Target Audience / PATRON TAKES - Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

I didn’t care for 1, which didn’t feel Trek to me. And I also didn’t care for 6, which was trying too hard. This one had issues but still felt, to me, like a trek episode. Maybe a trek episode that wasn’t top tier, but still Trek. For the record I’m sure they will enjoy 6, but it certainly wasn’t one of my favs (3 was my favorite)

Crankygrandma

2024-03-28 01:55:57 +0000 UTC

Ya it was more that the company they chose was not just inferior to ILM , it was a bit of a scam, caught way over their heads promising to be able to do things and then having no idea how to make it happen

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:44:26 +0000 UTC

It was more that Sarek was the ambassador to the Federation…a well known position. And walked on to the Enterprise during an important diplomatic mission…and only after introducing them in the shuttle bay, did Kirk and McCoy find out who Spocks parents where

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:42:21 +0000 UTC

She also was sleeping with Roddenberry who was in an open swinger relationship with Magel Barret. There where stories Nichelle Nichols was found hanging out nude on set or in his office as a surprise on his birthday during TOS as well as

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:39:05 +0000 UTC

I’m not sure what her decision about staying on in TOS 20 years before this movie, has to do with the music and her performance in this scene 🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:36:24 +0000 UTC

It wasnt even so much that ILM wasnt available. It was the effects company they chose where kinda scammers, in over their heads etc

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:33:06 +0000 UTC

Ugh no, this was the beginning of ruining Scotty and turning him into a bumbling baffoon. With the exception of one scene in Star Trek 6, he was now mostly a different character in 5 and 6 and Relics in TNG. Even having Checkov in command was insulting when Scotty was right there. I miss the gravitas of Scott in command and not being dumb comedic relief

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:30:59 +0000 UTC

It bombed in the theatre. It was a dud for most fans and critics

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:26:33 +0000 UTC

Thats quite a stretch to make about some numbers on a set in an effects scene and editing

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:19:55 +0000 UTC

Nah, Star Trek 3 was the closest

Derek Orr

2024-03-26 11:17:06 +0000 UTC

Giving Spock a half-brother was a very awkward retcon and fans where understandibly irritated by that change. However, since then we had so many retcons that are hard to swollow that this one seems rather mild. That, plus knowing that there is another excellent TOS story after this one, makes the movie a lot more watchable for me these days. The same is true for some TNG movies.

Tim b

2024-03-22 01:07:06 +0000 UTC

Maybe they consider the JJ movies "TOS" movies.

Tim b

2024-03-22 00:46:22 +0000 UTC

Well we finally have a toilet in space …. How many deck 😂

Warpiggaming

2024-03-21 14:44:30 +0000 UTC

Absolutely not the worst Trek production during TNG season 2. But not good. Great one liners

Miah1138

2024-03-21 13:33:56 +0000 UTC

It was dubbed in German. Getting the original version with subtitles was very rare in those days. Even in movie theaters. The german recording studios for TV and movies where very engaged to use the same german voice actors for the same hollywood actors. If possible of course. Fun fact 1: The main studio for this task was in Berlin, so then in West-Berlin. Because West-Berlin was an small "island" in the eastern communsit block and the internet wasn't a thing yet they used the same West-Berlin actors for multiple Hollwood stars. The most outstanding I remember was Marion Degler who dubbed very different actresses like Elizabeth Taylor, Sofia Loren and Audrey Hepburn. But she managed to do a very good job for all her roles with different tones in her voice. Fan fact 2: The voice actor of William Shatner always was Gert Günther "G.G." Hoffmann, who was among others also the german voice of Sean Connery, Rock Hudson and Paul Newman. So it would have have been quite confusing for german, austrian and swiss audicences if Sybok really woud have been played by Sean Connery. :-) Fun fact 3: The only major change I remenber regarding Star Trek was Patrick Stewart who got a new voice mid TNG. German speaking fans never got used to it and the studio changed it back in the TNG movies. Thanks to DVDs later and Streaming nowadays I only watch the original versions.

Sam Langanke

2024-03-21 12:55:24 +0000 UTC

I'm not watching this movie a second time. I paid for the theatrical experience and still feel ripped off.

Nick Sauer

2024-03-21 10:38:27 +0000 UTC

Really, Kirk was just saving Sybok from pain overload. Very altruistic.

Nolan

2024-03-21 03:43:08 +0000 UTC

Joining the Alfa 177 canine from "The Enemy Within" and the targ from "Where No Man Has Gone Before"... we have the Nimbosian horse as the newest member of the 'Regular Animals with Fake Horns Glued to their Heads for Star Trek Club'

James Bottas

2024-03-21 02:40:06 +0000 UTC

That...but also his son has been killed...a son he never really got to bond with. Kirk has a lot of pain.

Greg Quinn

2024-03-20 21:27:30 +0000 UTC

regardless of the attribution of the stories origin I was attempting to illustrate shatner’s facetious sense of humor which is prominent in his personality and likewise present in STV I did not appreciate the humor shatner as director tried to present. But now I see a lot of shatners fingerprint in the movie and appreciate it for the playful way he attempted to go, if even if most of it landed with a thud . It will never leave the basement and always be battling with one of the other movies for the king of the basement But STV as whole is better than i gave it credit at the time I know the toilet had to be a shatner add on. Or perhaps (Klingon) My Original comment was accidentally deleted when I went to correct a couple typos sorry

Thicketdweller

2024-03-20 20:09:16 +0000 UTC

You asked what Kirk’s secret pain would have been, Edith Keeler .

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-03-20 17:52:09 +0000 UTC

The movie that’s the closest in spirit to the tv series

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-03-20 17:49:10 +0000 UTC

Where's the movie discussion?

startrekiborg

2024-03-20 17:22:12 +0000 UTC

That’s interesting to know. Thanks for the background. It does leave us not knowing if it happened or not. The same source (Nichols) said it did and didn’t happen, but you laconically stated your own conclusion as universal fact. It would be interesting if anyone else knows something more about this? I’m surprised Coretta Scott King wouldn’t have corrected Nichelle as she was so keen that no one re-wrote the history and remembered him for more than the “content of his character, not the colour of his skin” line in isolation. Equally, one might think she would have mentioned Star Trek at some point if the story had some truth. I stand by my claim that Nichols could sing for the fan dance though. I think she did a few times in TOS. If memory serves, she sung something different to what was dubbed over it.

Smear Campaign

2024-03-20 11:05:51 +0000 UTC

The movie has some fun bits but for me there’s just too much that’s contrary to the trek that we know. We have a peace planet with a Klingon and Romulan ambassadors? Since when have we had formal diplomatic relations with the Romulans. And then this mysterious galactic barrier that in the entire history of starfleet no one has tried to get through even though the enterprise gets there in a few hours, and then just flies right through. Too much lazy writing. Why would Spock be in the gunners seat on the bird of prey, Klingons can’t fire their own disruptors? And we are really supposed to buy that everyone else in the galaxy is susceptible to syboks mind tricks except our 3 heroes, come on? And then the villain just happens to be spocks brother despite him never being mentioned before. Many other things but it’s just all too much to swallow at once!

Carl Davies

2024-03-20 10:15:45 +0000 UTC

LOL. If you'll forgive me, I'll make use of your movie hybrid title.

Numinous2019

2024-03-20 07:48:30 +0000 UTC

The 1979 book "Return to Tomorrow, The filming of Star Trek The Motion Picture" quotes Nichelle Nichols about her decision not to leave the show and in this version of the story it was Roddenberry who convinced her to stay. "But, the larger thing that was happening was so beautiful that when Gene said, "I don't know why I'm asking you to stay one more season before you make up your mind, but I just feel something. There is an undercurrent I feel about this show, it's not just an ordinary show. Stay..." Well, once Gene Roddenberry speaks, you wind up saying, "Why did I just sign this contract?" You've got to do it. I had complete faith in Gene, and, obviously, he was quite right. He had no way of knowing, he was in turmoil himself. Because his hands were being tied a great deal by the networks and the studio and all the various inputs about what should and should not be on the air. I think they just didn't know what they had. That marvelous thing they had there, nobody knew -- you could only feel." This is the earliest source other than hearsay I could find for any story about her thinking to leave the show and no mention of King. She started talking a lot about meeting King in the 80s and 90s but there's only a very short 8-10 week window when it could have happened, supposedly it was in the production hiatus during seasons 2 and 3, season 2 wrapped towards the end of January '68 and King was murdered on April 4th the same year. There is no source corroborating them meeting then, no pictures, nothing. King's family never talked about it which is weird when Star Trek was supposedly the one show his kids were allowed to stay up and watch. If it was that significant in the King household they surely would have mentioned it at some point. Nichols said it happened decades after it supposedly did with an earlier version of the story by herself making no mention of King. This was a nice story to tell at conventions but I doubt it was more than that.

Phillip Grischa

2024-03-20 06:30:43 +0000 UTC

By now you probably know the long list of production issues: unfinished script due to writer's strike, poor effects, and rushed production schedule with an inexperienced director, but as time passes, the more I appreciate it for what ties the movie together: the Kirk/Spock/McCoy friendship. That's been the heart of TOS, and from that narrow lens, this movie delivers.

JGoss

2024-03-20 06:09:32 +0000 UTC

"There is the classic story of shatner going off on a fan at a convention back in the 70’s suggesting that the fan who had asked about the star date of a given episode told the fan to grow up and move out of their parents basement." That was an SNL skit from 1986.

Phillip Grischa

2024-03-20 06:00:46 +0000 UTC

Star Trek V is the Shatneriest of all Shatner films.

fatproduce

2024-03-20 04:38:02 +0000 UTC

were the films dubbed or played in english? when a film is dubbed do they always use the same voice actor for the same character in each movie? ie is the voice over person who does kirk in star trek 1 the same person who does kirk in each of the star trek movies?

Narnman

2024-03-20 04:22:43 +0000 UTC

I think you can argue the first one, Motion Picture?

Greg Quinn

2024-03-20 04:16:24 +0000 UTC

This movie like season 2 of TNG are both victims of the 1988 writers strike.

Thicketdweller

2024-03-20 02:03:22 +0000 UTC

Did you guys notice the deck numbers when Spock was using the rocket boots to help kirk and McCoy escape There was deck 52 then 64 then 63 then 52 again 77 then 78 then 78 again . I used to think that it was bad movie making, lazy production and editing. Not so much today. There is the classic story of shatner going off on a fan at a convention back in the 70’s suggesting that the fan who had asked about the star date of a given episode told the fan to grow up and move out of their parents basement. I think these floor numbers were shatners way of sticking his fingers in the eyes of the ultra obsessed fan. Not a production flaw. But a feature, of shatners irreverence.

Thicketdweller

2024-03-20 02:00:24 +0000 UTC

I’d run up a mountain to watch Nichelle Nicols do that fan dance and I don’t even bat for that team.

Smear Campaign

2024-03-20 01:56:28 +0000 UTC

In Bones' defense, maybe you just had to be there :)

Moonlander

2024-03-20 01:54:11 +0000 UTC

Nichelle Nichols said it did, many, many, many times. Phillip said it didn't, so I'll be really interested to see the evidence disproving the story.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-03-20 01:53:51 +0000 UTC

I hate this movie less than I used to. But it still sits at the bottom of my tier list when it comes to the movies, right down there next to the motion picture.

Brian Moore

2024-03-20 01:05:20 +0000 UTC

It has it's moments--"What does God need with a starship?"--but the overall story feels like more like a piece of fan fiction than an actual Star Trek movie (right down to the surprise main character sibling).

Wyrwulf

2024-03-20 00:44:21 +0000 UTC

Is Star Trek V bad? No, I don’t believe it is. Is it the worst TOS film? Yes, easily as the story is kinda haphazardly put together while attempting to let each character shine for a scene or two. It isn’t cohesive but, does have several memorable moments. McCoy’s dad, Uhura’s feather dance, everything in Yosemite, everything involving Sybok, and quite possibly my favorite TOS film line “What does God need with a starship?”.

Eric Bundy

2024-03-20 00:32:20 +0000 UTC

It’s not the worst, it’s just that it plays more like a t.v. movie. There are a few nice character moments with the “big three”, but the comedy doesn’t work for me. Making Scotty an idiot is bad, but making the Enterprise a malfunctioning piece of junk just seems disrespectful.

Glenn Johnson Barnes

2024-03-20 00:01:30 +0000 UTC

Which is the worst?

Jovet

2024-03-19 23:36:37 +0000 UTC

I can actually forgive Scotty acting a bit older and "not as with the programme" because I feel it in my older age too.

Jovet

2024-03-19 23:35:45 +0000 UTC

I just want his New Kidney pills!

Jovet

2024-03-19 23:32:17 +0000 UTC

ST:V is like the opposite of something being better than the sum of it's parts. It's a bunch of good character moments in a nothingburger of a film. The cheaper VFX, wholesale re-used TNG sets and disjointed plot make this the weakest of all the classic movies for me. I get what Shatner was going for with satirizing faith healers, but numerous Star Trek and Stargate episodes have done it far better and in 44 minutes.

EnigmaticPenguin

2024-03-19 22:57:44 +0000 UTC

Perhaps the weakest Star Trek TOS film but not unenjoyable. There's a lot of fun stuff but also a lot of really weird. Why does the voyager scream?

Steven Reams

2024-03-19 22:48:52 +0000 UTC

I suspect, like me, you're going to enjoy a lot of this film. (I haven't seen the reaction, as I tend to watch your discussions first.) I love this film, so much goodness in it, some TOS-style adventuring. Unlike the rest of the TOS movies, this feels like an extended episode of TOS with a bigger budget, and is thus the only movie that tries to replicate the magic of TOS the series. And I love it for that.

Andy Frankham-Allen

2024-03-19 22:47:49 +0000 UTC

I found all of them basically out of character even the first time watching in the movie theater. Scotty is an afterthought... a plot convenient brother... so easily converting all the loyal crew against their command... etc. Plot holes galore. I suspect Shatner had his grubby self-indulgent hammy hands all over the script. That being said, it had good moments and it is a TOS film, so of course I love it.

Michael Metrick

2024-03-19 22:21:24 +0000 UTC

It always bothered me that Uhura, Sulu and Chekhov switched sides so easily. Are we to believe that all it took was a quick mind-meld-aided psychotherapy session for them to abandon their principles, commit mutiny and blindly follow Syboc? This feels like a disservice to these beloved characters.

David Felgate

2024-03-19 22:04:26 +0000 UTC

Not the best TOS movie but not the worst. It still felt very TOS.

Crankygrandma

2024-03-19 21:16:11 +0000 UTC

And that isn’t in character too? 🤭

Andrew Duffy

2024-03-19 21:13:52 +0000 UTC

I agree. It struck me as very TOS. Not the best TOS, but very TOS

Crankygrandma

2024-03-19 21:13:41 +0000 UTC

Probably not as bad as the lore (THE LORE!) would suggest, but despite the nice new sets (thanks to TNG) of the Enterprise-A, the quality suffers in comparison to Star Trek IV. The story? definitely ambitious. The chemistry between the OT3? definitely the focus of the movie. But say what you will, Shatner as director knows what we like in a Trek movie. We want action, we want heart, and we want to think...at least a little. And we want to ask God important questions like, "What do you want with my ship!?"

Adam Reid

2024-03-19 21:07:14 +0000 UTC

City in the Edge of Spock's Brain

StonyD

2024-03-19 20:27:36 +0000 UTC

SEVERAL long island ice teas....and you managed to get into the theater without help? You must tell me how to gain this power.

Monty Crawford

2024-03-19 20:09:31 +0000 UTC

I did always like the scene where the characters pain is shown...that was powerful. Bones pain is a tough watch...especially for anyone whose had a parent die. I always though Sarak called baby Spock "sub hunan". But apparently he says "so human". Which is maybe worse for a Vulcan especially Sarak.

Greg Quinn

2024-03-19 20:07:11 +0000 UTC

I doubt Bill remembered that moment. Any time he's asked what his favorite episode is he says "City on the Hill" or something utterly wrong.

Steven Johnson

2024-03-19 20:01:41 +0000 UTC

Some really great scenes in a not great Trek movie. As others mentioned...turning Scotty into a straight up buffoon is a bit annoying. Apparently the head bump/knock out was Shatner's doing and Doohan wasn't happy?

Greg Quinn

2024-03-19 20:01:36 +0000 UTC

Rushed editing doesn't give you "Deck 69" "Deck 74." "Deck 30." They had to change the set for each of those shots. That was definitely a choice! Also, look at Walter Koenig's face on the bridge when Kirk is giving his "speech" before they leave. Shatner passes right in front of Walter, and he looks up from the console with this absolutely contempt-filled look on his face.

Steven Johnson

2024-03-19 19:58:53 +0000 UTC

Whatever your feelings are on the film, the reception at the time was not good to say the least. In the real world, William Shatner was sincerely concerned he had actually killed the Trek film franchise, and it was through the hard work of people like Leonard Nimoy, along with the timing of the Trek 25th Anniversary, that Star Trek VI would even get made. Watching with you guys, once again, gave me a fresh perspective on it, and the one positive I want to give this film is that masterful score by Jerry Goldsmith. Absolutely beautiful.

Steven Johnson

2024-03-19 19:54:34 +0000 UTC

This movie is awful, except for two things: the scene where Sybok takes Kirk/Spock/McCoy's pain is fantastic, and "What does God need with a starship?" is one of my favorite lines from all of Star Trek.

KMScudder

2024-03-19 19:39:07 +0000 UTC

Lucasfilm's A, B. and C teams were otherwise engaged. According to Shatner, the D team was not very good. Couldn't br worse than the company he hired.

Mark Chrisco

2024-03-19 19:37:10 +0000 UTC

The weakest of the six. Scotty getting conked out by his own ship is just wrong. The three singing was just too saccharine for my tastes. 10 yr olds don't sing that song, why are they?

Ken R

2024-03-19 19:25:41 +0000 UTC

This movie would be better remembered if ILM had been able to do the effects. The poor effects just add one more reason to pile on to the movie and label it as bad. With ILM, the movie becomes less "bad" and more "that weird one Shatner made".

Timothy Hennon

2024-03-19 19:23:28 +0000 UTC

As per usual: you enjoyed it more than I thought you would and I enjoyed it more than I remember. Still hokey and a little embarrassing for some of our fav characters (like Scotty banging his head) -but some great character development scenes in there that I can appreciate more now that I am older.

Badger

2024-03-19 19:15:12 +0000 UTC

At the time 'TFF' was released, the odd-numbered TOS film negative reaction started. This unfortunately skewered 'TSFS' in between TMP and TFF to make this rule of thumb work.

Numinous2019

2024-03-19 19:13:39 +0000 UTC

Perhaps being an MST3K fan I'm influenced by the song being in ""Manos" The Hands of Fate."

KatWithAttitude

2024-03-19 19:10:27 +0000 UTC

The kindest interpretation is that Kirk was in fact referring to Sam and then transferred that kinship to his loss of Spock. So Kirk is acknowledging deep personal loss, but confirming his deep bond with Spock as well. Don't know if that was the intention. If it wasn't, then it's a very awkward mis-step.

Numinous2019

2024-03-19 19:10:00 +0000 UTC

If you were trapped living in the wasteland on Nimbus III, and the next most attractive person to you is a weird cat lady or that bald toothless dude from the beginning, you too will run up a sand dune at night to watch Nichelle Nichols dance naked. Facts.

StonyD

2024-03-19 19:05:36 +0000 UTC

You know, this one isn't quite as bad as I remembered, but it's still not great. However, we do get the iconic, "What does God need with a starship?" line out of it. I also think the Scene with Bones facing his fear is really good, and of course there are the camping scenes. Funny thing about those, apparently according to the book "MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios" one of Kevin Feige's biggest inspirations for the creation of the MCU came from his love of the camping scenes in ST: V. He apparently tried to put "[T]he DNA of that campfire scene in every Marvel movie. He wants to take your favorite characters and give you the campfire scene, and give you that sequence in which you just love these people for who they are as people, regardless of their powers, so that when the big stuff happens, you really care about it." So, you can thank ST: V for that, at least.

Michael Mannisto

2024-03-19 19:04:45 +0000 UTC

That sounds like a once in a lifetime experience. Thsnks for sharing. Trekkies are a big family. I really felt that at the Vegas convention my first time 🥰

Andrea R

2024-03-19 19:04:10 +0000 UTC

In my opinion, STAR TREK V The Final Frontier is William Shatner's love-letter to what he remembers TOS being. Crossing the Galactic Barrier, fist-fight down on the planet, fighting a God under an alien-hued sky, focus on The Big Three main characters, etc. This is an episode of STAR TREK The Original 1960's series with a movie budget. No more, no less.

StonyD

2024-03-19 19:03:33 +0000 UTC

There are a lot of inconsistencies with established TOS elements. Kirk saying that he lost a brother once and then referring to getting him back (Spock).....did Shatner not remember Sam Kirk, or was Kirk referring to both Sam and Spock simultaneously? Shatner knew during the making of TOS that the fans picked up on every detail of the show.

Numinous2019

2024-03-19 19:01:32 +0000 UTC

I think Shatner specifically wanted a greater emphasis on action/physicality. Paramount probably thought that approach might bring in a larger audience than usual (and balance out the God storyline).

Numinous2019

2024-03-19 18:57:36 +0000 UTC

thoughts... hmm. - The space junk that the Klingons blow up is Pioneer 10. - Producer Harve Bennet was the Admiral Kirk that speaks to on the viewscreen

Ee'char

2024-03-19 18:57:21 +0000 UTC

I think Paramount saw the ST TOS films as a relatively cheap to make series with a guaranteed revenue stream and would have committed to any script as long as a new film appeared within a set number of years.

Numinous2019

2024-03-19 18:53:17 +0000 UTC

This was the first movie (not just Star Trek movie, but movie period) that I saw in the theatres when I was 10, so I have fond memories of it and enjoyed it a great deal. I'm not surprised that you enjoyed it. I find this is one of those films that tends to get evaluated differently on a rewatch and with the perspective of time and distance. I still love the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes and the score, but the weaknesses start to become apparent after the new factor wears off. I felt the same thing about the first season of TNG.

Michael Ducharme

2024-03-19 18:46:45 +0000 UTC

Care to elaborate?

Smear Campaign

2024-03-19 18:46:03 +0000 UTC

It can be interpreted that the events of this film all happened in Kirk's imagination as he was sitting by the fire with Spok & McCoy. Kinda reflecting on all the crazy adventures he's had with his 2 friends & jokingly thinking about what's the next adventure to come. Then, Star Trek 6 actually happens. That scene with Bones & his father though...

Justin DiBari

2024-03-19 18:41:36 +0000 UTC

The Martin Luther King story is not true, it never happened.

Phillip Grischa

2024-03-19 18:29:19 +0000 UTC

The fan dance scene was dumb. I know Nichelle Nichols really pushed for it but somebody should have told her no. It didn't even make sense in the story, it was as subtle as a neon sign saying "Boobies and free alcohol beyond this dune, definitely not a trap!"

Phillip Grischa

2024-03-19 18:26:33 +0000 UTC

Shatner's idea of rock monsters not working out is why Galaxy Quest (which, yes youtube, they've already seen) has them. I don't dislike this movie, but it also doesn't do a lot for me either. You can definitely tell the budget ran out by the end, something Shatner himself admits was a stupid mistake, front loading the movie and leaving nothing for the grand finale. As bad as this film is to the point another one didn't come for four years, at least it has that scene in the lounge where Sybok dives deep into our characters. And yeah, Spock's deep pain was not even his father accepting his human half, which I think at the point Spock has come to grips with.

Nolan

2024-03-19 18:24:55 +0000 UTC

Easiest way to think of this movie: a fever dream caused by McCoy's beans.

CM Waters

2024-03-19 18:17:16 +0000 UTC

As has happened before with the weaker episodes of TNG, watching this with you guys made me enjoy it much more than I have ever enjoyed this, my least favorite ST film. It's interesting that you didn't make any comments on the really bad special effects... but that's actually a testament to the film if it keeps you that wrapped up in the main three characters. When I first saw this I was appalled at the FX, which could have made the final part much more impressive but ended up making the whole execution completely cheesy and cringy. But perhaps the whole storyline is futile anyway because you KNOW Star Trek isn't going to - and can't - portray God, and it just makes them, especially Bones, look kind of idiotic (despite him having the best line in the movie about asking the almighty for his ID).

David Wayne Fox

2024-03-19 18:17:01 +0000 UTC

Had he actually been referring to his brother it would’ve become our favorite movie

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-03-19 18:15:29 +0000 UTC

I look forward to a future re-watch that you might do when are past spoiler concerns and you can research the interesting fan theory that Kirk is actually drunk at the campfire and the rest of the film is his whiskey dream and they never actually leave the camp. As for people not liking this film I was there in the theater and it got lots of applause, I think the dislike for 5 really only starts happening after 6 starts playing.

Alan Thompson

2024-03-19 18:15:10 +0000 UTC

Before the seventh film "Generations" came out in 1995 a local movie theater in my hometown in Austria, Europe organized a nonstop screening of all first six movies in one night. The house was packed with Trekkies from all over the state who had a real good time. It was the first time I experienced the kindness and passion of the fandom in person. When Star Trek V approached its midpoint almost the whole cinema was asleep, me included. Yes, ist was the fifth movie and around 3 a.m. But when Star Trek VI started everyone was awake again and cheered till the end.

Sam Langanke

2024-03-19 18:09:24 +0000 UTC

Laughed my ass off when you guys thought kirk was referring to his real brother but meant spock lol.

Ramen Nudels

2024-03-19 18:05:56 +0000 UTC

My college roommate and I went to a bar before seeing this movie and I said "Give me a drink that will make me think William Shatner can act." (Please understand I had watched and loved Captain Kirk from childhood. But Shatner's acting is often, shall we say, stylized?) Anyway, several long island iced teas later, I didn't think he could act, but I did manage to sleep through some of this movie. This is the only Star Trek movie I think is truly bad. But I will say Lawrence Luckinbill's Sybok is a performance from a much better movie.

Michael Schwarz

2024-03-19 17:55:30 +0000 UTC

Things I love in this movie: James Doohan Walter Koenig Nichelle Nichols George Takaei I think it’s great that even with such small screen time they get they nail the characters and scenes they’re in. Especially “Captain Chekov” Things I hate: The elevator scene where they pass how many decks all out of order 🙈 Just felt like rushed editing (which in fairness it probably was)

Andrew Duffy

2024-03-19 17:55:15 +0000 UTC

Casting notes: The “God” entity was played by George Murdock, whom you’ll remember as Dr. Salik in Battlestar Galactica. J’onn (the bald guy with terrible teeth who joins Sybok at the beginning) was Rex Holman, who played Morgan Earp in “Spectre of the Gun.” Never knew Spock’s Vulcan harp had an “out-of-tune banjo” setting.

James H

2024-03-19 17:54:37 +0000 UTC

In a way, this is the most TOS-esque of the movies. You've got a god-like being, a cult seeking Eden, the crew being brainwashed, Kirk being the only one able to resist the brainwashing through his own willpower - all things we saw multiple times in TOS. It might have made a good episode, but it doesn't make a great movie (though, like you, I don't think it's quite as bad as people say).

Steven Linden

2024-03-19 17:52:08 +0000 UTC

"What does God want with a starship?" He probably wants to warp speed outta this movie in any conceivable direction.

Juan Tutrífor

2024-03-19 17:50:36 +0000 UTC

I think you meant that Kirk did not know who Spock's parents were. Even though I always thought of that as a ridiculous plot hole. Captains always look over the personal file of potential first officers before he chooses one. I'm sure his security screen and background information in his file would have covered his parents.

Monty Crawford

2024-03-19 17:46:21 +0000 UTC

This movie suffers from the same thing as seasons 1 and 2 of TNG. Since there are so many other movies (or seasons) that are better, people rarely go back and watch this, further cementing in their minds that it's just a bad movie.

Nerd's Gold

2024-03-19 17:44:47 +0000 UTC

In fairness, "Stork" does look like a Vulcan name... ;-)

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-03-19 17:44:17 +0000 UTC

Larry Luckinbill is just so good in the role of Sybok, he takes a flawed concept like Spock's never-before-mentioned brother/cult leader and makes it sing. I believed this guy from minute one as an emotive Vulcan, and as a cult leader, and ultimately as a sympathetic antagonist whose road to hell is paved with good intentions. Aside from the character moments, Sybok is the best thing in the film for me and I wish he had continued to be a recurring presence in Trek.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-03-19 17:41:22 +0000 UTC

As I stated before, this movie suffered from "Production Hell". But I still enjoyed it. Fun Fact: Sean Connery was approached to play Sybok but turned it down because he had committed to Indiana Jones and the last Crusade.

Monty Crawford

2024-03-19 17:40:50 +0000 UTC

Did he construct a rudimentary laithe to beat it?

Juan Tutrífor

2024-03-19 17:32:56 +0000 UTC

"Kirk wasn't even aware that Spock had parents when he first met them." Well where did he think Spock came from, then? :-D

Ian Westcott

2024-03-19 17:32:29 +0000 UTC

Would be interesting to hear Josh and Alex’s take on the special effects. They changed effects houses this time (Harve Bennett and Ralph Winter felt that for the money being charged ILM were too busy and they were only going to get their B or C team). The effects were criticised at the time but viewing them 35 years later they don’t seem anywhere near as bad.

Jon1701

2024-03-19 17:31:29 +0000 UTC

I really didn't like this movie, especially when it came out. But watching it now... it's okay. I think the humor rubbed me the wrong way (compared to ST4's humor), it tried pairing a "serious" plot with a totally non-serious approach to its detriment, and the Klingon boy is the least credible or memorable villain in the series. Especially in the dialogue, the writing doesn't feel that true to the characters, particularly Kirk, which is strange when Shatner co-wrote it. But it's not as bad as I remembered it.

Ian Westcott

2024-03-19 17:30:28 +0000 UTC

Fun fact: the TNG sets were built out of the TOS movie sets. So when ST5 was shot during the TNG era, they had to in turn use the TNG TV sets. I'm sure you noticed that the film used some of the TNG sets essentially unmodified, such as some of the corridors. Of course they still built some sets specifically for the film.

Adam Zey

2024-03-19 17:30:13 +0000 UTC

Seriously, what does god need with a starship? Final Frontier felt rushed, Shatner takes up way too much of the spotlight and it has lackluster effects, but ya know what it’s okay. I understand the hate and everything but at the end of the day it’s still Star Trek, and it’s a bit of TOS style fun with our crew.

Gregory

2024-03-19 17:27:52 +0000 UTC

absolutely.

Ca$hWednesday

2024-03-19 17:25:04 +0000 UTC

I kind of like the rock monster!

Ca$hWednesday

2024-03-19 17:24:44 +0000 UTC

I like Sybok, too! I wouldn't go so far as to say he is the best antagonist but he is certainly the most interesting.

Captain Proton

2024-03-19 17:23:10 +0000 UTC

I was 19 when I saw in 1989. Hated it for 35 years until watching it with you guys. You didn't love it but seeing it "with" you allowed me to lose a ton of baggage. Amazing.

Michael Nemo

2024-03-19 17:21:16 +0000 UTC

Curious if you picked up on the subpar special effects, even for their time. Star Wars had led to an explosion in effects driven pictures and 1989 was when demand surpassed availability of artists. You can see the compromises in the warp effects, the great barrier being basically just blue mist, “God”, etc.

Stuart Arbury

2024-03-19 17:21:07 +0000 UTC

Nichelle Nichols sung live when she performed Uhura’s fan dance, but they replaced her post-production. Nichols did a great job in the deleted footage, and they should have kept it. In fact she handed in her resignation in TOS to go and work in musical theatre. Martin Luther King happened to meet her that weekend and said Star Trek was the only TV show he allowed his children to stay up and watch, because it depicted a black woman as a quality person, not a maid or entertainer.

Smear Campaign

2024-03-19 17:20:22 +0000 UTC

Very good point

Collin Freeman

2024-03-19 17:19:10 +0000 UTC

Perhaps Shatner should have written a character-driven movie instead of an action-oriented movie. Star Trek V shines best in the scenes with the Big 3, especially the campfire scene and the scene where Sybok is trying to convert Spock & McCoy with the visions. Also less action would cut down on the lackluster VFX that this movie had.

Evan Guthrie

2024-03-19 17:14:32 +0000 UTC

Oh boy, well.... IMO, the worst movie Star Trek ever made. (Though not the one I dislike the most, we'll get to that later) It is not without it's redeemable qualities though. That scene with Sybok and Bones going through his trauma with his dad is one of my favorite scenes Star Trek as a whole has ever done. Weird choices made by Shatner (the director), writing is off, jokes aren't as good as in IV, effects aren't as good as they were in the previous movies. Just really muddled in whatever it was trying to do. Sybok's existence doesn't bother me at all, really. I know that bothers some. Kirk wasn't even aware that Spock had parents when he first met them. For being Kirk's BFF, Spock doesn't tell him shit. Question to ponder for the rest of time; "What does God need with a Starship?"

Elway Simpson

2024-03-19 17:14:05 +0000 UTC

And, of course, it couldn't get a few more passes on the screenplay because of the writers' strike.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-03-19 17:11:23 +0000 UTC

Why not?

Column Meanie

2024-03-19 17:10:52 +0000 UTC

The score throughout the film is chef's kiss. Luckinbill's performance and the score are the two most acclaimed aspects of the film.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-03-19 17:09:25 +0000 UTC

Although I think Star Trek V is the worst of the six TOS-era films (but not the worst Star Trek film overall), I do not think it deserves its reputation among the worst films ever. Rather, it's more "incompetent" than anything else, primarily the result of Lucasfilm being unable to commit to the effects in time for the film's release and a lesser effects-house taking over. I think the performances are decent, and many story elements do work well (especially the scene between McCoy and his father). I just think it needed more time and a few more passes on the screenplay to really come together. Finally, other than a tendency to not quite get enough coverage (which leads to some bizarre continuity errors), Shatner's direction is not actually that bad; I just think his ego probably stopped someone more experienced (cough Nimoy cough) from advising him.

Erik Grebner

2024-03-19 17:08:56 +0000 UTC

Unpopular opinion: I love this movie. It's the most TOS of the TOS films, featuring a God-alien, and some of the best Big Three moments. All the ensemble get stuff to do (though the Uhura-Scotty pairing is outta left field). I love the theme that we need even our shady pasts to be our true selves. True we're saving money using the TNG sets, but dang it, I like anyway!

Alexander McKechnie

2024-03-19 17:08:45 +0000 UTC

Going from Up The Long Ladder straight to this, it's not as bad as I remembered. Interesting to see the TNG sets being reused though!

SinocTheHodgeheg

2024-03-19 17:08:29 +0000 UTC

I love this movie for what it is: a Star Trek movie and a second to last chance to see all these beloved characters together on an adventure. Pros: cinematography is top notch in places, Jerry Goldsmith’s score soars, De Kelley’s acting in the McCoy’s father scene, the very underrated performance by Lawrence Luckinbill (Lucille Ball’s son-in-law), and of course the wonderful moments of the trio. The cons: the special effects which, due to unavailability of ILM, were god-awful at times, especially compared to the other films, and the climax suffers from behind the scenes drama of them running out of money to finish the way it was supposed to. Check out other fan made effects that show how great this film could have looked (and still could if given a proper director’s cut ala TMP). And the script doesn’t serve the story very well. Still, TFF is one of the most epic and ambitious of the films and doesn’t deserve the hate it gets

Column Meanie

2024-03-19 17:08:24 +0000 UTC

Shatner and Nimoy had equal contract clauses, so he was entitled to direct. However, the studio probably should have told him that he could direct, if he didn't act in the movie. They really just needed a way better story idea.

Chtphr Rrr

2024-03-19 17:08:06 +0000 UTC

Was it really necessary to have 2 (!!!) scenes of "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"?

KatWithAttitude

2024-03-19 17:08:00 +0000 UTC

Even though it's a bit of a mess, it's still better than Up the Long Ladder. Look up the "rock monster" Kirk was supposed to fight at the end. It's amusing just how bad the design and execution was. Very glad they dropped it, though there's test footage.

THE LORE!!!

2024-03-19 17:07:21 +0000 UTC

What a goofy movie. So Bones has met Apollo and so many other "gods" but he is now convinced this bearded laser show guy is "the Almighty?" Come on, now. At least he got a good scene with his dad.

Captain Proton

2024-03-19 17:06:22 +0000 UTC

Fun fact: Laurence Luckinbill (Sybok), who is still living at the age of 89, is the son-in-law of Lucille Ball and the maternal uncle of Lana and Lilly Wachowski.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-03-19 17:06:21 +0000 UTC

This movie takes a lot of heat for its less than stellar special effects and plot hole weaknesses. One thing William Shatner does nail however, is the friendship between himself, Spock and McCoy. It's the best we see from the series and from the films. Sybok is a fascinating character and it's a shame we don't get to explore him further. The hint of romance between Uhura and Scotty is also something I wish we could see more of. It's not the best of the films but it's certainly isn't a waste of time either! The original story outline that William shatner created called for Spock and McCoy to ultimately betray him just like the rest of the crew with the exception of Scotty! Leonard nimoy and DeForest Kelly objected to this stating that their friendship was stronger than Sybok's ability to mask pain and therefore the story was rewritten!

Dale Gonyea

2024-03-19 17:05:55 +0000 UTC

Poor M’Ress hit some hard times after the five year mission! I kid but could you imagine if the cat dancer was her? The score as Kirk is climbing El Capitan is chef’s kiss

Dion James Pitman

2024-03-19 17:05:45 +0000 UTC

This movie is often unfairly maligned. Certainly it’s not perfect but has so many redeeming qualities. Originally Sybok was going to be offered to Sean Connery. Wonder if you guys think that casting would have improved the film?

Mister Hope

2024-03-19 17:05:30 +0000 UTC

I feel like the other Star Trek movies (real Star Trek, everything before 2005), have gotten better and more appreciated with time, while STV has done the opposite.

Edweirdo

2024-03-19 17:03:36 +0000 UTC

Some (interesting?) facts: -Originally, they wanted to cast Sean Connery as Sybok. Sha Ka Ree is a play on Sean Connery's name that survived from an earlier draft of the script. -The special effects look a bit rough in this one because ILM wasn't available this time around. They were busy with Ghostbusters II and Indiana Jones 3 -Sybok's lines with the god entity were sampled at the beginning of 2Pac's song 'Pain' on the 'Above the Rim' soundtrack.

Ca$hWednesday

2024-03-19 17:03:25 +0000 UTC

Not sure if this is a popular take, but I think Sybok is the best Star Trek movie antagonist (I won't call him a villain), or at least the most interesting one. While rightfully regarded as the weakest of the TOS films ,I still feel the scenes with the big 3 interacting together and the Sybok scenes still make it a fun watch.

Ca$hWednesday

2024-03-19 17:02:57 +0000 UTC

PATRON TAKES - Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

Comments

Ya it was more that the company they chose was not just inferior to ILM , it was a bit of a scam, caught way over their heads promising to be able to do things and then having no idea how to make it happen

It was more that Sarek was the ambassador to the Federation…a well known position. And walked on to the Enterprise during an important diplomatic mission…and only after introducing them in the shuttle bay, did Kirk and McCoy find out who Spocks parents where

She also was sleeping with Roddenberry who was in an open swinger relationship with Magel Barret. There where stories Nichelle Nichols was found hanging out nude on set or in his office as a surprise on his birthday during TOS as well as

I’m not sure what her decision about staying on in TOS 20 years before this movie, has to do with the music and her performance in this scene 🤷‍♂️

It wasnt even so much that ILM wasnt available. It was the effects company they chose where kinda scammers, in over their heads etc

It bombed in the theatre. It was a dud for most fans and critics

Thats quite a stretch to make about some numbers on a set in an effects scene and editing

Nah, Star Trek 3 was the closest

Maybe they consider the JJ movies "TOS" movies.

Well we finally have a toilet in space …. How many deck 😂

Absolutely not the worst Trek production during TNG season 2. But not good. Great one liners

I'm not watching this movie a second time. I paid for the theatrical experience and still feel ripped off.

Really, Kirk was just saving Sybok from pain overload. Very altruistic.

Joining the Alfa 177 canine from "The Enemy Within" and the targ from "Where No Man Has Gone Before"... we have the Nimbosian horse as the newest member of the 'Regular Animals with Fake Horns Glued to their Heads for Star Trek Club'

That...but also his son has been killed...a son he never really got to bond with. Kirk has a lot of pain.

You asked what Kirk’s secret pain would have been, Edith Keeler .

The movie that’s the closest in spirit to the tv series

Where's the movie discussion?

LOL. If you'll forgive me, I'll make use of your movie hybrid title.

"There is the classic story of shatner going off on a fan at a convention back in the 70’s suggesting that the fan who had asked about the star date of a given episode told the fan to grow up and move out of their parents basement." That was an SNL skit from 1986.

Star Trek V is the Shatneriest of all Shatner films.

were the films dubbed or played in english? when a film is dubbed do they always use the same voice actor for the same character in each movie? ie is the voice over person who does kirk in star trek 1 the same person who does kirk in each of the star trek movies?

I think you can argue the first one, Motion Picture?

This movie like season 2 of TNG are both victims of the 1988 writers strike.

I’d run up a mountain to watch Nichelle Nicols do that fan dance and I don’t even bat for that team.

In Bones' defense, maybe you just had to be there :)

Nichelle Nichols said it did, many, many, many times. Phillip said it didn't, so I'll be really interested to see the evidence disproving the story.

I hate this movie less than I used to. But it still sits at the bottom of my tier list when it comes to the movies, right down there next to the motion picture.

It has it's moments--"What does God need with a starship?"--but the overall story feels like more like a piece of fan fiction than an actual Star Trek movie (right down to the surprise main character sibling).

It’s not the worst, it’s just that it plays more like a t.v. movie. There are a few nice character moments with the “big three”, but the comedy doesn’t work for me. Making Scotty an idiot is bad, but making the Enterprise a malfunctioning piece of junk just seems disrespectful.

Which is the worst?

I can actually forgive Scotty acting a bit older and "not as with the programme" because I feel it in my older age too.

I just want his New Kidney pills!

Perhaps the weakest Star Trek TOS film but not unenjoyable. There's a lot of fun stuff but also a lot of really weird. Why does the voyager scream?

It always bothered me that Uhura, Sulu and Chekhov switched sides so easily. Are we to believe that all it took was a quick mind-meld-aided psychotherapy session for them to abandon their principles, commit mutiny and blindly follow Syboc? This feels like a disservice to these beloved characters.

Not the best TOS movie but not the worst. It still felt very TOS.

And that isn’t in character too? 🤭

I agree. It struck me as very TOS. Not the best TOS, but very TOS

City in the Edge of Spock's Brain

SEVERAL long island ice teas....and you managed to get into the theater without help? You must tell me how to gain this power.

I did always like the scene where the characters pain is shown...that was powerful. Bones pain is a tough watch...especially for anyone whose had a parent die. I always though Sarak called baby Spock "sub hunan". But apparently he says "so human". Which is maybe worse for a Vulcan especially Sarak.

I doubt Bill remembered that moment. Any time he's asked what his favorite episode is he says "City on the Hill" or something utterly wrong.

Some really great scenes in a not great Trek movie. As others mentioned...turning Scotty into a straight up buffoon is a bit annoying. Apparently the head bump/knock out was Shatner's doing and Doohan wasn't happy?

This movie is awful, except for two things: the scene where Sybok takes Kirk/Spock/McCoy's pain is fantastic, and "What does God need with a starship?" is one of my favorite lines from all of Star Trek.

Lucasfilm's A, B. and C teams were otherwise engaged. According to Shatner, the D team was not very good. Couldn't br worse than the company he hired.

The weakest of the six. Scotty getting conked out by his own ship is just wrong. The three singing was just too saccharine for my tastes. 10 yr olds don't sing that song, why are they?

This movie would be better remembered if ILM had been able to do the effects. The poor effects just add one more reason to pile on to the movie and label it as bad. With ILM, the movie becomes less "bad" and more "that weird one Shatner made".

As per usual: you enjoyed it more than I thought you would and I enjoyed it more than I remember. Still hokey and a little embarrassing for some of our fav characters (like Scotty banging his head) -but some great character development scenes in there that I can appreciate more now that I am older.

At the time 'TFF' was released, the odd-numbered TOS film negative reaction started. This unfortunately skewered 'TSFS' in between TMP and TFF to make this rule of thumb work.

Perhaps being an MST3K fan I'm influenced by the song being in ""Manos" The Hands of Fate."

If you were trapped living in the wasteland on Nimbus III, and the next most attractive person to you is a weird cat lady or that bald toothless dude from the beginning, you too will run up a sand dune at night to watch Nichelle Nichols dance naked. Facts.

That sounds like a once in a lifetime experience. Thsnks for sharing. Trekkies are a big family. I really felt that at the Vegas convention my first time 🥰

I think Shatner specifically wanted a greater emphasis on action/physicality. Paramount probably thought that approach might bring in a larger audience than usual (and balance out the God storyline).

thoughts... hmm. - The space junk that the Klingons blow up is Pioneer 10. - Producer Harve Bennet was the Admiral Kirk that speaks to on the viewscreen

I think Paramount saw the ST TOS films as a relatively cheap to make series with a guaranteed revenue stream and would have committed to any script as long as a new film appeared within a set number of years.

Care to elaborate?

The Martin Luther King story is not true, it never happened.

The fan dance scene was dumb. I know Nichelle Nichols really pushed for it but somebody should have told her no. It didn't even make sense in the story, it was as subtle as a neon sign saying "Boobies and free alcohol beyond this dune, definitely not a trap!"

Easiest way to think of this movie: a fever dream caused by McCoy's beans.

Had he actually been referring to his brother it would’ve become our favorite movie

Laughed my ass off when you guys thought kirk was referring to his real brother but meant spock lol.

"What does God want with a starship?" He probably wants to warp speed outta this movie in any conceivable direction.

This movie suffers from the same thing as seasons 1 and 2 of TNG. Since there are so many other movies (or seasons) that are better, people rarely go back and watch this, further cementing in their minds that it's just a bad movie.

In fairness, "Stork" does look like a Vulcan name... ;-)

As I stated before, this movie suffered from "Production Hell". But I still enjoyed it. Fun Fact: Sean Connery was approached to play Sybok but turned it down because he had committed to Indiana Jones and the last Crusade.

Did he construct a rudimentary laithe to beat it?

"Kirk wasn't even aware that Spock had parents when he first met them." Well where did he think Spock came from, then? :-D

absolutely.

I kind of like the rock monster!

I like Sybok, too! I wouldn't go so far as to say he is the best antagonist but he is certainly the most interesting.

I was 19 when I saw in 1989. Hated it for 35 years until watching it with you guys. You didn't love it but seeing it "with" you allowed me to lose a ton of baggage. Amazing.

Very good point

And, of course, it couldn't get a few more passes on the screenplay because of the writers' strike.

Why not?

The score throughout the film is chef's kiss. Luckinbill's performance and the score are the two most acclaimed aspects of the film.

Going from Up The Long Ladder straight to this, it's not as bad as I remembered. Interesting to see the TNG sets being reused though!

Shatner and Nimoy had equal contract clauses, so he was entitled to direct. However, the studio probably should have told him that he could direct, if he didn't act in the movie. They really just needed a way better story idea.

Was it really necessary to have 2 (!!!) scenes of "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"?