UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Added 2023-08-14 02:45:01 +0000 UTCHere is our full uncut reaction to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
As decided by the patrons, we watched the theatrical version of the film, so you will want to use that to sync with this video.
Thank you for being a Patron & enjoy!
Comments
Based friend
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-19 16:18:50 +0000 UTCI’ve been engaging in a project to introduce my buddy to Star Trek. He had never seen any in his 40 years of life and had grown up on Star Wars. We haven’t been watching every single episode but bouncing around some of my favorites. He took to the original series immediately just like Josh and Alex. And then when we got to the movies he loved Motion Picture and was very underwhelmed by Wrath of Khan. JUST like Josh and Alex!! I find this very interesting because I grew up with Star Trek and when I was 10, the majority of folks around me were underwhelmed by Motion Picture but when I was 13, everyone loved Wrath of Khan. As an adult I appreciate Motion Picture a lot more and I feel it fits into the ethos of Star Trek a lot better. Whereas, Wrath of Khan now feels like a generic action flick that would have been just the same if it had nothing to do with Star Trek and had completely different characters.
Aramis Calcutt
2025-01-19 15:26:50 +0000 UTCKhan might know that Klingon proverb because he saw it at the start of Kill Bill. Mind you i have no idea who Tarantino might have been quoting😋
jon bolton
2025-01-05 02:44:11 +0000 UTCTOS Sex Scoreboard No official scores. Kirk 12 Chekov 4 Spock 4 Bones 4 Scottie 2 Uhura 1 Extras: We do have an interesting call. Should Kirk get a new +1? The answer initially is no. We give scores for boinking that happens during the episode or directly related. In the past we have not counted previous hoppin-the-wababa situations, so we are not counting hide-the-hot dog even whena mini dog popped out.
Prof Moff
2024-12-24 18:55:10 +0000 UTCAh guys it was nice to come back and watch your reactions all over again. My boss/friend/mentor died 1 year ago today and when this reaction originally posted it was at the perfect time for me. Thank You. Maybe it will be a yearly tradition now.. LLAP
Badger
2024-08-03 07:03:41 +0000 UTCDo a poll of the best Trek movie among any sufficiently large group of Trek fans, and this will pretty much always top the list. It's not my favourite. That would be the second TNG film, followed by 6, with this in 3rd place. There are certainly things that this film does better than any of the others though, and it's a masterpiece to this day. Yes, there are things to criticize about the film. There are some inconsistencies in the timeline like Chekov and Khan having met and Khan saying they were left there 15 years ago when it was more like 19(which combined with the harsh climate and genetic engineering makes Joachim being Khan's son more believable). Kirk being so loathe to raise shields was a huge oversight. I also find it impossible to believe that a ship like the Reliant that was explicitly doing survey work for the Genesis project AND visiting the same system Chekov should remember Khan being left in just wouldn't notice that one of the planets was just gone from a surveyed system. There should be chunks of planet flying all around the system, Ceti Alpha V's new orbit should be highly irregular, and how the fuck does a planet just blow up? And the one everyone asks, why did Scotty bring the injured Preston to the bridge instead of sickbay? Saavik was a fantastic addition to the film, and she's honestly one of my favourite Vulcans, largely because she's a very unconventional Vulcan. Even if it was never confirmed on screen and remains a behind the scenes detail, I regard Saavik's half Romulan ancestry as canon. Yeah, the 2 species are near identical, but as we see in TNG's The Enemy, even the centuries of separation between the 2 has made them different, I suspect due to genetic engineering. I can see the Romulans, not wanting to follow the Vulcan path and rid themselves of passion and emotion, opted to use genetic engineering to make the more volatile/violent aspects of their physiology and psychology manageable without needing to be repressed. Being half Romulan would explain things like why she was so bothered over losing a scenario that EVERYONE loses, changing her hair constantly, crying at Spock's funeral(the whole "Vulcans don't cry" thing is thoroughly disproven by the TNG era), and just her general expressiveness and little eccentricities. I think those qualities are assets, not liabilities. She's assertive, smart, knows regulations inside and out, but also has great instincts. Sure, she's short on experience, but I could see her being far more likely to pursue command than Spock for example. Great reaction time saving David with that tackle too. As far as David is concerned, while he may not be a super memorable character, I have no issues with him and would hardly say he's irrelevant to the film. A huge part of TWOK is Kirk feeling old and worn out, looking back and wondering what his life could have been. Finding out he has a son who is immediately hostile to him on top of his past revisiting him in the form of Khan is just one more thing weighing down on Kirk. But after the loss of Spock, David reconciling with Kirk is what gives him something to live for again, makes him feel young again. It also gave Kirk an unfortunately short lived legacy. Another cameo in this movie was now commander Kyle who was often the transporter operator in S1 and 2. It was pretty cruel to introduce Scotty's nephew(Peter Preston) only to kill him off almost immediately. You just know that ate away at Kirk as well, knowing his own lapse in judgement letting Khan get the jump on them cost the life of one of his oldest friend's nephew, as well as ultimately Spock and many others. Finally, I personally think Spock's death and funeral were executed brilliantly. Either Trek fans were there in 1982 and saw the movie themselves, or in many cases for Millennials and later generations, their parents saw the film and relayed their experience to their kids. Even being born 6 years later, I've heard so many accounts of the theatre experience that I almost feel like I was there. Knowing how much those sequences affect me, I can fully understand why a room full of fans who grew up watching these characters from childhood would be collectively moved to tears. I can also understand why the final shots of the torpedo casing on the planet, followed by Nimoy's voice quoting the Enterprise mission statement would give so many a feeling of hope leaving the theatre. The end of this film is a beautiful juxtaposition of death and rebirth. The themes of this movie regarding life and death, revenge, and growing old, it all resonates more and more as you get older in my opinion. It's a big part of why TWOK is such a timeless film. Combined with a fantastic villain and some of the best acting work from the cast, along with a fantastically executed "submarine battle in space", it's easy to see why this is so many people's favourite Trek film.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-06-06 04:09:44 +0000 UTCI love that Spock's dying, "the needs of the many....outweigh..." is rendered by your captions as "I need some money. I'll pay."
badvertised
2024-02-03 02:16:26 +0000 UTCeven just having the top 10% of the screen with blur works because it can use it to gauge color. but often in film or tv the first ten seconds doesn't have many cuts
Castanea
2023-09-15 17:57:54 +0000 UTCi've noticed that your ten seconds don't include enough information. for example if I'm a little ahead on one or the other it can take a few different scene cuts to figure it out. usually I'll figure out when is ahead and what is behind and quickly pause-unpause on the one that is ahead until they match up. just having a way to see the color change between a light and dark scene for exmaple
Castanea
2023-09-15 17:56:52 +0000 UTCI have to echo what others are saying here. Blurred video and time stamps would be a huge help. On the blurred video I can see whether the cuts line up with my version, and once it lines up I can use the timestamp to know I'm xxxx seconds different than yours. Even if there are no slight speed differences, I sometimes have to pause for life interruptions and getting back in sync requires the blurred version again.
Paul Hess
2023-09-15 17:53:49 +0000 UTCWith synching, you can't please all the people all the time BUT! Cuts and sound really help most of us to synch properly. Time counters don't always match properly and some watch the same streamed version as you do, while others are (like me in this instance) watching along with their own dvd/bluray copy. If you blur rather than block the little screen (and some creators only blur about 80% across the center without any (c) issues), it's easier to see cuts. Of course if a watcher's copy is slightly faster or slower, occasional to sometimes constant re-synching is necessary. It can be frustrating but usually is doable.
MertzRocks
2023-09-09 05:47:19 +0000 UTCOh man, I love watching your reactions to Star Trek. It is discovering it all over again, though it has never been far from my daily life. The bagpipes did cause a lot of controversy at the time. It felt over the top. I think they could’ve use some restraint there. Particularly because bag pipes are such a funny sound. I love them, but they are rather jarring. They could’ve had Savić playing a Vulcan harp. Or Uhura, even better, singing something other than amazing Grace. It became OTT and I thought that was a shame because of the impact of Spock’s death scene. I thought it was brilliant. As far as calling Savic Mr….. In the US Navy the rank of an officer determines how they may be addressed in certain situations - Ensigns, Lieutenants (and JG Lts) may be addressed as "Mister -----", regardless of gender. Recognition of the rank earned, the role and not the gender.
Diane Lynn
2023-09-07 03:06:08 +0000 UTCCopyright protections prevent them from uploading the whole film, so it's expected that you watch your own copy alongside their reaction.
Cameron Thacker
2023-09-06 03:58:20 +0000 UTCNew guy here - why can't we see the film?
Brian Gentry
2023-09-06 01:11:17 +0000 UTCYeah, a woman was addressed as Mister in "Balance of Terror."
Linda Stricker
2023-09-04 07:32:10 +0000 UTCThe Genesis Project demo was the first use of CGI in a feature film. McCoy's original line in the engine room was, "He's dead, Jim!" DeForest Kelleu refused, because it would have made the audience bust a gut laughing at the most serious point in the movie. By the way, how did you like that French horn solo playing the original theme at the very end of the end credits score?
Linda Stricker
2023-09-04 07:17:35 +0000 UTCEvery version or cut of The Motion Picture has all the stars' names in the opening credits. Nicholas Meyer wrote Time After Time (1979), starring Malcolm McDowell [Star Trek VII] as H.G. Wells, and also starring David Warner [Star Trek V, VI, TNG], and Mary Steenburgen [Back to the Future III]. Recommended! Saavik is half-Romulan, half-Vulcan, and Spock's protegée. I think the main thing you miss by watching the theatrical cut is that engineer's mate Peter Preston was the youngest child of Scotty's sister. Walter Koenig acted as a script consultant and intentionally avoided mentioning that Khan appeared in the first season and Chekov first appeared in the second season because he didn't want his part cut. Yeah, they went to the last planet in orbit in the system, which charts would have said was Ceti Alpha VI. The "wee bout" Scotty had was a reference to James Doohan's heart attack after TMP. Someone dubbed these uniforms as Monster Maroon and it stuck. Besides the elaborate, hard-to-figure-out shoulder insignias for rank, the mock-turtleneck shirts denote division (McCoy's is green for medical, for example), but sadly, they didn't follow the color scheme of TOS even for those. Shatner wore a toupé during TOS too.
Linda Stricker
2023-09-04 06:02:19 +0000 UTC"How does he know what a Klingon is?" In Space Seed (the TOS episode) he accesses the entire library computer of the Enterprise, it's how he's able to take control. He was also left on Ceti Alpha 5 with a number of books and computer memory banks to help him and his new colony. Presumably somewhere in that, was an entry on Klingon Literature.
Sarcastic Star Trek
2023-09-02 21:12:35 +0000 UTCOMG She is not a Captain in rank or position. She is an academy student. And even if she was an actual full on Lt, she would never be referred to as captain. Having the con or having the watch does not make you acting captain
Derek Orr
2023-09-02 21:09:47 +0000 UTC"Why Mr" ? Just a navy thing - MR as opposed to Officer. It's gender neutral.
Sarcastic Star Trek
2023-09-02 21:00:17 +0000 UTCoutside of the main cast, she IS the senior officer on the ship.
Sarcastic Star Trek
2023-09-02 20:59:57 +0000 UTC"I want all [the future films] to be fresh" - ehh. 2-3-4 are a trilogy. 2-3-4 and 6 are a quadrilogy if you want... but there are no more films based off of TOS episodes.
Sarcastic Star Trek
2023-09-02 20:55:58 +0000 UTC@1:41:20, yeah I was tearing up too, it's a guy thing. 👍 @2:13:13 "Makes me wonder..why" Because it was supposed to be the end of Star Trek. His death thrown at the end was to seal the journey of Trek as this film was intended to be the final chapter of the epic Star Trek creation. It was only because they later promised Nimoy a Directorial opportunity that another movie was even made. But they did leave themselves an out with the "Remember" meld, just in case. Other than that Josh, it's thrown at the end because that's the climactic story point, the death of someone we saw as invincible.
Paul Polpiboon
2023-09-02 04:57:42 +0000 UTCI'm looking forward to watching your reaction to Star Trek 3.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-09-01 00:17:58 +0000 UTCIf they don't specify, assume theatrical.
Linda Stricker
2023-08-31 14:45:50 +0000 UTCThat 10 or so seconds doesn’t help. Especially when the 10 seconds is just a moving star field. I agree you should have a least one brief clear cut a few minutes in to help out. I have had the same issue with the Star Trek movies and have never been able to sync up exactly.
StealthMomo
2023-08-29 19:40:50 +0000 UTCDo you use the 10 or so seconds of footage we show after saying go to sync up? There are no cuts in our reaction so as long as you are synced in the beginning then it shouldn't change throughout.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-08-26 18:03:42 +0000 UTCIt's the theatrical on Paramount plus.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-08-26 18:00:06 +0000 UTChey guys you rock but we gotta talk about making it so we can sync with you. in order to sync here's what I (and most of us) do: I have your video and the video both cued up. i try to aim for hitting play for when you say "go" but it's. not perfect. then I use at least 4-5 times there are clear cuts to tell if I am ahead or late and can make microadjustments. the way you've been showing this gives almost zero time to sync and doesnt' show ANY cuts. it's also possible that speeds are slight different and that can be fixed by taking a few spots where you show a min of the show. it doesnt' even have to be the full screen but enough to see the cuts and get the timing right. thanks for what you do
Castanea
2023-08-26 03:54:25 +0000 UTCunfortuantely paramont plus doesn't share weather it is the theatrical or directors cut
Castanea
2023-08-26 03:50:14 +0000 UTCI’m hoping that ST III will be posted soon.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-08-25 06:34:52 +0000 UTCIndeed he did direct Search for Spock; it was one of his conditions for returning to the franchise. He would also go on to direct The Voyage Home, as well as as the hit comedy Three Men and a Baby 🖖
Patrick47
2023-08-21 20:58:07 +0000 UTCOk, so now I want you to drop Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. When's it coming?
Tom Occhipinti
2023-08-19 20:21:24 +0000 UTCFrom what I remember reading long ago, Leonard Nimoy wanted out of the franchise to move on to other things, but changed his mind during production of Khan. Not sure, but I think he may even be the director of Search for Spock.
Scott Anderson
2023-08-19 17:04:20 +0000 UTCI remember leaving the theater as a 13 yr old, crying my eyes out after this movie.
Scott Anderson
2023-08-19 16:57:46 +0000 UTCThey reused some of the old uniforms for the Regula 1 space station scientists but the new Star fleet uniforms were all new designs and material at Nick Meyer’s request courtesy of Bob Fletcher.
Collin Freeman
2023-08-19 13:22:31 +0000 UTCSavick is not a Captain! She is a junior lieutenant just finishing up at the academy. She was given the “con” a few times when others left the bridge as she was technically higher ranking than the other cadets, that’s all.
Derek Orr
2023-08-19 07:14:31 +0000 UTCThey are not the same uniforms
Derek Orr
2023-08-18 21:31:36 +0000 UTCI think I figured out my tech issues (at least for now). Thanks to all that helped! We are a loving community dedicated to helping each other. It means a lot.
Chris S.
2023-08-18 18:08:02 +0000 UTCFrom what I understand, using "Mister" for both men and women is an old naval tradition.
Seraph Armaros
2023-08-18 17:45:54 +0000 UTCAbout 14 posts down in my list.
Seraph Armaros
2023-08-18 17:17:08 +0000 UTCThe uncut for TMP was posted nearly 3 weeks ago, easiest way to find it is under their movie collection - https://www.patreon.com/collection/1348 second post down
Dion James Pitman
2023-08-18 16:57:46 +0000 UTCThey floated the title "In Search of Spock" for the 3rd movie, as opposed to "The Search for Spock" -- in recognition of the documentary series Nimoy hosted, "In Search of." But they thought they might have some legal issues, so they changed it to the title we're familiar with.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-08-18 14:54:43 +0000 UTCI can recommend these books. They are a great explanation (via the cast of Assignment Earth) of how Khan could have secretly “ruled”the world in the 1990s based on how history unfolded
Jonathan
2023-08-18 06:17:34 +0000 UTCWhere’s TMP?
Chris S.
2023-08-18 01:10:31 +0000 UTCNot back in the 80s when this was written.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-08-17 22:55:23 +0000 UTCSeriously, I agree with the concern over spoilers. Just edit them out, or delete the comment. These guys are watching the entire franchise, trying to replicate how we saw it. To throw spoilers at them just isn't cool. My 2 cents.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-08-17 22:54:24 +0000 UTCSee I like Trek V, there was no need to link the main villain the way they did, but there a lot of good set pieces in the movie, and I love the bookends
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 17:19:37 +0000 UTCI’ve never read these but have heard good things about these two Khan books that fill in backstory. The first, “The Eugenics Wars”, takes place in the 90s and uses real world events, implying that the Khan wars were almost a covert op kind of thing happening behind the curtain: https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Original-Eugenics-Noonien/dp/1451613490/ref=asc_df_1451613490/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=343249421922&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14295490445154345060&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031149&hvtargid=pla-759991314374&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=68544634069&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=343249421922&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14295490445154345060&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031149&hvtargid=pla-759991314374 The second, “To Reign in Hell”, covers the hellish exile on Seti Alpha V after Space Seed: https://www.abebooks.com/Reign-Exile-Khan-Noonien-Singh-Star/30332521556/bd
Stuart Arbury
2023-08-16 17:09:01 +0000 UTCI think since they are going to watch in release order, like many of us fans did, they are doing the 4 movies then on to TNG, which premiered about a year after ST4.
Joe Concepts
2023-08-16 16:47:07 +0000 UTCI mean, if they went in-universe chronological they would have started with Enterprise.
CM Waters
2023-08-16 16:46:08 +0000 UTCI think the way they're doing it is for the best because the nostalgia of seeing the original cast after a few seasons of TNG will temper the disappointment of Star Trek V itself.
James H
2023-08-16 09:49:18 +0000 UTCThere's an infamous 1968 memo from Bob Justman to Gene Roddenberry titled "Missing Hair Goods," which reveals that Shatner had "borrowed" his Season 1 hairpieces during the off-season and when he returned them they were no longer "photographable," so new ones had to be made. Justman was warning Roddenberry that it was happening again after Season 2.
James H
2023-08-16 09:41:51 +0000 UTCSaavik was a Lieutenant.
James H
2023-08-16 09:32:45 +0000 UTCAlso, not actually canon, more semi-canon, in a novel written after TWOK that Gary Mitchell, from the second pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before, introduced Kirk to Carol Marcus. There was this line of dialog when Mitchell was still semi-human. Gary: Remember when I distracted you with that little blonde lab technician? Kirk: I almost married her.
StealthMomo
2023-08-16 08:28:38 +0000 UTCPlease understand. Sitting in the audience opening night, we all thought that was it. Spock was truly dead. We didn’t know there would be a third movie called The Search for Spock. Even pre-internet Star Trek had an extensive and well-informed fan base. Those of us who were plugged in knew that Leonard Nimoy was having some issues with the studio and rumors of Spock’s death were out there. As of the movies release, a large segment of us believed that Leonard wanted out and that his signing up for the second movie was contingent on Spock dying. So that last scene was VERY powerful. We believed that was the last we would see of Spock. It was felt by many that Savvik was meant to be Spock’s replacement moving forward.
StealthMomo
2023-08-16 08:23:14 +0000 UTCI know you intend to stop after 4, but really you could watch all 6 OS films, before going to TNG
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 04:56:49 +0000 UTCkirks son absolutely played into kirk's feeling of a wasted life, a life devoted to Starfleet and his ship as his love, vs his need to leave something of himself behind, you'll appreciate it more when you guys get older. Kirk said it in the movie, his life that could have been but wasn't. Regrets, and then him feeling renewed or younger by the genesis planet at the end.
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 04:52:52 +0000 UTCit was scheduling as others have said but it also was because this was a space bound version of Moby dick Khan was Captain ahab hunting his whale or Kirk, and that battle played out separately
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 04:49:39 +0000 UTCthere's a reason Moby Dick was on the bookshelf in Khans living area
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 04:47:52 +0000 UTCVulcans have strong emotions they just repress them remember and embrace logic
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 04:43:49 +0000 UTCBones will get his moments with Spock in a future film
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-08-16 04:42:38 +0000 UTCWhile I thought The Motion Picture was fine, you can see now how this movie was almost a "reboot" of the movie series. I mostly think that's true because you could easily go from TOS right into this movie and not really miss anything if you skipped movie #1. They also give us the new uniforms, but more interesting that I believe most of the ship sets including the bridge were the same as the previous movie, just with more dramatic lighting and shadows.
Joe Concepts
2023-08-16 01:34:05 +0000 UTCFor some reason the video also froze up for me, I think in the same spot.
Joe Concepts
2023-08-16 01:29:34 +0000 UTC"Mr." Chekov and "Mr." Sulu were not being addressed by the rest of the crew as if they were civilians. It has always been Navy practice throughout history (and supposedly carried into the Star Trek lore) to refer to the lowest officer rank--ensign as "Mister" regardless of the holder's sex. Not sure why they would refer to a person (Savik) holding Captain rank as "Mister." A Vulcan only thing?
John Zelinka
2023-08-16 01:22:50 +0000 UTCI don't see anyone mentioning but, the uniforms for Star Trek II to the end of the show were the same ones from the first movie, just all dyed red. And that collar was added, which had to be sewn with a special needle of which only like 2 existed or something crazy like that. The sets for TWOK are the exact same from movie I, I believe it was filmed just a few months after the first movie finished. They reused EVERYTHING from these two movies, some of the set pieces appear in episodes of TNG and the DSN/Voyager shows.
Angelaina Marie
2023-08-15 17:59:00 +0000 UTCIt was a bit strange watching this cut when the Director's Cut has been my definitive version for over 10 years. I think the only original take that is an improvement over the DC is in the revolving argument scene on Regula I. Carol's "I can not and WILL NOT subscribe to that notion." Is a lot more abrupt with an unintended hair flick in the DC. Otherwise, the removal of Midshipman Peter Preston's sub-plot hurts his sacrifice and Scotty's story, as well as the idea that everyone around Kirk gets hurt by Khan and he can't prevent it. Khan loses a lot in this movie, but so does Kirk. Every death Kirk can't prevent is one he, as Captain, is resposible for. And then Khan's actions result in Spock's death. Kirk's best friend, his right hand man. In the end, Khan did far more than kill Kirk with the Genesis Wave, he hurt him. And in a very deep way. But a way that pushed Kirk to grow. To accept himself as his middle aged self, as a father and as a more responsible commander of men. He faced death and ran with it, instead of from it. And kudos to Josh for paying attention to the timeline, noting that TMP took place 2.5 years after the original/animated series and this film, TWoK, is set 15 years after "Space Seed," meaning that ~8 years between the first and second films I think? In that time, Kirk took the Enterprise on another 5 year mission sfter V'Ger, returned, accepted his desk job and the Enterprise was turned into a teaching ship for Starfleet Academy, with a promoted Spock acting as a teacher. Oh, and Starfleet updated it's uniforms (the actors insisted) There's a whole swathe of lore continually left unexplored. But given the bent of modern day writing, I'm fine leaving it all a mystery. Also worth noting, while Kirk is mad at Khan for all the damage he's done up to the scene in the Genesis cave, when Khan taunts that Kirk will be buried alive and the Enterprise attacked, Kirk already knows the Enterprise is not as crippled as they lead Khan to belive and that the transporters will be fixed soon enough, giving them all an escape route. So his iconic shout of "KHAAAAN!" was just as much to sell the ploy to Khan as it was genuine. Kirk is acting himself in that moment, playing into Khan's ego. And so begins Star Trek's awesome and great use of shot, model and VFX reuse by contextualizing it. Lotta shots reused from TMP, as are the sets, and believe me, moving forward you're gonna spot elements from the following movies used in new ways. The Mutara Nebula shows up as at least 2 different nebulae I think. They basically use the movies bigger budget to provide the shows with better shots to reuse. And y'kniw what? I think it works pretty darn well. Star Trek has always been better on a limited budget when the crew has to innovate a little bit more. This is no more evident that in the movies. 1st movie 44mil, recieved as boring and dull (theatrical cut of course) the 2nd 14 mil, did gang busters. 3rd movie got a higher budget as a result, did okay, but nothing like TWoK, 4th, smaller budget, huge success, 5th, big bidget, seen as awful. Trek is better when they can't afford it. It's weird. And now, the new stuff costs crazy amounts it seems and IMO, sucks worse than "The Alternative Factor."
Nolan
2023-08-15 17:19:48 +0000 UTCVery nice analysis and summation. Although this film has more action than TMP, it still has adult themes that it addresses like classic TOS, including 1) revenge and it’s cost 2) the advancing of age and feeling “old, worn out” and how that affects a person’s total outlook on life 3) death 4) the sins of the fathers (Kirk and Khan) and how they come back to haunt us later. They basically cut any reference to Joachim being Khan’s son. Such great stuff.
Collin Freeman
2023-08-15 16:10:44 +0000 UTCDavid/Kirk’s son subplot- this REALLY improves when you rewatch the film. This is Kirk’s story, and it’s a wonderful, mature deconstruction of the “galavanting hero” archetype. You watched years of this guy swooping in, saving the day, smooching the ladies, a hero yes but also an egomaniac. Now WRATH OF KHAN picks up with him in his 50s. Bored, static, stuck behind a desk… and still full of ego, not giving a second thought to the consequences and ripple effects of his actions. Khan is one of those consequences. So is David (khan wasn’t the only “seed” planted if you catch my drift). Kirk not being in his sons life growing up doesn’t make him a bad person- it was agreed upon with Carol. But it does make him a total absent father. Doesn’t seem like he fought back when she declared she “wanted David in her life”. So him grappling with David, with an enemy from the past, with a last minute victory that’s only possible when his best friend sacrifices himself- it’s all part of the same theme. Kirk being a dad is not a retcon that wrecks the original series. The characterization in 60s shows was often surface level and of-the-moment. Him having a son out there, knowing his son is in good hands with Carol, leaving Kirk free to hop around the Galaxy “guilt free”, it totally tracks with the original show. And wrath of khan shows that even though everything was above board with the decision to have David raised exclusively by Carol, OF COURSE David would resent his father when they come face to face. What a rich movie for grownups. In an age where superhero movies are dominant and every character is quipping like sarcastic teenagers, Wrath of Khan is a great example of a movie that improves as you age.
Stuart Arbury
2023-08-15 15:19:47 +0000 UTCLoved the display of emotion at the end as it just shows how invested you are in these characters
AzoriusMage
2023-08-15 13:11:04 +0000 UTCVery nice reaction! This is almost universally regarded as the best Trek film, and your reaction did it justice.
Chuck Rice
2023-08-15 12:23:47 +0000 UTCThat is so cool! I saw that reel at a sci fi convention the first weekend in April. I remember after I first saw the film thinking “why did they cut some of those scenes?”
Collin Freeman
2023-08-15 11:30:11 +0000 UTCAlex deserves a prize for correctly guessing about Kirk and Kahn having a sword fight, but that was in one of the early screenplay drafts. Meyer took three different screenplays and picked different elements from each to combine into his own re-write.
Numinous2019
2023-08-15 08:40:19 +0000 UTCThe TOS films were each made without any firm plans about the next film. The first two were each considered to be the end of TOS by Paramount. After that the films kept making enough money for the studio to make another (although the sixth was more touch and go).
Numinous2019
2023-08-15 08:07:17 +0000 UTCUntil about 10 years ago, I thought Shatner only wore a wig after TOS (i.e. middle aged hair loss). Re-watching TOS 10 years ago I realised why Shatner's hairstyle changed each season. As far as I can remember, his first season wig was misplaced (or possibly stolen from his studio rest room). Shatner wrote about a heated argument he had with Nimoy about entering this room without arrangement (which leads me to believe he didn't want anyone to know he wore a hair piece).
Numinous2019
2023-08-15 08:04:24 +0000 UTCI started watching you guys on TOS S01E05. The minute I saw you react to Space Seed I knew this was going to be a great reaction watch from you guys. But then to see you guys develop into true fans of the show, and for all the right reasons, you brought back the same discovery and joy I felt when I first watched the series in my youth. So once you started the movies I knew I had to join you in the full watch alongs and make you guys my first patreon channel. Worth every bit of time investment to get here with you two. I've seen this movie nearly 200 times, I can quote it start to finish, and it is always emotional to some degree, but seeing you guys react to Spocks death like the true fans you are, hit me right in the feels. Glad to be here on your "continuing voyage" and cant wait to see you two "boldly going" into the greater Star Trek universe. PS. Do yourselves a HUGE favor and watch the subsequent movies and shows by their release date. They start overlapping the series and also the movies and those timings matter to solid fans like you. And dont skip ST5 or ST6! ST6 is a masterpiece of its own (on par with ST2) and ST5 really highlights the Kirk, Spock, Bones triad relationship.
DonMiguel
2023-08-15 05:12:46 +0000 UTCA little more trivia: the Genesis presentation was one of the first fully CGI segments in a movie, done by the people who would eventually become Pixar. The San Francisco background in Kirk's apartment window used a diorama for the city created for 1974's Towering Inferno. They built a couple futuristic miniature buildings with moving elevators in front of the backdrop to complete the view. The diorama was later used again in Die Hard.
Mike Rogers
2023-08-15 04:19:30 +0000 UTCEveryone: have a look at this ST2 preview reel, probably made to show to theater owners. It contains alternate takes and deleted moments not available in either version of the movie, including the lines about Savick's heritage. https://youtu.be/ZlJwYyWjGLA
Mike Rogers
2023-08-15 04:12:09 +0000 UTCIt occurred to me while watching your discussion at the end of the video how protective I am of this film. I was 16 when it came out and it brought my Star Trek Fandom to another level. I had the novelisation in which Saavik is described as half Vulcan/half romulan (which they abandoned for the films). I'm not even going to mention where I disagree, it's just really powerful to me how much I love this film. I've probably watched it 20 times (at least).
Rich Wagener
2023-08-15 02:47:01 +0000 UTCEven before 'TWOK' was released, the title of the 3rd film was already announced. I remember reading it in 'Starburst' magazine and the article writer saying that it put paid to the widespread rumours that Spock was to be killed off in the second film.
Numinous2019
2023-08-15 02:46:58 +0000 UTCI just remembered something I recently read in the comment section of another reaction video for this movie: Kirk has always relied on his two friends to give him insight, Spock with his logic and McCoy with his humanism. Finding one of the two lenses of his reading glasses broken after Spock's death is symbolic of the loss of one of his two trusted advisors.
David Felgate
2023-08-15 02:35:35 +0000 UTCI could write books about this movie but I’ll stick to 2 big praises. 1- an absolute banger score from 28-year-old James “Titanic/Braveheart” Horner, who knocks it out of the park in his first big studio gig. I swear this and Star Trek III were big reasons why he was the right man for Titanic- he knows how to compose music for “Grand Majestic Ships”. The track “Genesis Countdown” is an all timer- moving between all the main themes (Kirk Theme, Enterprise Theme, Khan motif) as the movie reaches its big climax, giving a big heroic burst as the ship gets away, only for the music to take a dark turn when Bones says “Jim, you better get down here” and Kirk sees the empty chair… 2- the moment where Spock rises from the chair as Kirk says “Scotty, I need warp speed or we’re all dead”. The way Nimoy plays that, he thinks, “I’m going to die… it’s the only logical thing to do”. In Roger Ebert’s review of the film, he said “Spock makes a choice in this film that would only be made by a hero, a fool, or a Vulcan.” That sums it up I’ve seen this movie 50 times and I cry every time. I cried just watching you guys.
Stuart Arbury
2023-08-15 02:22:07 +0000 UTCAs has been mentioned, Leonard Nimoy was essentially lured back to playing Spock with the mention of him getting to play a death scene. Jack Sowards and Harve Bennett took their stab at writing early drafts which featured Khan and a group of young rebels, one of whom was Kirk’s son. Spock died at the first encounter with Khan at the end of the 1st act and then Kirk raced to take over command of the Enterprise and pursue Khan. I think there was even supposed to be a brief face to face confrontation between Kirk and Khan. After Nick Meyer was brought on board as director, they had 3-4 stories/scripts. Meyer told the production staff, tell me what you like from each of these scripts, and then wrote the final script from that amalgamation, without getting a credit. Along the way, it had been leaked (reportedly by Roddenberry) that Spock would die, which created a huge uproar amongst fans. Meyer therefore decided to use the Kobayashi Maru scenario as a bait and switch to throw off the audience and save Spock’s death scene as the climax of the film. No expectation of bringing the character back. I can tell you back then, this movie was a very big deal. Fans, including myself, said “This should have been the first movie.” Many were also disappointed about no in person confrontation between Kirk and Khan, and also that Khan does not live to see the Enterprise escape his suicide trap. But hey, they did it their way and I can certainly live with the way it came out. I have see seen this movie conservatively at least 3 dozen times and I still get choked up and even cry at Spock’s death scene and funeral.
Collin Freeman
2023-08-15 01:15:20 +0000 UTCI have seen this film conservatively about 3 dozen times and it still gets me every time. So well played.
Collin Freeman
2023-08-15 00:53:35 +0000 UTCIf you guys are interested in the difference between the Theatrical and Director's cut, this video does an excellent job showcasing the differences. I stand by the Theatrical cut being better paced and using better takes of the scenes, but as has been mentioned there's a couple details that add a little more background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_s4ULn4yw8 Maybe it would be fun to react to it and see what you think of the differences? :-)
Bret Kay
2023-08-14 23:37:36 +0000 UTCI think they’re going the Mark Watches route, watching everything in airdate order instead of in-universe chronological order.
Adam Reid
2023-08-14 23:24:50 +0000 UTCHello to anyone who reads this far. Shatner lost most of his hair at a young age. He's been wearing a toupee forever, probably even since the Twilight Zone episodes. This was Kirstie Alley's first movie. She had no idea what she was getting herself into Star Trek fan wise. She basically disowned the fandom and it wasn't until she was much older that she returned to the do conventions and such.
Edweirdo
2023-08-14 22:51:41 +0000 UTCPractical reasons beyond anyone's control often contribute to how a movie is filmed. Ricardo Montalban filmed his scenes separately (from Shatner) simply to accommodate his "Fantasy Island" production schedule. (He played the lead role in that TV series, "Mr. Roarke.") That was a disappointment to all of us, not seeing them together in the same set anywhere in the story, but there are production stills of the cast and crew online which show he and Shatner sitting side by side in the front row of the large group, just outside the Paramount Pictures main gate at 5555 Melrose Ave, in Los Angeles.
Rhett Coates
2023-08-14 22:41:50 +0000 UTCYes, Ricardo Mantalban WAS INDEED in great shape for this movie: yes, that was his REAL chest.
Rhett Coates
2023-08-14 22:36:24 +0000 UTCI think that's really the only Director/extended edition inclusion that really adds something to the movie. The other changes I've seen mentioned are interesting, but I think the theatrical cut is fine as it is, beyond that extra info.
Joe Concepts
2023-08-14 22:30:50 +0000 UTCBoth of you expressed your dismay at how Savvik was often called "MISTER"..... that's a military term, or so I'm told by friends who are in the Navy, of how all new cadets are formally addressed by certain superior officers while on active duty, regardless of their gender. I have read numerous reports that Gene Roddenberry didn't fully appreciate the more "militaristic" look and feel of the Enterprise (and the Reliant) in TWOK, but it would later grow on him, apparently thanks to VERY positive fan reaction to this story.
Rhett Coates
2023-08-14 22:30:02 +0000 UTCThis was KIRSTY ALLEY's debut role - her FIRST movie role in her career! When she went on to do the TV series Cheers, also at Paramount, a BUNCH of others in the cast of Cheers (--and later, of Fraiser--) would also guest-star on future Star Trek episodes, in various spinoff series in the franchise. I will leave their appearance as a PLEASANT SURPRISE for your future viewing!
Rhett Coates
2023-08-14 22:21:26 +0000 UTCTwo production items that are worth noting for their interest: First, Industrial Light & Magic (ILM, the "Star Wars" people) did the special effects for this feature, and would go on to do the same for several more ST movies. (Many of the Star Wars people are Trekkies.) Second, the music was written by James Horner, the same composer for James Cameron's TITANIC, which featured Horner's tune "My Heart Will Go On Forever." Listen again to the score behind the scene after Khan's first, horrific attack and note the music as Spock relates "They knew exactly where to hit us....." The scene in TITANIC on their bridge just after they strike the iceberg is basically the same song composed by James Horner, made as a "VARIATION" (revised/derived form) of the bridge post-attack scene music heard in TWOK. Also of note is how Horner revised the b8ackground music in the build-up to the Genesis detonation: he re-used a variation of that in the movie "COCOON" (directed by Ron Howard, whos' younger brother, Clint, played "Balok" in "The Corbomite Maneuver" - TOS Season 1) - during the boat chase sequence just before the movie's climax. Those re-used versions are welcome to many of us Trekkies who are also musicians.
Rhett Coates
2023-08-14 22:16:23 +0000 UTCNow that you've seen TWOK, search - on any internet site you can find it posted to - the ONE extended scene where Kirk first comes aboard the Big E and goes to Engineering for the inspection tour. There is dialogue there regarding the young cadet "Peter Preston" which makes a later scene, JUST AFTER Khan's brutal, initial attach, make SO much sense as to why Scotty would bring a burned up cadet to the bridge instead of going straight to Sickbay................................................... That's all I'll say about it here, except that I would LOVE to see how both of you guys react when you find out how tremendously profound that revelation truly is. THAT should have been left in the theatrical release, IMHO, and maybe you'll think the same thing when you see it, to.
Rhett Coates
2023-08-14 22:09:49 +0000 UTCI think I agree there was no need for a face off which Kirk would only lose
AzoriusMage
2023-08-14 21:34:10 +0000 UTCThe genesis effect inside the moon made me think of Rendezvous with Rama
AzoriusMage
2023-08-14 21:33:16 +0000 UTCThe Project Genesis demo tape wasn't just the first CGI used in Star Trek but the first completely CGI sequence in any movie.
Martin Wiggan
2023-08-14 21:11:55 +0000 UTCJust found another thing: "Director Nicholas Meyer was very keen to introduce military (Naval specifically) parlance and nomenclature into the movie, and "Mister" is a respectful form of military address to subordinates." Which fits, because I also heard Nicholas Meyer talk in interviews about how in their movies they wanted Star Fleet to be a bit more like a real military, something that Roddenberry had actually not been a fan of. That's why the uniforms in these movies look more formal when Roddenberry initially didn't even want to use any rank insignia initially. So this fits that idea. They tried to stick to military terminology for Star Fleet more.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 20:52:45 +0000 UTCI read up on it as well. The Script writers justification seems to have been that Mister was the correct way to adresse the First Mate aboard a ship of any gender, Mister being used like a rank. Also in many militaries, like mine, male rank titles, even the ones containing the word "man" are not changed for women. And yes now Ma'am is used but that wasn't a constant and for a while everybody was addressed with Sir. So this is indeed a military thing, not an attempt at woke stuff.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 20:45:33 +0000 UTCOh and I forgot to mention, the reference to Newton, Einstein and Surak was a nice little reference to "The Savage Curtain" where a facsimile of Surak appeared alongside Abraham Lincoln. Spock's shuttle in TMP was also called the Surak.
Dion James Pitman
2023-08-14 20:41:51 +0000 UTCExactly. The "remember " scene Was something Nimoy improvized on the Spot for that purpose. @Targetaudience You'll see how that plays into things. At the time the makers themselves didn't know that yet.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 20:40:50 +0000 UTCI recently read parts of Moby Dick and was aware of thst side. Awesome to see Kirk's side being represented by another novel. I'll have to read thst one too.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 20:38:38 +0000 UTCAs will on location scene and planets :)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 20:32:37 +0000 UTCI mean that is not even that hard to believe. There's several hundred people aboard after all. Chekov could even have been on the night shift of the bridge. In a TNG Episode we see three young ensigns compete for Promotion to that same Position. So they are on Board before getting that permanent seat on the bridge.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 20:30:53 +0000 UTCmind blown. I love it when connections like that are made, that aren't confirmed necessarily and probably never will be unless embraced and adopted by a writer later, but just seem to make perfect sense. that one works for me, thanks for that
James Bottas
2023-08-14 19:56:02 +0000 UTCAbout the Genesis Explosion. Not sure if you noticed.. but the very moment the genesis device exploded the entire Mutara Nebula immediately vanished... absorbed by the device to create its new life. That would have happened to the ENterprise as well if Spock hadn't repaired the warp drive, that's why they needed warp. At impulse they wouldn't have been able to get away fast enough. In any case I love that special effects shot because it really shows how much the device is absorbing and how powerful it is.. the nebula completely vanishing in an instant, used to create the new planet.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 19:44:05 +0000 UTCNot sure if anybody has mentioned it yet: That black thing you saw getting loaded duringthe battle montage and what Spock ended up getting burried in was a Photon Torpedo casing. Star Fleet also uses it for burials in space. They take out the anti-matter warhead. That makes just enough room for an adult humanoid. But regularly those things are the torpedoes they fire. The funeral took place in the torpedo bay. Remember those torpedos. Their look will stay consistent and you'll see them in all the future shows :) And speaking of props... for the disgusting scene with that "ear worm" ceature they made an enlarged mold of Chekov's ear. So that wasn't actually a closeup, that was a giant ear :D I think they still have it somewhere in storage.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 19:31:24 +0000 UTCI was crying even before
AzoriusMage
2023-08-14 19:27:41 +0000 UTCBecause it's beautifully written. I mean, it's Spock. :)
Steven Johnson
2023-08-14 19:24:09 +0000 UTC😭how can it still get me I know exactly what is going to happen.
AzoriusMage
2023-08-14 18:12:35 +0000 UTC"Or the one"
David Felgate
2023-08-14 17:42:59 +0000 UTCThanks for making me have a "day drinking" day on a Monday.
Prof Moff
2023-08-14 17:16:32 +0000 UTCSpock's sacrifice was clearly thought out by him. He knew he was going to die. Nothing could prevent that. However, activating the warp drive by hand gave the crew of the Enterprise a chance to survive. He said it clearly to Kirk, "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few."
Mark Chrisco
2023-08-14 17:06:10 +0000 UTCAccording to Nicholas Meyer, while working on the script he happened to grab a book from his library. It turned out to be A Tale of Two Cities. He immediately realized it's two most famous quotes would make great bookends. So, it's that book, Meyer's personal copy of A Tale of Two Cities that Kirk is given, reads and quotes from during the film.
Mark Chrisco
2023-08-14 16:55:46 +0000 UTCA lot has been said by everyone else here already so I won't go over some of the more popular factoids which have already been covered such as Chekov, Khan and the bathroom story, but here are a few observations: Yeah Kirk has a great view from his apartment, but can you imagine just how much that view of San Francisco Bay would cost today if it were real lol The mention of 2283 on the bottle of Romulan ale is interesting but I'll have more to say about dates in a future reaction, though Andreas has already mentioned a couple of things. Botany Bay was the landing point of Captain James Cook in Australia. It was originally going to be the site of a penal colony to replace the ones in Virginia and Maryland that were lost by the British after the American Revolution, although in the end the convicts ended up setting in the next inlet a few miles to the north and that colony eventually grew into the city of Sydney. This is somewhat referred to in "Space Seed" when Kirk notes the name of the ship and decides to let Khan go settle on Ceti Alpha V. He was hoping that Khan's group would be a "space seed" and end up creating something akin to Australia but obviously that plan got ruined six months later. I went to Botany Bay earlier this year during a trip to Australia (I live in New Zealand). I made a Tik Tok using Chekov's "Botany Bay...Botany Bay" dialogue. Botany Bay also has the site of Sydney Airport on its shores now lol. A lot of stuff was reused from TMP. For example, Regula 1 space station model was in TMP but for TWOK it was turned upside down. The Three Klingon ships are actually the ones from TMP, Enterprise leaving the dock was from TMP etc.
Dion James Pitman
2023-08-14 16:52:52 +0000 UTCThe movie takes place in 2285. The TOS era is the second half of the 23rd century. TNG will take place in the second half of the 24th century, from 2364 to 2370. TOS took place roughly 2266–2269, so basically the real year plus 300 years.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 16:32:57 +0000 UTCThe Moby Dick quote is "Aye, aye! and I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up." And "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee." It's definitely a good way to turn Moby Dick into a Sci Fi movie.. showing how obsessive revenge can destroy a man.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 15:36:41 +0000 UTCIf you asked me what bothers me the most about the movie (even though I love it), it's that Kirk basically get's Scotty's nephew killed by ignoring regulations and not raising the shields immediately. That's also something that generally bothers me with scripts about military commands in general. This concept that experienced commanders will just ignore regulations. It seems some writers think that those regulations are made up by beaurocrats in an office somewhere and the front line guys know better. But that's not how that works. Regulations are created at the recommendation of experienced commanders. They come back from the battlefield, get debriefed and make recommendations for guidelines, training and regulations based on their experience of what works and what doesn't. So it makes zero sense here for Kirk to ignore such obviously correct regulations like "if you encounter a ship and you cannot talk to them and you have no idea what's going on, raise the shields". Kirk not doing that was just stupid. Considering that this negligence caused several deaths, he'd face a court martial for this in real life and be relieved of command.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 15:25:16 +0000 UTCAlso not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet. Remember the second pilot of TOS, the spisode "Where no one has gone before" with Kirk's best friend Gary Mitchell becoming a super human? Gary Mitchell talks about introducing Kirk to "that blonde lab technician" and Kirk says "I almost married her". It has been suggested that this may have been Carol Markus. Therefore Gary Mitchell is responsible for Kirk having a son.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 15:12:25 +0000 UTCRegarding Kirk and Khan not being in a scene together: Personally that never bothered me, I liked it in fact. This is showing that Kirk is the better captain, the better commander, the better leader. This isn't about them having a fist fight or who's the strong man. It's about leadership and responsibiliy. Kirk is victorious not because he's the more powerful man, but because he's the better Captain and leader. He's more experienced and his people trust him without question, because they know he won't sacrifice them for petty reasons. But Khan? He's inexperienced, makes tons of mistakes because of that, is constantly being criticized, shouts every order, constantly overrides his subordinate's decisions and doesn't care how many of them he has to sacrifice as long as he gets his revenge. I think that's a much better way to show the difference between these two men. Even in the end.. Khan has sacrificed everybody on his ship for his petty reasons, and even in the end feels no regret but even tells his dead crewman that he will avenge him.. Meanwhile on Kirk's ship, Spock sacrifices himself for Kirk and the rest of his friends, out of TRUE loyalty and respect. Clearly showing the difference and WHY Kirk is the winner. Kirk inspired trust, friendship and loyalty. Khan did not. If you have them confront eachother directly, then it's no longer about who's the better leader. You take away their crews. Then it's man to man and no longer about leadership.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 15:03:23 +0000 UTCIn regards to Khan failing: Yes that's exactly why genetic engineering was banned after this. Superior intellect wasn't the only thing about them. EVERYTHING was enhances. Intellect and strength but also ambition, hunger for power, lust for revenge etc. That's what made them so totally out of control. They were dangerous, but not in the way of a smart general, more like a really smart psychopath that is completely out of control and completely unhinged. That's why Kirk could defeat him and that's probably how they were defeated during the Eugenics Wars on Earth. They were intelligent but they just didn't know when to stop because their ambition and need for revenge and power was just too strong. And it also show that even the smartest person can still lose to someone who may be not as intelligent but simply has more experience. That's why even the biggest talent still needs time to learn and needs a teacher. It's kind of the same message that the movie "Good Will Hunting" had. When Robin Williams character says "You may have read all books about romance ever written, but you have never truly loved a woman. You may have read all books about geography but you've never visited any of these places and felt the amosphere and met the people."
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:52:55 +0000 UTCOthers have mentioned it but I just wanted to go into it a bit more: When the Rliant approached the Enterprise, Kirk didn't raise the shields immediately, even though Saavik told him that is regulation if encountering another Star Ship while being unable to communicate with them. So Kirk REALLY screwed up there. That's why he's pissed at himself when Sulu says "You did it, sir". He says "I did nothing! Except getting caught with my britches down" He then tells Saavik to go ahead and keep quoting regulations. When he then communicates with Spock, Spock tells him "If we go by the book, like Lt Saavik, hours would seem like days". Regulation says that if there's suspicion that an enemy might overhear communications on an insecure channel, you should use some form of code. So that's what they do. They switch days for hours and vice versa. That's why they could contact the enterprise earlier than exepected.. the repairs didn't take 6 days, just 6 hours. And the Enterprise wasn't supposed to leave after one hour but instead after one day. "By the book".
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:36:45 +0000 UTCOne thing I am not ashamed to admit: When Kirk's says that Spock was the most human of all the beings he's encountered in his travels.... when his voice breaks saying that... I have never watched that scene without tearing up... Kirk's voice breaking, saying goodbye to his best friend, gets me every time.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:30:57 +0000 UTCI'm actually not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but if not I'm surprised: The difference between the director's cut and this release was going into who "Peter Preston" was... the young cadet that died... Scotty wasn't just heart broken because that was one of his students... that was actually his nephew... the cut scenes restored in the director's cut explain that. Scotty lost a family member here. I think it was supposed to be his sister's son...
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:26:01 +0000 UTCAbsolutely. I've heard detractors say the film isn't deep, but when you pull back and look at the mechanics of the way the film layers the themes, it's quite deep. Also the more subtle of the stack of books is Paradise Lost/Milton. Khan's reference at the end of Space Seed. The angel cast from the heavens to reign in Hell. Khan absolutely has a Luciferian complex in this film and doesn't see the consequences of his vengeance upon his followers. It's always been my take that both McCoy and Spock were telling Kirk the same thing, just in their own ways. McCoy, of course, the more direct and emotional way "Get it back before you turn into this collection" and Spock "None that I am conscious of. Except, of course, happy birthday. Surely, the best of times." Spock's sly, subtle way of saying, "hey, you're still here, and you can still pursue life to its fullest."
Steven Johnson
2023-08-14 14:25:10 +0000 UTCAs others have mentioned, referring to Saavik as "Mr" is just military terminology, has nothing to do with her gender. From what I know in most militaries you say "mr" and "sir" even if it's a woman, unless the woman is a superior and says she prefers Ma'am or something. I think some future female officer will prefer Ma'am, but the default is male for everybody. In the German military the term for Captain is "Hauptmann" which basically translaters to "main man", and that is not changed into "Hauptfrau" or "main woman", the male form is maintained. That's how it works for most militaries. And since others have already mentioned it, Saavik WILL return as a character, but she'll be recast. I think it was a money thing. Personally I liked the new actress much better, but it'll be interesting to see which performance you prefer. She and Spock were meant to be very close, he was her mentor. She's half Vulcan half Romulan, so like Spock not fully Vulcan and has more emotions. The younger crew with the yellow top uniforms were the cadets. They were still in training and not yet full officers. Technically the Enterprise in this movie was a training ship and no longer in active service, so most of the crew were students or the academy. That's why their uniform is different.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:22:38 +0000 UTCI can think of one, but only one, instance where a woman was called "Mister" in TOS. It was in Balance of Terror, when Robert Tomlinson said to his fiancee (and subordinate) Angela Martine, "Get with it, Mister." From something I once read... At the wrap party for this movie, when principal photography was over, Leonard Nimoy surprised everyone present by saying, "I'm looking forward to doing Star Trek III." It may have been after that incident that they decided to do the shot of Spock's torpedo casing on the planet - just in case. Technology note: That demo tape they watched for Project Genesis was the first CGI used in Star Trek, slightly predating the first CGI in Star Wars (the 3D projection of the Death Star obtained from the Bothan spies). Up to this point, everything had happened to Chekov except getting stuffed in a locker. This movie remedied that omission.
James H
2023-08-14 14:18:27 +0000 UTCThey were very close. I read one ST novel about them. It was really well written.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:14:48 +0000 UTCIt's an interesting contrast that Khan keeps quoting Moby Dick and Kirk ends up quoting from A Tale of Two Cities (the book Spock gave him for his birthday). Vengeful self-destruction vs. noble self-sacrifice in literary allusions.
James H
2023-08-14 14:11:07 +0000 UTCFrom what I remember the "Mister" part is actually the correct way to adress the first mate aboard a ship in the Navy. So that was less about a male way of adressing a person but the correct way to adress an officer in her specific position. For example Kirk is an Admiral, but if he's in command of a Star Ship the theoretical correct way to address him is "captain" because that's his position aboard the ship. "Mister" is how the First Mate is addressed.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-08-14 14:10:07 +0000 UTCBoth Shatner and Ricardo shared your disappointment in not getting to have a scene together. They did want one, but I think for it to happen in this story it would have required contriving a scenario. I think the wisdom was that they're both old guys and it would potentially look "hokey." Ricardo in particular had a hard time because he had to keep that intensity up... Against a very soft spoken female PA Spock is. the friend we all want. We want a brother we *know* would take one for us. Spock didn't say anything. He didn't ask, he didn't announce what he was going to do. He calculates for just a moment, considers, gets up, and goes. Which is what heroes do. Real heroes, every day. They consider and they just do it, even though it may mean their life. That is why his death can hurt even for people who have never seen any Star Trek before. Nimoy is so comfortable in the role. There's a reason his autobiography went from "I Am Not Spock" to "I Am Spock." In an interview somewhere he mentions, at some point the lines for him blurred and he wasn't entirely sure where the two separate. He adopted a lot of Spock's philosophy as his own. I'm sure someone did explain this to you by now, but just in case, the whole thing with the coded message was setup at the start of the conversation. Spock says "If we were to go by the book like Lieutenant Saavik, hours would seem like days." And so any time one of them says "day" they mean "hour" and vice versa. So when Kirk says "If you don't hear from us within one hour (day) take the Enterprise out of the area." and when Spock says "Restoration may be possible... In two days (hours)... by the book, admiral." Re: McCoy not crying at the funeral. while I do agree that seeing him break would have been emotional, because... He loved Spock. No matter the jabbing, all you have to do is watching episodes like Amok Time to know that McCoy loved Spock. Spock, looking vulnerable looks at McCoy and asks with a shakey voice "I would also like Dr. McCoy to accompany me as well." And McCoy says "I would be honored, sir." Brothers. Really, you want them all to have a moment, but at the same time the pacing of the scene has to be considered. Yeah, Khan's wrath isn't destroying Starfleet or wiping out planets (unlike the JJ films, curse them), his revenge, in the end, is as he said to "hurt" Kirk. He does hurt him. Deeply. Kills and injuries young bright-eyed cadets, and kills his best friend. When you rewatch the film you should take a good look at his book shelf. All the things he's saying are the quotes of the books that he had to read for 15 years. Over, and over, and over. Where a lesser writer would just rip Moby Dick off, Khan's character is being directly informed by King Lear, Paradise Lost, Moby Dick. That's ALL he had to read for over a decade. It's interesting to note, again, without spoilers, that what was done here was not intended to be the start of a story arc. As far as Nick Meyer was concerned this was a one and done thing. They killed Spock, The End... But audience reactions were negative. Loved the movie. Hated the ending. The movie originally ended with the torpedo being fired and the ship flying off. We didn't go down to Genesis, and we didn't end with Spock's voice doing the mission statement.. Harve Bennet described the audience reaction to the first cut as "funeral. People walked out, heads down, crying, completely silent." When they changed the ending the audience "Rose as one, tears in their eyes with uniramous applause."
Steven Johnson
2023-08-14 10:49:39 +0000 UTCTWOK was absolutely pivotal to the rest of Star Trek going forward. It recaptured much of the magic of TOS I think but also doesn’t seem dated. You are in for a treat as I think the next two films are just as good. Unfortunately for me my cousin spoiled the ending before I was able to see the film myself, and I didn’t get to see it at a cinema at all. I was put off watching it until before the next film came out for that reason. With the next film there’s only 1 version so no need for a poll. Watch it soon!
Paul Rymer
2023-08-14 10:26:39 +0000 UTCSaavik was a Vulcan/Romulan hybrid Spock found as a very young child. He made her his ward and served as a mentor/Father figure to her, explaining his obviois interest in her performance and her tears at his loss.
Mark Chrisco
2023-08-14 10:14:31 +0000 UTCThis was going to be the second (and only further) film, as I understand it. Several drafts were written, with different plots. Finally, a director with no exposure to the original series came in. He took the best elements from the various drafts and rapidly turned around a completed screenplay. He was going through the episodes of the original series, looking for inspiration. He stopped at Space Seed. He inserted some naval terms to reinforce the notion of a naval like scenario. He says in the dvd commentary that he added the “in the 23rd century at the beginning” to clue his mother in on when this takes place. I suspect that the pronoun of “mister” for Saavik was an attempt to homogenize naval terminology. Everyone would be referred to as “mister”. In order to save on budget, presumably due to wariness about the film’s success, they disguised and reused some footage from the first film. Ricardo Mantalban was filming a hit tv series called Fantasy Island. All of his scenes were filmed a weekend prior to the main cast beginning production on the rest of the film. In one of the deleted moments that is preserved in the director’s cut, Kirk walks around Engineering just after the whistle announces his arrival. Scotty introduces this young cadet, Peter Preston. It’s engineering mate Preston’s first training voyage. Scotty says he’s “my sister’s youngest admiral. Eager to get to space.” In one of the Mike Okuda official guidebooks (Encyclopedia or Chronology), I remember a footnote to the effect that Dr Carol Marcus was supposed to be that little blonde lab technician mentioned in Where No Man Has Gone Before. BTW, Kirk’s son seemed to be a thematic reminder of Kirk getting older. In the novelization, Saavik is mentioned as a Vulcan/Romulan hybrid. As they were filming, the director proposed to Leonard Nimoy an idea: how would you like a dramatic death scene. As this film seemed to be potentially great, some thought came to inject vague elements that could be used in order to create a sequel. That’s why Spock tells McCoy, “Remember”. News of Spock’s death leaked out to the fandom, so they had Spock and the crew “die” at the beginning to throw viewers off who were expecting that death.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-08-14 08:22:36 +0000 UTCI agree with all of the criticisms you had of this movie. I agree Scotty looked dumb but the bagpipe music always makes me cry. I know I’m in the minority but the maroon uniforms are my favorite. I have fond memories of tng but the uniforms still looked like pajamas. The director of this movie did a big chunk of the writing but couldn’t get credit due to union rules. He met with Nimoy to convince him. Nimoy didn’t demand that Spock get killed but it was an interesting idea to him. Gene Roddenberry leaked Spock was going to die because he didn’t like it or the whole movie. He wanted The Enterprise to get involved in the JFK assassination. They added the simulation at the beginning so test audiences think it’s a fake out about Spock dying, and enjoy the movie before Spock does die. That’s also why Kirks first line to Spock in the hallway is “Aren’t you dead” They were still really upset about it that’s when they added tidbits like Remember and showing the casket and the narration before they released the movie still thinking it would be a slim chance for any more sequels.
Jonathan
2023-08-14 08:06:18 +0000 UTCWalter Koenig was, of course, aware he was not on the episode with Khan. But his bigger part in the movie had him not point it out. In lore, it is just assumed Chekov was in the Enterprise but on the lower decks, before he was a bridge officer.
Mike Rogers
2023-08-14 07:39:44 +0000 UTCIn lines filmed but later cut from Kirk and Spock's talk at Starfleet headquarters after the training simulation, Spock mentions that Savick is a Romulan/Vulcan hybrid. This is why she is more emotional.
Mike Rogers
2023-08-14 07:31:48 +0000 UTCIt was the director's idea to have a more military formality than was shown on Star Trek before.
Mike Rogers
2023-08-14 07:27:46 +0000 UTCLeonard Nimoy did not enjoy the experience of filming TMP with all the production hassles and changing screenplay, so he was reluctant to return for 2. The producer suggested he come back one last time and they would kill off Spock. Nimoy was intrigued with that idea so he agreed. Things ran much smoother and Nimoy had a great time filming Star Trek 2 and was almost sorry Spock was going to die, but it was believed this might be the last Star Trek film anyway. With good test screening and buzz about the film, test audiences and fans were still upset about Spock being killed off. This is what triggered additional shooting of Spock's casket on Genesis. Where before, the film had Spock's death as final, these extras shots gave it more ambiguity that they might find a way to bring him back.
Mike Rogers
2023-08-14 07:26:21 +0000 UTCDamnit, I cried again. IMO the perfect Star Trek movie. There are some that rival it, but this is my favorite. I really liked Kirstie Alley's Mr. Saavik in this. (The Mister is related to military rank-speak they adopted for ST2) Don't worry fellas, the fisticuffs will return.
MrDeadstu
2023-08-14 07:23:30 +0000 UTCI've always felt that in this movie we see for the first time a version of Spock that is truly at peace with himself, having finally found the proper balance between his Vulcan and human natures following his encounter with V'Ger in the previous movie.
David Felgate
2023-08-14 07:00:09 +0000 UTCI had the opposite reaction than the two of you regarding Scotty and his bag pipes, since the song Scotty played was "Amazing Grace", which is a very emotional song for me. Also, Scotty's bag pipe rendition of "Amazing Grace" transitioned to a few bars of an orchestral arrangement of that song. I've heard that Paramount insisted that James Horner include that in the soundtrack, and that he resented having to do it.
David Felgate
2023-08-14 06:54:40 +0000 UTCFor those who are unfamiliar with the works of Charles Dickens, in the beginning of the movie, Spock gives Kirk a copy of the Dickens novel "A Tale of Two Cities" for his birthday. Kirk opens the cover and reads the opening line, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times", and asks "Message, Spock?" In other words, was this meant to be a commentary on their years together on the Enterprise? At the end, after Spock's funeral, Kirk is speaking on the bridge and quotes a line from the end of the same novel, "It's a far, far better thing I do than I have ever done before, a far better resting place I go to." This is said by a character in the novel that has done something that will result in his own death, but will save the life of the main character. Khan also quotes a few lines from a famous novel ("Moby Dick") as he is turning on the Genesis device. This is not the last time we will have literary quotes in a Star Trek movie.
David Felgate
2023-08-14 06:35:46 +0000 UTCI think they're referring to the fact that the first episode of Next Generation airs between when 4 and 5 released. So they're starting Next Generation after 4, hence 2 more movies.
CM Waters
2023-08-14 06:07:26 +0000 UTCI have never hated my internet service more than when it cut out just as Kirk was about to goad Khan into following them into the nebula as I was watching this reaction. They keep bringing up the Kobayashi Maru as a way to give the characters dialog directly addressing the movie's main theme of how people face death. Kirk talks about how he's always cheated death, quite literally in the case of the test, but he doesn't completely pull it off this time around, losing Spock. Khan refused to die for 15 years on a barren planet, surviving on his hatred for Kirk. But after finally escaping, it was that hatred that got him killed. The genesis device is an attempt to cheat death in a sense, by creating life from lifelessness, but so much of the plot is driven by the fact that it could also be used as a superweapon and cause death on a massive scale. And of course, the culmination of the theme as Spock sacrifices himself to save the ship. David being Kirk's son may also be meant to loosely tie into the theme as well, in a "children are our immortality" kind of way. Without completely reworking the story, I think the only natural place they could've had a scene with Kirk and Khan face to face would be right at the end. Kirk and a couple others could've beamed to Reliant when they got no response, and seen Khan in person as he activates the Genesis device. Then have the dialog about not being able to shut it off, beam back to the Enterprise and have the rest play out as we saw. This might be the most quotable piece of media in the entire franchise, at least to me. "Of course: we're one big happy fleet!". "Our shields are dropping", "Raise them!", "I can't!". "I'm *laughing* at the superior intellect". "You've managed to kill just about everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target!"
Jeff Cornell
2023-08-14 06:06:34 +0000 UTCthe way I've heard it is that Nimoy and the producers did intend this to be the permanent death of Spock, but the death leaked during production and caused an outrage. They decided midway through production that maybe this won't be the last we see of Spock and so they did some reshoots to add a few scenes laying some groundwork for the future... The death scene hits for me. I like that Spock tries a bit of banter at first. First time in the franchise that the closeness of their friendship is really spoken, really spelled out. Before it's always subtext, between the lines, or said by someone else. To hear that from your friend who does NOT get emotional. Powerful stuff. and then Kirk being the guy he is, struggling to hold back a sob. kills me. Love this movie
James Bottas
2023-08-14 06:01:25 +0000 UTCSorry. First time posting on the Patreon and not on YouTube. I'll try to be more careful.
CM Waters
2023-08-14 05:59:42 +0000 UTCThen it was a mistaken view of military addressing.
CM Waters
2023-08-14 05:58:47 +0000 UTCGreat job guys, but you keep saying 2 movies left. Is that a mistake? The TOS era ends with Star Trek 6, not 4. I hope you watch through 6! Thanks!
DanManMtn
2023-08-14 05:58:15 +0000 UTCI just Googled it, and according to all the top entries entries, the typical way to address a female officer is "ma'am"
Ken R
2023-08-14 05:49:31 +0000 UTCA lot of spoilers there my friend.
Bret Kay
2023-08-14 05:47:13 +0000 UTCAs has been addressed elsewhere, it's actually a military thing in our time (or at least in the early 1980s when this movie was made) that even female officers were called sir or mister. It is referenced later on in the first episode of "Star Trek: Voyager", where the captain on the show is a woman.
CM Waters
2023-08-14 05:46:39 +0000 UTCTo your question about if this was really meant to be the end of Spock: Yes, he was meant to be permanently dead and there was no plan to bring him back. However, during production of The Wrath of Khan, Leonard Nimoy had a change of heart and they opted to put in the threads you mentioned to leave the possibility open for Spock to return at some point.
Bret Kay
2023-08-14 05:41:44 +0000 UTCThank you so much! I have been waiting all weekend for this and I watched it as soon as it was up. I'll probably watch it again soon as this is my favorite ST movie ,(followed closely by the next two). Loved your reactions! No spoilers so thanks for all of These, you're giving me my money's worth!
Gary Leyh
2023-08-14 05:38:35 +0000 UTCRicardo Montalban was at this point a big star of his own TV show and this movie had a brief shooting schedule. I think this was the only way to make it work, shooting all his stuff separately. The whole "mister" think is just proto-woke nonsense before there was woke. Just think what they are saying here for a moment: They are showing equality and female officers are now deemed interchangeable with male officers, so they should be addressed the same? Ok, but by saying "we will address our women like they are men!" they are inadvertently saying the male "Mister" is better than the female "Miss", but that's crazy. So they mean well but the dumb thinking messes them up as in MCU movies where the way to write a strong woman is to write them like men. So what are they actually saying about addressing women acknowledging they're female and why is that seen as lesser than addressing men acknowledging them as male? In Nu-Trek every female is a Mister.
Ken R
2023-08-14 05:35:44 +0000 UTCThe fun part about Khan recognizing Chekov is that Walter Koenig caught it when he read the script. He thought about pointing it out, but was too afraid that they would put Uhura or Sulu in that spot and he would be left with only a small part.
Nerd's Gold
2023-08-14 05:32:58 +0000 UTCGet comfortable with the "monster maroons" as the uniforms are called. They'll be part of the next 5 movies, as well as stuff showing the past in Next Generation onwards. The major thing missed between you doing the theatrical cut instead of directors is the Engineer's Mate that dies and Scotty mourns over is actually Scotty's nephew, which explains better why he was so broken up about it. Saavik, besides a cut story where she was gonna be half-Romulan and half-Vulcan, possibly was gonna have a bigger role. Notice how it's her going down with Kirk and McCoy instead of Spock. I've heard that they were gonna kill Spock off earlier on in the movie (probably around when Reliant first attacked) and Saavik would have slipped into Spock's role more. Things were changed around when things leaked out that Spock was going to die because Nimoy originally wanted out of the franchise, so they did the fake-out death at the start in the training room and thus the audience wouldn't be ready for Spock's actual death (assuming you didn't read the novelization). Also sadly, while Saavik is in the next movie, Kirstie Alley is not. You'll see. To explain the code better since you may have missed it: with the assumption that Khan was listening in, Spock informed about the damage to the ship by saying "days" instead of "hours" (so say, main power was 6 hours, Spock said 6 days). The Chekov thing: IIRC Walter Koenig had joked that Chekov held up a bathroom during "Space Seed" that Khan was going to use. But anyway, that's all I can think of to note for Wrath of Khan. Next movie is the fallout of this, and it also has an actor who at the time was big in a sitcom (and would in another movie traumatized kids for a villain role he played). And if you thought Reliant was a unique twist on starship design compared to Enterprise, just wait.
CM Waters
2023-08-14 05:30:42 +0000 UTCIt still amazes me how precognitive you guys can be sometimes. Some of your questions/suggestions get addressed in the future.
Nerd's Gold
2023-08-14 05:30:26 +0000 UTCTHe whole mister thing is because she's still a cadet, and has no proper rank, and cadets are always called mister by tradition.
deskmerc
2023-08-14 05:26:18 +0000 UTCAs commendable as TMP was in a lot of ways, and how it was a great thing just seeing everyone again, TWOK was just so far superior in terms of characterization and storytelling. It really shows how great this franchise is when paired with the best writing.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-08-14 05:24:00 +0000 UTCCorrect. It's later referenced in the first episode of "Star Trek: Voyager" as well.
CM Waters
2023-08-14 05:16:52 +0000 UTCThe use of "Mister" for women is just because they use the same term for men and women in Starfleet. You'll hear them say "Yes, Sir" to women as well. I think it's just meant as an equality thing where they use the same term for everyone, not that it's implying Saavik or other women are identifying as male. You'll still hear "Yes, Ma'am" occasionally, but often they'll use "Yes, Sir" or "Mister" for women going forward.
Bret Kay
2023-08-14 05:16:30 +0000 UTCI think “Mister” is just a military nautical term carried over to Star Trek. Mister is used no matter the sex of the officer.
Terminaldogma01
2023-08-14 04:54:41 +0000 UTCRecognize that bridge officer on the Reliant trying to get into contact with Chekov and Captain Tyrell? That’s Kyle from the original series. He was in a couple episodes including Mirror Mirror when Spock used the Agonizer on him in the transporter room.
Terminaldogma01
2023-08-14 04:53:20 +0000 UTCFor this movie, the director Nicholas Meyer said Shatner was really self conscious about looking older & questioned do we really need to point out in the script that we're older. Meyer thinking on his feet to satisfy Shatner's vanity said some actors age very gracefully in screen & that Shatner reminded him of one. Shatner asked who & Meyer said Spencer Tracy. Shatner's eyes lit up & he smiled saying "well......well......well". Later Meyer found out that Shatner started off his career as Tracy's understudy
Retro Tom
2023-08-14 03:36:35 +0000 UTCThe Monster Marooooon!
danzthename
2023-08-14 03:22:52 +0000 UTCBotany Bay was the ship that Khan was found on in Space Seed, but you're right that Chekhov wasn't there, so Khan should not have recognized him. A continuity error on the filmmakers' parts, but a harmless one. Regarding Mr. Saavik, it is Starfleet protocol to refer to any officer with male titles (sir, mister), basically using them as gender neutral. But I think you're right that they never say Mr. Uhura, then again, they never say Miss Uhura, just Lieutenant. I think it would be interesting to go back to TOS and watch for instances of female officers being referred to with female titles. I'm willing to bet that Janice rand was referred to as Miss Rand at some point, but I could be wrong
FireBall_IA
2023-08-14 03:12:38 +0000 UTCGuess I know what I'm doing tomorrow, once I buy a theatrical version.
Nolan
2023-08-14 03:09:42 +0000 UTCWalter Koenig maintains that Chekov was using the bathroom during Space Seed, and made Khan wait a long time. The genetically engineered superman never forgave him.
tyranusfan
2023-08-14 03:09:08 +0000 UTCSuiting up. 😉
MrDeadstu
2023-08-14 03:06:40 +0000 UTCThe Motion Picture had gone massively over-budget. Afterwards, Producer Harve Bennett was summoned to a meeting with Charlie Bluhdorn, head of Gulf & Western, Paramount's parent company. He was asked if he'd seen the Star Trek movie. Harve said yes. He admitted that he and his kids were bored. Bluhdorn asked "do you think you could make a better one?" Harve said, "well, yes I can." Bluhdorn asked "You think you could make it for less than $44 F***ing million dollars?!" Harve said "Charlie, where I come from, I could make three movies for that!" So he was told to go do it. The Wrath of Khan cost only $14 million, by re-using everything leftover from The Motion Picture and approaching the project from a TV attitude of cutting corners and doing everything possible to save money. It was a blockbuster.
tyranusfan
2023-08-14 03:05:28 +0000 UTCHoly shit!!! Watching this tonight.
Michael Nemo
2023-08-14 02:53:32 +0000 UTC🖖🏻
Terminaldogma01
2023-08-14 02:52:19 +0000 UTCYes!!
Douglas Collier
2023-08-14 02:51:33 +0000 UTCWoo hoo! Here we go!
Collin Freeman
2023-08-14 02:46:20 +0000 UTCThis is my all time favorite movie! I'm so excited to watch your reaction!
Bret Kay
2023-08-14 02:46:03 +0000 UTCYes!!!!! Thank you!!!
Badger
2023-08-14 02:45:38 +0000 UTC
