PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG - S1E26 - The Neutral Zone
Added 2023-12-20 13:24:04 +0000 UTCThere will be a separate post for PATRON TAKES on season 1 as a whole. Please keep your comments to this episode specifically.
Comment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
We love reading ALL of your takes so comment whatever and however you’d like! Just no future spoilers please. There have been some questions about what counts as a future spoiler. If it is information regarding anything after this episode, don't include it in your comment. Hope that clears it up.
If you want your take to be read in the video, comment ONE of the following:
- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode tonight (Wednesday) so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
Hey Finally Romulans...Right guys? Check the Model in the Quarters of Claire the Women from the past, it looks like the Enterprise from the TOS Movies. My fav character in this and maybe in all season 1 is Sonny Clemonds the country guy...great scenes of him with Data! I can't believe you guys won't like this one. Hey Josh..what do you think about a between seasons Spin-Off with the 3 from the 20th century? LOL What do you guys think of this one as it is during the Writers Strike? Tha's it! 😀🖖
Duane Chancey
2023-12-28 04:14:03 +0000 UTCThe strike didn’t actually happen until TNG was prepping the second season. That’s why season two is so abbreviated. It was a LONG time before they could begin production on season two. By then, I was so demoralized by the death of Tosha that I wasn’t paying as much attention.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-12-27 23:07:16 +0000 UTCDitalics B. God, I love TNG planet names. So cool. And many more cool names to come.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-12-27 23:04:44 +0000 UTCPoor Remick. I guess he swallowed more than he could handle, yes?
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-12-27 23:03:28 +0000 UTCI noticed that Denise Crosby‘s credit card was still on the opening credits. I think I would’ve noticed that the first time watching it 300 years ago or whenever it was first aired. When they formatted the series for streaming, they probably just use the same credit sequence and duped it for all of the episodes. I’ll bet that credit card wasn’t on the original version. IMO.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-12-27 23:02:17 +0000 UTCOh but there’s nothing wrong with S2 e-1. No spoilers, but that’s a beautiful episode. A personal favorite.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-12-27 23:00:18 +0000 UTCRomulans and cookie cutter 20'th century cliche buffoons. Not that I didn't enjoy it. Still how dense they made the capitalist was amazing.
Mike Rogers
2023-12-27 08:16:15 +0000 UTCIn STW there was a direct discussion of the Federation as a Socialist project
Castanea
2023-12-27 03:04:58 +0000 UTCIt’s not really meant as any kind of cliffhanger I don’t think. Even back when this came out it was common to have a “finale” just happen to be the last episode of the season without fanfare. Cliffhangers we’re unheard of but weren’t expected.
Joe Concepts
2023-12-25 16:17:20 +0000 UTCI’m sometimes annoyed when they get involved with some 20th century people and no one says “Oh this is just like science fiction! Spaceships and robots, cool!”
Joe Concepts
2023-12-25 16:14:44 +0000 UTCAlways thought that was funny because I don’t think the Romulans were featured in more than 2 TOS episodes.
Joe Concepts
2023-12-25 16:11:02 +0000 UTCGood points.
Leighton Cressman
2023-12-24 19:36:27 +0000 UTCJosh, you have been wondering about "money" in the Star Trek time-line. Apparently, The Federation replaced physical money with something called "Credits" (perhaps a Barter system of payment for services rendered), and this was referenced even back in TOS. In that show's episode "Catspaw" we heard [Assistant Chief Engineer] DeSalle make a comment, on the bridge, "I'll bet you credits to navy beans....." - borrowing an old reference to history: in the 19th century the U.S. Navy began issuing beans as standard ration for sailors on their warships. With the Starship Enterprise being somewhat a part of a future "space navy," using that [navy beans] reference is an interesting nod to Earth history, and begins Star Trek's prediction that money will be a thing of the past by Kirk's era and beyond, replaced by "Credits." That method of "payment' returns time again throughout TOS, TNG, DS9 and so on, even in TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles" we witness Cyrano Jones, while negotiating with the bar tender over the price of a tribble for sale, and the back and forth of how many Credits they will agree upon. (I always believed a Credit was akin to a Dollar, and even if it's not exactly that, it allows a mental picture of where Gene Roddenberry and the writers were going with the idea.)
Rhett Coates
2023-12-23 07:18:36 +0000 UTCI mean yeah, but the humans from the past come across as caricatures, especially the straw-capitalist. Picard preaching at him without having to have lived in their time irks me.
Tim b
2023-12-23 03:45:46 +0000 UTCEven a capitalist from the 20th Century would know that fortunes amassed today wouldn't survive for three centuries. His frequent "I need to call my broker, lol" felt like a strawman. But at least he was portrayed as reading people well -- identifying the posture and arguments of the Romulans for what they were. I thought he was the only one that the script was criticizing though. The country singer dude was all "hey, let these people do their job, they don't need you getting all up in their business," and the woman wasn't portrayed negatively in any way.
Ian Westcott
2023-12-22 21:55:46 +0000 UTCThe writers may have been on strike, but the ship designers were on point! Love the new Romulan warbird design.
Ian Westcott
2023-12-22 19:22:33 +0000 UTCYaaay, finally, Romulans. One of Gene's dictates at the start of TNG was that he didn't want the show to trod over territory previously covered by TOS, so he wanted a deemphasis on Klingons and Romulans and Vulcans, and more attention to newer races like the Ferengi. Unfortunate then that they reused so many TOS and Phase 2 scripts, a problem would continue with the first episode of Season 2...
Ian Westcott
2023-12-22 19:20:30 +0000 UTCThis episode always seemed very tos like. A lot don’t like it but I thought it ok. It did give us the Romulans back. And set up a future mystery. I predict the boys will be mixed on it.
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-12-22 12:54:04 +0000 UTCFirst time we see the Romulans in TNG, which is pretty cool and with a cool looking ship which is the D’deridex class war bird. It’s also hilarious how the Romulans agree to a brief alliance and then immediately say oh and by the way we are awesome you suck goodbye. Also, the mysterious force that took the colonies we will find out who that is. Don’t worry, and it will involve some of the best episodes of TNG. As for the stupid plot with the frozen people, I hated it because they basically act like these people who are just regular people are the scum of the Earth because they’re from the 20th century. If you want to talk about the bad stuff that happened in the 20th centuries there’s a lot of stuff you could point out but instead they literally take just some ordinary people and say look out bad everyone was back then. The other thing is, I hated Picards preaching, and this is why, when people say older Star Trek, like TNG wasn’t political I point to an episode like this were you literally have Picard basically preaching Socialism in front of the greedy capitalist and the capitalist begrudgingly starts to realize he’s wrong at the end. It is a total strawman argument was the only saving grace being that the stockbroker at least has a come back saying he’s here and Picard doesn’t have an answer. In the end, analyzing both economic systems equally was not the intention of the writers and Roddenberry but to preach there politics.
Leighton Cressman
2023-12-21 17:50:13 +0000 UTCThe end of this episode felt like the writer was told he was getting a two parter, then at the last moment it was changed to on episode and he didn't have time to re-work the script. "Then the Romulans show up and fuck off."
EnigmaticPenguin
2023-12-21 14:49:53 +0000 UTCWhy tell them this???
Nolan
2023-12-21 09:01:59 +0000 UTCProbably more to do with the nuclear apocalypse of that time.
Nolan
2023-12-21 05:13:50 +0000 UTCAs someone who IS largely embarrassed by my contemporary humans, I don't blame the crew for looking down on our collective bull$#!+. 😅
Nolan
2023-12-21 05:12:24 +0000 UTCIt also rendered Data's "Class of '78" comment on his backstory in the pilot wonky and not part of canon. I assume at that time they assumed a current year of 2480's.
Nolan
2023-12-21 05:10:16 +0000 UTCWell, boys, theyyy're back! And one of them is played by an actor you'll see plenty later. Oh, also a trio of peop-cicles. And no Tee Vee.
Nolan
2023-12-21 05:06:44 +0000 UTCDIdn't we just finish a mystery? I barely remember this episode, which probably means very boring. How is this the season finale? Just because "Romulans"?
Nerd's Gold
2023-12-21 04:20:07 +0000 UTCYou finally got your Romulans..... for a few seconds. Looking forward to seeing what you think of the Romulan Warbird when it de-cloaks. It's an impressive ship. I've always loved Data's line from this episode "occupation: homemaker... it must be some kind of contruction work".
Regan
2023-12-21 03:43:37 +0000 UTCThe way they've been teezing the Romulans half the season, this episode must've given you the ultimate blue balls. You'll get good episodes with them soon enough, show runners at this point pretty much replaced the Ferengi with them for main antagonist (well 2nd to what was hinted at the end of this episode)
Justin DiBari
2023-12-21 03:29:33 +0000 UTCThe first Star Trek season finale that actually feels like a finale. The writing was abruptly halted by the 1988 Writer’s Strike, and working from the first draft outline the script was written in a day and a half! The Romulan Commander is played by Marc Alaimo, who played one of the Anticans in Lonely Among Us. And the computer tells Data to shut up! That was a great scene!
tyranusfan
2023-12-20 23:48:11 +0000 UTCThe episode was great for me. I enjoyed the fish out of water story. The country singer and the business man made the episode. The ending when the business man jumped in and showed he was still useful was great. This episode and the previous one got me 3/4 of the way to embracing the show fully. Not sure if you liked this episode but you are doing much better with the first season then I did.
Aaron Holden
2023-12-20 23:34:46 +0000 UTCThis episode was a milestone in the history of Star Trek by establishing that the first season of TNG took place in the year 2364. This was the first time an exact calendar date was provided for a Trek episode. (Kirk's timeline had been established as the 23rd century in the movie Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986).) All Star Trek episodes, chronologies, novels and background information since 1988 have been calculated from this date.
Badger
2023-12-20 23:22:50 +0000 UTCAnd yet we never got a TNG/Designing Women crossover...
CM Waters
2023-12-20 23:18:22 +0000 UTCAnd yet so many admirals turn into a-holes. Though that as well as your last line do get covered in the future.
CM Waters
2023-12-20 23:17:19 +0000 UTCAs already mentioned, this was a very hastily written script by Maurice Hurley because of the Writers strike. And you can tell. The Romulan thing goes absolutely nowhere (in this episode anyway). And the unfrozen 20th century humans...there's a couple of good moments, but that doesn't really go anywhere either. And the two stories are so disconnected. Not a great final episode.
Martin S
2023-12-20 22:25:22 +0000 UTCYeah, just Google some pictures of Linda Evans and Joan (Edith Keeler) Collins from the Dynasty years.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-20 22:07:59 +0000 UTCThe writers have a tendency to frame current day humans as primitive, almost an embarrassment to the humans of the future. Do you think that's a fair assesment of where we are right now? Consider that inventions like the replicator, transporter, holodeck and so on have made the earth of the future a paradise. I think it's pretty easy to be a saint in paradise.
Tim b
2023-12-20 21:34:35 +0000 UTCFun fact: Due to the 1988 Writers Guild of America strike, this episode is literally Maurice Hurley's first draft script filmed and put on screen. Hurley had no time to write further drafts before going on strike.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-12-20 21:31:44 +0000 UTCAlso, it's at this point that we can start deducing the Star Trek timeline as a whole -- since McCoy was 137 in "Farpoint," and he was 40-ish in TOS, TOS must take place in the 2260s, with the TOS movie "trilogy" in the 2280s. Prior to this episode's broadcast, accepted fanon had placed TOS significantly earlier in the 23rd century.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-12-20 21:27:15 +0000 UTCBesides the return of the Romulans (how could you NOT have them show up after titling the episode The Neutral Zone?) the thing I remember most about this episode was the reference to television being largely gone by the mid-21st century. Wishful thinking on the part of the writers?
Collin Freeman
2023-12-20 20:25:40 +0000 UTCYes, shoulder pads were all the rage at the end of the 80's/beginning of the 90's.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-20 20:20:58 +0000 UTCVery nicely summarized and stated, Michael, and I totally agree with your assessment.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-20 20:17:11 +0000 UTCTo be continued...
Collin Freeman
2023-12-20 20:15:53 +0000 UTCI'm just going to say it. This episode is mostly lame, but that reveal with the music is excellent.
Steven Johnson
2023-12-20 18:32:56 +0000 UTCTwo key factors in the widow: The Romulans are back! And can someone please remove that pesky businessman from Picard’s bridge! See you in season 2
TalynStarburst
2023-12-20 18:01:53 +0000 UTCWell, it was the 80s, the era of big shoulder pads.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-20 17:51:23 +0000 UTCRomulans are back, baby! And this time with even bigger shoulder pads
Neill Shaughness
2023-12-20 17:50:01 +0000 UTCJust out of curiosity, how much of a break do you think you'll take before Season 2?
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-20 16:57:56 +0000 UTCKind of a season ending cliffhanger. Sort of. More or less. There won't be any actual season ending cliffhangers until Season 3 and then every season thereafter.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-20 16:32:38 +0000 UTCWhat did you guys think of the Warbird design???
Crush
2023-12-20 16:30:26 +0000 UTCRomulans! The TNG era Warbrid is one of my favorite ships in the franchise. It is very cool and menacing IMO. Hope you liked the one actor playing the Romulan commander as he is a recurring guest actor you will see a lot of later on in other roles. He is amazing.
Strife
2023-12-20 16:26:00 +0000 UTCYet another disservice for Marina Sirtis, she would have absolutely been the one to advise Picard what the Romulans are really feeling but instead let's bring in this 20th century a-hole and give him the lines.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-20 16:19:51 +0000 UTCOne of the Romulans is played by Marc Alaimo. Much like Mark Lenard before him, he'll actually be more famous for playing a different character later. Nice to see him in an otherwise meh episode.
Elway Simpson
2023-12-20 15:59:52 +0000 UTCC. M. Waters pointed out the Doctor Who connection, as a fan of Doctor Who for the last 52 years I appreciated the Photo of Sylvester McCoy with those names (Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, and space: 1999, were like the four food groups of sci fi back then) I would like to draw your attention to the glasses that Picard has in his quarters that he drinks from while talking to the admiral. They are a shorter frosted version of the Star Trek III GLASSES. BEEN LOOKING FOR THOSE FOR THIRTY FIVE YEARS. “Occupation homemaker? Must be some kind of construction work.” Best line of the episode Also Alex, Josh, can you tell me exactly what a pit-Wolfie is? Sounds a little to toothy for romance, maybe he should ask Worf instead seems that biting is part of Klingon mating practices.
Thicketdweller
2023-12-20 15:17:22 +0000 UTCOne of the Romulans was played by Anthony James, a famous character actor. This was one of his last roles before he gave up acting at age 50 to become a painter. He had a very distinctive look and was known for playing villains in a lot of Westerns. Without the makeup he might have looked more like Romulan than just about anyone.
Chtphr Rrr
2023-12-20 15:11:23 +0000 UTCAlex and Josh..unique question…What do you think of the music of the series so far? Ron Jones is universally praised as the best composer TNG ever had! Maybe not something you considered. Thoughts?
Chris S.
2023-12-20 15:05:45 +0000 UTCThe tension when Picard comes on board is intense. I dont know about anyone else, but the 8-note pacing Romulan theme is tense and almost creepy in a way. Great score!
Chris S.
2023-12-20 15:03:16 +0000 UTCMystery!
Troy Massey
2023-12-20 14:55:06 +0000 UTCA strong ending to a disappointing episode. The 20th Century characters are largely uninteresting and play no role in the plot until the very end. The Romulans look great but they’re barely in it.
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2023-12-20 14:49:26 +0000 UTCRomulans, the Neutral Zone, a small callback to Space Seed with the 20th century humans... what more can you want hehe. But the most important thing to ask is probably: How excited are you about getting into season 2, now that the Romulans have announced their return?
Andreas Schmitt
2023-12-20 14:38:56 +0000 UTCWhen this episode first aired I thought it was a huge disappointment. The 20th century characters were embarrassing caricatures and their story went nowhere. I was excited to see the Romulans, but that was just a tease that also went nowhere (at least in this episode.)
KMScudder
2023-12-20 14:34:11 +0000 UTC20th century humans and a classic villain “is back”, and a little hint to something that’s on the horizon.
Gregory
2023-12-20 14:05:14 +0000 UTCThey'd MANY decades later tribute that idea in Season 4 of "Lower Decks"
CM Waters
2023-12-20 14:01:22 +0000 UTCThis episode is one of my favourites of the season. It’s an important one for the continuity of the series. That’s all I can say without getting into spoilers but as the Romulans say - and Trek on TV said - “we are back”. It only gets even better from here!
Paul Rymer
2023-12-20 13:57:44 +0000 UTCFun fact, the warbird was originally designed vertically with the nacelles at the top and bottom of a really tall ship, it was a really awesome and alien looking ship but the showrunners didn't like so it got rotated 90 degrees for a horizontal design.
Phillip Grischa
2023-12-20 13:48:47 +0000 UTCWell, THEY…ARE BACK!! You’ve been begging for a Romulan episode, and honestly it’s the strongest part of the episode! The “fish out of water” story for the 20th century humans, in my opinion, wasn’t handled as well as it could’ve been. I’ll predict you’ll love this one, if only because THEY…ARE BACK!!! Fun Fact: The new Warbird design when originally conceived was 90 degrees sideways from what you see on screen. They were trying to go for a new and different approach, but personally I’m happy we got this design. It’s one of my favorites!
The Game Show Reviewer
2023-12-20 13:47:19 +0000 UTCFirst appearance of Romulans in TNG. They've been dropping hints all season. Do you feel they lived up to your hype / expectations? Also how cool of a design is the Warbird?
Ca$hWednesday
2023-12-20 13:40:18 +0000 UTCBroad Season One thoughts: I don’t know what Gene Roddenberry’s long term vision for this show was, but he ran this show in Season 1, and in time you will be able to tell a difference. He was a 1950s/1960s TV writer. TV had changed by 1990, and I don’t think he knew how to push the envelope further from a writing POV. He had an amazing vision for the future and great story concepts and principles, but telling character-centric stories was a challenge for him. I believe this is because he wanted so badly for humanity to be free of its sin and flaws by way of pulling itself up by its own bootstraps. That’s just not the nature of the human condition, and it makes for cheesy storytelling after a while. When human flaws are allowed to make their way into these characters, in the universe he’s constructed, now we’re in for something incredible.
Michael Parnell
2023-12-20 13:39:15 +0000 UTCWell, you wanted Romulans, you got Romulans! Couple of fun facts for two of our three human characters with stuff that doesn't really effect anything on the show though: 1)TNG novels in the future (only considered side canon) have Ralph Offenhouse being the Federation's Ambassador to the Ferengi. 2)In the original definition version of the episode, when Troi looks up Clare's family history, names listed in her family tree included the first 6 actors to play The Doctor on Doctor Who, Mary Richard's and Lou Grant from the Mary Tyler Moore Show, and funniest to me Kermit T. Frog and Miss Piggy. Remastered version replaces them with TNG actors, production workers and CBS staff. Here's an image of the original version. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/d/d6/Raymond_family_tree_%28Dr_Who%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20050411173713&path-prefix=en
CM Waters
2023-12-20 13:37:19 +0000 UTCFriendly reminder. Note that the mystery of what happened to those outposts is not solved by the end of this episode.
Joe Concepts
2023-12-20 13:34:40 +0000 UTCROMULANS! All the teasing paid off. Credit to the show for dropping hints for so long, but holding on until the end. I predict a "Here we go!" when they tell us "We are back."
Joe Concepts
2023-12-20 13:31:56 +0000 UTCThis episode is significant, not only because of the long awaited return of the Romulans, but also because for the first time in Trek the actual current year of the episode - 2364 - is mentioned instead of just a stardate or a vague reference to it being the 23rd or 24th century. The closest we got before this was the reference in TWOK to the bottle of Romulan Ale being of a 2283 vintage, but as McCoy says it took a while for that to ferment so 2283 was already in the past.
Dion James Pitman
2023-12-20 13:31:30 +0000 UTCI predict a "finally" when it's revealed it's the Romulans.
THE LORE!!!
2023-12-20 13:29:04 +0000 UTC
