XaiJu
Target Audience
Target Audience

patreon


UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S3E9 - The Vengeance Factor

UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S3E9 - The Vengeance Factor

Comments

Ahhhh yes, the Nightmare on Elm Street videos. Thank you. I thought she did a pretty good job in her role as Yuta. Especially during the scenes she had with Riker, where i felt like I could see the pain in her eyes.

Clyde Frog

Agreed in both points! Still cool effect when she died lol The way the actor arched her back and the animator used that choice to dissolve the character.

PIG

I loved the episode for showing the advanced role of the federation as diplomats and a power broker in the alpha quadrant. I do like how they brought back the disintegration effect for kill setting. But it makes zero sense that riker had to kill her. All he had to do was physically tackle her🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

It’s ok but not one of the lesser this season

Scarpad’s Domain

So, I'm going to go against the grain and say I actually have a soft spot for this episode. And no, not because I saw it as a kid. I mean I'm sure I did at some point, but it's not the most memorable. It was probably 2018 or so when I last saw it as part of my big Trek rewatch, and I appreciated it a lot more than I expected given I didn't even remember it. I do think most people here are on the same page about what the strengths and weaknesses of the episode are. It's just a matter of how much you appreciate the positives and how much you dislike the negatives. I guess simply put, I think there's a really good episode here, but it's dragged down by poor execution. In some ways this feels like a season 2 episode shot in season 3. If I were to change the episode, I would definitely remove the scene of her killing the old man. I would keep Brull as the main guy for the gatherers and the meeting they went to could just be with other lieutenants from the gatherers. I would also have found a way to make Riker's need to kill Yuta much more convincing. Maybe she could have had a machine that pulls the virus from her blood and releases it as an aerosol, and they figured it out from the transport log. She could have been planning to release the virus just before transporting back, and it goes into the ventilation system and kills Chorgan without anyone suspecting her. Then the only way Riker can prevent her releasing it is to vaporise her to destroy the virus. Something like that. The main strength of the episode is Riker and Yuta. He clearly genuinely cared about her, and to an extent he could probably care less if Chorgan died, but there's a much bigger issue at stake. The gatherer raids need to stop, and that's not going to happen if he allows the assassination of their leader. From an artistic sense, I love the idea of Riker being caught between his duty and his personal feelings in such a painful way. He genuinely wanted to save Yuta, both when he thought she was a servant being prevented from living her life, and later after finding out she's been an assassin for the past century, but he's still going to do his duty no matter how much he ends up hating himself for it. So I think this episode does a lot to define Riker. Brull was also good but underused. Reminds me a little of Blackbeard in Assassin's Creed Black Flag. The kind of guy who's in the life but wishes he weren't. Yeah, he's kind of an ass, but he wants a better future for his kids and he's willing to swallow his pride and make a deal to accomplish it. Marouk was right in describing the gatherers as parasites. When Chorgan says "do we look like farmers" right after asking if they'll be fed and clothed, it just makes them all look too lazy and stupid to build anything for themselves. Brull at least seemed like he would have welcomed the change if the federation and acamarians offered to get them set up with their own agriculture and industry. Odd choice of aesthetic for the group though. And while I'm sure Worf personally maintains good hygiene, it's gotta sting having a klingon tell you that you need to bathe more. Marouk wasn't too bad in the end. She could be kind of condescending and short tempered, but given her aristocratic background, and the uncouth behaviour of the gatherers(Brull basically throwing "yo mama" jokes at her), she was surprisingly diplomatic and open minded by the end. It's certainly still on the low end for the season, but I'd probably give it a mid to high C rating. There's certainly much worse stuff.

Timothy Nikiforovs

there's 8 billion people on Earth. If you can imagine a kind of person, there's at least 1 of em out there

Timothy Nikiforovs

I said romance not "affair." You equate romance with "getting porked?" No wonder you have so much time to watch Star Trek lol. JK, you're all good

Trouty McTroutTrout

I still say there is far worse coming. But preposterous-worse, not plot-design-worse or character-worse.

Jovet

Bingo!

Jovet

I disagree, Andreas. They couldn't be THAT elusive if they just waltzed up to wherever the leader of the group is. Their elusive-ity is already stretched pretty thin.

Jovet

@Trouty McTroutTrout The affair. They never porked.

Jovet

@Anthony I stand corrected.

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

Glad that’s over. Thankfully I now never, ever have to watch this dreadful episode again.

Jonathan Llyr

Lisa Wilcox was the heroine in a couple of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies..a few others 80’s screamers as well I think.

Glenn Johnson Barnes

It was probably Melvin Belli's favorite episode.

Anthony Bernacchi

I forgot that this was an episode where you are clued in to what is going on almost from the beginning. No wonder I always found this one very boring. I agree with you that it would have been a lot better if we were in the dark, and finding out it was Yuta would have been a big reveal near the end.

BN13

And he's always horny! LOL

Terrell Harkness

What was non-existent?

Trouty McTroutTrout

"And the Children Shall Lead" is NO ONE'S favorite episode. Not every episode is someone's favorite. 🤪🤯🤣🖖

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

Snoozefest! It's a shame because I can totally see taking the premise and some of the main elements and making a really banger episode. Btw autonomy is basically self-rule (it literally means "self-law") without full blown independence (for example they can't declare a war on their own). The states that make up the US are autonomous to an extent: they have their legislature (state Senate, House of Representatives) with which to make laws and a court system to interpret and apply them. Obviously there is still the federal legislature and judiciary (Congress, Senate, Supreme court etc) but still each state gets to do its own thing within the framework provided by the Constitution.

Captain Proton

I don’t think Jonathan Frakes has ever played Bruce Wayne, but he did play a Tony Stark type character on “Gargoyles”

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

I didn't realize Sirtis' husband had been in this episode. She is such a sweet lady. I saw her at a Sci Fi con in Hartford, CT back in '92 or '93. She had the audience in the palm of her hand - so funny and cheerful. I did know her husband had died in recent years. When I saw her in a performance in an episode of another series more recently, I thought she might have used that pain to play a particular sadness-filled scene.

Collin Freeman

Very much agreed that both the sovereign and the leader of the Gatherers were weak characters, both in terms of the writing and the acting. I think the thing where the audience is let in on something before the characters are CAN work very well, but it's not done well here. Ideally, it can be used to generate suspense, but the problem here is that we know from the beginning that she's going after a certain clan, so we're not thinking that the crew is in any danger from her. Or, if her relationship with Riker had been better developed, it could have twisted the knife of us knowing that she was going to betray him, but the episode doesn't spend enough time on that for it to have that kind of impact. I agree that in this episode, it would have worked better if the audience had been in the dark about her until the crew figures it out.

Steven Linden

I knew The Gatherers was a Heavy Metal band back in the day. Had a big influence on Metallica. The 1989 "Blood Feud" tour was sick. I think if i could remember.

Sam Langanke

Yeah, it helped a lot.

Jovet

Josh, you and I are on the same page with this episode. Agree with all your comments.

Collin Freeman

Hopefully the blurred image constantly on screen can help you know when to pause for a moment

Josh (Target Audience)

... before it was kewl.

Jovet

@Philbot It was non-existent. She expected or wanted a dominant male and Riker isn't that way.

Jovet

I think the acting was fine. The writing was weak, overall.

Jovet

Yareena's first, Lutan, and the vackseen?

Jovet

But! Riker's 'bone!!

Jovet

I had a lot of trouble keeping the episode sync'd to your reaction this episode. Your reaction was running faster. (Trouble I haven't had for the past few weeks.)

Jovet

I think “Vengeance” would’ve been a stronger title. Really neat fact about the opening set being from Forbidden Planet!

Josh (Target Audience)

I wrote that in the Patron takes. They could have beamed off Chorgan too. As long as they stay separated, he'll be fine.

Jovet

46:30 Yuta didn't get that, either. (LOL!)

Jovet

Working titles: “The Human Factor,” “The Vengeance,” “The Weapon.” This is the third Star Trek episode with the word “Factor” in its title, following “The Alternative Factor” and “The Icarus Factor.” Along with “Too Short a Season,” “The Vengeance Factor” is one of a select group of TNG episodes that I tend to forget exists. This may be because I saw reruns of these episodes less frequently than the others during the height of my Star Trek fandom in the 1990s, but there seems to be something about these episodes that prevents them from retaining their hold on my memory. Part of the problem with “The Vengeance Factor” may be Lisa Wilcox’s performance as Yuta. Jonathan Frakes is a wonderful actor, but he is not one of the three greatest actors in TNG’s regular cast (whose identities viewers have figured out by now). However, his scenes opposite Wilcox in this episode make him seem like Laurence Olivier by comparison. Certainly, one could argue that Wilcox is doing an excellent job of playing someone convinced that she has no choices in life, but unfortunately the result is that she becomes actively uncomfortable to watch. Also, the episode centers on a dispute between two factions of an alien race of which we have never heard before and about which we have no reason to care. While one could say the same of an episode such as “A Taste of Armageddon,” “The Vengeance Factor” does not have that episode’s ingenious central concept or its compelling guest performances (although Nancy Parsons is excellent as Marouk). The scenic backdrop in the opening shot of the episode comes from the film "Forbidden Planet." The backdrop was still in circulation in Hollywood in 1989, and TNG rented it for this episode. When Riker shoots and disintegrates Yuta, Picard’s failure to react is due to Patrick Stewart having to remain motionless in the background of the shot for the compositing to work. Episode director Timothy Bond thought that Picard’s presence in the shot would make the effect more impressive, but later admitted that he should have kept Picard off-camera at that moment so that the audience would not ask why he did nothing. As you mentioned, Lisa Wilcox (Yuta) starred as Alice Johnson in the fourth and fifth "Nightmare on Elm Street" movies. Stephen Lee (Chorgan) appeared in "RoboCop 2," which also featured Gabriel Damon (Jeremy Aster in “The Bonding”). The acting career of Marc Lawrence (Volnoth, the elderly murder victim) lasted for 71 years, from 1932 to 2003, and included appearances in two James Bond films (in separate roles), "Diamonds Are Forever" and "The Man with the Golden Gun." He also appeared in the "Wonder Woman" episode “Going, Going, Gone.” Alpha Leonis, the system to which the Enterprise will bring medical supplies after stopping at Starbase 343, is better known to Earth-based stargazers as Regulus, the brightest star in the constellation Leo. The writers may have had Picard say “Alpha Leonis” because “Regulus system” would have sounded too much like he was referring to Regula, the planetoid from Wrath of Khan. The Final Draft script has an added bit at the end of the final scene that would have made the conclusion more tear-jerking but might have weakened its dramatic power: Riker goes to a food slot in Ten-Forward and orders “Parthus. A la Yuta.” Marina Sirtis, who had reportedly hooked up with multiple male guest stars (I have no idea which ones) during TNG Season 1, met the man with whom she would settle down during the filming of “The Vengeance Factor.” Actor and rock guitarist Michael Lamper appeared in the episode as a Gatherer extra. He and Sirtis would marry three years later, in 1992, remaining married until Lamper’s death in 2019.

Anthony Bernacchi

Yeah, it was kind of weird to give him that nice sort of bonding moment with Wesley and then just completely sideline him all together.

Ryan Caulfield

9:25 Riker's charm is only on when he's horny.

Jovet

No never noticed! I love seeing Worf's proficiency with a phaser which would realistically be more practical than his fist fighting ability.

Trouty McTroutTrout

I agree with you guys about not liking being ahead of the characters, but I think it does give more weight to Yuta's relationship to Riker to know that she is the killer ahead of time. Though the explanation scenes were still tedious to watch for sure. And yeah, the Gatherers were pretty awful. I wish there had been more moments like the one with Wesley to humanize them a little or at least make them more compelling. Just an average episode for me, propped up by some good Riker moments.

Ryan Caulfield

I love this episode. Especially the part about the clans and their blood feud. That is a super interesting idea imo. Also, the blonde who plays Yuta is so damn sexy. Plus she tells Riker she'd do whatever he wanted. Jackpot Riker. I seem to remember Mike from Red Letter Media mentioning that actress for some reason on one of their videos. I cant remember the factoid, so I'll have to go find it so i dont go insane.

Clyde Frog

Agreed. Some nice character exposition regarding how he views relationships. He's a highlight of this episode.

Trouty McTroutTrout

Trimmed down beard looks good, Alex! P.S. Yukon wants his Driver's License back...

Jovet

First time I ever saw this (when I was very young, can't have been more than a few years after the episode came out) my Mom explained that the technology of extrapolating the face was impossible. But we have very similar technology now, and have for several years. I'm not sure it could reconstruct a face from that much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it could come close. As for the episode... I like it, but in my earlier comments I compared it to "National Treasure." I enjoy the episode, probably more on the second watch than the first, because I already know what's coming. (If you already know the killer and the outcome, it's not as disappointing that they tip their hand before the second commercial break.) But it's not like I can really justify liking it. I just do.

John

We got WORKED!

Josh (Target Audience)

I think the first gatherer, who interacts with Wesley, would indeed have been a much better character to keep for the entire episode. sidelining him and replacing him with another at the end of the episode was a mistake.

Andreas Schmitt

Funny you guys thought they didn't show the beam effect for dramatic purposes .... only they did, but not for the reasons you thought.

JGoss

Philbot break down this episode's plot to its most basic outline. Then think ahead not too far in TNG's run.

Numinous2019

I’m never in sync, but I’m close enough that I don’t miss anything.

Philbot

There are actually a few episodes (more than one this season) that are way too similar.

Glenn Johnson Barnes

🤔 I’m thinking but I don’t know..

Philbot

I like Marouk’s performance it is almost subtle..

Philbot

Riker is a good guy he’s compassionate towards her although their affair was brief.

Philbot

Chorgon’s face was a bit like Baron Harkonen 84’

Philbot

Have you guys noticed the new Phasers in season 3? Worf gives you a good look at his in this episode. As well as Riker in the end. Season one and two they had more of a tv remote lens emitter. In season 3 the emitter is more like a pistol barrel. I’ve always liked this ep, I love all of season 3! As a kid I appreciated the brief firefight in the beginning I came for the pew pew I stayed for the think, think.🤔

Philbot

Interesting contrast with your apparent Hunt for Red October reaction... There you guys couldn't care about the plot because the characters did nothing for you, here, the plot being spelled out sapped enjoyment of the episode out for you, rather than letting you focus on the character beats. At least when a episode drops a reveal early, I always take it as the episode telling me it wants me to focus on how the characters are responding over any twists the plot might have had. Yuta, the assassin who unquestioningly does her duty for 58 years, suddenly met with someone who sees her as more, but still not able to break away from what she feels she HAS to do. And Riker, left not sure how he never saw it, wondering if he could have done more. Don;t get me wrong, this isn't a great episode, or even my favorite, and the use of dramatic irony wasn't really used for much drama, but I think there's some average merit here. I still like this one over The Price... but maybe that's cause this episode had some good VFX and shootouts and it tickled my man-brain. I dunno, I somehow feel more sympathy for murderess Yuta who seemed sincere, than I did that slimy Betazoid Ral, whose worse crime was manipulation. I'm sure after this episode Riker and Troi sat down and discussed their disastrous love lives.

Nolan

Definitely Chorgan

Josh (Target Audience)

It is... A MENACE!

Matt Newmark

It's when she's shouting that I expect her to say something about someone's taliwhacker.

Mike Rogers

Great show, I think you guys would dig it.

Mike Rogers

What? You didn't go for the 80's metal band aliens?

Mike Rogers

Unless they were planning to hold her in the brig for the next century, this lady was programmed to murder that specific faction...so she was forever a threat if she ever got out. Somehow, its more merciful to let her die. She must have been tortured all those years, carrying the grudge of her entire decimated clan, with the burden of revenge on her back till the end of time

C_Drew

I have trypophobia...I hated trying to watch this episode because of those things on the Gatherers faces....urgh!!! Am itchy and extremely nauseated at the same time when I see them..urgh!!!.shivers!!!

C_Drew

Riker is the king of consent.

Ramen Nudels

I figured this would be a rough one for you guys and I was right! I still like this episode a lot because of the concept of a separated civilization that Picard has to try and reconcile. Plus Yuta is a very interesting personality. The issue I think is that they bit off more than they could chew. Between the murder mystery (which we already know about), finding the different factions and the negotiations themselves, plus the Riker side romance, there was just too much happening to flesh out any one part of the story sufficiently. Super fun idea with bad execution.

Trouty McTroutTrout

"A low-key nice Wesley moment. ... but he wasn't a jerk about it or anything." *next scene* "YOU have CHILDREN????" aaaand it's gone.

JGoss

"Brull, Marouk or Chorgan, which one overacted the most?" "Yes"

JGoss

Oh shoot. I must have not noticed it because of #syncissues

JGoss

Very good point.

Numinous2019

I can't say anything about this episode, because......I have to be vague enough about this.....it resembles another episode and strangely might have been a dry-run for it. Whatever the reason, it is odd that the writers would green-light another script for TNG.

Numinous2019

And that one also is carried by a tremendously entertaining lead actor.

Joe Concepts

I used to turn up the volume on the uncuts and listen to them react with just the faint background audio of the episode. Then they started using these so called "headphone" things. Really inconsiderate of ME and MY needs. Trying to make this whole "reaction channel" thing more professional and proficient but what about MY needs?

Steven Johnson

Yeah we’ve been told about that series, and honestly if that’s the whole conceit of the show then at least going in you know that’s what you’re getting.

Josh (Target Audience)

A "good enough" middle of the road episode. I definitely agree with your point of knowing she was the killer to start. Just never watch the old "Columbo" show. They start every episode with the guest star committing the murder.

Joe Concepts

Isn't that how all the full length reactions have been?

Joe Concepts

Another just okay episode.

Mel Primus

Meh this is alright, nothing special and some weird editing and plot choices. Not really helped by being surrounded by so much better stuff.

Darren Seal

God I can’t wait for the rest of this season. This one is a skip episode for most.

Phil Ken Sebben

I did make a comment about Picard being still in that scene at 40:48 of the video

Josh (Target Audience)

Interesting, you didn't pick up on the awkward death scene. Picard just sitting there motionless really sticks out once you notice it. The director told him to be still because of the vaporization effect, and it didn't come off well.

JGoss

Probably need to adjust the Yuta character a bit so she's not quite as tortured to Riker, but yes.

JGoss

The audience is ahead of the characters for the entire episode. I wonder if they'll like this episode...

Evan Guthrie

The only comparison that occurred to me without making any reference to the actual reason for their expressions. This isn't an episode I've ever re-watched.

Numinous2019

😭💀

Josh (Target Audience)

Fun fact, i went to a Stones concert a couple of weeks ago and the Gatherers made an appearance. I swear, group of 6, same attitude, same rough housing, same hair. The leader guy even looked like Chorgan. They were in camo and khaki though instead of space punk.

Connor Fallon

Literally cut that one scene and this episode is much better

Josh (Target Audience)

"LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND?" It's funny, I just watched the Seinfeld episode he was on last night, the handyman who builds Costanza's desk bed and Jerry's kitchen. Complete 180 of Chorgan, basically sucked the life out of the scene.

JGoss

I feel like they could have just beamed her off the ship and into the brig

D Jammers

The episode plays much better if Yuta killing the old man was cut. This for me is the last speed bump of season 3. Good-to-amazing episodes the rest of the way!

JGoss

I completely agree that this one could have been way better with a little re-ordering, a little streamlining, and a Chorgan who was far less of a ham

JD Nevesytrof

I'm sure after watching the next episode you guys were like "How are these two episodes in the same show?" The difference in quality is incredible.

Spencer Loften

I heard the word "doofy" at the end there and I think that should be your entire review of the episode.

Steve Boshear

You're watching in sync? I just watch the reaction video by itself and try to guess what they're looking at.

Steve Boshear

Fortunately, there’s not too many more of these lazy, 1980s era “why can’t these warring groups just get along?” kinds of episodes left.

Benjamin Azure

...Don't get in the way of my complaining.

Steven Johnson

I would say this is it nice murder mystery type episode I enjoyed it.

Jason Mitchell

This is one of those episodes that doesn’t get a lot of replay for me. It’s what I would consider a slightly less than baseline episode. It’s not bad, but not memorable either, other than Riker vaporizing Yuta.

Brian Moore

Oh, the crashes weren't just me. The Enemy reaction crashed on me like 4-5 times.

JGoss

#SuspiciouslySpecific

Blaine Martin

Steve, you get the downloads for free.

Josh (Target Audience)

I just want you to know, that I love you guys in a manly fashion. But I freaking HATE how you force me to sync now. This damn sync player crashed around 30 minutes into every reaction. PATREEEEOOONNNNN!!!!

Steven Johnson

That thumbnail of Josh and Alex resembles my recurring nightmare of a job interview. Both interviewers' faces showing a mixture of incredulity and dissatisfaction with my answers. Alex: " How did this guy get this far in the process?!" Josh: "I'm going to have to talk to the security guard about it."

Numinous2019

Two episodes in a row where our main characters had a "guest star of the week" love interest who turns out to be shady (first Deanna in "The Price") and now it's Riker's turn in this episode. Not one of the highlights of season three but not entirely without its merits either.

William McRae

A solid little episode, but I could never get past Miss Ballbricker from Porky’s as the Sovereign. Love Lisa Wilcox though..

Glenn Johnson Barnes

Genuinely forgot it was Thursday. I don't know where is be without y'all

SinocTheHodgeheg


More Creators