighty have fallen," is swoon-worthy great.

Jovet

Q was the "A" plot in this. The asteroid and people who might be dying were "B".

Jovet

@Vina Yep, I was going to write that, too. It may be slightly-more tightly hugged by gravity, but it's also going the fastest.

Jovet

"Ten-Forward" is actually a poor line of dialogue for Worf. "Deck Ten, Section 1" would be more accurate.

Jovet

I suspect that some of us long-fan 'fondness' has been tainted by time. We have the entire series to look back on and pick out our fondest ones. The guys will be the same way when they're through it all, mark my words.

Jovet

You win the comments. If I have that power.

Jovet

I'm sure cigars would be known of, but I have my doubts about tricycles.

Jovet

I agree that Q knows humans sleep and eat, but doesn't recognize the signs. That experience of feeling tired or sleepy would be foreign to someone who never experienced it, same with eating. We know a stomach growl can mean hunger, he's never experienced a growling stomach.

A Surprisingly Moist Fart

That's a good point about the Tribble episode. That one and Deja Q are definitely two of those "for fun" episodes that serves as a sort of counterbalance to the more serious ones. There are almost surely more light hearted episodes to come in this and future series that I'll be interested to see how their viewpoint evolves on them, if they begin to embrace them or get more annoyed by them. I already fear they'll be miserable with a couple of my favorite episodes/shows.

Jeffrey P

Correct. It would alter its density but also the affect of the black hole or other object. But he's in a lot of pain at that moment and can't even remember that it's a moon, not an asteroid, so maybe he didn't mean "mass" either.

Jeffrey P

I was a little surprised you were ambivalent about this one. I love this episode. Yeah, it's another Q feature but it does is so well. Q and Data are just a perfect coupling. Q: Until next time. Ah, but... before I go, there's a debt I wish to repay, to my professor of the humanities. Data, I've decided to give you something very, very special. Lt. Cmdr. Data: If your intention is to make me human, Q... Q: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I would never curse you by making you human. Think of it... as a going-away present.

Menty

Loved your reaction when you saw Q! 😍🤩...and the face palm 😲🤩💜

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

I love the A-plot with Q, but I thought the B-plot was pretty weak. They could have come up with a more creative plot. Not sure what, but just a decaying orbit? Thats it? Yeah, pretty weak. Q and Data saved this episode. I give it a C+/B-. Decent, but not breaking any new ground. Here’s a creative question for my friends here: What plot would you have come up with or dilemma instead of the asteroid plot? Lets get creative!

Chris S.

Meh, season 3's ok. Season 4 is when the show REALLY gets good. :)

Moonlander

the word in the subtitles was "referent". Similar but not identical to reference https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/referent-vs-reference

Timothy Nikiforovs

Those goal posts are migrating like a bird in fall!

Evan Guthrie

51:50 Here's a good question I should have posed in the Patron takes: Were you ever worried they were gonna actually kill off Q?

Jovet

51:13 "How the mighty have fallen." That's one of the top moments in the show. All of Guinan's dialogue was superb, but that scene with her "over" him yet in the background with that semi-sideways glower was top-notch great!

Jovet

49:20 Q is NOT all-knowing (omniscient), despite what Q2 said. (I also still question their claim of omnipotence, too.) Q as a human may have an IQ of 2005, but that doesn't mean he automatically knows everything, either.

Jovet

48:10 Yes. And since Data can't forget, he'll always remember it.

Jovet

It’s a well written comedic episode and a character driven one

Scarpad’s Domain

36:10 Like, Vulcans!!

Jovet

23:10 I forgot how weirdly the computer says "reference" there. LOL ref-FER-rance. LOL

Jovet

15:50 Q is wrong. Changing the gravitational constant of the universe would not alter the mass of the asteroid. It would change its weight, though.

Jovet

People like to be validated. The conceit with reaction content is that the viewer feels like they're sharing something they enjoy with a couple of friends, and ideally their friends would enjoy the thing as much as the person sharing it or even more. So if you were genuinely agreeing with them, I do think they would like that more. But not at the risk of getting fake reactions.

Blaine Martin

4:50 Looking good clean-shaven, Alex! But I want to hear WHY you think Q is naked?? :D

Jovet

I was surprised that this got an ambivalent reaction from both of you. This is such a well-constructed episode with a fan favorite that I thought this would garner a stronger response. All good though; interesting to see how new fans react!

Menty

I've always worked to the assumption that elder persons who hold the rank of Ensign have probably worked their way up the "Crewman" track (Uniformed Personnel with no Rank Pips). Thus earning their Commission as Officers via service length and achievements, versus the Academy track based upon exams. ("Ordinary Crewman" was referenced in Q Who, when Picard asks Q what he would do on the ship.)

James Knight

This is roughly where the show becomes a freaking rocket, and just TAKES the F OFF.

Angelaina Marie

I'd say they're better at certain things, but Defector is my favourite because it does a lot of different things really well. But yeah, this episode is simply not as good as 3x10, and I never expected J&A would find it to be. I expect Defector will land somewhere in their top 3, but we'll see.

Timothy Nikiforovs

Thanks Timothy. My question was actually more if somehow we hypothetically genuinely agreed with the consensus in every reaction.

Josh (Target Audience)

We can love plot heavy episodes (Q Who, Peak Performance, Conspiracy) but the plot needs to be… interesting.

Josh (Target Audience)

Well said

Andrea R

Here's an easter egg for you. When the Calimaraine first appeared they probed the ship with "Berthold Rays". That is a call back to the TOS episode "This Side of Paradise". Berthold Rays are the harmful radiation that should have killed everyone on the colony but they were protected by the spores that made everybody chill and Spock happy "for the first time in his life".

StealthMomo

Q doesn't know everything, he is omnipotent (meaning all powerful, not al knowing), versus Omniscience (which is all knowing). Now he does have the power to know pretty much anything he wishes, but he needs to want to know that information. For example, in this episode he believed his fellow Q was his supporter, he wasn't. Thus an example of him not knowing everything. You can find examples through all his appearances that show he isn't all knowing. So unless he needed to know the details of daily existence of humans he wouldn't know it. So the writing is actually true to the nature of the character. Its interesting that you state your really drawn to the character pieces (at least Alex), less to more plot driven materials. Yet Q-Who a very heavy plot heavy episode, with just a nugget of character work in it (Picard needing to learn that he must ask for help, and that his resolve isn't equal to the threats awaiting), here we have the reverse where its character work (though not for a main character but a reoccurring one) that is forefront to the episode, will the plot is disposable. Though Q-Who is absolutely a superior episode. Now of course with much of the character growth also draped in humor I do understand people who don't respond specifically to the humor aspect as humor is so very subjective.

Mark Wood

I know a lot of people put this in their top 6 above The Defector because it's a fan favorite, but it's definitely not objectively better. It's fun and fine for what it is, and it's one of the better Q episodes, but it's not a masterpiece by any means. Now we do have at least 2 masterpieces that you have not seen coming up. THOSE are definitely better than The Defector. Everything else that can be in that top 6 of the season is highly subjective. I'm predicting that you'll like at least 3 episodes better than the Defector though based on your previous tastes.

BN13

He also had a memorable cameo on an episode of Seinfeld lol.

Trouty McTroutTrout

No, fake reactions are boring. Sure it can be disappointing when you're reaction to a fan favourite is muted, but at least it's another perspective. On the flip side the same applies when you like an episode or movie that's generally disliked. Sometimes I'll see something through your reaction I hadn't considered, sometimes I'll just disagree. Either way, it's more interesting than feigning agreement with the consensus.

Timothy Nikiforovs

I actually didn't quite count this as one of the six epic ones....I have it ranked at number 10 for season 3. But I still think I like it more than our hosts. 🤷‍♂️

Greg Quinn

“Part of me thinks John De Lancie just showed up on set naked.” You’re not far off. The trivia for the episode says “After several unsuccessful attempts by director Les Landau to film Q's nude scene without forcing the actor to actually be naked, a frustrated John de Lancie finally asked anyone offended by nudity to leave, stripped down, and filmed the scene in one take.” 😆

Ragnarok

There is only one Q episode I actually hate.... won't say any more except it's definitely not this one.

Greg Quinn

Bingo. He even says "how do you stand it day after day", so he knows it's a regular thing

Timothy Nikiforovs

I've thought that too. Given how he was also doing other things to test what Q would do it makes sense.

Greg Quinn

One of my favorite episodes. 1) It's an absolute stand-out in the whole franchise for humor. 2) It has one of my favorite Data moments. Laughing convincingly as an actor is even harder than crying, and Spiner pulls off his one chance to do it so perfectly. He has said Stan Laurel was one of his greatest inspirations (who in turn was mentored by Charlie Chaplin) and you can 100% see it here. 3) So many great character moments with Picard being annoyed (basically constant facepalm), Guinan becoming heartless, and Data & Q musing on humanity from opposite perspectives. It's not in my all-time Top 10, but it's still top tier and always good for a rewatch. :)

Dan Halstead

While I wasn't hugely invested...I felt like the aliens gave us enough exposition on the consequences and also came off as "good people" well enough that I had some investment in them. But that story was primarily a secondary device to get the Q interactions/costs into play.

Greg Quinn

Yeah they definitely aren't completely "all knowing". If you were all knowing hypothetically your intelligence would be infinite wouldn't it? Here Q gives a number of 2005 for his IQ. Which would be incredible if such a IQ was possible but it would be very finite.

Greg Quinn

The other Q is Corbin Bernsen, who played a attorney on LA Law at the same time. I remember watching this as a kid being surprised because at the time even though TNG was my favorite show I felt like network shows were "bigger".

Greg Quinn

Well...this one I like more compared to how much you guys like it

Greg Quinn

"Oh, very good Worf. Eat any good books lately?" Is my favorite Q quote.

Dmitriy.0

When is Alex coming back? Why did you replace him with his kid brother?

Phil Ken Sebben

Are you saying it would more enjoyable if our reaction to every episode fell in line with the general consensus? Would that remain interesting? Genuine question.

Josh (Target Audience)

Unfortunately, it wasn't epic to them. It was blah.

C_Drew

Of course am still worried...but nothing can be done about that. It just lessens the enjoyment of rewatching the episodes with you, that's all. I guess it's an inherent risk we have to accept being fans of reaction content.

C_Drew

Yeah the Q stuff was good, wish we got more.

Josh (Target Audience)

Nice to see I’m not alone in thinking this episode could have been better. The writing was thin for me, save for the last fifteen minutes. But I appreciate it for what it is, an addition to the Q lore. And I appreciate it is a fan-favorite. So I’ll be quiet before I get kicked out of here. Of all the season 3 episodes we’ve covered here so far, the Enemy might be my fave.

Shanelle

Just listen to the first second or two. https://youtu.be/oe3OnweQHqY?si=-phdUJ2UJOeSrZEW

Ken R

I actually have a theory that the 2nd Q guy caused the whole thing! Data said it was a "most unusual phenomenon" and how the Calamarain found Q the minute he turned mortal was never explained. Gives a little more life to an otherwise generic B plot.

Trouty McTroutTrout

It's like a hangover, you have no idea what it's really like until you get one.

JD Nevesytrof

A WEEK BREAK, A Q EPISODE AND THEY DIDN'T WORSHIP IT??? *cancelled very badly*

JD Nevesytrof

free cigars for all

Narnman

I was deeply invested in all of the above, especially the relationship between Q (De Lan-cee) and Data.

Roland_D

Some of their takes might be deemed from the Bizarro world perhaps yes, but that seems to be a feature, not a bug of this channel. To my knowledge J&A are the first recorded humans to like The Motion Picture more than Wrath of Khan, but evidence is still being analyzed by our scientists out in the field.

Ken R

Technically it's De-LAN-cee, emphasis on the second syllable. Just make sure you pronounce the vowel, you heathen!

JGoss

We were yelled at for saying it that way I’m so confused 😭

Josh (Target Audience)

De-Lan-CEEEE, Josh, De-Lan-CEEEE

JGoss

Looks like Donnie Wahlberg

JGoss

Aw, you missed Picard's annoyed pause walking out of the brig when Q asks "can I have a Starfleet uniform?"

JGoss

Its not that he didn't know that people sleep/eat, its that he has never experienced it which is a huge thing if you were in his position

C_Drew

Another thing I love to think is that, even if Data never laughs again, the memory of it is recorded in his memory, so I think he can replicate it if he wanted to.

wildhunt1973

The scars have mostly healed, but Josh and Alex were underwhelmed at first with 'Balance Of Terror'. They both revised that reaction on a second viewing. Not so with 'The Doomsday Machine'. The Tribbles episode wasn't one of their highlights (I agree with them). Both Alex and Josh thought season 3 had more worth than many TOS fans....and I thought they argued their case about S3 well, but I don't respond to it as relatively positively as they did.

Numinous2019

Not dislike, but similar to this episode we thought some fan-favorites were fine instead of loving them.

Josh (Target Audience)

Josh, this episode will make more sense in terms of its style and position in the sequence once you've seen the rest of season 3. If you thought that 'The Defector' was strong drama.......

Numinous2019

Completely agree with you.

Numinous2019

I'm not a big TOS guy if that's what you're referring to. Did they dislike a lot of popular episodes in those reactions?

Spencer Loften

Q might know about sleeping and eating but he has never experienced what it felt like.

Aramis Calcutt

Ask them about Doomsday Machine sometime.

Ken R

Wait, you didn't love this episode? *cancels subscription* ;)

JGoss

This is probably my No. 1 favourite Q episode. If character stuff is what you like, this is pretty much all character stuff, aside from the background plot.

Aramis Calcutt

Often Guinan is in a single scene, like here, or talking to Geordi in Booby Trap, but they're always memorable and meaningful. They did a good job using her sparingly yet effectively.

JGoss

The servers in 10-forward were probably civilians, so their uniforms would be like a restaurant employee uniform rather than a Starfleet service uniform. Indeed, it's likely that most of the outfits we have seen Counselor Trio in are just civilian clothes with a communicator badge stuck on.

Aramis Calcutt

Maybe reconsider your thoughts about what Q would know. Seeing people sleep or eat is completely different than the feelings associated with those events. The Q are an arrogant species, who claim to be "all knowing" or "all seeing", but are they? Taking into account only what we have seen up to this episode, no, not all knowing or all seeing. So, being a "Q" and suddenly being human, might be the equivalent to a human suddenly being a jellyfish. We see a jellyfish swimming, maybe eating.... but would anyone have any clue what it's like to BE a jellyfish? We'd even look at our tentacles and be like "Woh! These are weird." We may even look at them a few dozen times and be freaked out by them.

THE Fans

YEAH BABY!!! One of my favorites!!! Yes, the B plot was thin, but it was all about Q and I had lots of fun with it. Your reaction is still great. But for me watching it as a kid, and watching it now, I'm distracted by the joy of watching John de Lancie messing with everyone.

Firekrys FWO

My take has always been that Q knows about sleep, but he has no experience so he doesnt associate this terrifying thing that he just went through with the banal "sleep" mortals do. I also read the perfectly circular orbit as a mark of its artificial nature. Q didnt put it back where it was originally, he just made it the average distance and never falling. Which I then like to imagine caused hell after the Enterprise left.

Julie Carter

I found this a nothing, waste of time episode. It's cute at times. If you like John D.

Ken R

Are you not still worried? Because I’m sure there will be plenty of “good” episodes that aren’t our favorite.

Josh (Target Audience)

You guys need to remember.....As a veteran watcher of TNG since the late 1980's, I outrank you both. No insubordination will be tolerated.

Numinous2019

Which plot were you deeply invested in; the fate of the species we saw on the view screen for 30 seconds or the faceless alien chasing Q for a couple of scenes?

Josh (Target Audience)

I think this episode depends heavily on de Lancie. Some fans don't rate it as an overall story. Myself, I always enjoyed what de Lancie brought to the character and the show. He's a welcome change of pace from the deliberately more sober and lower key acting style of the Enterprise crew.

Numinous2019

Doing it at the perigee I think makes sense because the maneuver they were doing was to lower the mass of the moon when it also has its highest velocity, and apply more force (tractor beam + impulse engines), which I think would move it to a higher orbit - or buy them a little more time, as was the case here

Vina

Throw-away plot? C’mon guys.

Roland_D

If you've ever seen the movie "Major League" which came out a year or two before this, Corbin Bernsen was an egotistical shortstop for the fictional version of the Cleveland Indians (now Guardians) in this and in its two sequels. Hey, I'm a baseball fan in general and a Milwaukee Brewers fan in particular, and in the first movie most of the ballpark scenes were filmed at a not very well concealed Milwaukee County Stadium, the Crew's former home. I never watched L.A. Law but I knew he was a huge star on it. The Brewers also for a few years had a Cy Young Award winning pitcher named Corbin Burnes, now with the Orioles. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. I'm only mildly peeved at your reaction and let it go at that. Why Geordi asked Data why he was laughing is kind of strange since it should be obvious it was because of Q's gift. They all heard Q say he was giving him a going away present and Data almost immediately starts laughing. Of course, no one but Q heard Data say earlier in the episode that he will never know what it was like to laugh or cry.

KatWithAttitude

Yea the moon B-plot could have been swapped out for anything insurmountable and imminently dangerous for the crew, which ultimately only Q could stop

Vina

"Die". My favorite Worf line

Doug

Who is the young man on the left?

Sam Langanke

The first time? Lucky you. At some point I got so worried I was wondering if there was a point in them watching the show coz they'll just dunk on good episodes.

C_Drew

To answer your first question: Yes, John de Lancie was naked in that scene. Although he had cut back his active involvement in TNG by this point, Gene Roddenberry stepped in to suggest a radical alteration to this episode’s concept. Originally, Q was only *pretending* to have lost his powers and manufactured an apparent conflict with the Klingons to demonstrate the knowledge and expertise he could bring to the Enterprise as a human crewmember. Roddenberry said that they should instead do a story about an all-powerful being genuinely losing everything and experiencing what it means to be human. Opinions among fans differ on whether this was a good change. The ”technobabble” in this episode is more scientifically accurate than usual. Fans have expressed bewilderment as to why the Enterprise is attempting to alter the moon’s orbit at its closest approach to the planet, when it would take the least energy to do so at the orbit’s farthest point, but there may be 24th-century technological considerations involved which we cannot understand. Also, the word “perigee” refers specifically to the lowest point in an orbit around the Earth; since the moon in this episode is orbiting an alien planet, the generic term “periapsis” would have been more appropriate. Fans have also complained about Data referring to the moon’s final orbit as “circular” when all orbits are elliptical, but in fact astronomers often refer to orbits that are only slightly elliptical as “circular” for simplicity’s sake. Geordi states in the cold open that correcting the errant moon’s orbit may mean “exceeding recommended impulse engine output by at least 47%.” At this point in the Star Trek franchise, occurrences of the number 47 were still meaningless coincidences (as with Cyrano Jones being in violation of three Federation and 47 local mandates in “More Tribbles, More Troubles”), but that would no longer be the case starting in TNG Season 4, when the writers began inserting references to 47 as a recurring in-joke, like the “hidden Mickeys” in Disney films and theme parks. Like Josh, I never understood the meaning of the name “Ten-Forward” until I saw this episode for the first time. At least three lines or passages of dialogue in this episode have acquired extremely dark subtexts in retrospect, which the writers did not intend at the time and which I cannot yet explain. This is the first time TNG’s opening guest cast credits have omitted an actor to preserve his appearance as a surprise. In 1990, when this episode aired, Corbin Bernsen (Q2) was one of the biggest stars on American television due to his role as Arnold Becker on "L.A. Law" (which also, of course, featured Diana Muldaur). Viewers would have recognized him instantly at the end of the episode and would have been impatiently awaiting his appearance if his name had appeared on screen at the beginning of Act One. Bernsen would later play the lead role of astronaut Henry “Bull” Eckert in the short-lived drama series "The Cape" (1996-1997). (Realistic TV series about fictional astronauts set in the present day or the near future never become popular. Other examples include "Men into Space" [1959-1960], "The Clear Horizon" [a 1960-1962 daytime soap opera], "Defying Gravity" [2009], "Extant" [2014-2015, starring Halle Berry], "Mars" [2016-2018], "The First" [2018], "Away" [2020] and "Constellation" [2024].) Richard Cansino (Dr. Garin), the nephew of legendary actor Rita Hayworth, is best known as an anime voice actor. When Q allows Data to laugh in the episode’s final scene, I love the subtlety of Marina Sirtis’ reaction in her closeup, clearly indicating that Troi can sense amusement from Data for the first time. The beautiful piece of music at the end of the episode, after the Enterprise crew learns that the moon’s orbit has returned to normal, is extremely characteristic of Dennis McCarthy’s style when he is able or willing to write melodies. This cue is typical McCarthy wrapped up in a package of 30 seconds or so and is reminiscent of McCarthy’s later music for the Star Trek franchise, from an era when trends in Star Trek’s music had shifted again, which Alex and Josh will not hear for another few years. On its original broadcast, “Deja Q” was one of the two episodes which received the highest Nielsen ratings in TNG Season 3.

Anthony Bernacchi

If they're still interested in Shakespeare and Dickens and very old classical music, I don't see why not. I think TOS and older episodes of this show, especially season 1, had a tendency to act like all Earth culture past the 19th century is forgettable and beneath them. I always thought it made our TNG crew appear kind of stuffy.

Joe Concepts

Heh! You guys are gonna get an ear full in the chat with this one lol. Great commentary after the show, I always enjoy what details you guys pick up on. This is one of my favorite Q episodes! What's funny is that the "plot" of the moon falling out of orbit actually turns out to be the sub-plot. The main story is Q losing his powers and Data being the one to guide him as he deals with life as a mortal. The scene with the Mariachi band you can physically see Jonathan Frakes smile and turn his head to hide his laughter. Patrick Stewart is also struggling to keep it together (obviously John de Lancie has no clue how to play the trumpet but he sells this scene so well). I loved the eerie music when Guinan walks into the room and the 1-liners throughout. Congrats on catching 1 of the 2 famous face palm memes in this episode!

Trouty McTroutTrout

Yep, this will be a contrast with the patron takes, I would guess. I'm a little surprised given you guys' interest in character stories, etc. I wonder what you think of the more humorous Q character that we're seeing here.

Joe Concepts

The best part of this episode is the back and forth between Q and Worf. "Eat any good books lately?" I always forget its coming, but it makes me laugh every time.

Ca$hWednesday

“You guys need to remember” incoming

Josh (Target Audience)

Agreed. A conceptual awareness of something is very, very different than direct personal experience of that thing. Just as a novel experience is much more intense than a routine one. Just imagine if you lived the the first 20 years of your life without ever sleeping (with no ill effects), and then suddenly fell into the kind of sleep where your body is much more in charge of the process than your mind. That series of new sensations, at a time when you had developed full self awareness, would be amazingly distressing.

Avaria

I'd say this is is the first time I have been surprised by one of your reactions considering how well regarded this episode is by most fans. Not one of my personal favorites either but I still expected you guys to like this one a bit more. Very interested to hear what you say in the discussion.

Spencer Loften

Well, goodbye Yukon Cornelius. I will shed a single man tear at the passing of Alex's beard. "It was fine." Oh, youtube will have a field day. WHAT?! YOU DIDN'T LOVE IT!? WAR CRIMES! WOKE GARBAGE! SHUT THIS CHANNEL DOWN CANCELLED AHHH!!! "What must I do to convince you people?" "Die." Still one of my favorite exchanges between Q and Worf. Data getting his moment of laughter. What I love about Spiner's performance there is ont he button he puts just a hint, just a tiny little dab of sadness in the "I do not know... But it was a wonderful... feeling." Like... It's so beautifully subtle. Something we take so for granted. The joy of joy. The purity of a good laugh. The fact that Q, somehow doesn't understand humanity, yet so perfectly understands that small gift. And Data even foreshadows this earlier when he mentions "I will never laugh, or cry." It's just... Mm. So good.

Steven Johnson

I mean mariachi bands have been a thing for centuries, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume they were around during the 24th century. Same with cigars.

Captain Proton

I don't take those sleep and hunger moments that he doesn't know humans do that, its more he doesn't know the bodily feelings that drive us to do those things. He doesn't know how it feels to get tired and fall asleep. He knows we sleep just not the feeling of it and wouldn't that be scary to someone thats never felt that? Or the discomfort of getting hungry.

Sequiro

With one exception, my favorite Q episode.

Glenn Johnson Barnes

OK I know I'm new here on the Target Audience Patreon, but the title says "Uncut" and I see a beard missing.

Paul Hess

Eventually the endless 20th century jokes get annoying, as if Picard or anyone in the 24th century knows anything about cigars or mariachi trumpet bands.

Alan Thompson

A truly memorable episode, with a career / character defining performance by John De Lancie, but standout performances by Brent Spiner and Patrick Stewart, as well as classic moments from Worf. And,the origin of the 'Picard Facepalm' meme... Welcome to the first of the 6 *epic* episodes of the latter half of Season 3 😉

The Ninth Doctor

😱❤️😂

SinocTheHodgeheg