FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S1E20 - Heart of Glory
Added 2023-12-08 16:00:08 +0000 UTC
Comments
I love Worf and pretty much all the episodes of TNG that they feature him. Look forward to some great Klingon episodes in the future. I feel that like Troi, they did not know what to do with Worf often on other episodes. He says some funny lines, or they show how strong someone else is by beating him up. but often he is left out or shown not always in the best light. But there are so many grat episodes about truth and honor that are coming.
Carl Peterson
2023-12-11 23:52:41 +0000 UTCAlthough I've been following the channel for a couple months, I've only been able to subscribe here on Patreon recently and wanted to say just how enjoyable it's been exploring this show with you guys. I basically grew up with TNG when it was first broadcast, fell in love with it at just the right time, then later discovered the Original Series and films which I also came to love. I gladly join you and many others here in saying how well Season 1 holds up even today, despite a few growing pains and missteps here and there that first seasons of almost any show (particularly one with 26 episodes from this era of TV) is prone to. That said, it became clear by this point in the season, with episodes like Coming of Age and Heart of Glory, that a turning point for the better in writing, directing, and acting had been reached. The interactions in this story, through both dialogue and non-verbal cues, between the characters and their actors are so much smoother and more believable than they had been at the start of the season. The featuring of excellent guest actor Vaughn Armstrong (remember his name) as the Klingon renegade leader Korris also spurs the cast members who share scenes with him to truly shine. The exploration of Klingon culture, the current state of Federation/Klingon affairs, and the first hints of Worf's backstory are all featured extremely well here, without seeming forced or confusing. Even Geordi gets his moment to shine, as we literally get a glimpse of the world through his eyes (or rather, VISOR). Keep your eye (or VISOR) on him in the coming episodes 😉 Fun bit of trivia: the Talarian freighter Batris, which was stolen by the renegades and blows up at just the right moment to generate some suspense at the episode's start, was a model that had originally been built and filmed as the unnamed freighter destroyed by Lord Kruge at the start of Search for Spock. It is a model that will appear again many times in the years to come... Hope I haven't rambled on too long, so I'll say goodbye for now and that I'm very much looking forward to following you through the rest of this season and into the next. Oh, and with any luck, I'll be sending you guys a little piece of childhood nostalgia that I came across at a toy show this weekend; I hope it'll reach you soon and in good shape. LLAP 🖖
Patrick47
2023-12-11 03:02:19 +0000 UTCIf the first season was as bad as people claimed the show would have gone off the air. Compared with what is to come tonally the early episodes are somewhat different but we are shifting through the gears from now on
Jon1701
2023-12-10 23:05:57 +0000 UTCI read that AMT paid for the model and they wanted to push it the same way as the shuttlecraft. It was an expensive and more detailed model so they wanted their monies worth.
Jon1701
2023-12-10 23:04:37 +0000 UTCThis, basically. The first season isn't bad, it's just so not as good as what comes later that it's easily construed as bad.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-10 03:51:07 +0000 UTCSame as Joe, the reaction right next to Paramount Plus.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-10 03:49:59 +0000 UTCAchievement unlocked. It's not like I didn't know they'd most likely heavily disagree, most Star Trek fans do. I till stand by my opinion, klingons are annoying and I'll groan every time TNG Klingon episode comes up.
Phillip Grischa
2023-12-09 19:59:08 +0000 UTCKirk said in Star Trek II "Klingons don't take prisoners". However I don't see this as a discrepancy. Kruge wasn't holding them as prisoners of war, he was holding them for information. He certainly wouldn't have kept them alive after getting the information, and he wasn't using them as hostages to hide behind either.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-12-09 18:16:12 +0000 UTCHey, you're the first Patron that got properly roasted hehe That's a thing in itself :D
Andreas Schmitt
2023-12-09 18:14:15 +0000 UTCExcellently put. And agree 100%. I myself had forgotten that the first season was actually not as bad as I remembered it, and the second season actually has some of my favorite episodes.
Monty Crawford
2023-12-09 16:30:01 +0000 UTCI'm not sure if this is canon or not but I believe before the Klingons and the Federation became allies, there was a brief period in the 23rd century when Klingons were allied with the Romulans. Romulans got the D7 cruiser designs from Klingons and Klingons got decent cloaking tech from the Romulans. That's why you thought that ship was Romulan. I believe even Spock points out the Klingon origin of the ship's design in that TOS episode.
valen
2023-12-09 16:28:37 +0000 UTCThis episode was fine, but I prefer the Geordi stuff to the Klingon stuff. Maybe their culture just doesn't do it for me, but I find the Vulcan culture more interesting and feel like the whole mindset here has been explored in many old Stan Lee comics by one character or another (Namor, Thor).
Ken R
2023-12-09 10:15:17 +0000 UTCThanks guys! I appreciated that you read my comment! That made me feel great, thank you! I'm glad you liked this episode so much, it was a fun reaction to watch!
Gary Leyh
2023-12-09 06:45:12 +0000 UTCApparently I'm a klingon contrarian, most fans love them and I don't and most fans hate what Star Trek Discovery did with them while I think that's the most interesting they've ever been.
Phillip Grischa
2023-12-09 06:10:15 +0000 UTCIt seems to vary. The discussions tend to be a bit longer on episodes they really like, just did a quick scroll back and some and some of the more popular episodes are 65-70 minutes which is a 20-25 minute discussion like this and some of them are quite a bit shorter...
Brendon Waldron
2023-12-09 03:46:35 +0000 UTCI think my Fav reaction regarding this Ep. is your reaction to the Comment by Jovet! 🤣🖖
Duane Chancey
2023-12-09 03:08:49 +0000 UTCOnce again, an episode that isn't as bad as I remembered it. I still hate the "Death Ritual" and this remains my least favorite Klingon episode, but Worf's character moments and scenes were all pretty good.
Nerd's Gold
2023-12-09 02:01:46 +0000 UTCYou guys thought the Klingon ship was a Romulan ship ..... Review TOS's season-three episode "The Enterprise Incident" where Kirk orders the ship into the Neutral Zone, and when the other vessel appears, Scotty exclaims "That's a Klingon ship!" Spock, looking into his hooded viewer, reports "Intelligence reports Romulans [are] now using Klingon design." It is said Paramount (having taken over the show from Desilu when Lucy sold her company to them in 1968) didn't release the money to [ST's production budge] keep making and/or using more and more alien ships and such things, so those above lines from Scotty and Spock, about Romulans using Klingon [ship] design, was thrown in to make it appear legitimate. No, the ship in "Heart of Glory" is indeed a KLINGON ship, and Romulan vessels are quite different.
Rhett Coates
2023-12-09 01:59:05 +0000 UTCAbout "Klingons not taking prisoners" and the apparent discrepancy from Commander Kruge in ST-III .... remember, TNG is almost a century beyond TOS and their movies. A lot had evidently changed since Kirk's era.
Rhett Coates
2023-12-09 01:00:58 +0000 UTCI think the bad reputation of season one and two was more a "We are not used to these characters yet" and they were being judged against original Star Trek. So, early show flaws were exaggerated in people's minds. As they got used to the characters and the series got the footing, it was like kismet. The fans were ready and the show was really delivering.
Mike Rogers
2023-12-09 00:56:55 +0000 UTCAlex and Josh….I think I might have figured it out. For the most part. When most fans say “the first two seasons are bad”, I dont think thats the case. Yes, there are a lot of meh episodes in seasons 1 and 2, but I think what throws most fans is the STYLE. Im not giving anything away here, but the look, tone and feel…even the writing, is different in the rest of the show, so naturally, when re-watching the show, fans skip 1 and 2 subconsciously, because its different as a whole, not necessarily because its “bad” per se. any other fans that think I’ve hit on something let me know. I could be wrong, but it seems that way.
Chris S.
2023-12-09 00:47:14 +0000 UTCGuys, considering those here on Patreon who have stated that TNG's Season 1 is "bad," you should remember that they have had the advantage of having seen THE REST OF THE SERIES, Seasons 2 through 7, and the 4 TNG movies that follow them. As you progress through the show, you will discover episodes that are truly ASTONISHING from their writing, direction, amazing production values, and in the way the cast portrayals expand the tapestry begun in TOS/TAS, and which continues throughout the entire [franchise]. That is much of what was meant by the notion that TNG's S-1 isn't quite "there" .... but keep watching. The stories get better and better every time, and by the time you get to S-3, you will be able to look back and realize exactly what those warnings meant: these aren't "terrible" stories, and the ones you have yet to see are simply so excellent that they make these "first attempts" seem like they're bad. They are NOT "bad," only not up to the level of excellence which you will see in the rest of the show, which happened as soon as they "got their footing" and the show took off at warp speed. Every episode does indeed add to what STAR TREK is, and they're all fun, even if some are "slow" compared to others. You've already found that out in TOS, TAS and Season-1 of TNG, in various episodes. That's the old news. The NEW news is that this "tapestry" of what is being set up has its purest foundation in TOS, and the combination of the work of all the people who created these shows reveals that EVERY ONE OF THEM did what they did out of love: the entire production staff, all the actors in every ST series. It also follows (and you will note this if you consider this deeply enough) that THE CHARACTERS' comradery, in all of 'Trek, is completely supportive of the rest of their "Family" - the very BEST type of ensemble cast - which serves to bring all of us viewers in as fans of the show. I won't ramble more: KEEP WATCHING, and see for yourselves how S-1 plays out: and PUT ON THOSE .... S E A T B E L T S ..... which I strongly recommended for you guys, yesterday. Watching your reactions to what's still to come IS GONNA BE JUST AS MUCH FUN as seeing the episodes again!
Rhett Coates
2023-12-09 00:37:03 +0000 UTCKeep this in mind for when we ask for questions for our season 1 recap
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-09 00:31:42 +0000 UTCThey made the decision to make Klingons like Vikings. And really they were pretty undeveloped in TOS I’m fine with it
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-12-09 00:15:29 +0000 UTCIt would be interesting to know how you THINK Worf's arc will go and how close you come to what happens. Of course, we won't tell you if you guess right.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-09 00:09:09 +0000 UTCI remember watching this in '87, it was very of its time. Exploring the idea of old warhorses or soldiers that can't let "the war" go was almost cliche in the last decade of the Cold War. Explored originally through Vietnam Vets who brought the war home with them, and then through the idea that if/when Russia and the US made peace there would be those that could not let a 30-year dispute die. An excellent use of Klingons in an age when enemies were quickly becoming allies. I forgot TNG found its mojo this quickly.
StonyD
2023-12-08 23:48:15 +0000 UTCI have been playing Paramount+ in one windows and their video in a window next to it.
Joe Concepts
2023-12-08 23:36:16 +0000 UTCYou want Klingon political dispute? Maybe you'll see some, maybe not. Just keep watching.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-08 23:24:23 +0000 UTCI have the same Blu-ray set they do. I just play that on my laptop and sync up their video right along side it.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-08 23:13:14 +0000 UTCA good way to think of the Klingon mentality and culture is something like the old Japanese empire/samurai culture: battle, honor, and die in service of your country/lord/family. Rob Bowman deserves a lot of credit for his direction of this episode, especially the camera angles. Loved the main engineering shots. Romulans, huh. Hmmm. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-08 22:40:23 +0000 UTCHow does everyone watch the reactions? I use the picture-in-picture feature and run Paramount Plus on another tab. Does anyone use the Blurays? Aren't they using the blurays? Simple curiosity.
StonyD
2023-12-08 22:36:51 +0000 UTCFair enough
Collin Freeman
2023-12-08 22:22:19 +0000 UTCThat campy dialog sounds like something Roddenberry would write.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-08 22:20:51 +0000 UTCYes, season 1 does tend to end with (mostly) better episodes than it started with, as it should be. Go out with a bang.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-08 22:20:11 +0000 UTCIn season 3 of TOS, Romulans used Klingon ships because of a alliance between them. In real life, either the Romulan ship model was lost or broken (I heard both versions)
Mike Rogers
2023-12-08 22:10:34 +0000 UTCI still don't like this episode, klingons annoy me to no end. Honor, battle, honor, blood, honor, honor, blah, blah blah.🙄
Phillip Grischa
2023-12-08 22:02:55 +0000 UTCAm I wrong or is the discussion now longer?
Sam Langanke
2023-12-08 21:13:16 +0000 UTC20:20 LOL! My nickname is literally pronounced JOE-vet. (Not joe-VET like corvette, and not joe-VAY like French). Wasn't expecting that. Pretty good insight there, guys!
Jovet
2023-12-08 19:02:25 +0000 UTC15:30 Lucky for you, Worf is one of the most fleshed-out characters in the entire franchise. You've been warned? (LOL)
Jovet
2023-12-08 18:55:14 +0000 UTC14:37 I think that Picard's line "The bridge wouldn't be the same without you" was pretty campy, something that would be straight out of Galaxy Quest. (Dis)Honorable mention to Picard's line earlier 'Now I begin to understand the man' or whatever he said about Geordi. While the line seems in-character for Picard in general, it rubs me the wrong way because there's never been any prior character setup for Geordi's mystery in Picard's eyes. No pun intended.
Jovet
2023-12-08 18:53:39 +0000 UTC6:04 That's exactly right. And I agree, it's an impressive feat of writing.
Jovet
2023-12-08 18:41:47 +0000 UTC5:15 Klingons and the Federation have a peace treaty. They are allies per that treaty. The Klingons are not Federation members.
Jovet
2023-12-08 18:40:24 +0000 UTCJust you wait. Just you wait.
Jovet
2023-12-08 18:33:42 +0000 UTCEven though we’ve enjoyed most of the episodes it felt like these last 2 were on a different level
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-08 18:05:56 +0000 UTCIt's so great to see how much you guys are enjoying this. I too, am starting to look at the first season in a new light. There are a lot of things that are not quite developed yet, but it's not bad. In fact, the last few episodes are pretty strong.
Crush
2023-12-08 17:56:38 +0000 UTCI've decided that I like this new separate format where I can watch the episode reactions and then save the discussion parts to watch then back to back
Brendon Waldron
2023-12-08 16:46:51 +0000 UTCDidn't remember this at all. I thought the first Klingon episode was the one with that certain woman. But it was good although a bit over the top. Granted they haven't fleshed the TNG Klingons out yet.
Sam Langanke
2023-12-08 16:23:20 +0000 UTC
