Episode 2: How I studied Japanese / Series philosophy
Added 2016-09-24 05:36:29 +0000 UTCBibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
The second episode of Japanese Phonetics! In this video I talk about my Japanese background and the philosophy behind the series.
Thanks for the support everyone!
Dōgen
Comments
Love your pfp Brother
Jared Sohn
2024-01-03 01:24:24 +0000 UTCHi, I'm not so into Japanese movies and series that I could watch them 50x or more. Do you think it would be okay if I found a Disney movie, or a sitcom like Friends with Japanese dub and loop an episode there instead?
Maria
2021-08-18 07:14:43 +0000 UTCHi Isaac! Thank you very much for signing up—I hope that my series will prove useful for you! With regards to the movie, I recommend watching the same movie on repeat for at least a solid month, without consuming too much additional content, such that you essentially end up memorizing the entire movie through osmosis. While watching and listening to the movie, you want to try and pick up on the various rules that I introduce in the course. For example, once you learn the 4 mora 2 kanji noun rule, start listening for that in the movie. Next, once you learn about the lack of lip rounding in う, starting paying attention for that, and look at the speakers lips. If you do this with the same movie over and over again, not only will you memorize a ton of new words, but you'll also begin to pick up on a ton of phonetic rules, as you'll be able to concentrate on what the spoken language sounds like, rather than trying to do that and think about what the lines the speakers are saying actually mean (after watching the movie 5 or so times you should have a very good understanding of most what's happening, which will allow you to concentrate a little bit less on meaning, and more on phonetics). Again, I recommend watching the same movie on repeat for up to a month (or around 50-100 times) before moving on to new material. Cheers!
Dogen
2021-06-01 11:18:26 +0000 UTCHello Dogen! I have been aware of pitch accent for a long time thanks to Matt vs. Japan, but I've finally got your lessons and now I will be taking it very seriously. As an American, it has been my experience with foreigners in the U.S. that those with less of an accent are able to connect with others around them easier, so naturally a good accent became a goal of mine in Japanese. I'd just like to thank you for the great service you've done for this community by compiling so much pitch accent information into one easy to access place. As for my question, I need some clarification on the movie repeat thing. Should I repeat only one movie or all immersion content I watch? And what are the specific phonetic advantages I should be focusing on while watching the movie again and again? Thank you very much Dogen!
Isaac Malcolm
2021-05-31 17:50:20 +0000 UTCThank you for your comment, Alisha. Not only have I learned more about Japanese phonetics through putting this series together, but I've also learned quite a bit about communicating information and concepts like this. It's been a fulfilling journey so far!
Dogen
2021-02-22 02:30:49 +0000 UTCHi Dogen. I'm so glad I've come across your Patreon and Youtube pages. Like Luis above, I also have a B.A. in linguistics, although I am now a veterinarian. I appreciate your thoughtful and nuanced approach. You have a skill for taking a complicated topic and breaking it down into clear, comprehensible bits of information. Thank you!
Alisha Worth
2021-02-21 06:00:16 +0000 UTCMy pleasure Luis! Very glad to hear that you're already enjoying the series so much!
Dogen
2020-08-15 00:02:54 +0000 UTCHey Dogen. I got a B.A. in linguistics many years ago. It was my first love, though I'm a clinical psychologist now. I admire your approach and commitment, and it's good to get to know you a bit through these videos. I look forward to learning from you! Thanks for putting these together. (Also, I VERY much agree that starting in romaji is a very good way to start. The comments you make at the end of this video really resonate with me.)
Luis Morales Knight
2020-08-14 04:11:35 +0000 UTCYep!
Dogen
2020-04-09 06:51:22 +0000 UTCThanks for the reply! That’s very interesting and useful :)
Florence
2020-04-09 06:50:22 +0000 UTCHi Florence! Unfortunately people who are older usually have to work a bit harder, but it seems that you're prepared for this, so I'm sure you'll make a lot of progress. Because you come from a French background it may be worth pointing out that French has a lot of lip-rounding, and/or lip-protrusion, while Japanese does not. I imagine that if you've never studied this phenomenon before you'll be able to make some noticeable gains very quickly. In my experience, I've also noticed that some speakers say certain consonants like P with absolutely no aspiration, which can sound a bit foreign. I talk about both of these phenomenon later in the series, but if you'd like to jump to these lessons now, here are some links: Lesson 34 (Lip rounding, among other topics): https://www.patreon.com/posts/japanese-episode-16410747 Lesson 41 (Aspiration, in the context of the K sounds): https://www.patreon.com/posts/18574535 Cheers!
Dogen
2020-04-09 00:55:33 +0000 UTCHello Dogen! First of all, thank you so much for this course! I'm around lesson 10, and I think it is really fantastic :D I just have one concern: I'm starting your course just now even though I already know really advanced Japanese (I'm a translator above N1 level), because I feel like I lose credibility when speaking to Japanese people, who get fooled by my foreign accent (I'm French btw ^^). They always assume I'm still learning (well, one never stops learning Japanese... but you get what I mean!), which is quite embarrassing. I also think working on my speaking could make a difference in my career. ANYWAY, my point is: Do you happen to have any tips for people like me who are tackling their accent issues at a "too late stage"? Do you maybe already have a video on that? You say that starting to work on your accent at a later stage of your study is very hard, and I believe you.. But I'm really for the challenge! :) Sorry for the long comment, and again: Thank you!! :)
Florence
2020-04-08 12:14:23 +0000 UTCIt's certainly not the end of the world, especially since you were always listening to native speech! Your strong foundation means that you should be able to pick up on whatever mistakes your making right now fairly quickly. N1 certification is very impressive!
Dogen
2020-03-15 05:13:14 +0000 UTCuff... I did the opposite way... just studied everything at once but mostly watched tv shows etc for hours and hours daily , listened only to japanese music in car and at home and used private japanese lessons to speak as much as possible with my teacher... so I totally immersed myself in a japanese enviroment... I am a college drop out , but it do have the N1 after the 4th attempt (because of my back than slow reading speed)
Alex Spat
2020-03-13 13:07:43 +0000 UTCHi Justin! I personally believe it's best to have around 6 months or so of wholistic studying done before concentrating on phonetics, so I would personally recommend using Genki or Minna No Nihongo for a bit and then coming back to this series. Cheers!
Dogen
2020-01-29 04:47:05 +0000 UTCHey Dogen, you mentioned in the lesson about not splitting time studying phonetics and vocab/grammar evenly and that it’d be better to focus more on phonetics. My question is that, lets say that I’m a complete beginner and I spend 10 hours per week studying Japanese, how much of this time should I dedicate to each area?
Justin
2020-01-28 21:44:57 +0000 UTCNo worries Patrik—hopefully the series is a bit less stressful for you than a regular book course would be. Good luck with your studies and move! Appreciate the support!
Dogen
2019-10-19 07:09:41 +0000 UTCoh boy... I might be coming to Japan soon. Sooner than planned. Did not plan this at all... just got a job opportunity in a country that I would love to get to know. I'm not the book study type. Never was and am 37 so i dont think i will be. I learned Portuguese in Brazil in 4 months just wondering around and talking to people... But Japanese is not easy... I'm panicing! :p Oh, I'm Belgian and speak Dutch, French and English. Sorry, I dont have a question... Just venting my fear.
Pat
2019-10-19 05:57:38 +0000 UTCHi Nicolas! Hope that you enjoy your time at UW--it's truly a wonderful school. This may come across as somewhat controversial but I recommend not drinking and partying, and really hitting the books hard—I never drank during my four years at university and I think doing so allowed me to concentrate on my studies much more so than most of the other students I knew. Also I would encourage you to start watching a Japanese movie on repeat right now; 12人の優しい日本人 works well! Also may be completely irrelevant information but I was a member of the Phi Delta Theta fraternity and it's one of the few fraternities that really focuses on academics; might be worth checking out!
Dogen
2019-07-13 13:54:43 +0000 UTCHi dogen! I'm an upcoming freshman at the University of Washington and I was hoping that you'd have some specific advice for learning Japanese in a formal setting. Specifically, how do I best take advantage of my circumstance to maximize language improvement? Also, how do I get good grades? I've self studied for a few years and got placed into second year (JAPAN 201). Thank you so much for the series (rewatching it now haha)!
Nicolas Brassard
2019-07-12 18:36:06 +0000 UTCHi Ethan, thanks for the message and congratulations—really appreciate it! I do think that the interview would indeed be a good resource to use for listening. Depending on the length, it might be worth it to try transcribing as well (when you take into consideration that you'll listen to it at least a hundred times). Cheers!
Dogen
2019-03-10 06:23:27 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, sorry to hear you've been ill recently.お大事に。If you could spare the time, I'd appreciate it if you could answer my question. I'm going though videos 4 to 9 again to help my understanding of phonetics and although I would definitely like to watch the same movie again and again, I unfortunately don't have the time. But recently, I found an interview with the producer and lead actor of the yakuza game series. I just wanted to know if watching this, to help with my studies is beneficial. I thought this conversation might be somewhat natural? But I mainly just want to know if this would be good to learn off. Thank you for your time Dogen. By the way, congrats on doing you tube full time! must have been a scary decision to make but its always nice to see someone following there passion!
Ethan Gatenby
2019-03-09 16:08:22 +0000 UTCHi Elsa! First of all, congrats on passing N1! That's a huge accomplishment! I don't think you're doomed to fail at all ^^ That said, if you've never studied phonetics before you may have to try and keep your expectations realistic. There's no doubt that you'll make massive progress at first, as there are a lot of small tips that can help a lot, immediately, but once these are out of the way you'll most likely hit a plateau that can be difficult to leave without a lot of continuous effort. That said, if you're willing to put the work in you'll certainly make noticeable progress over time. Incidentally, because you're French I will say that you should try to keep your lips as relaxed as possible when speaking—there is essentially no lip rounding in Japanese like there is in French. Hope this helps, and thank you for the support! Cheers!
Dogen
2019-02-07 04:52:26 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, I just started your Japanese Phonetics course, but I don't live in Japan, I just passed the N1 (but never cared about my pronunciation up to now), and I'm almost 40. Also I'm French, and we're known for having a strong accent even in English. After watching this video and your reply to Drew, I'm wondering, am I doomed to fail? lol In any case, I'm looking forward to going through your videos! All the best. :)
Elsa
2019-02-06 16:29:12 +0000 UTCSorry to make an already long comment longer, but I saw where you answered the "what level do you think an older person could reach" question in another comment thread and it made me think of something else. I wonder if 100% correct native pitch accent (much like 100% comprehension) is impossible simply because of the plethora of words and approaches. For example, my wife frequently blames mispronounced words etc on English being her second language, but nobody would know that if she didn't tell them. I mispronounce words all the time because I heard them wrong, or read them without hearing them, or was exposed to a British/Canadian/Aussie/etc version first, but I never think of myself as having less than 100% native everything, because it is my first language. The reason I'm curious about the studies and enjoy thinking about this kind of stuff, is as a teacher I want to be realistic with my students with what they can accomplish (and with myself when I am the learner), but also as a teacher feel that there is very little that people can't learn with the proper effort and most "reasons" that we can't reach a high performing level are effectively just excuses...but sometimes there really are physical barriers and it is important to know why/how and whether it truly can't be overcome or not.
Drew B
2018-12-11 03:23:04 +0000 UTCHey Dogen, In this video you mention that the brains ability to accurately mimic spoken language deteriorates over time. Can you tell me what studies you are referencing or where to find them? It has always been my belief as a teacher (of music) myself that while there may be some (even significant) reduction in the number of neural connections that are made past certain ages, for the average adult the main reason they are impeded from overcoming certain things (such as an internal sense of rhythm or a native accent in a language) has more to do with established patterns of movement/thinking and a general unwillingness to slow down and dumb down movements to the point where they can mimic the new activity perfectly. (which i think you allude to in the video) My theory is that children learn languages so quick not only because of additional connections but potentially more so because a) literally all their time not eating and sleeping is focused on it and basic motor skill development b) Adults tend to speak very drawn out and slowly with babies and children which accents phonetic sounds like dipthongs c) In their early years, children are surrounded by other children who will likely make fun of them since they're different and so they might try harder to mimic the standard accent of the language I think adults can mimic these if language learning is a major goal by spending more time, listening/memorizing movies (as you suggest) but slowed down to the point where they can hear each hidden sound, words that run together, and practice until they can do the line at 100% and it lines up in a recording, and having native speakers correct their words mercilessly. I know you agree that all of that will improve peoples' abilities since you basically suggest all of it. So I wonder to what degree the studies proved degradation in the brain's ability (did an area atrophy? is it a connections formed thing?) and in your personal experience learning and watching other's learn to what degree you think that affects people. Like 5% more difficult? 100% more difficult? Or perhaps, the best you can hope for is 80% correct? TL;DR Do you have links to the studies you mentione; and what do you think a person (past age 25 when most brain development is complete) who is studying with guidance such as yours can achieve (80% native accent? 90%?) Thank you, this series is amazing and I'm enjoying going through it again. Drew
Drew B
2018-12-10 22:52:52 +0000 UTC
