Steins:Gate Ep 23
Added 2024-10-14 17:00:09 +0000 UTC😡first time I have gotten angry on Patreon 😡
I have calmed down now... I am NOT gonna drop Steins;Gate but I was pretty pissed for the 2nd half of the episode and a few hours afterward. LOL, I got a bit carried away by how invested I am in the show. This was 1000% a letdown in story writing for ME, but we will definitely continue. I know I am likely alone on this POV and nobody will see it the way I do but I just couldn't believe how lowball the curtain-drop moment was.
Comments
Hey, Tony! Although I get the frustration, that scene wasn't a reveal of anything, Makise was meant to be killed by her dad at that moment but since Okabe prevented that (something that shouldn't have happened) the timeline diverged into one where Okabe kills Makise instead; Basically it's the whole Mayuri situation again, but it's Makise in this instance.
Isaac
2024-12-30 11:26:23 +0000 UTCExactly, I thought they handled Okab’s failure pretty well. After learning what really happened to her. If he disagrees that’s cool. It may lead to an interesting conversation
Roluchi
2024-10-16 02:39:31 +0000 UTCSame, didn’t realize so many people dislike that part. If her dad didn’t kill her something else would. Just like when Nae pushed mayuri, it was an accident. I expected him to fail at least once. If it wasn’t for that accident Okabe wouldn’t go down his amazing Steins Gate 0 arc so I ain’t mad at it
Roluchi
2024-10-16 02:35:38 +0000 UTCThat’s unironically a perfect description of steins gate time travel and canonically happened in the first iteration
Chaisen
2024-10-15 23:50:21 +0000 UTCI can’t believe people actually say the shit I saw. It doesn’t make sense. Like it’s ur reaction and it doesn’t necessarily have to align with theirs
Parampreet Singh
2024-10-15 19:12:05 +0000 UTCSteins;Gate 0 will cover this
Halo S
2024-10-15 13:05:41 +0000 UTCEpisode 23 also exists in beta There are two types of Episode 23
トマト伯爵
2024-10-15 10:13:17 +0000 UTC@An Nguyen Umm, I'm not sure if I'm getting whar you're saying but why would he do it intentionally? He knows she's going to die anyways, why would he need to get involved himself?
Lixien
2024-10-15 07:44:51 +0000 UTCOh, now that is interesting 👀 So that extremely detailed message is supposed to be a dmail? Is there a reason its so different than the dmails we have seen? That def enters a massive level of augmented depth if this is the case. Is that explained somewhere in the future or are you arriving at that?
DrumRollTony
2024-10-15 07:14:23 +0000 UTCsecond time watching this and did not even realize that the video was a d-mail! thanks for pointing that out!!
Kade Deal
2024-10-15 06:32:43 +0000 UTC😅😅😅😅😅😅
DrumRollTony
2024-10-15 05:25:36 +0000 UTCThat was only my interpretation ^^
Logan H
2024-10-15 05:19:08 +0000 UTC@flip Wild. Keyboard is soft af. Knee jerk REACTION... it's implied was the point. Fucking hell. You're gone
DrumRollTony
2024-10-15 05:04:17 +0000 UTCBro what? You are such a tool 😂Like how are you on this 24/7 passive-aggressive vibe? How can one’s ego be so fragile? A mf can’t even make light of it without dickless chiming in
Flippnote
2024-10-15 04:52:09 +0000 UTCAgreed that it had to be done in general but I think it could've been a bit more tasteful. I said it in another comment but: In my mind, the main problem is showing him doing it by accident. If it were me I would've had him go back -> save her -> see shit go wrong -> realize she has to die -> kills her intentionally himself -> depressed af -> gets message from his future self that's been mulling over this for years, that there could actually be a way to save both
An Nguyen
2024-10-15 04:27:14 +0000 UTCI think he understands that "it could've happened any other way too"... but to his point, the author *chose* for us to see this iteration of it. In my mind, the main problem is showing him doing it by accident. If it were me I would've had him go back -> save her -> see shit go wrong -> realize she has to die -> kills her intentionally himself -> depressed af -> gets message from his future self that's been mulling over this for years, that there could actually be a way to save both
An Nguyen
2024-10-15 04:26:03 +0000 UTCWell it clearly lowered the value for me. Lol I'm not sure what to tell you other than i had other expectations or the storytelling. This is a very simple idea to understand
DrumRollTony
2024-10-15 04:23:37 +0000 UTC@Flip almost like you a part of a reaction patreon, fucking wild concept
DrumRollTony
2024-10-15 04:22:11 +0000 UTCI'm not really deep in the lore and I've only seen these eps but to me, that still could've been the "original event" and when we see Okabe stabbing her it was just another iteration of Kurisu's unavoidable death, similar to how Mayuri kept dying in different ways
An Nguyen
2024-10-15 04:15:36 +0000 UTCYeah, not really sure how it degrades the value of the show. It was an interesting twist to see it tie together to the first episode. If its about Okabe being the one to kill her, well she would have died either way. Its no different from what happened with Mayuri.
ユージオ
2024-10-15 04:02:53 +0000 UTCYeah, I forgot about that 🙃
Fixero Demix
2024-10-15 03:28:09 +0000 UTCI'm not fluent in english, didn't want to offend or smth (just in case). I just hope that you will return to liking the title, but the frustration is trully understandable
Fixero Demix
2024-10-15 03:27:38 +0000 UTCThe first attempt actually was fully adapted and hinted in the anime in episode 1. You definitely missed it
Belac
2024-10-15 03:13:58 +0000 UTCI suppose as a FMAB fan I can rest happily knowing Tony’s most pissed of anime moment was not with the show🤣🤣
Jack Allen
2024-10-15 02:41:14 +0000 UTCHe doesn’t even understand what he didn’t like though 😂. Craziest knee-jerk I’ve seen
Flippnote
2024-10-15 02:39:13 +0000 UTCHe was mostly frustrated and disappointed in this episode
James
2024-10-15 01:40:07 +0000 UTCHow I feel throughout the reaction: https://youtu.be/2Pa_F9oq17U?si=b3ozuCcl5OBExX8E
Hoji
2024-10-15 01:33:22 +0000 UTCAll that I could say is that you were very confused, like an undergradete student taking their finals thinking that they know what's going on until they looked at the paper. 🤣🤣🤣
Hoji
2024-10-15 01:25:11 +0000 UTCLol "pipe down" 🤣
DrumRollTony
2024-10-15 00:47:33 +0000 UTCImportant thing! This stuff with "Okarin already did that in this timeline" is fully explained in steins gate zero. I don't want to spoil anything, but It logically correct, so just pipe down) It will come together at some point. Also, in the game you can see the hints about that when the time machine appeared after the failed attempt, but I guess they didn't adapt it into anime. So don't judge it so quickly (●'◡'●)
Fixero Demix
2024-10-15 00:46:12 +0000 UTCAlso I get your frustration Tony but the way I interpreted this was like Suzuha and Okarin said on the roof, about if they don't figure it out right it will potentially still converge to her dying like with Mayuri. Her dad would've done it but then it just ends up being him instead. I feel it's about as cheesy as the last Mayuri death we saw where he tries to kill himself to break the cycle by jumping in front of the car, but it just causes her to jump and push him out of the way resulting in her dying from the car instead.
Nick K
2024-10-15 00:33:00 +0000 UTCExactly. It's about what Okabe does in response to the most soul-crushing thing imaginable.
Erika
2024-10-15 00:02:54 +0000 UTCIt's hard to capture because in new version she simply singing second verse (for non japanese speakers it might be almost impossible to get it) And visiuals have some minor changes. That's a good idea with op1 representing alpha worldline and op2 - beta. But honestly I didn't get it when was watching S;G myself.
d_swordfish
2024-10-15 00:01:37 +0000 UTCOK but the biggest thing that somehow I have not seen any comments on, and you didn't catch it Tony (or maybe you did but didn't say anything) is that we actual got an alternate version of the opening this time, both in audio and video. Granted there were times before where you thought it might have changed when it hadn't but this time it actually was quite different throughout.
Nick K
2024-10-14 23:59:53 +0000 UTCYeah, they just use a different part of the full song that has the same structure musically but different lyrics.
Lixien
2024-10-14 23:42:08 +0000 UTC@James fine with me. Just freely discussing on what cliche is and what is not. The mood was set perfect for this xD
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 23:17:23 +0000 UTCah.. that happened lol. ngl I completely deleted that „reveal“ from my brain. Rough one, but yeah from what I remember its not meant to be the big reveal or anything so it doesn’t rly matter that it was him going forward. But it 4 sure took away from the episode for me too. Not too much from the show overall tho (for me).
Madi
2024-10-14 23:15:14 +0000 UTC@d Being creative enough can turn any cliche story into a interesting one such as with Terminator 0. There were cliche elements in that story, but I was still invested into that show. And I don't think Okabe killing Kurisu is cliche at all in this case. If this was a murder mystery show where we are trying to find the killer and it turn out that it was the main player that kill the victim, then yes, that would be cliche. You can argue that the writer lack a little bit of creativity here, but we have more pressing problems at the moment such as preventing WW3 and saving billions of lives.
James
2024-10-14 23:13:43 +0000 UTCBro is so passionate with this show...hope you are feeling better now. I’ve learned not to take a show too seriously over the years.
Maggie
2024-10-14 23:01:41 +0000 UTCBut that wouldn't work. We needed a scenario that makes Okarin feels like everything is bullshit and give up and I don't think seeing the father killing Kurisu would be the one.
Lixien
2024-10-14 22:58:38 +0000 UTCI do think it would have been better if it was just her dad snapping after all those years of being ridiculed by others and overshadowed by his own daughter, ending up stabbing her in a moment of rage or something. but also i didn't really care all to much that it was him that did it
TheGoblerTrainsMovinIn
2024-10-14 22:36:23 +0000 UTC@James I'm afraid that doesnt work that way. If creators invest, let's say, 10 more decent episodes of S;G, showing us Okabe's inner development, conflicts and so ever... But in the end again he is the one who killed Kurisu (on purpose, not on purpose - doesn't matter). Is it stop being cliche? EDIT: How exactly "careful build up" helps us escaping cliche trap if in the end "main character = culprit"?
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 22:33:52 +0000 UTC@Lixen I guess what I'm trying to say is that there might be a specific reason why the writer chose to have it this way, but it's hard to talk about without spoiling.
James
2024-10-14 22:32:58 +0000 UTC@DrumRollTony yea, sorry. I just bound that to time-travel stories as it seems like the easiest way to resolve problems in such a genre. Whatever we see happeing - the reason is main character with time machine. Ez pz. If your point is about "general", it is interesting for me what you'd think about Eren Yeager? Is he a culprit and is AOT a big cliche? I'm afraid I might missunderstand how it works out of time-travel genre.
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 22:31:36 +0000 UTC@d I think with AoT, there was careful build up leading that "reveal" with Eren, but with Steins;Gate, it can appear random or thrown in at the last minute. I didn't think much of Okabe killing Kurisu other than being hard to watch. If the entire show was about finding out who stabbed and killed Kurisu, then yeah, it would definitely be cliche for me.
James
2024-10-14 22:28:35 +0000 UTC@James I guess you mean an scenario that makes Okabe give up (he tries again because of the message) because that's my point here, we can't just get Kurisu dying by his father or something, that wouldn't work.. It has to be something shocking (to the audience and the protagonist) that feels like there's just no use and I can't come up with other bullshit scenario other than Okarin stabbing her himself. Cliche or not.
Lixien
2024-10-14 22:26:02 +0000 UTC@James, true. Like Mayuri dying in alpha wordline important to affect Okabe as one of time machine creators. So it would motivate him to build time machine to prevent Mayuri's death but the machine will be later exploited by CERN. In Beta world line death of Kurisu important because in that worldline goverments start time machine development race and Kurisu's research was key to the technology. Fact that Okabe killed Kurisu doesnt change the fact that in this worldline she HAS to die. Him killing her was necessary to show us his trauma after ep 22, when he realized that their feelings are mutual. Anyway, my point was that cliche "main character is a cultprit" would shatter a lot stories that are concidered good also by Tony. For example AOT. I just dont get why Eren Yeager is not a cliche here. Somehow time trevel thematic triggered it? Dont get it, but nevermind.
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 22:19:52 +0000 UTCI think it was just the writer's choice to have Okabe accidentally stab Kurisu to death. But having said that, there's probably no other scenario that would have given Okabe the motivation to save everyone.
James
2024-10-14 22:12:33 +0000 UTC@Lixien That's my point. I think I might missunderstand the concept of "main character is a culprit it' s a cliche" Eren whiping out half of humanity on purpose - it is not a cliche. Okabe stubbing Kurisu not on purpose - that's a cliche... Pretty broad interpretation of this concept. That's why I bind it tightly to time-related stories. Like "oh we know these things have happend. And wow big reveal - that was our MC". I can easily see how that becoming cliche as it's literally easiest way to resolve the problem in time travel xD
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 22:09:04 +0000 UTCIt's definitely a cheap shot having Okarin be the culprit for the sake of inflated drama, especially since the show has a better unique idea running that due to the attractor field it it's simply inevitable. However, I'd suggest trying to just put that in the back of your mind, and simply chalk it up to "it would happen in any number of ways", or blame the father, etc., merely for the sake of possibly enjoying the last episode a bit more.
Resonaire
2024-10-14 22:05:18 +0000 UTCI mean... more than Okarin at least. I know I say culprit but it was more like an accident. But yeah I'm not going to argue about Eren right now lol.
Lixien
2024-10-14 22:01:33 +0000 UTCI'm interested... Is Eren Yeager a culprit?
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 21:59:36 +0000 UTCWhat do you mean by Okabe arresting the murderer? And the issue with who stabbed Kurisu is irrelevant to the plot at this point. The important thing is that the universe observes a past Okabe seeing a dead Kurisu (alive) laying in a pool of blood, and then past Okabe sending that first D-mail.
James
2024-10-14 21:54:17 +0000 UTCYeah, I feel like this would've been better for your experience if we got Kurisu dying and then Okarin killing her by accident in another attempt. This way, we still get Okarin killing her without feeling like the "main plotwist" of the show and rather just another faiIed attempt. Just another ridiculous scenario where she dies like with Mayuri. Like other are saying, I dont think the whole "he did it all along??" is the main point and shouldnt be treated as such. I know you're suggesting removing it altogether but imo that doesnt work because I think this scene serves another more important purpose other than shocking the audience: make Okarin truly feel like he has no control and give up. For real this time. He genuinely tried everything and experienced everything trying to save someone without the D-mails. The scene where he tries to sacrifice himself to save Mayuri by throwing himself into a car is similar. It's cliche (at least I think so, I've seen it in another time loop stories where the protagonidt tried to save the other person) but it didnt really matter because the main point I got from that scene was the painful realization that Mayuri felt like a burden and that she was trying to help him in any way and it also made Okabe feel like he had no options other than undoing the D-mail. This is similar, but we needed something new, something he didnt experience, something that would really feel like the cherry on top and that the world was laughing at him for even trying. And I can't come up with another scenario that accomplishes this other than Okarin killing Kurisu himself. (If someome can, please reply, I still agree that the whole "main protagonist was the culprit" scene is cliche, but I think it was necessary)
Lixien
2024-10-14 21:51:27 +0000 UTC@Logan Okabe will arrest the murderer? How did you arrive to that conclusion based on what we have seen? Why would I HAVE to watch 24 right after to have an opinion and a reaction for THIS episode right here. Hello? LOL @d_swordfish - I never said many time travel stories.. I said its cliche in stories in general. Time travel stories are such a minority of media
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 21:46:11 +0000 UTCIdk but it did not bothered me when I first watch it but it may have been because I don't watch TV show or movies but hopefully your opinion changes in the future and SG0 is still my favorite.
WithoutName 98
2024-10-14 21:42:02 +0000 UTCIt can be played around differently. For example Nakabachi hit Okabe hard so he almost passed out and cant interfere, then he stubbed Kurisu and left the crime scene with time machine papers asap trying to place the blame for the murder on Okabe. When he left Suzuha came in, waking up Okabe and escaping to time machine before Okabe from past appeared. Smth like that. I guess Tony explained somewhere below in comments, that it's like common cliche in many time travel related media. Trick that I personally (and many other S;G fans) didn't consume much of such media and for me it was fine. Like I didn't consider it as big problem or bad writing. The thing I described above and what actually happend in S;G - for me like equal in quality. But not for Tony. If you already met this trick before and not once it's definitely recognized as cliche and watching it deacreases the quality of the show. Like why the fuck this again, no way... We were not expecting it to be the problem, Tony was not expecting some most common time-trevel cliche would appear and we all together pressed the hype pedal to the ground and hit that "wall" on full speed.
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 21:38:37 +0000 UTCThe thing IS if anyone else killed Kurisu, Okabe will arrest the murderer. But IT'S OKABE, so he just has to focus on "how Can i deceive myself and the World ?" This is not scoobydo stuff. And don't forget that Time isn't linear. You must have to watch ep 23 ans 24 right After to fully understand
Logan H
2024-10-14 21:25:56 +0000 UTCI think everyone has said what there is to say but yeah I do disagree with your opinion. If the series had made a big deal of the whodunnit aspect and actively teased the audience with who killed Kurisu I definitely would’ve been mad but that was never really a focus of the story. They don’t even ask who stabbed Kurisu until this episode so for me that moment wasn’t like a “it was him all along!?!?” But more so a “well that’s just tragic” kinda reaction. Anyway something neat you wouldn’t be able to notice but the lyrics for the op in the final 2 episodes are actually different from the rest of the show. Have a nice trip and looking forward to your thoughts on the final episode.
AussieBoy
2024-10-14 21:08:00 +0000 UTCThat is really interesting, never saw someone being disappointed with how this episode played out. Makes me kinda sad that it hindered your enjoyment that much but it is what it is
OccitanyGaster
2024-10-14 20:45:10 +0000 UTCI'm not giving up. Lol I'm oobviously a pretty chill relax personality but this one was one of those moments that triggered me😅😅
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 20:26:34 +0000 UTCAh, I see what you're saying. That's interesting, I didn't think of that connection. I do know what it's like to like an anime 95% of the way through and have something at the end just gut punch you (in terms of not liking it) though. It really sucks when that happens.
Alberto Munoz
2024-10-14 20:20:23 +0000 UTC@Anorus, yeah that make sense. It was not really designed to be a revealed at all, but rather, an event in Okabe's character development.
James
2024-10-14 20:17:41 +0000 UTCNo, scooby Doo always had one of the main characters involved in the episode end to being the bad guy. Like every episode " I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids" mask removal scene. Not saying he is a bad guy, just disappointed in a played out plot line across massive amounts of media
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 20:14:12 +0000 UTCTony that makes sense when framed that way. I guess the difference for me was not perceiving it as an "Aha! it was Okabe all along!" Scooby Doo moment. For me, it was basically that Okabe had finally resigned himself to the belief that he can't save both Mayuri and Kurisu, and made his choice, believing that time travel only causes bad things. He's then presented with a ray of hope (albeit in the form of more time travel). So the cliche in my mind is more the one where a character's hopes are dashed as brutally as possible just as they begin to regain them.
Anorus
2024-10-14 20:03:41 +0000 UTCThanks for the answer. Lets see how you gonna like it moving forward. As mentioned before I REALLY hope you will come to love it again.
Sebastian Stróż
2024-10-14 19:55:25 +0000 UTCIt's been quite a while since I've watched Scooby-Doo, but I think I get what you mean. This sort of "I'm trying to help, but oops! I made it worse" thing is often used during comical parts of stories (and stories that are mostly comedy), and you felt it wasn't appropriate to use here in serious, main plotline stuff. If I have that right, I can see that point of view.
Alberto Munoz
2024-10-14 19:41:30 +0000 UTCWhat I would do differently is remove the idea that our main character is the culprit. There is an overabundance of stories that do this across so many genres of stories. That style of reveal was REALLY cool when you first experienced it but as life goes on each time it's used... the impact is less and less. If you were young and watched Steins;Gate and had never seen that style of twist, its prob epic af! But... LOL I am not young and have seen the main character involvement twist so many times that it felt lowball in comparison to how everything else has been highball.
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 19:34:23 +0000 UTCI personally like the reveal and view it as sort of a “there are consequences to messing with stuff you can’t control” type of moment. And I do think it fits well with the tenor of the show / how horrible Okabe’s luck is. Never really occurred to me that it was cheap. But if you disagree, that’s cool. Honest reactions are the best kind.
Sam
2024-10-14 19:29:41 +0000 UTCSo instead of saying what others have said already I would like to know what would you do differently? And, no. it's not a "gotcha" type of question. I'm genuinely curious since its first time I saw someone call it cheap. Since episode 1 we "knew" Okarin was there and him getting even more shat on by the universe is 100% on point for his character. This episode plays into last one and 0 but obviously we are not talking about it yet. That being said... I'm actually glad you got pissed of. Not that I like you got disappointed but always nice to see when people just show how they feel, regardless if we agree or not. Looking forward to last episode, good that you decided to cool down first. Maybe some comments will help clarify some misunderstandings and I hope you will love it again again <3
Sebastian Stróż
2024-10-14 19:21:22 +0000 UTCLiterally got exhausted just reading half of writings here. I guess I overinvested into comments, huh Sad that remaining of the episode was like torture for you
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 19:14:54 +0000 UTCI think there is confusion due to the perspective we are shown. Throughout the show we have been shown repeatedly shown that sending dmails to the past alters the world line (since we see okabe's reading steiner activate and everyone else's memories change). The past CAN be changed. The reason this scene is more confusing is because it is the first time we see Okabe on the receiving end of a dmail. Normally, we see "our" okabe send a dmail to past okabe, and the past Okabe changes his actions which causes "our" Okabe to woosh into the next world line. This time, our okabe is effectively the "past" Okabe (in the perspective of the Okabe in the video) and the one in the video is the one whose reading steiner would activate depending on "our" Okabe's actions after seeing the dmail. Since "our" Okabe is the one receiving the dmail in the present, there should be no reading steiner because the attempted "change" is in the present and not the past (from his perspective). All this to say the argument of "if he saves her it shouldve already happened" doesn't apply in the context of how this show treats time travel. This would be easier to see from the first person perspective of the Okabe in the video.
Halo S
2024-10-14 19:09:47 +0000 UTCIt was the same with Mayuri dying, like the universe forces her death to happen. The original Okabe does see Kurisu actually dead in that room after being stabbed by her father. It just so happens that this time he went back to try and prevent it, the universe still won and she still dies but this time by his hand accidentally.
Ryo
2024-10-14 19:03:10 +0000 UTCnice one
d_swordfish
2024-10-14 19:00:15 +0000 UTCMaybe you just had too high expectation and probably also had watched alot time travel related movie. Everytime I watch anime/movie/dramas, I would try not to predict the plot because it definitely would lower my satisfaction.
UnknownDeadpool
2024-10-14 18:59:54 +0000 UTCI was heated in the moment. I have calmed down and def plan to continue because I invested all this already. I think I learned a lesson about proclaiming top 3 animes before I finish them tho, lmaoooo that's on me
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 18:52:51 +0000 UTCFor me, I remember thinking the whole cliche of making him do it for the drama was dumb too, but it didnt really bother me much because I don't think thats really the point here. In my eyes, the reason the situation happens is because of Kurisu's Dad. How it ends, whether its Okabe stabbing her accidentally, the dad stabbing her etc, isnt really as important to me, because like we've seen with Mayuri, when someones destined to die theyre gonna die regardless of how its done ( i also thought the Mayuri train scene was a similar sort of eye roll as this one). My takeaway was that the dad is the cause and Okabe isn't going to be able to stop it just by directly interfering so he needs to think outside the box again, not that Okabe accidentally killing her matters So its like, yeah it's dumb when writers do stuff like this purely for cheap drama, but it's not show ruining for me in this specific case. More like a quick eye roll, but at the end of the day its just one possible death out of the thousands of other ways she would have died similar to Mayuri's fate. I was more interested in seeing how he was going to stop the outcome of Kurisu dying All that said, I can at least understand how you feel because there's been times where I've watched other shows or movies that have those moments where they're trying really hard to make a cliche feel meaningful and dramatic when you're not buying into it at all, and it is annoying af lmao. So I've been there, just not with this show personally
Flare
2024-10-14 18:40:24 +0000 UTCYes, exactly this. I understand if that scene ruins it for you in the aspect of emotion and cliche. But it doesn't ruin or change the story and the established time travel plot, because it's just 1 of the possibilities. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that HE was the cause for her death from the start, it's just in this specific loop. But yea, I'm glad he's going to continue Steins;Gate 0, that could give him some satisfaction after this.
Zed
2024-10-14 18:27:15 +0000 UTCI wasn't centering the scoobydoo cliche on only time travel stories. General storytelling as a whole.
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 18:24:40 +0000 UTCprob a great idea
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 18:23:51 +0000 UTCI do plan on watching it. I am deep enough into this that I want to see what else there is. Just cautious now.
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 18:23:23 +0000 UTCPersonally I don’t see the major hangup with it, the puzzle isn’t really solved yet, so I think it’d be fine to slow down a bit and simply observe. (Btw I think okabe being the one to do it was the best decision because it supports the causality concept)
who is this guy
2024-10-14 18:17:35 +0000 UTCThe previous episode without the ending cliffhanger is honestly a pretty good tragic ending to the show.
LegionaresCZ
2024-10-14 18:15:52 +0000 UTCI think the point here is that that moment isn't supposed to be some huge reveal. I think it is specifically cliched on purpose, and I think the next episode will give you some additional context into why it was done that way. Like everyone else has said, the point i think was more to set up that he cannot prevent her death in this super direct way, as it will ultimately result in the same outcome, in a way, this scene established that fact moreso than if dad had just stabbed her and then we had another time loop in which he stabs her. It makes it clear that the same rules with mayuri are in effect here without a bunch of extra time spent having to loop through and show it. In my opinion, it was a very efficient way to get that point across, time-wise, and with the finale next week I think you'll maybe have a better idea why it wasn't as horrible as it would've been as a standalone event.
Zach Harding
2024-10-14 18:14:57 +0000 UTCYou're mistaken about the timeline of that video. It's the same as Suzuha's timeline in where they failed to save Chris. Just as Suzuha said, she's not sure it will work. But it will be more clear in Stein's Gate Zero if you plan to watch that.
Erando
2024-10-14 18:14:24 +0000 UTCLast comment, remember that the time travel system in steins gate isn’t exactly linear. Future okabe isn’t going to be affected by the past okabe until the worldline actually changes. They are still on the beta worldline and kurisu’s death is still true until they change to another one. And as a reminder, there is only one active worldline at a time, it’s almost like timelines but the timelines are more so possibilities then other dimensions/worlds.
who is this guy
2024-10-14 18:13:20 +0000 UTCIf we talk about consistent writing, Kurisu was meant to die since the world line was still the same. Whether it was death by stabbing or whatever, she had it coming. Same reason why Mayuri was in a death loop.
skrrt
2024-10-14 18:11:45 +0000 UTCIt really feels like you may be misunderstanding something. It isn't that he specifically killed her, it's that on the alpha worldline she's doomed to die one way or another. He wasn't "always" the cause of her death any more than Nae (Mr. Braun's daughter) was "always" the cause of Mayuri's death because she accidentally pushed her off the train platform in one loop. It's not set in stone as the specific cause of her death. You can argue that playing the card of him being the one to kill Kurisu in one loop is cheap writing to incite emotions, and if that's all this is then that's of course a valid opinion. But nothing about it is any less self-consistent than the rest of the time-travel plot.
Anorus
2024-10-14 18:10:52 +0000 UTCA box falling on her head would have been so much less 🧀 and a lot better. To me. Anything. Any style of death other than the scoobydoo
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 18:10:18 +0000 UTCAgreed
Chaisen
2024-10-14 18:10:06 +0000 UTCEven though, you can definitely call this cliche, the problem is that he can't escape her dying, due to the attractor field. It doesn't matter if he hadn't killed her here himself. Hypothetically if he somehow had saved her from the dad, maybe a box would've fallen on her head. The point of HIM killing her is just to emphasize this fact even more, because even if he does everything to prevent her death, even he can become the cause for it. And it also brings more mental torture to the MC too, and more development
Zed
2024-10-14 18:08:13 +0000 UTCI disagree that it should have been another character to kill her, I think it’s actually most important that he was the one to do it. It scars him and scares him, leading to the future Okabe becoming determined to save her, leading to him sending the video message. The video message simply cannot exist without that motivation and that motivation cannot exist without the current Okabe experiencing catastrophic failure. Causality is in effect for the time travel system
who is this guy
2024-10-14 18:07:19 +0000 UTCThat’s what I’m thinking to. I think he thinks it’s like a “oooh guess what it was HIM all along if you never stepped in she’d be alive” type of cliche but it was more so of a “yeah nakabachi kills her, this is what you get for trying to change that have fun with the guilt”
Chaisen
2024-10-14 18:04:37 +0000 UTCunrelated to the dissapointment, i think most of the patreon would agree to want to see another episode 1 reaction after you've completed episode 24, maybe in the same session maybe a day or two after maybe do it on twitch to do a live reaction.
Haiiro
2024-10-14 18:03:43 +0000 UTCI know, we are still gonna go forward.
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 18:03:32 +0000 UTCAt 5:33 You didn't know why Okabe was confused that the time machine could go forwards and backwards. It's because in the other world line, it could only go backwards. This world line's time machine is better. Like others have said, I think this is supposed to be similar to Mayuri's case where because he was obstructing Kurisu's father from killing her, something else had to kill her instead. But I also understand that your disappointment is with the specific alternate death scenario they chose to depict in the episode. I haven't watched/read that many time travel stories, so this didn't hit me as a tired cliche. To me it was pretty heart wrenching, as the writers probably intended. But I can see how, if that's a plot twist you've seen many times before, it can strike you as really uninspired here.
Alberto Munoz
2024-10-14 18:01:30 +0000 UTCId say this is pretty high level. It implies that the original cause of her death is her dad stabbing her, and that all Okabe stepping in does is pass the burden onto him as punishment for trying to defy time itself.
Chaisen
2024-10-14 18:00:34 +0000 UTCah ur right Tony wouldve probably not hate it as much if it showed nakabachi kill her first, then okabe to kinda cement the fact that she would always die there
elijah lew
2024-10-14 18:00:05 +0000 UTCAlso don’t forget this isn’t the last episode, the conflict isn’t over yet
who is this guy
2024-10-14 17:59:04 +0000 UTCAbsolutely dude, no worries at all. I was just tryiing to help, as I was in the same boat as you when I watched it myself. Enjoy your vacation!
Isaac Noël
2024-10-14 17:57:08 +0000 UTCAnd like someone else mentioned, the reason the stabbing plot twist is huge only partially because we realize it was him that did it but more so because of how convergence is just as present in this worldline as it is in the alpha. She was destined to die there and then. I’m ngl I’m confused why you hate that so much but hopefully next episode redeems it for you (I’m praying 🙏🙏)
Chaisen
2024-10-14 17:55:59 +0000 UTCWhat got me about this episode was Professor Nakabachi. For a show that had a consistent style of writing up to this point, that scene seemed a little bizarre and random to me. Anyways, Okabe stabbing Kurisu is the sort of cliche you would see in a time traveling show, but I was personally not bothered by it. As for the plan, consider the following: Alpha Worldline Attractor Field: SERN Dystopia, Mayuri dies Beta Worldline Attractor Field: Kurisu dies The plan basically involves causing a divergence from the Beta worldline but not enough to jump back into the Alpha worldline. The universe is going to register the "Okabe sending the first D-mail after seeing a dead Kurisu" event without realizing that she's actually alive (this works because with quantum mechanics, the "observation" of events is more central to how the universe works). It's also important to make sure he sends the first D-mail to prevent any time paradoxes, and preserve the integrity of the current timeline (we can't simply save Kurisu without that first D-mail).
James
2024-10-14 17:55:39 +0000 UTCI see where the issue comes from, and i would have liked them to show the dr dude do the deed first and then have Okabe do the deed after on second attempt to show both us and Okabe that the attractor field thinga mabobber is in effect just like it did with Mayushii in the Alpha world line. That moment did not ruin it for since i was binging the entire show back when i first watched it in 2014-ish but i was still in disbelief that it was him, since we knew that she died during the first few minutes of the first episode and i also immediately watched the next episode so i did not really give too much thought into the events themselves.
Haiiro
2024-10-14 17:54:17 +0000 UTCI can understand your reaction at that precise point. But you will need to watch Steins Gate 0 tu fully appreciate and fully understand why this is a masterpiece
Félicien Michel
2024-10-14 17:51:49 +0000 UTCHonestly I don’t get what’s wrong with the stabbing plot twist, I’ve seen ppl complain about other parts of steins gate but never this part. As for the video Dmail, the one that sent it did not already save Kurisu, it hasn’t happened yet. That Okabe is from the worldline where Kurisu is still dead and he’s sending the video to this one to try and change it. We don’t know how he figured out his plan.
Chaisen
2024-10-14 17:51:25 +0000 UTCThis is high level writing. Like super high level😂 I think you’re discrediting a show you like just by looking at it so surface level. It’s really not supposed to be the big massive surprise
Flippnote
2024-10-14 17:50:39 +0000 UTCWhy is him being the one to do it that time not a high level of story telling? Seems like a pretty well done full circle moment to me
Owari
2024-10-14 17:49:39 +0000 UTCBecause I expected a higher level of storytelling as everything else in the series to this point has been. This is a Scooby Doo moment
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 17:44:27 +0000 UTC@issac I'm not sure any other character is the same level of cliche. It cant possibly be. This is such an old tactic in writing. Womp Womp.. for ME at least. I would have been way more bought in for any other character to have done it as the reveal. The main character doing it is just so 'omg I cant believe it moment' because it's such a force of the hand. I'm sure some people hype themselves into loving it but I just cant. It feels like old timey theater.
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 17:42:28 +0000 UTCI don’t really see the issue with him being the one who did it, it’s simply convergence ensuring that the death still happens in a sufficiently similar way. Different means but the same outcome
who is this guy
2024-10-14 17:41:40 +0000 UTCI don't understand the disappointment tbh
Owari
2024-10-14 17:41:25 +0000 UTCBut for me to explain more would probably be spoilers so lets just see :D
elijah lew
2024-10-14 17:41:03 +0000 UTCNot trying discredit your disappointment in what you see as a cliche in the story, you're totally correct to see it as a cliche, but Kurisu's death is at the centre of the attractor field in the Alpha world line, so the world converges on her death just like Mayuri's. To alleviate your disappointment a little, try to view the ridiculousness of Kurisu's death as the attractor field forcing her to die no matter what. In the original Alpha world line, Kurisu might have actually been stabbed by her father. Or she fell down the stairs. Or she got hit by a truck. All equally cliched, but serving the greater purpose of the story. I know it's not much, and I do agree I was mega disappointed myself when it happened, but hey, just tryin to stay positive.
Isaac Noël
2024-10-14 17:40:10 +0000 UTCI don’t see how? The twist is hardly supposed to be that it was him. If anything it should’ve been expected cause we’ve seen the same thing the whole show. The big reveal is that we have any way to stop it at all. It all abides by it’s own rules its had the whole show
Flippnote
2024-10-14 17:34:53 +0000 UTCIts kinda similar to how Mayuri gets pushed and died by the train which is super cliche but its just how the universe has decided she will die
elijah lew
2024-10-14 17:34:33 +0000 UTCYea she would always die at that point and this is one of those possibilities
elijah lew
2024-10-14 17:32:59 +0000 UTCLol ok but it was him...... 80s day time soap opera drama writing
DrumRollTony
2024-10-14 17:32:36 +0000 UTCYou’re just confused is all. From what we know of time travel, no matter what he did, she would’ve ended up in the same state, same as Mayuri this whole series. It didn’t always have to be him. After all, if he didn’t interfere, her dad still had a knife and there was still a confrontation
Flippnote
2024-10-14 17:20:17 +0000 UTC
