[COLUMN] Hollywood is Already Learning the Wrong Lessons from Madame Web | by Darren Mooney
Added 2024-02-23 15:00:14 +0000 UTC
Last weekend, Madame Web crashed and burned at the box office. Perhaps the most interesting consequence of this was a report in The Hollywood Reporter that confirmed the term “superhero fatigue” had “evolved from a term used by some corners of the fandom to something reluctantly accepted as industry fact.” Studio executives had accepted the new reality. The only question was how they were going to react to it.
The assumption would be that the studios would slow down production and release, responding to a diminished demand by throttling the supply, reducing expenditure while also increasing box office revenue. At Disney, Bob Iger has already signaled an intent to ease the company’s superhero-themed content. However, Sony didn’t act predictably. It was announced Sony and Amazon were planning another Spider-Man-adjacent project, a live-action Spider-Man: Noir series starring Nicolas Cage.
However, this announcement seemed to represent a pivot for Sony and Amazon’s partnership. Over the weekend, The Ankler reported that Amazon studios had already begun retooling its planned women-led Sony-adjacent series, Silk: Spider Society, reworking it “with a more male-skewing audience in mind.” These twinned new items, which emerged in the wake of the failure of Madame Web, are a fascinating illustration of the double-standard that still exists within the superhero genre. The problem, it seems, were women.
While women were very prominent in the early days of Hollywood, they have long faced systemic disadvantages. Last year, women accounted for only “22% of all directors, writers, producers, executive producers, editors, and cinematographers working on the 250 top grossing films” of the year, which was actually down 2% from the previous year. Last year, women-led films dropped to just 30% of the market, the lowest percentage in a decade.
This is particularly true in the superhero genre. As a rule, the major studios were slow to invest in female or minority superheroes. While Batman received his first theatrical movie in 1966 and Superman hit the silver screen in 1978, Wonder Woman would not get a feature film until 2017. For the first ten years of the superhero boom, the Marvel Cinematic Universe (the MCU) was dominated by three white guys named Chris. Even superheroes couldn’t fly through the glass ceiling.
Of course, there are any number of excuses that might be offered and scapegoats that might be blamed. Ike Perlmutter is frequently cited as a roadblock. However, the truth is simply that these large companies didn’t want to make these movies. These gigantic corporations only began to foreground women and people of color once the genre had reached peak production and the market was already saturated.

Incidentally, this is what had happened towards the end of the 1990s, in the wake of the smaller superhero cinema boom spurred by Tim Burton’s Batman. Towards the end of the decade, movies like Spawn and Blade were built around superheroes of color. These proved just as popular as the films starring white male heroes. Spawn, starring Michael Jai White, returned $87 million on a $40 million budget. Starring Wesley Snipes, Blade arguably kickstarted the modern superhero boom.
Reflecting pent-up desire for superhero films reflecting diverse perspectives, these female- and person-of-color-led superhero movies overperformed. Captain Marvel grossed over a billion dollars. Black Panther outgrossed Avengers: Infinity War at the domestic box office, became a cultural phenomenon, and earned Marvel Studios their first Best Picture nomination. They outgrossed contemporary Chris-led entries like Thor: Ragnarok and Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2.
In hindsight, this was the end of the superhero boom, the last few bites of the apple. The market disruption caused by the pandemic served to camouflage the trend, it was clear that audiences were no longer as excited by superheroes as they had once been. Avengers: Endgame would be the last Marvel Studios production to gross over a billion dollars. Finally, having wrung as much profit as possible from the genre, the studio was willing to foreground women and creators of color.
Of course, these female and minority actors and directors operated on a last-on, first-off principle. If the glass ceiling demonstrates how reluctant studios are to share their success, the glass cliff demonstrates how quick they are to apportion blame. Success might have many parents, but failure always needs a scapegoat. That scapegoat could conveniently be the women and people of color who had only just been allowed to take their shot at the genre.
It's worth noting that pretty much all recent superhero movies have floundered at the box office. However, the failure of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and Shazam!: Fury of the Gods has not prompted any existential handwringing about the need to retool future projects to focus on fewer white guys. The failure of Quantumania did not lead the studios and press to throw Peyton Reed under the bus in the same way that the performance of The Marvels was blamed on Nia DaCosta. Even today, women directors face longer and harsher sentences in “movie jail.”

The problems facing the superhero movie genre are systemic: overworked visual effects artists, the lack of creative vision, a suffocating sameness, bad editing, and market saturation. They have nothing to do with the people in front of or behind the camera, because those people aren’t making the decisions that matter. As DaCosta explained in press leading up to the release of The Marvels, “It is a Kevin Feige production, it’s his movie.” If there’s a creative problem, that’s where the blame lies.
Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3 wasn’t the only live-action superhero film to turn a profit last year because it starred a blonde white guy named Chris. It succeeded because it was a deeply personal story from a filmmaker who was able to express himself through the film. It was personal in a way that these sorts of projects are rarely allowed to be. Madame Web and The Marvels didn’t fail because they featured women; they failed for the same reason Quantumania or Fury of the Gods did.
It's important to define what “superhero fatigue” is, what the term has come to represent. Christopher Lord has defined the term as “a movie that feels like a movie I’ve seen a dozen times before” fatigue. This is admittedly a mouthful, but it feels more accurate. After all, many of the biggest flops of last year were nostalgia plays with no appeal to younger audiences, and many of the biggest successes were properties that were either new to the screen or new to those viewers.
It's worth noting in this context that one way to inject novelty into an existing genre or property is to invite new perspectives on it. Those perspectives can obviously come from anyone and anywhere, but there is a greater likelihood of finding a fresh new angle by broadening the pool of talent that gets to tell their stories. After all, the lived experiences of women and people of colour are likely to be quite different from those of the straight white guys who have defined the genre for decades.
This is what makes it so frustrating that Hollywood seems to be learning all of the wrong lessons from the superhero implosion, with Sony and Amazon retreating from female-perspectives to double-down on Nicolas-Cage-as-Spider-Man. Madame Web was a terrible movie, but it wasn't a terrible movie because of the gender of anybody involved. It was a terrible movie because it was a Spider-Man nativity story that somehow could not directly acknowledge Spider-Man.

In reality, Barbie was the highest-grossing movie of last year, a female-led and female-directed movie built around a product traditionally seen as very feminine. It earned a Best Picture nomination and was a genuine cultural phenomenon. It was just as much a piece of intellectual property brand management as something like The Flash, but the difference was that the studio trusted a creative team to tell a story from that perspective.
The only other superhero film besides Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3 to crack the box office top ten was Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, a film about Miles Morales (Shameik Moore), a mixed-race Spider-Man, with a diverse creative team. It dealt with themes both universal and specific, speaking to the production team’s unique perspective in a way that remained accessible to wider audiences. It was fresh and exciting. It didn’t feel like a movie the audience had already seen dozens of times.
Just as studios refuse to learn the right lessons from failures, they learn the wrong lessons from successes. Nicolas Cage’s noir-inflected Spider-Man was a delight in Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, but there’s no reason why the character spinning off from that needs to be the most prominent white guy. It could be just as fun to have a Peni Parker (Kimiko Glenn) or Spider-Woman (Hailee Steinfeld) project. It remains surreal that Miles Morales has yet to transition to live action.
During the boom years, studios were quick to trumpet their support for diversity and inclusivity. This was true even on streaming, where Netflix invested heavily in a diverse selection of programming. However, when the market begins to contract, it’s that diverse talent that is often the first to be silenced. Studios kowtow to reactionary voices, abandoning principles that it seems they never truly held. This isn’t just morally bankrupt, it’s also bad business.
If the superhero genre is going to weather this storm, it needs to become more diverse – not less. It needs to embrace a wider range of stories and perspectives, and the best way to do that is to include talent with unique stories and distinct perspectives. Audiences have and will continue to consistently respond to that. Madame Web stars Dakota Johnson as a woman with the power to see the future. One doesn’t have to be clairvoyant to see how short-sighted studios are being.
Comments
@Doug: Yep. I honestly find myself a little frustrated at the prospect of bringing those character back... without any of the creatives that made those shows so popular in the first place. Like, hire Cheo Hodari Coker or Stephen DeKnight or Melissa Rosenberg and let them cook. Given them a reasonable budget - as high as you can justify without having to "hover" over their shoulders.
Darren Mooney
2024-02-25 22:56:12 +0000 UTCGlad that these columns do stoke though, Ian! Really appreciate it!
Darren Mooney
2024-02-25 22:54:00 +0000 UTCYep. I find myself honestly unsure whether it's better if people are cynically chasing money by sharing these shorts of crazy opinions or if they actually believe it. Is it cynicism, stupidity or some unholy hybrid? And which would be the "good" answer?
Darren Mooney
2024-02-25 22:52:34 +0000 UTCYep. The solution is more diversity in terms of tone, style and perspective. Freshen stuff up, but in meaningful ways.
Darren Mooney
2024-02-25 22:50:51 +0000 UTCThank you for the kind words! And I agree.
Darren Mooney
2024-02-25 22:49:57 +0000 UTCSure, but there's no way those films could come through the Disney machine, just as there's no way that "Logan" could have. And I think it's good to have these films at a variety of studios that have a number of different ways of making movies. (And I think the fact that there is increasingly only one way of making movies like these is part of what's exhausting the audience.)
Darren Mooney
2024-02-25 22:49:33 +0000 UTCAnd especially with the current state of the superhero genre, they are in dire need of some smaller projects. Not everything related needs to be "EPIC AF" and cost half a billion dollars. 3 of the 4 Defenders shows on Netflix should have gotten that message through. (Sorry, I thought Iron Fist was kind of garbage, but loved the other three). Give us a chance, and a reason, to care about these characters and we're willing to.
Doug Hendrickson
2024-02-25 13:28:13 +0000 UTCIt's a great point you make, that it's not "whose stories are told," but "how stories are told." It’s shockingly simple, but just as shockingly simple to miss - for the corporations that control the country of cinema, anyway. Anyone who's paid any attention to anything people say know there's drama and excitement to be had in anyone's tale, as long as they tell it skillfully and you have open ears to hear. But that's just the thing. It doesn't feel like these organizations really care about the stories of individuals and groups beyond how they fill queues and print tickets, so they don't see what enriches those narratives, they just want a narrative that enriches them, by hook or by crook, and often more by the latter than we should be comfortable with. A narrative that doesn't bring in the dough is, to their minds, as good as invalid, and it seems that the profit motive has become such a devil that it drives the next product sooner than inspires reflection on what that product should look like. A system like this can produce labors of art and love, but all the while the teething issues grind flesh and blood in their cog wheels without mercy. And the ones who get caught are all too often the so-called "unsafe bets" who get left to last, when the gilded facade has given way to fatigue. The ones already marginalized in the first place, "waiting their turn." Segregated trains for the digital age. Bit of a rant, but if nothing else, these columns do always get me a-thinking. Good stuff, Darren, and always appreciated. Keep up the work!
Ian Yee
2024-02-25 03:07:03 +0000 UTCI think the primary problem js bad movies full stop. However the argument some are making is that unnaturally bending towards more women is somehow making the movies bad. How that extends to things like bad editing is a mystery to me logically. It sure FEELS related tho. Also do not confuse "skew to male audiences" with less diversity and people of color. The clear elephant in the room is men failing to connect with how women communicate with women. The difficulty for a movie to succeed in a male skewing space when it strongly passes and obliterates the bechdel test. A single woman being a lead interacting with a bunch of men has succeeded many times. However many women interacting with women talking in a feminine way doesnt land with male audiences... if the movie is bad or average. It would work with a GREAT movie, the bar is higher but is there. Madame web was an opportunity to bring women companionship into the realm of male skewing comic book audiences. Just as the bar to get into "movie jail" is lower for women the bar for "movie praise" seems to be higher. I agree with the authors central point, make a good movie around women that bombs before you blame the women. Madame Web bombing was not a women thing. It was a bad movie thing.
JoMike Milly
2024-02-24 12:30:11 +0000 UTCI'm not sure how to feel about movie execs assuming that a movie starring women did so poorly because incels hold that much spending power and dominance over the cinematic market and not because the movie was torn between however many creative voices and eventually just shunted out the door with the bare minimum pieces to make it coherent. Honestly I don't think it's stupidity in this case, it has to be willful ignorance. Stupidity only goes so far but after the disaster that was Morbius you'd have to be plugging your ears to not understand what the issue actually is And that's probably going to just add more fuel to the fire that is the massive divide in film goers. I can't even imagine how people who actually see "woke" as a real thing in media creation are going to react, are they going to say "Sony goes unwoke and reverses course" or just "Woke Sony blames men for Madame Web's failure"
Ryallen
2024-02-23 19:25:31 +0000 UTCI’m surprised it came from Sony! Arguably these characters are wasted in the hands of any large media corporation, but Disney is at least showing some respect to what was a disposable medium for decades.
Sean Aaron
2024-02-23 19:22:45 +0000 UTCI'm always hyped for a Darren opinion. Thanks for the article. I suppose one could even say that the across the spiderverse is almost a Gwen Stacy film given that it starts and ends with her, and it's her arc that feels most complete while we are waiting for the second part to see miles' come together, and the fact that it was a huge success is another big indicator that the problem is poorly executed films rather than a lack of interest in films aboit female superheroes
Adithya Kale
2024-02-23 19:05:39 +0000 UTCAudiences don't have superhero movie fatigue, they have bad-to-mediocre superhero movie fatigue, and it's frustrating that studios continue blaming everything and everyone else when that fact is so blatantly obvious to audiences. Excellent article, as always.
matticus40
2024-02-23 18:59:57 +0000 UTCThank you! I try to research the topic as best I can!
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 18:41:45 +0000 UTCTo be fair, I will accept a dozen “Morbius” and “Madame Web” movies if it gets me another “Spider-Verse” film, which would never come from Disney.
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 18:41:18 +0000 UTCIt would be nice to see commitment to some kind of vision and pursuit of quality in these “spider-adjacent” films. I get neither the sense they’re trying to tell good stories in their Spider-Man universe or that they have any kind of goal beyond leveraging every character they have rights to. Disney buying Sony Pictures and putting an end to the madness seems like the best solution!
Sean Aaron
2024-02-23 17:10:40 +0000 UTCYour analytical abilities astound me yet again - amazing read! Always love it when you back up your claims with actual facts. Also your last sentence gave me a good chuckle
ZhoRa13
2024-02-23 16:57:36 +0000 UTCThere have been quite a number of superhero projects with "distinct perspectives" that have failed miserably. "Madame Web" is far from the first, or only. It is a mistake to believe that these failures are merely the result of those involved being [group], but a rush to prove commitment to diversity has resulted in a number of people who were ill-qualified for big superhero projects being placed in positions to create exactly that, with predictable results. If there was some kind of mentorship in place, where those who have created successful properties could advise and guide new directors and writers rather than dumping them into positions they aren't prepared to assume, there might not be such a prodigious drop-off. Diversity is not, in fact, an assurance of success, and assured absolutism is not the answer.
Kraken
2024-02-23 16:48:06 +0000 UTCYep. I think a lot about how the early success of the MCU wasn't the interconnectivity. In fact, the one dud in that early run ("Incredible Hulk" aside) was "Iron Man 2", the most interconnected film. The early MCU films attracted audiences because the films were mostly fairly decent, in a genre that wasn't especially consistent to that point. "Iron Man", "Captain America", "Thor" demonstrated that these movies could be quite decent and were a reliable investment for an audence looking for a good time. And that naturally created a brand loyalty. But, of course, what everybody actually took from that success was the interconnectivty.
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 15:59:42 +0000 UTCThanks! I do try to know what I'm talking about, and hopefully provide a jumping-off point into material also worth reading!
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 15:55:43 +0000 UTCOh, to be clear, I love the idea of Nicolas Cage as Spider-Man Noir. I loved him in "Spider-Verse" and I'm fond of Cage in general. I love Ethan Hawke's take on him. But I also look at Cage as a box office draw - which is, and I'm sorry, cagey at best - and I don't know how you justify that pitch as a sure bet right now over any other option. I could understand not greenlighting new pitches. I could also understand pruning pitches in development. But the combination of pruning pitches in development *and* greenlighting a new Nic Cage show is a very odd look.
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 15:54:52 +0000 UTCYep. I mean, it's weird. Even if you just follow the money, the money leads you to... "Barbie." Make more movies like "Barbie." Whether the studio takes that to mean hiring more women or simply to hire more auteurs (including women), it's weird that it serves in no way to contradict the impulses to throw these people overboard the moment that a few movies focusing on them underperform. I don't think "Barbie" is perfect, to be clear, but it's a damn sight better than films like "Madame Web" or "Fury of the Gods" or "The Flash."
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 15:52:03 +0000 UTC"It's the only possible explanation!"
Darren Mooney
2024-02-23 15:49:45 +0000 UTCWonderful article, as always. I had the most depressing laugh of my life with the idea of Sony blaming Madame Web on "women", as a concept.
Francho
2024-02-23 15:40:41 +0000 UTCSo for me I would say one of the biggest issues is the result of ‘Movie by comity’ Vs ‘Movie by a team/person who has a creative vision’ Don’t get me wrong if studios are indeed acting in away to reduce diversity it is bad, clearly. However I suspect the motivation to do that is coming from some corporate committee who has decided to ‘go back to a lower risk model’ (based on previous earning figures only) When instead it should be about finding and enabling people (regardless of gender, ethnicity, background ect) who have the best story to tell. I share your hope that the industry will evolve and learn what it needs to survive… Nice peace BTW, really appreciate all the reference links you included- wish they did that on mainstream news sites….
Pete3.141
2024-02-23 15:26:55 +0000 UTCI feel like in both film and gaming, studios are over-relying on brand and not actually recognising the initial efforts which developed the brand in the first place. I hope they recognise this soon and begin from scratch with new and diverse content. Shame that marketing also feeds into the idea that they are purposely leaving diverse content out to dry to give reason to their abandonment of diversity
Jaxorb
2024-02-23 15:24:09 +0000 UTCThose movies that flopped, whether women or minority centered, all had one thing in common: they were not very good. I went to see Quantum Mania and the Marvels in the theater, and I actually enjoyed them both, but for different reasons: Paul Rudd and Kamala Kahn, respectively. I loved Across the Spider-verse, and saw it multiple times in the theater as well. The audience wants good stories, and the Eternals didn’t have that; Wonder Woman 1984 had an awful story and was rightly criticized for it. The issue to me is that the studios are lazy about their female and minority led films, taking the wrong lessons from Black Panther, Blade, etc. My theory is that studios believe that if you put a certain demographic on the screen, that cohort will automatically flock to the screen. This means that the movie itself isn’t given the time or resources needed to take a good idea and turn it into a good movie. There was no saving WW84, though.
Brian S
2024-02-23 15:17:25 +0000 UTCWonderful article! Couldn't agree more, and I love the research that went into it.
mecar
2024-02-23 15:14:39 +0000 UTCIt really is crazy that despite those huge successes featuring women and people of colour, studios seem reluctant to double down on them instead. I do wonder if it’s to do with the enduring stereotype that most people who see “nerd” properties like superhero films are sweaty white guys in their parent’s basements and that they only like to watch other white guys being the heroes. There’s certainly a very vocal (hopefully) minority giving that impression but surely there’s market research that studios do to contradict this. That said, because I’m weirdly drawn to Nic Cage and Neo-Noir I am happy to hear about the new film, but I also enjoyed Miles in the new Spider-man game as much as, if not more, than Peter Parker. Madness.
Tim Wilson
2024-02-23 15:14:24 +0000 UTC