POD 131: Extended IV DMT: An interview with DMTx participant Carl Hayden Smith
Added 2025-09-30 05:19:00 +0000 UTCIn this episode I talk with DMTx test subject and psychonaut Carl Hayden Smith about his experience as a participant in Dr. Chris Timmermann's DMT infusion research at Imperial College London. The headier implications of alternate realities are explored more than I anticipated. This episode will be followed by an interview I recorded with Andrew Gallimore discussing his perspective on the research as well as his new book. Enjoy!
Comments
Another note, I’ve always been apprehensive with DMT. On the precipice of a breakthrough I am either stricken with fear or anxiety about continuing or I am contented with what I’m experiencing. Maybe the dose I need is too high and I’m stuck in this liminal space where I always convince myself to stop. I would love to try something like DMT X
Tyler Stark
2025-12-02 15:11:47 +0000 UTCI gotta get into this breath work
Tyler Stark
2025-12-02 15:09:37 +0000 UTCI want to be part of these type of studies. How can you be recruited to be a participant?
Sam Lumley
2025-11-02 22:31:04 +0000 UTCIs there a video version of this coming out like in the YT short?
Maxwell Versace
2025-10-27 01:01:12 +0000 UTCFor me, it wasn't that I question in anyway what he experienced, or that it felt 100% real to him. The part i had trouble with is when he would make a statement about the experience as if it's was some sort of universally understood fact. I'll have to listen again to find an example. If I have a trip and I think I am an octopus, I wouldn't come back to reality and talk to people about the octopus world and the laws of that world as if it was real and everyone would understand it as if it's something everyone has experienced. That's the part that threw me off a bit
Cheminterested
2025-10-24 02:29:16 +0000 UTCI agree! We need the Dave Farina voiceover interjections to prevent buffoonery from spreading 😂
Alice
2025-10-24 02:08:44 +0000 UTCMore unsolicited opinions, though I did really enjoy the spectacle of buffoonery, and Hamilton's tactful responses: While cool and strange, The whole thing is so unscientific. It reminds me of the saying "poor people are crazy, rich people are eccentric"... It's ok to do drugs and have conspiracy theories, but it is insane that we validate people like this as being somehow connected to materialist scientific consensus reality, and as people who should be given funds under the pretext of valid "research". (Not saying Hamilton is doing this) Anyways, Ancient aliens didn't make the pyramids bro. The "noonautics" website is completely unhinged. Claims to be using a satellite constellation and AI to map "lost civilizations". Must hit really hard as an idea if you're not very bright.
Alice
2025-10-24 01:49:28 +0000 UTCMy bullshit/grift/financial scam spidey senses were going insane with this guy. There were multiple instances where Hamilton caught him in outright lies (i.e. "the kobo tribe has more dmt due to putting people in caves").... Those websites really don't add to his credibility. Would love to have Hamilton do a crossover episode and have Prof. Dave investigate his claims and organizations 😂
Alice
2025-10-24 01:39:48 +0000 UTCFor those of you who have been in a state of suspended bewilderment regarding the reference to a peptide agonist of 5-HT2A... This is the paper being referenced: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15714759/ The idea is a peptide-like compound that ostensibly inhibits INMT, preventing biosynthesis of DMT even in an environment abundant in tryptamine, INMT, and SAM (methyl source) -- not a direct agonist of 5-HT2A. (The paper is a bit weak on the methodology. it would be nice to see it replicated with modern spectroscopic techniques) It follows that Andrew Gallimore's idea is to "inhibit" the peptide-like compound allowing the endogenous biosynthesis to proceed unimpeded.
Peretz Golding
2025-10-21 20:25:00 +0000 UTCHe is not your typical guest, but I think you may enjoy having a guest like John Michael Greer on. His commentary is particularly thoughtful in the area of science vs psychology vs spritualism which Carl seems to be scratching at here.
Dylon
2025-10-20 00:34:56 +0000 UTCI found this podcast REALLY interesting and I enjoyed your pushback, Hamilton, as another commenter said. I always like multiple perspectives. Would have liked to hear more about the telepathy and future prediction, as a commenter said. Loved the point about Sasha Shulgin focusing on pro-social psychedelics. What a great guy. I find DMT extremely hard-core. The most frightening experiences of my life…. Had a psilohuascha experience and had the idea that I was an entity! Not a DMT entity, a human entity. Nevertheless a product of a larger mind. It made the question ‘are DMT entities real’ a bit irrelevant. What’s behind the unity? A plurality! And what’s behind that? We are such linear creatures, aren’t we? Our language is linear. Please do an interview this guy again! Would like to hear you both talking a bit more.
Sarah
2025-10-18 10:45:27 +0000 UTCSomeone I know has severe ADHD though he’s not diagnosed. He doesn’t want to be diagnosed. He found that n,n-DMT gave him ‘more room in his brain’ and he can now talk to me and listen for much longer periods. I think the effect of psychedelics depends on a variety of factors, though.
Sarah
2025-10-18 09:31:02 +0000 UTCOMG I loved the guy! He’s amazing!! Still listening, though. It’s hard to articulate that sort of stuff (telepathy, an awareness of the future etc) in a way that gives a materialistic scientist the proof they require. And people don’t open up if the interviewer isn’t getting it. Or isn’t interested. In his interview with Joe Rogan, Rick Strassman told him that he had had an experience of being a weaver at the time of the creation arc of the covenant through his learning of ancient Hebrew. Joe didn’t listen and the conversation moved on. I would have liked to hear more about that. Terrence McKenna noted in a video I watched that DMT entities are made of language. This guy talks about seeing language. I know someone who has seen the same symbols…. Maybe, as consciousness, we can travel through time via the medium of language…. Or some such thing. But not in a materialistic paradigm. In that paradigm it’s all just stuff made up by the brain. Who knows. It all comes down to belief, I guess. Science can be a belief system. 🤷♀️
Sarah
2025-10-17 20:26:46 +0000 UTCJust starting on this one today, having read Jules’s essay on how he briefly got into charismatic Christianity and how he now prays to God but isn’t Christian. He’s got some interesting ideas, though: “In some ways, charismatic Christianity gets some things right that New Age / psychedelic spirituality gets wrong. Christian culture emphasizes humility, while New Age spirituality tells us we’re all Gods. Christian culture emphasizes serving the poor and the weak, while New Age spirituality tells affluent seekers to follow their bliss from one luxury retreat to the next. Christian culture emphasizes commitment, family and community, while New Age spirituality breeds nomadic fuck-boys. Christians worship the Universal God of Love, while New Age seekers surrender to morally ambiguous plant-spirits or trickster entities. And Christian culture emphasizes strong sexual boundaries, which is important when you’re dissolving your ego.” I asked him if he was referring to the DMT jester when he wrote about surrendering to morally ambiguous trickster entities. I need to meet someone who has surrendered to the jester. I think they would be interesting to know. Obscure chemistry is becoming more and more appealing!!! Actually it’s not, but this interview looks REALLY good!! 🤡😂
Sarah
2025-10-17 17:42:06 +0000 UTCJack Alloca interview please
pablob
2025-10-15 17:08:59 +0000 UTCSame. Didn't feel very, "scientific" at all. Felt kinda bullshitty
Cheminterested
2025-10-13 18:59:30 +0000 UTCI don't like how this guy just makes these wild statements like, "I experienced telepathy and recognition", or "the entities were upset with me because I wasn't scheduled to be there" and then just moves on with no follow up, explanation, or evidence as proof of anything
Cheminterested
2025-10-13 18:58:00 +0000 UTCI love your tact in interviews such as this. "Interesting, interesting..." ; "... in HUMANS??" ; "Has this been studied?". I would like to see some more push-back (although maybe you sense that the interviewees wouldn't be very receptive in the moment) or perhaps a voice-over interjection for some of these situations with the actual facts. I couldn't help but notice most instances you did this Carl would either respond with vague authoritatively asserted clarifying statements, adroit subject changes or an appeal to ignorance even after stating things as a fact. Again, reputable scientists are often most easily identified by their use of cautious language, their unwillingness to overstate certainty, and a constant acknowledgement of the limitations present in their work. Channel your inner Dave Farina Mr Morris.
Jade
2025-10-11 22:58:09 +0000 UTCWhat are you going to do if someone says 'I talked to God and saw the future, I'm now going to make decisions in my real life based on this and start a church to save the world'? "Oh yeah mate maybe they'll just like sign a waiver sayin they can't make a church or sum like that?" Incredible.
Big Bezel
2025-10-10 19:22:08 +0000 UTCI was a long time patron, and I had to leave to focus the money a bit more on school/life as a broke student. I’m proud to return an RN now! I missed this so dearly…
FlyingGuava
2025-10-10 05:14:14 +0000 UTCThis conversation was very interesting, but I felt like it ventured from quite solid insights and experiences into baseless assertions at times that lost me a bit. Like the endogenous DMT being off the charts and the light being stuff being spoken of as if it were fact. I thought this talk when it came out was very engaging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myq_Hc_39aI It goes into the actual experiences of Carl, Jack Allocca, Alexander Beiner and Anton Bilton from the DMTx experiment at Imperial. It's moderated by Andrew Gallimore and Graham Hancock too.
Douglas Skene
2025-10-09 23:53:05 +0000 UTCYep, Daniel McQueen's group was looking into that.
Douglas Skene
2025-10-09 23:45:57 +0000 UTCmaybe group integration therapy with your mother would be a good idea, or any sort of integration support for that matter. I'd recommend that especially since you are doing it independently
Arylexplorer
2025-10-06 23:35:44 +0000 UTCPls release the lsd chemistry video soooooon
Bryson Needles
2025-10-06 20:39:43 +0000 UTCMaybe if you're referring to the lawyer in fear and loathing 😉
Song of the Trees
2025-10-06 16:42:20 +0000 UTC"Their endogenous DMT levels are off the charts" lol
grimmkarashian42012
2025-10-05 08:03:18 +0000 UTCIn a recent interview with Hamilton on Pickard’s podcast, they both seemed to imply that Hamilton is putting together a longer-form presentation of Pickard’s work.
J
2025-10-04 22:07:19 +0000 UTCI agree that studying telepathy (or related parapsychology) isn't necessarily unscientific, but the scientific work done thus far doesn't support the existence of telepathy. There is nothing wrong with asking these sorts of questions and studying them scientifically, but it is a potential waste of time on an endeavor that has historically borne little fruit.
Hamilton Morris
2025-10-04 18:13:07 +0000 UTCThat great! We need people like you!!
Bobby Stone
2025-10-04 06:38:55 +0000 UTCWhy would studying parapsychology or paranormal phenomenon be "unscientific"? Isn't science a method of inquiry, not a set of metaphysical principles? If a study on para-phenomena is executed in a scientifically rigorous manner & doesn't make apriori assumptions that bend interpretarions to fit the results into a researcher's personal world view, then what's the problem? Well, of course people de facto treat "science" as if it's an empirical proof for certain philosophical assumptions. Many individuals self-identifying as having a "scientific worldwiev" has set out on crusades to crush scientific inquiries that ask questions they don't like! Ofc there's also the social ridicule & lack of respect that comes with of being associated with the "woo-woo", which surely discourages many scientist from venturing into "heretical" topics.
Honey-el
2025-10-04 06:29:03 +0000 UTCThese experiences aren’t meant to be told. There aren’t words for what you go through. I think people just do the best they can when trying to explain. If you really wanna know you have to experience it yourself.
Bobby Stone
2025-10-04 06:23:04 +0000 UTCAre we ever going to get the Pickard interview?
tosstosstoss
2025-10-04 03:46:31 +0000 UTCI don’t understand why some of the comments are so bias just because this guys trip was all over the place and a little over the top at times lol it’s what he experienced and went through, why are we even having a discussion about it not being what you thought? I think you guys forget that psychedelics literally dig deep in your mind and it all depends on your own mindset at the time how your trip is going to go, also it sounds like he did a little research on other people’s trips and experiences so maybe that was in the back of his mind going into his trip. Let’s not be so quick to judge and say he is making stuff up cause we really don’t know.
Jasmine Padilla
2025-10-03 14:52:08 +0000 UTCI don’t know exactly what I was expecting, but I found most of the experience reports from this extended-release experiment somewhat disappointing. I had hoped for sustained conversations with the beings, or at least some kind of new revelation. Instead, most of the participants I’ve heard seem to carry a kind of contrarian disposition toward the experiment itself. The experiences don’t differ too much from a standard Erowid dmt report.
DevaAngelwater
2025-10-02 20:48:43 +0000 UTCI did not know you had ADHD. Are you medicated? Have psychedelics have impacted your attention? Any specific psychedelic that had good or bad effects?
NateAGeek
2025-10-02 20:06:56 +0000 UTCI notice QRI was mentioned— Hamilton, you *must* get Andrés on this podcast if you find this sort of research fascinating. I believe you have briefly met him before, he is the psychedelic cryptography guy. I am sure he would be open to an interview. Reach out to me if you would like his email.
Ivan Mounteer
2025-10-02 18:59:53 +0000 UTCAll the new subs are lawyers…
Meek
2025-10-02 18:03:08 +0000 UTCI love you Hamilton! You're my GOAT. Right behind Alexander Sasha Shulgin. I am determined to be the next big name in psychedelic chemistry!
The-DextroMethOrphan
2025-10-02 17:11:15 +0000 UTCOther way for me! Well sort of! I heard Hamilton on Shane Smith after I hear Callaghan! I was a huge fan of Hamilton’s pharmacopeia and loved Vice till the spilt. But Hamilton has always been my favorite journalist/chemistry dude! Absolutely love him! Check out all gas no brakes if you haven’t!
Jeff Stroberg
2025-10-02 15:17:23 +0000 UTCWelcome channel 5 people! Anyone else like me find Andrew Callaghan through Hamilton? 🤣 just listened to the interview and I gotta say it's fantastic the guy is a talented conversationalist/interviewer - really enjoyed it
Aidan
2025-10-02 07:10:50 +0000 UTCHe made a good point about hospitals.
🚯
2025-10-02 05:46:59 +0000 UTCYes, thanks for pointing that out. I couldn't find any work where only four participants were able to complete the study. But given that Carl Hayden Smith was in the lab of Chris Timmermann at Imperial College I assumed he was referencing the work described in "Effects of DMT on mental health outcomes in healthy volunteers" (now attached) where four of 25 participants dropped out. That explanation makes the most sense to me, but I could email Smith to clarify.
Hamilton Morris
2025-10-01 21:34:00 +0000 UTC🙂
M
2025-10-01 21:14:52 +0000 UTCI’m doing an MSc at Exeter in Psychedelics, currently learning neuroscience and pharmacology stuff, and I’m finding these interviews incredibly useful. About to go to a talk with one of the DMTx people as well so perfect timing of this episode!
Meek
2025-10-01 15:58:26 +0000 UTCIncredibly interesting and very informative. Thank you !
oooxide26
2025-10-01 13:07:40 +0000 UTChttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12346280/
Kenneth
2025-10-01 04:04:02 +0000 UTCWell I’m sure if you did IV dmt you’d feel the same. I agree the vr thing was odd. I don’t think anyone’s gonna get addicted to escaping life w IV DMT
Matthew Markey
2025-09-30 22:56:01 +0000 UTCAt the beginning you say 4 people drop out but he said only 4 made it through and 16 dropped out?! (29 min ish)
mia
2025-09-30 22:54:27 +0000 UTCWhile I on one hand appreciate the peek at what one of these trial members experiences, this guy is very frustrating to listen to in the first half. Maybe I'm just the boring materialist in the room, but holy cow this guy sounds delusional. Telepathy? Intelligent otherworldly entities? Expirencing his 'neurochemistry six months in the future' (whatever that even means)? Living in VR? He sounds exactly like what the media portrays psychedelic users as, almost to the point it's hard to believe he's not intentionally playing to a stereotype. I do appreciate Hamilton steering him back to more grounded topics though.
ST
2025-09-30 22:20:14 +0000 UTCQuite an interesting listen. I enjoyed your pushback on some of Carl's more out there ideas. Hope to hear some actual information about the research from Andrew.
Magnus
2025-09-30 20:10:44 +0000 UTCBanger of a pod!
matt jauregui
2025-09-30 19:48:50 +0000 UTCDMT is neuroprotective when having a stroke???
Kaleb
2025-09-30 19:38:32 +0000 UTCThe part of the trials and the deeper story is also something i am really curious about, since everyone is different and i find it hard to navigate in that sense. I have been diagnosed with c-ptsd. Also having a mother who has been diagnosed with c-ptsd. Because i was not able to find any trial to be part of i tried to have sessions with my mother on my own. I did inform my therapist about this but am still struggling guiding myself and my mother at the same time. By accident i had a mdma session with my mother on the day the fda made their decision. Luckily i live in the Netherlands. Being experienced with dmt and mdma and other psychedelics helped a lot. I would love to participate and openly talk about experiences but am not sure where to enroll. Keep up the good work!!!
Stefan Scheffer
2025-09-30 16:49:16 +0000 UTCWhat could be headier than this! Stoked
Eric
2025-09-30 14:23:01 +0000 UTCIncredibly interesting stuff, looking forward to hearing more from Carl in future! Also wanted to say Hamilton, you mentioned in a recent interview how Jitka Nykodemova had a portrait of Sasha above her fume hood when you were students together. Don't be surprised if in future you hear of people looking up to you in the same way. This podcast was a huge part of what inspired me to go back to university to study chemistry in my 30s. Hope you know how much your work is appreciated!
Levi Neeson
2025-09-30 12:54:25 +0000 UTCMaybe I am misremembering but I thought I heard mention of a group trying to establish a DMTx project in Colorado?
JJ Gobbler
2025-09-30 12:31:49 +0000 UTCO-PCE
Hamilton Morris
2025-09-30 06:42:11 +0000 UTCWhat was the compound mentioned in combination with 2CB? Couldn't quite make it out.
Nunya Beeswax
2025-09-30 06:31:23 +0000 UTCYo
Mason M.
2025-09-30 06:26:00 +0000 UTCOMG, I love this topic <3
DR4GON8IT3
2025-09-30 06:19:25 +0000 UTCTechnohausca, metaversadelics, NvidiaRTX5090amine... What am I hearing haha. This guy is certainly an interesting character.
Sean Qualischefski
2025-09-30 05:40:58 +0000 UTCI was annoyed to have a notification interrupting my 10th listening of the 4 hr Dr David E Nichols interview... But this is acceptable. Thanks Hamilton!
Cameron Leake
2025-09-30 05:31:06 +0000 UTCRight on Hamilton! Just ate some Ps. Caerulescens and so about to tune in :)
CosmicCamote
2025-09-30 05:21:44 +0000 UTCExcited to listen to this episode, hot cup of tea by my side!
DarkMagus32
2025-09-30 05:21:41 +0000 UTCsleep will have to wait… hamilton just posted!!
rayah
2025-09-30 05:20:20 +0000 UTC
