PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG - Season 2 Episode 4

Hell. No.

Steven Johnson

Yeah, the way they talk about him is more as a dashing, brash... Swashbuckler. Mudd was funny, but at the end of the day he was a swindling scumbag.

Steven Johnson

Good humor is universal and timeless.

Steven Johnson

Agreed!

Steven Johnson

"If God were a villain, he'd be me."

Steven Johnson

He would have made a good Dash Rendar.

Steven Johnson

The dénouement is great! ... Because the episode is over!

Steven Johnson

What if Mudd was made of a stick of butter.

Steven Johnson

By "Data" you mean "Brent" because Brent is absolutely breaking character and making fun of Joe. And yeah, i'm not sure if that's a joke or a riddle.. It could be a sleep aid.

Steven Johnson

Actually i'd love to hear Worf's take on comedy.

Steven Johnson

Data should have asked Picard which comedian he should have the Holodeck recreate.

Anthony Bernacchi

At this stage I'm nervous about saying anything at all about what could possibly happen in TNG. I think even casting decisions fall into spoiler territory. Example: how long will any actor remain in the show, or will a guest star re-appear in later seasons.

Numinous2019

Okona is honestly the most annoying person in trek I would take 10 Wesleys over one okana, he's not funny, everyone thinks he's Awsome for no reason, hes a slimy little shit head. but the worst part of all is this episode is not funny. the only good parts (if you can call them that are data making fun of Joe Piscopo. fun fact: the joke that whoopi makes about a droid and annoyed was not in the scrip. that joke was even worse, its been years and I still dont understand what the joke is meant to be. Here is the quote from the original scrip "Whoa, slow down. Now Data, there's just you and me here and nobody is going to know what we talked about. My job here places me under some obligations, like a vow of secrecy. I can't repeat anything I hear or see. Now the obligation of the patron is to tell the truth, otherwise I'm being placed under a commitment to keep a secret about "nothing." That's not fair. It's called wasted honor. You understand?"

kinky28

I think one of the funniest lines in all of Star Trek (there's another like this one, but it's in the 5th movie which you haven't seen yet), is Guinan's line to The Comic [Joe Piscapo] backstage, as Data is performing is last stand-up act. It's a "throw away line" that is often missed, but it is SO interesting...... The fact that Whoopi Goldberg made a living as a stand-up comedian made it more poignant. In the scene, she turns to Piscapo and says, "You did this for a living?" ..............LOL

Rhett Coates

Sure, but he was asked to be that for this episode. What if he was asked to play a different sort of character? I didn't think the guy who twerked wearing skin-tight booty-shorts in Ali G would be the best choice for Tywin Lannister, but Charles Dance has some range.

Ian Westcott

Yeah, at least Lewis is considered a genius somewhere, even if it is France.

James H

At least there's a chance that in the 24th century, someone would have heard of Jerry Lewis. The idea that Joe Piscopo is the funniest comedian the computer could come up with is as lame as Ambu-Jitsu being the future of martial arts.

Ian Westcott

Piscopo had a comedic prime?

Ian Westcott

I think he's supposed to be more of a Han Solo type rogue with a heart of gold.

Ian Westcott

Okona himself is surprisingly fine, what really sinks this episode is Jerry Lewis was signed to play the comic, but he had to drop out due to a scheduling conflict, so they brought in the guy who few people thought was funny in the 1980s, and who NO ONE thinks is funny today: Joe Piscopo. The "comedy" is really cringy, and while Data is supposed to be cringy, I just want to fast forward through all of Piscopo's bits. He was known at the time for being not-funny during SNL's dark age. He's now known for unfunny stand-up at MyPillow guy Mike Lindell's political rallies. I'd say he's fallen far, but he never climbed particularly high in the first place.

Ian Westcott

You are missing the most interesting part of that alternate universe where Frakes is the Rocketeer

Strife

Because Alex has watched Red Letter Media videos about Star Trek in the past, I think he may know more than Josh about some aspects of TNG (as with Tasha's death last season). It would be interesting for Josh to answer this question, though, or for them to answer jointly.

Anthony Bernacchi

I was watching it as it first aired too, but somehow I missed it then. Maybe there was a power failure or something, I don't know. I kept missing it every time there was a rerun. Not really sure how. I don't even remember how I finally did see it.

KatWithAttitude

Thadiun Okona actor Billy Campbell was "almost" William Riker (it was down to Campbell and Frakes at the end...). So alternate universe with Campbell as Riker? How do you see that?

Greg Quinn

Slim pickings, I know. But there must be someone on the ship who has a sense of humor.

Phillip Grischa

Could be a generational thing.

tyranusfan

this episode is awful it felt like a soap opera especially the ending dispute being settled also as i recall the very sped up joke by joe piscopo that you cannot hear is a racial joke something about jews and the irish. i cant quite remember

Narnman

This is no doubt an attempt to get TNG their own Harry Mudd style character, it didn't pan out. I thought the actor was good. Look for Teri Hatcher as the only time you'll see her as a transporter operator, as the first of the female officers the guy plows through on the ship. Joe Piscabo (the comic) was not far from his stint on SNL when he was on. The Data learning to be funny plot was amusing. The girl playing the one supposedly knocked up by Okana was probably one of the worst actresses ever on TNG. A fair episode.

Mike Rogers

She would have, but most of her scenes were cut.

KatWithAttitude

😝

Silk

I just discovered that word "dénouement" today. Bought the entire TNG Blu-ray box set in order to watch along with the guys, and happened to stumble across a certain poetry reading. Could never understand what Riker had "anticipated" until I watched it with subtitles lol

Ee'char

You mean Margot Kidder?

Jovet

Who would you suggest? Worf?

Jovet

Okona's ego doesn't approach anywhere near Kirk's. Okona is much more likable.

Jovet

That makes comparing them pretty invalid.

Jovet

Brings Archer's "Just the Tip!" jokes into clear focus.

Jovet

It's the embodiment of fan divisiveness!

Jovet

I think its lighthearted nature and its dénouement are well done.

Jovet

Okona never approached the moral ....slipperyness... that Mudd had.

Jovet

I'm a person who can laugh about the stupidest sketches and flattest jokes and puns, I find them hilarous. I don't care much for the Okona story line, I'm just here for all the Data tries to understand humor part. It's well done and I'm here for it.

DataDroid

Not too memorable. Oh look, it’s Lois Lane!

Silk

So, um... My feeling is this one may not land so well for you two. The Okona stuff is fine and dandy, but easily forgettable, not to mention cliche and sexist as all hell. The Data/Guinan scenes are superb, and Whoopi brings her a-game to the comedy (even if the comedy is so badly written), and there is some amusement to be found in the comedy club scenes. But I feel putting Guinan in a 'comedy' episode is lazy... 'We have Whoopi Goldberg, comedy film superstar, award-nominated actress, let's do comedy with here.' Yawn.

Andy Frankham-Allen

Hey, Okona always struck me as "What if Harry Mudd was highly attractive?"

Andreas Schmitt

Just as a sidenote, when I was 16 years old, my local Library got the entire TOS collection on VHS, And I finally watched the menagerie as a single seating movie

Thicketdweller

I saw all of the next generation episodes as they aired in order, However, being that I was born the same year that the original Star Trek series came on, I started watching it when I was about four years old and didn’t see the final episode of the series of Star Trek until I was 15 And I did not see any of the episodes anywhere close to in production or air date order In fact, it took almost 3 years for me to see the second half of the menagerie due to the way the syndication was shuffled in my local television market

Thicketdweller

The best thing Joe Piscopo did after Saturday Night Live was the movie Scrooge with Bill Murray, otherwise uneventful career and lots of bad beer commercials

Thicketdweller

Or at least become one of Futurama’s head in a jar

Thicketdweller

I like Guinan as a character but Data should have asked someone else for advice on being funny.

Phillip Grischa

More like Outrageously bad. This guy is no Han Solo and he's no comedian. A walking stereotype poorly portrayed with an intentionally cringe inducing B plot that does the very thing it's about: trying too hard to be funny. "I, Mudd" it ain't. I didn't even realize Teri Hatcher was in this either.. oh well, not Outrageous, but at least Spectacular.

Nolan

What do you guys know in the most general terms about seasons 2 to 7 of TNG. For TOS you recognised the name Kahn and knew Klingons were featured. Do you recognise anything about S2 to S7 from popular culture references? This could help in avoiding innocent spoilers in comments.

Numinous2019

Oh yeah, this is the one with Teri Hatcher and that guy who looks like Dash Rendar from Shadows of the Empire. That's about all I can really say for this one.

Ca$hWednesday

With all of the powerful aliens the Enterprise encounters over the years, I love them encountering a ship that is a completely inconsequential threat.

KMScudder

"You spoiled the joke. It could have been your timing." "My timing is digital." - Guinan and Data

Badger

I think he is more like Kirk than Riker...at least in the Libido Category! 😀

Duane Chancey

At the beginning of this Ep. it showed something I don't remember ever seeing before. Riker using the Terminal to his right and it can swivel left, and right I guess. This guy reminds me of Kirk...he's an even faster operator with the ladies than kirk and he didn't even make it out of the Transporter room without hitting on the Gorgeous Terri Hatcher! Also another Data wanting to be more human Ep. it was ok. Hey Alex, I bet Okona reminds you of Harry Mudd.....dresses like him but sure does not act like him. This probably will entertain you. That's it! 😀🖖

Duane Chancey

Me too but rewatching these episodes of TNG have made me realize how many parallels the two shows had.

Eric Bundy

Teri Hatcher should've got more screen time

James Bottas

Keep your eyes open when you watch this one. It has an unprecedented number of guest stars and one-off actors who later became known for other shows and movies.

Darin Wagner

While I appreciate the effort to put a new spin on the Mudd archetype, it doesn’t really work. For all his silliness Mudd was willing to do real harm to people for a buck. Okona is a little too nice to be a worthy adversary

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

This is what I watch Next Generation for, the Tip O'Neill jokes. We have no idea who that is these days but surely he'll be big again by the 24th century.

JD Nevesytrof

Yes, Piscopo wasn't that successful after SNL, but he was a good cast member on the show.

Joe Concepts

DATA IS RIGHT, "You're a droid and I'm annoyed," barely qualifies as a joke and is in fact not funny. And though Data's delivery isn't great the doctor's second opinion joke actually IS funny. Guinan has a terrible ear for jokes.

Joe Concepts

Opinion: Data's stand-up comic persona is very much grasping at straws. (As far as writing quality/direction)

Jovet

You were already ;-)

Jovet

Big question: Do you think Campbell could have made a better Riker than Frakes??

Jovet

This episode had a plot? I thought it was just a physical specimen showcase to try to entice women (and some of us men) to watch...

Jovet

Fun fact: Joe Piscopo was a former Saturday Night Live cast member and stayed on the show when all but two of the cast were fired at the end of Season 6. The other survivor was Eddie Murphy, the breakout star of that season. NBC may have kept Piscopo on SNL only because he and Murphy made an effective double act.

Anthony Bernacchi

seaQuest was a great show, but what's funny is that several of its characters were one-to-one counterparts of the TNG cast -- and they clearly modeled the ship's doctor on Pulaski, not Beverly.

Anthony Bernacchi

They wanted Jerry Lewis himself, but he had a scheduling conflict.

Anthony Bernacchi

I loved SeaQuest.

Dan Krantz

This episode features Billy Campbell playing a charming rouge, his standard role, a pre fame Teri Hatcher being a transporter chief and Rosalind Allen, best known for her future role on Seaquest DSV the Star Trek lite Submarine show. The plot itself is your typical star crossed lovers and the B plot with Data trying to be funny I feel has stronger legs than the A plot but Billy Campbell does his thing as Okona which helps save it a little.

Eric Bundy

I love the side story with Guinan trying to help Data understand comedy. And Data trying to do standup was amusing! Also I got Han Solo vibes from Okona.. a character that even Picard had a hard time figuring out what to do with him.

TalynStarburst

Hey it’s the Rocketeer, being an off brand Han Solo, and is Teri Hatcher? What is this episode?

Gregory

I love this episode. It's a great Data-centric episode that really starts to explore him and his desire to be human. And it's just a lot of fun. I seem to remember that the producers tried to get Jerry Lewis to play the comic but he was unavailable, so they got Joe Piscopo, who arguably does Jerry Lewis better than Jerry himself.

Dan Krantz

Totally forgettable episode. Data telling bad jokes with Joe Piscopo is bad enough, but then there’s the weird Han Solo style rogue character, the star crossed lovers plot, all seems like a half-baked idea that would have been better in TOS. The only memorable element comes when they keep mentioning that the other ships’ lasers wouldn’t have a prayer of damaging the Enterprise, which fuels many a Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate among fans to this day!

tyranusfan

I feel the whole comedy thing suffers from the fact that they chose to cast the unfunniest comedian of the Eighties (Joe Piscopo) and have him imitate the unfunniest comedian of the Fifties (Jerry Lewis).

James H

The main story is silly and cliche. It's the Data B plot that makes this a watchable episode. Brent Spiner is all in with Data and it seems like the show runners just gave him permission to go with it.

Nerd's Gold

"NO SPOILERS - If it is information regarding anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode, don't include it in your comment." "In the long run" clearly implies something that "does or does not happen after this episode"

Brendon Waldron

IMO they chose wisely. Campbell comes off as a romantic lead, not a First Officer.

StonyD

This is, honestly, a cringe episode for me. Joe Piscopo was already past his comedic prime when this episode aired. Didn't gel for me then, doesn't now.

StonyD

As it is my personal view, it doesn’t matter, but this is the second worst episode of TNG the worst being and episode to come. I feel that 99% of TNG is worthy if not excellent This one just rubbed me wrong. There are some excellent character moments but to me the story is flatter than paper

Thicketdweller

In response to your questions about Whoopi Goldberg from a previous episode: she was at the height of her movie career and back then she was huge, definitely bigger than any other actor on the show (won an Oscar in 1991). She was a fan of the original series, especially Nichelle Nichols and often quoted her as an inspiration for her acting career. She recalled seeing a TOS episode on TV as a child and shouting "Come here, mom, everybody, come quick, come quick, there's a black lady on television and she ain't no maid!". She didn't know that a new series is being worked on only after season 1 aired and she really wanted to join. She contacted LeVar Burton (Geordi) to talk to the producers on her behalf, but everyone thought it was a prank until her manager called Roddenberry directly. She originally wanted to be the new ship doctor, but the producers decided it would be difficult because of her busy schedule, so they created for her a new role of a bartender in the planned Ten-Forward.

snthd

Somehow this became the very last episode of TNG that I saw for the first time, and that was less than ten years ago. Not sure how I kept missing it in reruns. I found the "Data tries standup comedy" part extremely cringe, plus I have never been a fan of Joe Piscopo, even when he was a regular on Saturday Night Live.

KatWithAttitude

I think this episode is about 20% responsible for turning me gay. Wil Wheaton and a particularly cute rubber-clad genocidal enemy from a later season account for the other 80%.

Smear Campaign

True

Collin Freeman

This is a fun episode. Data is my favourite, so watching him learning about humour from former Saturday Night Live comedian Joe Piscopo is awesome.

Regan

The Rocketeer would be a great audience cut by the way

Jon1701

Billy Campbell was the first choice for Riker. In the final audition the studio head rejected him as “too soft” to be a first officer. He didn’t believe you would follow him into battle. So they went with their second choice - Jonathan Frakes. And the rest is history. 😉

Jon1701

This is one of the better episodes in my opinion. Little trivia....the guy playing Okona, Billy Campbell, was also considered for the part of William Riker.

Monty Crawford

I read that the guy playing Okona was one of the finalists to play Riker.

Timothy Hennon

CM Waters

Teri Hatcher - most famous for her roles as Lois Lane on the 90s TV series "Lois and Clark: The New adventures of Superman" and Susan Mayer on "Desperate Housewives" - has a small cameo as the transporter chief that Okona is...ahem...outrageous with. You may also remember her for her role as Sam's wife Donna from your reaction to "Quantum Leap". Unfortunately most of her scenes were actually cut, so she asked not to be listed in the credits.

Dion James Pitman

Only notable for featuring two guest actors that would go onto much better things - Teri Hatcher (Lois & Clark / Desperate Housewives) and Billy Campbell. This episode makes me cringe but has its fun character moments.

Paul Rymer

Surefire signs that Star Trek is taking over your life, #17: "'The Outrageous Okona' seems like a fine piece of writing and dramatic stylistics".

Ee'char

Prediction: This episode will continue a trend for you guys... main plot not that interesting, character moments awesome.

Andreas Schmitt

This is an episode. Watch The Rocketeer sometime. *passes out*

Steven Johnson

Some star power in this episode. A little cringe. But overall a fun one with some twists. The data stuff was meh to me. I felt like they were really trying to push Whoopi and using comedy was just in her wheel house.

Lt Dan I scream

This is one of my all time least favorite episodes. Okana is such a lame off-brand Han Solo he makes Wesley look cool

Neill Shaughness

Did somebody order Han Solo from Wish?! Billy Campbell would go on to play “The Rocketeer”

Adam Reid