POD 53: The inside story of the DEA battle with lawyers John Hunter and Matt Zorn
Added 2022-07-28 22:00:14 +0000 UTCThis week the DEA officially withdrew their intention to prohibit five psychedelic tryptamines, this is the inside story of the legal battle behind the success featuring the great lawyers John Hunter and Matt Zorn.
wired.com/story/race-to-engineer-new-psychedelic-drugs
Five Tryptamine Scheduling Notice
Two Phenethylamines Scheduling Notice
DEA Withdraw Notice
Comments
Fantastic interview and insight into what it takes to fight broken laws via a broken system. How easy it is to make things illegal. And yet how hard to fight the status quo.
Davin
2024-03-29 01:27:16 +0000 UTCgeddit hamirton
Śiva Saraswati
2022-12-31 22:42:01 +0000 UTCHello from Mexico. We are out of patience luck and blood. We need you guys to loosen the grip on our neck and legalize the drugs you gleefully buy. I know im probably preaching to the converted but its important to me to remind everyone the real cost of the war. Im paying it down here. Been paying it for 20 years now.
Alex Borges
2022-08-11 15:45:11 +0000 UTCI understand Hamilton's sentiment but where I could see others getting confused is generally members/employees of a terrorist org are considered to be terrorists. e.g. one would not consider an ISIS member to not be a terrorist themselves. Following this logic one might get the impression that the slogan says employees of the DEA are each individually terrorists. Which then leaves only another small logical step to conclude those supporting this slogan are not interested in finding commonalities and working with DEA employees ('terrorists').
Todd Murphy
2022-08-04 09:16:54 +0000 UTCThanks, it seems reasonable to think that "Fuck the Police" and "The DEA is a Terrorist Organization" are at least somewhat similar sentiments.
Alexander Gow
2022-08-03 23:01:35 +0000 UTCAnd you'd be amazed how common unforced errors are from supposedly high-end legal teams (and judges willing to ignore said errors and rule with bias). That's as much exposure to the legal system as I ever hope to have but seeing how the sausage is made didn't fill me with confidence in the bedrock of our democracy.
Chris Newport
2022-08-03 18:15:59 +0000 UTCThe scientists and others in the field with an interest in DiPT that wouldn't speak out remind me of the case I joined to prevent Vinod Kosla (Oracle billionaire) from privatizing Martin's Beach in central CA. I'm not even a surfer (the others were) but I joined my friends in it because it was a right I wasn't prepared to forfeit through inaction. And the billionaire and his minions lost in the end, and precedent was set. Sometimes all it takes to defeat Goliath is a few warm bodies to show up instead of scurrying to hide from intimidation that may only be imagined.
Chris Newport
2022-08-03 18:12:39 +0000 UTCThey thought "defund the police" was obvious too, but it wasn't exactly a winning strategy with the mainstream, and constantly misunderstood. (And meaning very different things to different people too.) Your merch isn't a political platform obviously, but it certainly strikes a different tone than "some of them mean well but the DEA shouldn't exist". Hat slogans, like Twitter, are perhaps not the place to expect much nuance.
Chris Newport
2022-08-03 18:00:09 +0000 UTCCompletely agree with the above poster., congratulations to you all, and thank you for sharing your insights into how you can beat these shitheads at their own game
Grey bears on crack
2022-08-02 18:49:41 +0000 UTCThanks for the thoughtful response, as always. I know YOU think this is all pretty obvious, but not all of us have considered everything in as fine detail as you, hence the question. You have to understand that of course, you find your own positions the most obvious, while every other person finds them slightly less obvious as we are left to interpretations whereas you are the only person with primary accounting. You did explain the case of Terry Dal Cason but was hoping for a bit more of an explanation of your nuanced attitude between the police and the DEA. I didn't mean to patronize you (pun intended) but was just looking for a response that provided a little more detail into your thinking, which you provided, so thank you.
Alexander Gow
2022-08-02 15:03:08 +0000 UTCI think the DEA are a terrorist organization that are responsible for countless deaths and ruined lives, but I like some chemists who have been employed by the DEA and if I blindly hated Terry Dal Cason it wouldn’t be constructive, I think I explained this. I also think categorically hating law enforcement as opposed to specific laws and policies is counterproductive and unlikely to effect positive change. The DEA (as opposed to law enforcement in general) are exclusively dedicated to harmful policies that I oppose, but that doesn’t mean I hate everyone they employ. No unexamined cognitive dissonance, I think this is all pretty obvious.
Hamilton Morris
2022-08-02 04:26:10 +0000 UTCHey Hamilton, genuine question here. Within almost a minute of each other, you talk about selling merch that says "the DEA is a terrorist organization" and then quickly after how it is important to not other people and find commonalities on all sides, rather than supporting slogans such as "fuck the police". I'm wondering if this unexamined cognitive dissonancence or rather something else. I don't mean to criticize, just wondering if you think there is a conflict of thought there or I'm missing something, perhaps a belief in the difference between critiquing individuals vs organizations. Personally I love the merch lol and hope you can detest organizations while understanding the complicated fact that they are made of sometimes well meaning individuals.
Alexander Gow
2022-08-01 22:07:34 +0000 UTCSuch great work!
Octopappa
2022-08-01 19:03:15 +0000 UTCLoved it, any chance of a video version?
Grey bears on crack
2022-08-01 16:04:30 +0000 UTCSorry about your luck, but Germans are not quick to trust information from a Jew.
Dangus Rangus
2022-08-01 03:20:16 +0000 UTCHamilton has a tremendous amount of content that is freely available. If you check out the wiki on his subreddit, you can find close to a complete collation of all content he has ever created, most with links to the articles, videos, and podcasts he has created or been a part of.
Alexander Gow
2022-08-01 01:50:51 +0000 UTCThanks for the deep dive into how this all went down, and congratulations on the win! Interesting to hear about all the unforced errors in the proceedings by the DEA. Maybe they were caught off guard from having some real pressure applied against them.
James
2022-07-31 21:42:54 +0000 UTCMany thanks to Hunter and Zorn! And of course to you and Wallach!
Adam Perkins
2022-07-31 18:06:01 +0000 UTCThank you Hamilton. Really want to have transcript of this and make prints to stick on my wall.
pei
2022-07-30 15:52:54 +0000 UTCLoved this one Hamilton
Ghilas
2022-07-30 14:59:58 +0000 UTCI make one episode freely available each month on my YouTube channel.
Hamilton Morris
2022-07-29 22:54:21 +0000 UTCYour version of argumentative is my favorite. This is epic, congratulations to all of you. Swimming upstream is difficult - though there is much more to do, let this win sink in. It's massive.
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2022-07-29 20:18:41 +0000 UTCI’ve just listened to your recounting of struggles involved against the DEA, Hamilton and just wanted to say first of all congrats on this historic win and second of all to say thanks for everything that you have done over the years and everything that you continue to do in relation to the rationalisation of the drugs conversation. Huge thanks and respect to you. Thanks Kieran
Kieran Collins
2022-07-29 20:16:56 +0000 UTCFor free content and a really good overview discussion, I would simply refer folks to "Joe Rogan Experience #1136 - Hamilton Morris" on YouTube. Another good Patreon Podcast is "Crackdown" out of Vancouver, Canada.
Peter Thomas
2022-07-29 19:09:14 +0000 UTCBig congratulations to Morris, Wallach & Co.!
Peter Thomas
2022-07-29 19:07:57 +0000 UTCJust joined , I’m excited to learn !
Ghost Mode
2022-07-29 18:00:32 +0000 UTCCan't believe I missed out on the "DEA is a terrorist organization“ merch!
Gabrielle Intenzo
2022-07-29 15:20:58 +0000 UTCApplause to all involved. A victory indeed.
Brett
2022-07-29 14:45:41 +0000 UTCSponge bob
Shawhin Layeghi
2022-07-29 13:51:19 +0000 UTCGreat news, thank you for such an insight into the case! Do you have any information or links to sources of similar type cases (new scheduling of substances) along with names participating in legal defence against it, that is currently going on in UK or Europe? Would like to find a way to support such cases in UK and Europe as well.
Sabine L
2022-07-29 09:46:33 +0000 UTCIt takes a nation of millions to hold us back. Congrats Mr. Morris on the victory.
giticzb
2022-07-29 06:30:49 +0000 UTCBout to synthesize a metric ton of DiPT to celebrate 😤
giticzb
2022-07-29 06:28:10 +0000 UTC👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
snakoter
2022-07-29 06:23:23 +0000 UTCNot to sound like a conspiracy theorist but is it possible that the DEA went after DiPT because they were specifically trying to undermine you and your research? IMO you are the biggest threat to the DEA more so than anyone you've ever interviewed with the exception of Sasha Shulgin.
Adam Perkins
2022-07-29 05:05:45 +0000 UTCWow, I wrote a message during the DEA comment period, but never expected actual results. Nice! Listening now!
Travis Terrell
2022-07-29 02:09:55 +0000 UTCHey Hamilton. Don't get me wrong, in my opinion it is totally okay to pay for these podcasts and I do so happily. However, as you say, it is very important to get the word out there. All my friends are genuine and good people, but they all support the prohibition by not ever thinking about it. It is very hard to argue, because they have almost 0 knowledge about all the misery that is caused by the prohibition. I do talk to people when I get the chance, but it's very hard because in Germany the prohibition is also deeply integrated in people's heads. So I'm just asking if you could make these streams public? You could, for example, release them earlier for us and then upload them to YouTube after 2 weeks. That way we would have some stuff to educate people with.
Martin Paridon
2022-07-29 01:15:05 +0000 UTCThank you
Cheminterested
2022-07-28 23:12:36 +0000 UTCI am referring to what happened in 2017
Hamilton Morris
2022-07-28 23:12:07 +0000 UTCAs someone who has worked for the US Government for the last 15 years, thank you .
Dangus Rangus
2022-07-28 23:00:25 +0000 UTCWould you say that you’ve created a blue print on how to handle the scheduling of substances? And do you think that it is something that would worry the DEA? Great work all around!!🙏🏾
Bret
2022-07-28 22:40:31 +0000 UTCBabe wake up POD 53 just dropped
Leonard
2022-07-28 22:38:48 +0000 UTCCan you point to the kratom cases referenced? If you're talking about the DEA dropping it's intention to schedule kratom a few years ago, I am familiar. I wasn't sure if there was something new. I follow the AkA
Cheminterested
2022-07-28 22:38:41 +0000 UTCTHANK YOU for everything you do, Hamilton!
David Riggs
2022-07-28 22:23:52 +0000 UTCExcited for this content. Thanks Hamilton!
zach jones
2022-07-28 22:12:25 +0000 UTCI am in a public policy program sponsored by the United Nations, and am on a scholarship to law school. I am looking for resources that detail the impediment that CSA scheduling has on research, specifically research that can lead to scientific and or medical advancement. Do you have any resources you can recomend? Appreciate your work immensely!
Majdi Awad
2022-07-28 22:10:32 +0000 UTCThe link to the Tryptamine Scheduling Notice doesn’t work. PS Thanks for all you do <3
Ryan Campbell
2022-07-28 22:02:31 +0000 UTCSuper exited! Thankyou Hamilton we love you 🙂💙
Coop Astro
2022-07-28 22:02:00 +0000 UTC
