UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek The Original Series - The Paradise Syndrome S3E3
Added 2023-02-03 16:51:50 +0000 UTCKirk as a Native American!?
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TOS Sex Scoreboard Miramanee: You got Kirocked Kirk 9 new +1 Spock 2 Chekov 2 Bones 1 Extra: Kirk lives a life with a wife and a kid on the way. HELL NO!!!! I say he was faking it the whole time just be the MAN in Miramanee. Doin’ it nature-style.
Prof Moff
2024-12-08 03:34:54 +0000 UTCI think this episode gets a lot of crap for various reasons, among them playing into the "white savior" trope. Wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't made Kirk a fuckin god to these people. Underneath that however, there is a really sad story about Kirk genuinely falling in love and finding peace, only to have it ripped away. Like Steven Johnson said, Kirk's womanizing ways are generally overstated. He has his flings, but half the time it's a means to an end to accomplish his mission and/or he didn't initiate. A lot of other times like in deadly years, it's a past relationship that wasn't just a one night stand. Other times he's just flirting/bring charming, and it doesn't go beyond that. Obviously Edith Keeler is going to be compared to any serious relationship just because of how well written and acted that episode was, but he knew Miramanee a lot longer than Edith, he'd forgotten the rest of his life and was fully invested in the relationship(whereas he always knew he'd have to leave Edith), to say nothing of the fact he actually got married and was going to have a child with her. By all accounts Miramanee's death should have a much greater effect on Kirk, but unfortunately the episode does a poor job selling that. This episode ultimately suffers from a lot of problems with execution. The jarring 60 day jump, some pretty hammy acting that make it hard to take seriously at times, and a few other things. It could have been much better, but I think it's better on subsequent viewings when you already know what they did wrong, and you can focus on what they were trying to do. As to why the asteroid caused wind and shaking, I assume it's because the asteroid was supposedly almost as big as Earth's moon(though they do a poor job showing that, even in remastered). Tidal forces could certainly explain that. I would also say "Kirk to Enterprise" wasn't actually the password to open the obelisk, but rather certain sounds and syllables in that phrase were the trigger. The real password might be something like "kir to pri". 2 things I wish they had done, though it would have derailed the story. McCoy has no skill necessary to divert an asteroid. He could have offered to stay and search for Kirk. Maybe ask Spock to send down a search team in a shuttle to help. Second, they could have gone the Armageddon route and beamed photon torpedoes into fissures on the asteroid, or for that matter an antimatter container like in Obsession that was powerful to rip away a planet's atmosphere. Should be plenty powerful enough to divert it or break it apart. It's also interesting you theorized about Spock restoring a copy of Kirk's memories through a mind meld given the plot of Star Trek 2 and 3. Finally at least unlike the multitude of "Earth parallel" planets in S2, at least in this case they clearly established that these are actual Native Americans taken from Earth and put here, and presumably given the familiar plant life on the planet the preservers brought Earth flora here as well. Now if it were SG1, the people would be explained as being brought there from Earth through the stargate, but the all too familiar coniferous forests would just be accepted as "the whole galaxy looks like British Columbia". Anyway, it's a flawed episode, but I appreciate it for the story it tried to tell. It just failed in execution.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-27 02:07:58 +0000 UTCIt does not mirror US history, only Native American culture.
MertzRocks
2023-06-19 17:31:32 +0000 UTCI don't understand not understanding the time jump it so Kirk has time to love miramanee, so you get his grief at the end, even as a nine year old I got it
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-02-14 04:19:20 +0000 UTCThe 'seeding of humans' question is revisited and solved in 'The Chase (STNG S6-EP20)'.
TeenyStudio Flicks
2023-02-06 22:11:41 +0000 UTCThis was before CPR was widely known, if at all.
Heather Fain
2023-02-06 21:45:01 +0000 UTCEddie Paskey was the real workhorse of the show. He wore all three division colors. He was called "Rand" once by Spock and "Connors" by McCoy. He was in two places at once in an episode, and even died in "Obsession". He had to leave the show early in the 3rd season because the brighter lighting on set gave him headaches.
Stardate 1312.4
2023-02-06 19:15:39 +0000 UTCThat makes sense in a real world situation, but how many times do we see Enterprise being "the only ship within range"? It comes down to "the needs of the plot".
Stardate 1312.4
2023-02-06 19:09:50 +0000 UTCYeah I was gonna say that myself, it's so abrupt because it happens in the middle of an act. It would have been better if Act Two had finished with the wedding between Kirk and Miramanee and then Act three had opened with a log entry - from say McCoy telling us that it has been 58 days and a little bit of what the crew has been up to, including that Spock hasn't had any rest etc.
Dion James Pitman
2023-02-05 09:04:48 +0000 UTCI remember when I was a kid I always thought this episode was kind of dumb. And I also thought that the guy who played Salish also played Khan. Same wig. As I got older, and more world weary, I took another look and I enjoyed it a lot more. Now the end always makes me cry. It’s so profoundly sad on so many levels.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-02-04 23:27:30 +0000 UTCWhat I find highly illogical is that in all that time, Starfleet couldn’t send a ship to take over their mission and/or send them some much-needed spare parts? Why the hell not? After all, in the immunity syndrome, they sure as hell went to the Intrepid’s aid awfully quickly. Any number of other instances where the Enterprise was able to swiftly aid other ships or planets. But not this time? Unacceptable.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-02-04 23:20:35 +0000 UTCRoddenberry wanted the time jump to happen over the long commercial break between acts two and three (where it could have worked,) but new producer Fred Freiberger and his new editors put it in the middle of act three, where it is very jarring. Instead they put the commercial break on Salish's line "Behold a God who bleeds!" Better editing would have helped this episode. Expect some first-rate Shatner histrionics next episode (a recurring feature this season.)
deconstructionist66
2023-02-04 16:57:41 +0000 UTCI don’t think people are understanding our frustration about the time jump. It has nothing to do with it not making sense within the story. It just, for us, narratively was abrupt and just brushed over, therefore not believable and took us out of the episode.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-02-04 16:06:55 +0000 UTCAt the beginning of the episode, they had 30 minutes to get to the rendezvous point to deflect the asteroid. This does not contradict the 58 days until collision. The time jump makes perfect sense: they arrived at the asteroid with warp speed, then blew out the warp engines expending against the asteroid. They retreated in front of the asteroid back to the planet using impulse engines (less than light speed). All this was explained in the dialog. The parts that didn't make sense were that the winds would blow and the ground tremble periodically as the asteroid approaches, although some theories could be devised to explain it, I suppose. And, since the warp drive was out which couldn't be repaired "hanging here in space", where were they going when they left at the end and how long would it take to get there? This episode is like a comic book imaginary tale, like if Superman lost his superpowers permanently and married Lois Lane. Kirk (like Pike) gets to forget about having no beach to walk on -- if only for a little while. The love story (written by Margaret Armen) is sensitive and beautiful, like other episodes written by women ("This Side of Paradise", "Journey to Babel"). Miramanee's death -- which allows them to return from the imaginary back to the "lodge that moves through the sky" -- is poignant. The original music was composed by Gerald Fried, my favorite Star Trek composer.
Zefram Cochrane
2023-02-04 06:03:17 +0000 UTCThis was a Shatner favorite because he got to do something different (and probably because it was mostly him) He put the Preservers in his Star Trek book series. I think it was more likely the monolith was inspired by 2001: A Space Odyssey which came out between season 2 and 3. This is the first episode directed by the new team brought in for season 3 to replace the Star Trek directors.
Jonathan
2023-02-04 00:00:02 +0000 UTCI agree with your criticisms on the convenient writing though. I guess I liked the episode most because I'd love to be in the spot Kirk was in. I really like that sort of life. And of course the girl was absolutely gorgeous and I adore this peaceful life. Same reason I loved Dances with Wolves I guess. That kind of simply life really speaks to me. And at the same time I always like episodes where someone else is in command of the enterprise. That's why I enjoyed the last two. I love seeing Spock in command and Scotty, while also being a great comedic character, is also a fantastic commander, when put in charge, so I always love when Scotty shows what he can do in the captain's chair :)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-03 23:24:31 +0000 UTCGlad you enjoyed it! I can agree with a lot of what you’re saying
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-02-03 22:51:40 +0000 UTCThe guy who played Lt. Leslie was in 60 of the 80 episodes playing multiple characters. The Kyle you were thinking of was another recurring officer in season 1 and 2 who was frequently the transporter chief.
Jonathan
2023-02-03 22:33:11 +0000 UTCHehe it IS actually one of my favorite, but hey :) I'm just glad you're more or less enjoying the third season so far, even if you considered this one a weaker one. I think this one also worked a lot less for you because you underestimated how truly in love Kirk was here. This was not one of his usual alien affairs, but maybe it came across to you that way. I guess for me this worked because I really like the idea of a peaceful life and away from modern things, so I felt sorry for Kirk that he lost this life.. and Kirk will reflect several times in his future what his life could have been like if he had not become a Starship captain. So this is not something he forgot about the next day... this experience stuck with him.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-03 22:03:52 +0000 UTCI hate I am about to defend this ep as I dislike this one but: (everything before the word but is meaningless). But, The asteroid is heading to the planet, which is why the enterprise is there. They have to leave to get to the intercept point on time. The pillar thing is there because it seems a lot of asteroids come at the planet. I get the whole why is Kirk to enterprise a noise that opens it but it did, why not. Kirk falls in because he was reading the marking. He falls down and starts to get up and hits a button (the random button) causes a beam to hit him removing his memories. He comes out at just the right time for the girl to see him so he is a god............. oh wait I have to agree with you. That is really just writing to a result. Nevermind I do not have to defend this turd of an episode.
Prof Moff
2023-02-03 22:02:43 +0000 UTCIn regards to Kirk loving her... you'd actually be surprised HOW important she was to him... Kirk has had a lot of affairs true, but he's not been truly in love all that often... and this one really meant a LOT to him.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-03 21:59:07 +0000 UTCPerfectly stated.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-02-03 21:54:20 +0000 UTCI actually always really liked this episode. Maybe because like kirk I'd really like to live a life like that. In regards to the 60 days.. space is vast, and they could only follow the asteroid at the same speed the asteroid was moving. The enterprise is a ship of exploration, so it is a lot less under orders that you might think. Sometimes they are at the edge of explored space and not even in communication range of Starfleet. That's kind of the whole point of the 5 year mission. To explore strange new worlds and new civilizations. They are literally moving in unexplored space a lot of the time, only sometimes they fulfill missions for Starfleet in Federation space. Their primary mission is exploration of the unknown. So while the 60 day jump is certainly jarring, it is not at all unusual to spend that much time on a single mission without any orders or reporting in. The enterprise is basically supposed to be on its own for 5 years. That's why the crew needs to be so well trained and work together. They cannot rely on orders for everything, they need to figure this out on their own most of the time.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-03 21:52:33 +0000 UTCThat think Kirk did with the kid's legs is not part of CPR but it is a technique used to push water out of the lungs. So unless someone has almost drowned that wouldn't make much sense to do, but in this case it made sense (but yes, we should have seen the kid cough up water hehe )
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-03 21:12:42 +0000 UTCAlso spotted Eddie Paskey in a very brief appearance in the Mission: Impossible pilot.
Mark Chrisco
2023-02-03 21:05:40 +0000 UTC"Mr. Leslie" played by Eddie Paskey has been on the show since season 1, in fact since the Where No Man Has Gone Before pilot. He was actually more a double and stuntman than an actor. He has some lines in This Side of Paradise when Kirk confronts the crew who are in line to beam down to the planet due to the spores. Kirk says it's mutiny and Leslie says Yes, it is.
Collin Freeman
2023-02-03 20:44:55 +0000 UTCOn the subject of shows like TOS, honestly the next best thing you'd find is the original Rod Serling Twilight Zone. A lot of Season 1 of TOS actually feels Twilight Zone-y. I don't know if its production people or how it was lit early on, but it very much feels that way. Also, some of the writing. Maybe the original Mission Impossible? That was where Nimoy went after TOS ended. They all have the same vibe of TOS in terms of quality, dynamic, changing stories, creativity, witty characters and writing. In TOS, The Federation is spread really thin, so... No, they wouldn't really be checking in outside of subspace radio. Enterprise is out on the frontier most of the time, so for 60 days the ship is stuck out there, and the crew is just doing their routine. Some of the later shows start to suffer from small-universe syndrome. The ship is, essentially, in "orbit" of the asteroid, they're moving in unison towards the planet. Your ship doesn't have to point in a direction to go in that direction in space. Ever played Asteroids for Atari? In fact the science is a little wrong in the other direction.. The Enterprise should have been able to pull the asteroid off course with the tractor beam and impulse engines. We can actually do that now, in theory, with a small probe just tethered to an asteroid. The gravity would pull it off course. This was one suggested way they were planning to divert the asteroid "Apophis" which is on another approach course for this year, if i'm not mistaken. Kirk always has the reputation of being a man-whore, and I really don't think its actually justified. He's a ladies man. Which was true of Shatner himself, by the way. A lot of women over the years have spoken of how charming, kind, giving, and passionate Bill was. Grace Lee Whitney who played Janice, referred to Shatner as a "hunk" in one interview. Kirk has, generally, three modes with women. He genuinely falls for them, they put him under a spell, or he uses his charms to get out of a situation. Kirk actually has a lot of guilt over all the women he's left behind. He made a life choice, to be a captain, and that has certain consequences. As he said in The Naked Time "No beach to walk on... That's why she's called she... I give... She takes. I have a beautiful Yeoman, did you notice? Captain's not permitted..." A life time of pain, and loneliness. As he says in this episode, or implies "I never felt at peace before." There is some pretty great background mythos building going on here. With the preservers. We've already had a couple episodes prior give us hints of what happened in the galaxy thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of years ago. We continue to get those hints throughout the rest of TOS, and into Next Generation.
Steven Johnson
2023-02-03 19:32:55 +0000 UTCI'll watch this tonight, but I remember shrugging at this episode. For some reason anytime they went to a planet that mirrors US History it didn't click for me. So I haven't seen it for a long time
Firekrys FWO
2023-02-03 18:36:54 +0000 UTC
