No Matter How Stupid And Evil You Think Qualified Immunity Is, It's Worse
Added 2024-07-08 10:03:01 +0000 UTCOA1049
Qualified Immunity is insane. It's one of several ways that police evade accountability for truly monstrous acts. As unpleasant as that is, we're fortunate to have an amazing guest to take us through the history of it, as well as a new case that may be cause for optimism!
From her UCLA Law bio: Joanna Schwartz is Professor of Law at UCLA School of Law and the Faculty Director of the David J. Epstein Program in Public Interest Law and Policy. She teaches Civil Procedure and a variety of courses on police accountability and public interest lawyering. She received UCLA's Distinguished Teaching Award in 2015, and served as Vice Dean for Faculty Development from 2017-2019.
Professor Schwartz is one of the country's leading experts on police misconduct litigation and the author of Shielded: How the Police Became Untouchable (2023).
Comments
This. Prof Schwartz mentioned stagnation, but would really love to hear more about similar standards. How could case law ever be established when there’s pretrial dismissals that there’s no existing case law. Where else is this a thing? (Bracing myself for really depressing examples from Matt)
Kevin
2024-07-14 08:21:08 +0000 UTCWhy doesn't the fact that the Constitution FUCKING EXISTS count as being "clearly established"? You really need something that explicitly enumerates every single possible type of situation in exact detail in order to know you shouldn't do it?
Jason Valasek
2024-07-09 16:08:40 +0000 UTCSeparate note - and I want to be clear I think QI is batshit insane - and from Schwartz' comments my below assumptions are not being seen in Colorado or New Mexico - but it seemed to be a (logical mistep?) to say that "it won't bankrupt local govts because there are hardly any cases" and "they all have indemnity insurance" (I mean, so did the churches). My thoughts are - if QI gets legislated away, people would be able to bring cases where previously they didn't even start the process, because they were told they had a snowball's chance of success. So (*in the absence of any police behavioural change*), case numbers would have to increase, as would success rates. Then, as more cases are brought, more precedent is created, encouraging more cases - this is how it has unfolded with clergy abuse litigation. Then, insurers calculate premiums on risk vs payout - so premiums would go up considerably (until police behaviour turned the corner into - I don't know - not being morally bankrupt). This would all be a good thing, imo - as with all markets, if the price becomes too high, behaviour changes. Maybe morality/ethics tests might become part of police force applications ... Will be interesting to see the 10-15yr outcomes from Colorado & NM. Aaaand the fact remains police shouldn't gratuitously violate people's rights.
I am a philosophical hole
2024-07-09 15:28:35 +0000 UTCI didn't really understand why "case is dismissed because there are no similar precedent constitutional violation cases" isn't a catch22? I mean, of course there isn't a precedent, because all the similar cases got dismissed without being heard?
I am a philosophical hole
2024-07-09 15:05:20 +0000 UTCLOVE the show. Amazing episode. So eye-opening. Thank you!! ALSO, just a small tech thing… ARE you aware that the transcript function is not enabled in the Patreon feed? Transcript is available in the free show but not the subscription show. Just FYI in case you want to fix/change. THANKS!!
Mark Daniel
2024-07-08 19:04:30 +0000 UTCSo true. Impossible to pin down.
Opening Arguments
2024-07-08 17:29:26 +0000 UTC😂
lauren
2024-07-08 15:35:44 +0000 UTCAwesome episode on a topic that comes up over and over in my practice (qualified immunity). Prof. Schwartz is an excellent voice on this, and I'll be checking out "Shielded," for sure.
Katie Herrmann
2024-07-08 15:18:58 +0000 UTCI'd guess July 2 or so, given what SCOTUS ruled the day before.
Chris Conley
2024-07-08 14:47:37 +0000 UTC‘It’s been a pretty miserable Supreme Court day’ and ‘a rough 24 hours in America’… Still no idea when the interview was recorded.
Jersey Steve (no, not THAT Jersey)
2024-07-08 11:14:33 +0000 UTC
