FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E7 - Unnatural Selection
Added 2024-02-08 18:00:13 +0000 UTC
Comments
"To know him, is to love him, and to love him, is to know him. Those who knew him, loved him. Those who did not know him, loved him.....from afar"
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-08 08:32:36 +0000 UTCI am very happy for them that they love O'Brien as much as they do
Strife
2024-02-10 15:31:21 +0000 UTCThe only real redeeming quality of this episode is the major increase in screen time that O'Brien gets. If I'm not mistaken, I think this is also the first episode where they gave him a name, as they made a point of mentioning him by name multiple times in the episode. Also, you mentioned the clear reading of cue cards, and it reminded me of an excerpt from Patrick Stewart's recent memoir, in which he mentioned that at one point (it may have even been in this episode) he had a print out of Dr. Pulaski's lines taped to his forehead during a scene for her to read from. Just a fun fact.
Michael Mannisto
2024-02-10 09:10:53 +0000 UTCI always laugh at that scene where they like go looking for a hairbrush it’s like a panty raid. 😆
Philbot
2024-02-10 07:37:36 +0000 UTCOh so they could have just made a new Tasha and she’d be like “Hey what happened? Did I miss something?” And they’d be like “You died like 30 minutes ago, but thankfully because transporters are just murder machines we made a new you.”
Philbot
2024-02-10 07:36:43 +0000 UTCThis episode underwent a lot of rewriting to eliminate a pretty girl engineer that the guys in the crew were tripping over. She was replaced with Colm Meany, who has made appearences in TNG going all the way back to the pilot. But until this episode was referred to by his station, we hear his name for the first time.
Mike Rogers
2024-02-10 05:06:29 +0000 UTCYea, it’s great. It’s like adding a hot cinnamon taste to the cider.
startrekiborg
2024-02-10 01:17:08 +0000 UTCBetter get used to that understated score...
Nolan
2024-02-09 22:24:01 +0000 UTCThat sounds awesome. Makes me wish I still drank. Or how about adding a little to a skillet full of slices apples, butter and a bit of brown sugar?
David Scudder
2024-02-09 21:05:08 +0000 UTCWouldn’t it be funny if they found a stash of AI generated images of Picard ass naked in fetish gear in Pulaski’s drawers? Lol!
Rich Cirivilleri
2024-02-09 18:26:28 +0000 UTCI just watch that one last night. Classic!
Rich Cirivilleri
2024-02-09 18:23:52 +0000 UTCThe big, fancy doors like for shuttle bays and holodecks are airtight.
Jovet
2024-02-09 17:17:56 +0000 UTCThey should just be able to close doors. Everything should be airtight.
Philbot
2024-02-09 16:52:35 +0000 UTCIt is an established fact, acknowledged on the Memory Alpha wiki, that Muldaur used cue cards for this episode. I wonder whether Alex and Josh have seen any of Marlon Brando's late career performances. At some point he started using cue cards as an acting technique, so that the dialogue would sound fresher than if he had memorized it. He would have the lines taped in hidden places all around the set. I think this worked very well for him. See, for example, his superb performance of Jor-El's monologue to baby Kal-El in the first Christopher Reeve Superman movie, culminating at around 17:26 with the words "This is all I... all I can send you... Kal-El." The cue cards are presumably somewhere on the rim of Kal-El's escape capsule, and the naturalness and beauty of Brando's delivery is likely due to this technique. I once wrote a Superman fanfic in which I paid tribute to this aspect of Brando's portrayal by writing (from the POV of Jor-El's wife, Lara), "Jor-El, with his unexpectedly soft and gentle voice, always sounding as though he had just discovered the very words of the Kryptonian language, making the most ordinary statement sound new and beautiful."
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-09 15:58:32 +0000 UTCWatch Christian Nolan's movie "The Prestige" (2006) with Christian Bale, Hugh Jackman, Scarlett Johannson, Michael Caine, Andy Serkis and David Bowie. He thought about that too.
Sam Langanke
2024-02-09 13:38:23 +0000 UTCLOL!
DataDroid
2024-02-09 12:36:53 +0000 UTCEdit: He's not, the pips are just misleading. The production team successfully got me confused there :D You're totally right Timothy
DataDroid
2024-02-09 12:32:42 +0000 UTCOh I never thought about it that way. And they're always calling him Chief and not Lt. Makes more sense that way, I'm with you now.
DataDroid
2024-02-09 12:28:23 +0000 UTCPicard seemed almost desperate to save her! That doesn't quite jive with his personality or command style, in my book, but I'll let it pass.
Jovet
2024-02-09 10:03:35 +0000 UTCThey could do that. The only thing preventing that is plot armor.
Jovet
2024-02-09 10:02:43 +0000 UTCThe point is that they can seal off parts of the ship but only so long as containment forcefields are maintained. They've obviously watched their own show, because as soon as there's something like a forcefield needed, it is going to fail. Murphy's Law. (LOL!)
Jovet
2024-02-09 10:02:07 +0000 UTCI really appreciate *good* continuity in a show like this. It can't be taken for granted.
Jovet
2024-02-09 09:58:22 +0000 UTC@Philbot "SHŌ-săv" or "SHŌ-sŭv" are pretty close, I think. One of the Irish equivalents of my given name, Joseph.
Jovet
2024-02-09 09:52:29 +0000 UTCI liked this one more than most of them. A character was in actual jeopardy and the characters conducted themselves like they cared about the situation.
Ken R
2024-02-09 09:24:31 +0000 UTCPeople who think that the transporter is a murder machine that destroys you on one end and rebuilds you on the other side our wrong. If they are just rebuilding people then they could use a stored pattern to whip up another Tasha.
Philbot
2024-02-09 08:53:59 +0000 UTCShosham?
Philbot
2024-02-09 08:35:01 +0000 UTCWhat I always thought was weird about Virus episodes is can’t they seal off parts of the ship? Shouldn’t every room be airtight in case of a hull breach or something. It seems weird they can’t quarantine sick bay or some lab as opposed to using a shuttle as a mobile lab.
Philbot
2024-02-09 08:22:28 +0000 UTCIt's been mentioned, and it's also been mentioned that "Special Guest Star" was more prestigious than being watered down in the main credits.
Jovet
2024-02-09 08:11:06 +0000 UTC@DataDroid Yeah, the production team never figured out what to do with enlisted collars, did they? @Narnman I don't think so. Wesley at this point is just an acting ensign, basically an honorary title. So, while he has some privileges, he's not in Star Fleet nor deserving of a real uniform and he isn't eligible for promotion or advancement.
Jovet
2024-02-09 08:09:22 +0000 UTCunfortunately i think they talked over the nice bits between her and data and didnt fully hear what she was saying to him, especially the 'goodbye' part
Narnman
2024-02-09 08:05:08 +0000 UTCwesley crusher outranks chief o'brien - oh the shame
Narnman
2024-02-09 08:03:22 +0000 UTCthey seem to have watched it. i think its the best episode of this season
Narnman
2024-02-09 08:02:34 +0000 UTCwith those few hints i can see why they might have thought pulaski might have died in this episode.
Narnman
2024-02-09 08:01:43 +0000 UTCPips show him as Lt, but shhh ;)
DataDroid
2024-02-09 07:57:16 +0000 UTCAnd then that little grin from Data is gold
DataDroid
2024-02-09 07:52:23 +0000 UTCAccording to the pips at his collar he's a Lt. But I know where you're getting at ;)
DataDroid
2024-02-09 07:51:07 +0000 UTCI too thought that was weird
DataDroid
2024-02-09 07:49:26 +0000 UTCRandom thought re: Picard and Troi’s conversation.. “I’ve never met a more dedicated physician” , should have been in front of Wesley and everyone’s like “AWKWARD”
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-09 06:42:58 +0000 UTCO'Brien is deserving of respect. Fun fact, he isn't a commissioned officer. He's a senior NCO.
Timothy Keck
2024-02-09 05:36:46 +0000 UTCI don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet. Muldaur was offered a spot in the main credits, but requested the guest star status. I've never seen a stated reason why exactly, but maybe she was apprehensive of taking Gates' place in the credits. (That's speculation on my part)
tyranusfan
2024-02-09 04:36:39 +0000 UTCHe also mentioned that he would make a point of looking away from the camera during those scenes, so that he could dub it later if he messed up.
tyranusfan
2024-02-09 04:34:14 +0000 UTCFor the record O’Brien’s actor’s name is pronounced Col-um. At least that’s how Armin Shimerman says it. You know him as Letek the Ferengi in The Last Outpost and The jump scare box face in Haven.
Eric Bundy
2024-02-09 04:29:04 +0000 UTC@startrekiborg I don't drink anymore and I don't think I've ever had fireball, but that sounds tasty to me!
Jovet
2024-02-09 04:17:58 +0000 UTCInteresting that you guys thought they may have been reading off a cue card in some scenes; I never got that impression myself, and in fact I doubt they would use cue cards on a pre-recorded show like Trek (as opposed to live TV). While I agree that the opening scene with Picard evaluating Pulaski's performance was clearly written to tie in with her spotlight in this story, it never really stood out to me as obviously so, since it would be perfectly normal for a Starfleet captain to regularly conduct crew evaluations, especially for a new senior officer who he already has some doubts about. Of course, my suspension of disbelief has always been easy when it comes to Trek, and sci-fi in general, so I'm more often willing to overlook some degree of writing or dramatic cliche in favor of being immersed in the fictional world. I disagree that Pulaski still views Data as merely a machine by this point, and I think her continued occasional jabs at him are more a case of old habits dying hard; she appears to be the type of person who values professional detachment over overt sentiment, at least when it comes to relating to her fellow crewmates (particularly Data and Picard). Her scene towards the end of saying goodbye to Data when he must beam back to the ship and leave her at the station seemed to show genuine regret that he couldn't stay, with Data likewise seeming to display a hint of emotion. I also found the genetic engineering side of the story more interesting than most people seem to; while Federation experimentation in this field would seem to be questionable given past incidents with Khan and so forth, the story still makes a good case for why certain types of genetic research, even on humans, would still be necessary and beneficial while also clearly demonstrating the dangers of taking such research too far 🖖
Patrick47
2024-02-09 03:27:51 +0000 UTCReally? I love Fireball and never thought of that. I generally just add a shot to hard apple cider.
startrekiborg
2024-02-09 03:22:56 +0000 UTC28:55 "Commander Data... has a way with computers."
Jovet
2024-02-09 02:09:47 +0000 UTCYou guys are 100% right about the little building blocks aspect of this series as a whole.
Just another Red Shirt
2024-02-09 02:09:36 +0000 UTC26:30 Yeah, there's a reason that wasn't ever brought up. It would never have been filmed!
Jovet
2024-02-09 02:06:43 +0000 UTC18:50 Transporter Chief Miles O'Brian is a distinctive character. He is NOT an officer, he's an enlisted man. "Chief" in his title refers to some kind of equivalent of chief petty officer. Due to his being a non-commissioned crewman, he is outranked by even an ensign. Very few enlisted personnel are shown on Star Trek, and he's the most visible in the classic franchise.
Jovet
2024-02-09 02:02:08 +0000 UTCSeason 4 Episode 12 Is my favorite. TNG episode.
Just another Red Shirt
2024-02-09 01:56:00 +0000 UTC16:08 Technobabble clarification: The Transporter Trace is the molecular/biological record of what was transported. They had hoped to use the Doctor's trace history to fix her DNA damage, but they had to resort to the DNA in the hair follicle as they did not have a copy of any transporter trace of hers. Also, "technobabble" is a term the crew use(d) to describe the scientific or technological terms or words that have to be invented and delivered. Such terms, generally speaking, are going to sound like gibberish to non-nerds, non-fans.
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:55:38 +0000 UTCI do wish they would discuss each episode right after watching it, before watching anything else.
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:52:44 +0000 UTCNope. Doctor Pulaski! LOL!
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:51:25 +0000 UTCR.I.P. ❤️James Becker❤️
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:50:22 +0000 UTCA LOT of her lines sound overdubbed to me, across many episodes.
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:46:44 +0000 UTC4:35 That's a very good point. Suspension of Disbelief is a very delicate thing. For me, it's plot logic and plot armors that jump out at me. Second is established characters acting out of character.
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:44:09 +0000 UTC3:05 Oh yeah. It's kinda sloppy setup writing. "What do you think of Pulaski's judgement?" *five minutes later—Pulaski making a life/death judgement*
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:41:58 +0000 UTCIrish is such a fun language. I might change my name to Seosamh.
Jovet
2024-02-09 01:40:21 +0000 UTCNot really a big surprise. A Klingon AND Riker episode.
Sam Langanke
2024-02-09 01:10:36 +0000 UTCDid you just give us a clue as to what you felt about the next episode! SPOILERS?!
Ee'char
2024-02-09 00:59:06 +0000 UTCAlex, if you want to make it your trademark drinking always that certain beverage, you should ask the producing company for a marketing deal. I am from central Europe, never ever heard of this and now looked it up. So you are already effective as a an influencer. Yes, you can relate to me in your negotiations.
Sam Langanke
2024-02-08 23:42:00 +0000 UTC100% spot on about the Picard/Troi scene at the beginning. Nothing but a plot device to give the immediate notion that Picard and Pulaski don't gel. It's fine for that reason, but it's unfulfilling narratively. And they leaned so lightly into it over the aging plot that it never really came to an emotional climax. It was just window dressing. Meanwhile, our boy O'Brien pulling the weight.
StonyD
2024-02-08 22:25:41 +0000 UTCThis is the first time I've watched this one. For some reason I never watched, regardless of how big a Trek fan I am. For some reason I seem to remember the TV preview ads for this one just totally turned me off and I decided to skip it. My mistake. A lot better than I thought, was written very well.
Monty Crawford
2024-02-08 22:10:01 +0000 UTCI was corrected in my pronunciation because of Colm being interviewed by Zig and Zag of all creatures! 😂
Silk
2024-02-08 22:08:57 +0000 UTCWho hurt you?
Curzon Dax
2024-02-08 21:52:41 +0000 UTCHmmm. I listened to an interview with another Star Trek actor recently and he said he said that Colm Meaney was incredible with his line and could pick them up quickly.
Jon1701
2024-02-08 21:48:12 +0000 UTCI think Colm Meaney should become the unofficial mascot of the Target Audience channel... at least when it comes to their Star Trek content.
Darin Wagner
2024-02-08 21:10:30 +0000 UTCThere is a interview on YouTube (from some Irish or English TV show) where Colm talks about remembering the technobabble. He says he used cards but he would put them on the transporter control area or inside a open wall when his character was fixing something inside it. Basically he just says because of the nature of his characters job (either working on something inside something or controlling the transporter) it was easier for him to do than some of the other actors.
Greg Quinn
2024-02-08 20:58:08 +0000 UTCThe last scene of this episode cemented the late USS Lantree in my personal head canon as a memorable ship. It reminded me of when the US Navy has had to scuttle ships in their own fleet in the past. I also liked the stripped-down Miranda class model. It made sense since it had apparently been reclassified as a supply ship by the TNG era.
Darin Wagner
2024-02-08 20:57:15 +0000 UTCYou are right to get hyped about O'Brien, he's a great character. Can't wait for you guys to get to know him.
THE LORE!!!
2024-02-08 20:53:09 +0000 UTCTNG employed a lot of the same extras and background actors throughout the series and several get names as we go along - just as happened in TOS. You’ll realise this as you see more episodes and some of them start to get lines. One of the regular extras Guy Vardaman was Data’s body double and also whenever there’s a close shot of Data’s hands it’s the double, as he had better looking hands than Brent Spiner. Vardaman was a guest at several conventions and gave a good talk about how they filmed TNG, how much extras and doubles were used to keep up the pace of filming.
Paul Rymer
2024-02-08 20:47:58 +0000 UTCGotta drizzle that fireball over some vanilla ice cream.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-02-08 20:08:39 +0000 UTCI called him “comb” for years. There are also several other actors I had wrong for a long time, but they haven’t appeared yet. :)
John M.
2024-02-08 19:12:25 +0000 UTCi really like the thoughtful final log of the episode done by pulaski when they're gonna blow up the ship
Narnman
2024-02-08 19:09:39 +0000 UTCI'm Irish. Like Spanish, Gealic has some unpredictable sounds when certain letters are adjacent. Cillian is 'Killian' for example. And even British people can't predict how many of our towns are pronounced.
Numinous2019
2024-02-08 19:09:02 +0000 UTCI love Diana Muldaur but generally feel she was never well served by the technobabble on TNG. She’s more of a straight dramatic actress.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-08 18:37:55 +0000 UTCNO! Fireball rules! Crunchtime! 1....2.....3.....4.....
StonyD
2024-02-08 18:35:07 +0000 UTCThere’s an episode, one of my top 5, where the guest reads a lot of lines off of cards. Going to remember to see if you notice. Also, Obrien’s actor’s name is closer to column, not comb.
John M.
2024-02-08 18:21:46 +0000 UTCJaeger ❤️
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-08 18:20:03 +0000 UTCThere’s other “good” drinks, but there aren’t better drinks 🔥
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-08 18:14:05 +0000 UTCDo we need to have a talk about Fireball... There are other... good drinks.
Curzon Dax
2024-02-08 18:10:52 +0000 UTC
