Vinland Saga 2x18
Added 2024-09-04 14:27:48 +0000 UTCComments
I realize some of what I said here can come off confrontational or rude. Please know I only mean it in terms of your views on certain plotbeats, not in anyway personally. It's kinda cringey to write this out like this, but I feel you'd misunderstand me otherwise. So yeah, I really disagree with what you said in this reaction tbh. Regarding Arnheid, Ketil, but also the tropeyness thing. I really dislike the "choosing not to communicate" trope as much as the next guy, but this just was not that. Arnheid was trying to flee with Gardar. The entire point of the arc was that somewhere in her mind she clung onto the hope of getting back to their earlier life, against her better judgment. As she said in I believe episode 15 (?), "Perhaps I was dreaming." You really think she would've saved Gardar and just let him go by himself? Obviously they wanted to flee together, at least at one point in time. She knows Ketil is speaking the truth when he confronts her, so she looks away, like most people do when they feel judged, embarrassed, or put on the spot in general. In terms of lack of communication, a) I think actually saying something would be heavily out of character for her at that moment, and b) genuinely what could she have said there? Arnheid knew Ketil well enough that he was already set on punishing her. She's a slave. She has been punished before. She knows the song and dance. I'm certain she's tried talking on multiple occasions and learned the hard way it doesn't work. So, she resigned herself knowing nothing she could've said would've helped the situation. Also, what was she supposed to say anyway? If I understood you right, you wanted her to mention her child before he started hitting her? Just imagine how that would've looked. This man steps towards you, stick in hand, ready to flog you. Right at that moment, you conveniently mention you're pregnant with his child. It would've reeked of a desperate lie. If anything Ketil would've gotten more mad and flogged her harder. Not communicating is only tropey when there is actually something to communicate. I strongly believe the scene would've been much worse off if Arnheid tried to say anything to Ketil. I also want to quickly touch on Ketil. I disagree with saying that he's changed suddenly. He was always spineless. If I were to summarize him in a sentence, I'd say he wants to have his cake and eat it too. There's a laundry list of things he did in the show which has shown this off on multiple occasions. He wants to have slaves, while still being liked by them. Evidenced by the fact he gives them these deals which promise freedom, almost guaranteeing they'll stay afterwards like Pater did, while being seen in good favor. This falls apart when it's actually questioned though. He never does anything about the retainers for example, even though they keep harassing the slaves. He never punishes them, because he wants to be liked by them as well. Just look at him refusing to punish them, even when they ruin an entire wheat field. He wants to appease both the slaves, and the retainers - seemingly a contradiction. Yet he maintains it anyway. He wants to keep the Iron Fist persona, but also wants to be gentle and kind. This one speaks for itself, but he wants to both save the kids thieving from them, and punish them because of his Iron Fist persona. This is again a contradiction, one which he perpetrates at every chance. He always shows a traditionally "Norse" mentality towards his sons, yet is confused when they grow to follow the example. Again, he can't possibly have both. Yet every time push comes to shove he acts in a way which implies he tries to achieve both at once. Most people, when facing such circumstances, are forced to choose one way or the other, which leads to personal growth more often than not. Not for Ketil. He refuses to choose. As I said, he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants everything to be "good," while doing "bad" things. This works as long as everything is going swimmingly, but it's a house of cards. One instability and things perk up massively. So his small empire collapsing wasn't some huge event, it was a long time coming. Yes, he is traumatized by past events, which explains a lot of his behavior, but that doesn't set aside the fact that he was always a spineless slaver who manipulated people around him to like him. As much as I hate Ketil, from his introduction really, he is absolutely one of the best written characters in the show. The fact that he doesn't even touch Arnheid, Einar, Thorinn and the like if anything is a testament to how insanely well this story is written. All this to say that I think you misread a lot about what was going on. You misunderstood Arnheid's character and judged her actions unfairly; and you misread Ketil's character and overly simplified him to an extent. It had a negative effect on the reaction imo, and I'm anxious how this will effect future reactions, since you've finished the season already.
Erjon Sejdijaj
2024-09-05 19:58:48 +0000 UTCVery well said!
daragh faro
2024-09-05 13:19:10 +0000 UTCI don't think it's right to say Ketil is a new person here. He was always this man. We saw him primarily through the lens of Thorfinn and Einar and he treats his male slaves well so by public viewing he comes off as a very good man. But in the background, he has a trauma complex over a loveless marriage, he is using Arnheid as a sex slave, and his father thinks he is consumed by a thirst for accumulation. "Sometimes a 'good' man is just someone who things are going well for at the moment." I think he's one of the best written character of this season because he exists all over modern society. In our society, we're wealthy and we've learned it is to our advantage to uphold decent values in public. But what do we do in private? And what would come out of us if our source of security was threatened? I also didn't see how communication could have solved anything here. Ketil had already lost it. If he wanted to listen to Arnheid, he would have waited and given her time to speak. He didn't do that; he immediately started hitting her. If Arnheid spoke the truth, it would have made him more angry. (She DID want to leave him) If she tried to lie, it would be both unbelievable and out of character.
Michael Uebele
2024-09-04 17:22:56 +0000 UTCi don't think arnheid talking would've solved anything, he is a piece of shit and was ready to kill her
GALLUMBAS
2024-09-04 16:55:22 +0000 UTCI think there is more to it. Arnheid was in the wrong because yes her husband came back but also yes she helped him try to escape and also she tried to escape with him (in their eyes). Also we are speaking in hindsight knowing that Kettels world has been turned upside down he is literally broken from the events that happened to him and how could she know that, she didnt expect that stick to ribs at first its clear.
daragh faro
2024-09-04 15:42:39 +0000 UTC
