BABYLON - The ending
Added 2023-01-23 19:20:36 +0000 UTCI've now seen Babylon twice. I have so so so many complaints about it, and yet I absolutely adore the film at the same time, and I can't wait to see it again. One thing that I really struggled with was the ending. For those who have seen it...what did you think? Did you love it or hate it?
Comments
I wish the film ended with Margot Robbie vanishing into the darkness. Roll credits there, leaving more to the imagination and reducing the film length
Coyote 87
2023-03-11 17:20:13 +0000 UTCI agree. It's a doppleganger to La La Land. If La La Land is about dreams, then Babylon is about nightmares. I think it is fully a representation of the industry crumbling, a lack of direction artistically, as well as Damien's own cynicism coming out very blatantly. And yes, the end is memorable, but like a lot of elements in the film, it's only partially understood on a deeper level, which is why it all falls apart. But I don't care. I love it, and I will likely see it many more times.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-25 22:16:27 +0000 UTCYou know people who say Babylon is a love letter to Hollywood totally missed the point. It's a scathing indictment of Hollywood in particular to the people whose lives were destroyed by the industry. And these people will never appear on a red carpet, they will never be studied in film school but their essence lives in in the moving pictures we enjoy. The ending montage was certainly memorable I will give it that. I had people walking out of my theater during the ending montage which I thought was funny. They stayed past the elephant shit but watching the Na'vi again was too much
Emerson B
2023-01-25 03:54:14 +0000 UTCThanks. From memory it was established by Robert Redford. I'm guessing that he is now in his eighties. I don't know if he is still involved with the festival
anthony scully
2023-01-25 03:17:52 +0000 UTCAll good. Yes, it does still take place. But I do agree it's a little less high profile compared to others at this point. Not really sure why.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-25 02:57:02 +0000 UTCI have. A film that definitely resonated with me a lot.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-25 02:56:29 +0000 UTCTechnically, there’s no right or wrong place to ask questions. But if you want to directly ask Maggie something that’s not related to the thread topic, you can always message her. If you go to her creator profile, it will give you that option. Write to her there and she’ll get back to you. But if you don’t mind, if you’re willing to let any one of us respond, I can answer your question. Yeah, the Sundance Film Festival is still around. In fact, it’s going on right now. It’s not what it used to be in its ‘90s heyday, but some interesting films still come out of there. Also, thanks for bringing the film Christiane F. to everyone’s attention. I’d never heard of it before but when I looked it up it looked interesting. I might check that out. Hopefully it’s available somewhere.
Bennett Oliver
2023-01-25 02:23:17 +0000 UTCSorry, I realise that this is probably the wrong place to ask questions. Does the Sundance film festival still take place? I have not heard about it for years
anthony scully
2023-01-25 01:19:09 +0000 UTCHave you seen the film Christiene f? It's about German teenager in the 1970,s who is addicted to heroin
anthony scully
2023-01-24 04:17:23 +0000 UTCdefinitely not.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-24 03:20:19 +0000 UTC🤔…Damn, can’t think of any reason to refute that. I’ll look into it again when I see it a second time. Still don’t think it earns the ending though.
Bennett Oliver
2023-01-24 02:52:10 +0000 UTCI actually loved the sunset scene. I think it really did capture very purely, the beauty of filmmaking, without a lot of the pretenses that usually clouds those moments in the film. It also felt very accurate to what it's like making a real film, which I appreciated.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-24 02:37:10 +0000 UTCI admire its energy and drive as well, along with its scale. It is a wild ride of a film, and I wouldn’t mind seeing it again. But once it starts to slow down a little after its first hour, you realize it isn’t saying as much it thinks it is about Hollywood, and that Chazelle is far more interested in the scandal than the work. And even that sunset kiss moment strikes me as glib and soft headed. Even with all the madness you’ve just witnessed, Chazelle is saying, a moment like that makes it all worth it. It’s the statement of a man who is a simple romantic, in thrall to excess, and ultimately unwilling to dive in to the complex nature of Hollywood. And you’re right, the Jean Smart monologue is hamfisted and starry-eyed, and all the more unconvincing that it comes from a Hedda Hopper-type character. I know Chazelle is going for irony here but…I doubt that Hopper had much reverence for anybody in that world, especially when it was her job to report on their vices. But yes, despite all that and more, I share in your admiration of the film and its crazy, wild-eyed ambition, and am glad it exists if only that it proves that such films can still get made. But whoever manages to get another one like this film greenlit I hope will dive a little deeper in their endeavor.
Bennett Oliver
2023-01-24 02:31:03 +0000 UTChaha yeah, I thought about Once Upon A Time In Hollywood a lot as well lately, in regards to it.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-24 01:35:37 +0000 UTCyeah the soundtrack, despite my issues with it, lives rent-free in my head.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-24 01:34:43 +0000 UTCI think you are spot on here. I actually really dislike the Jean Smart monologue. Disliked it the first time, and disliked it even more the second. It just feels so hamfisted and preachy, and starry eyed-lame in the way Chazelle tends to be. It's very pretentious. And for sure, the caricatures and the aimlessness of its ultimate meaning, make the ending feel derivative and disconnected. We don't need to be told that movies are dying, and that this film is an amalgamation of historical film elements, woven together to make a modern statement, while also hammering in Chazelle's own cynicism, and his apparent creative death wish here. the whole film already makes that point throughout, and the ending just gets tongue-tied, and unsure of how to be conclusive. It doesn't need to keep talking at us. Film as a medium is driving itself into the ground, and the film is a reflection of all of that. It doesnt work, and much of it feels unsatisfying, and yet somehow its vigor and push to the final finish line feeling the film carries throughout, I found utterly mesmerizing and delightful. Sure, at times I feel like I'm treading through mud, while at others it feels like a runners high, and I'm elated. As I said I have a fondness for the films that really go for it, and might really miss, that have a sort of Apocalypse Now! ambition. And this one really had that for me. One of the best theatrical experiences I've had in a while. In some ways that's sad, while also a pleasant surprise of hope.
Deepfocuslens
2023-01-24 01:34:13 +0000 UTCOnce I mentally signed on to what the movie was trying to do at the end, I liked it. A lot of the dissatisfaction I felt during my first viewing of this movie is due to just having no idea where it was going. The boogie nights style violence and depression in the second half was not something I saw coming and and I think I kind of resented the movie for it breaking down characters I was starting to like and want to see succeed. But I’m sure that on a second viewing it would be better. This is like the opposite of once upon a time in Hollywood. First time seeing that movie I was expecting a tragedy the whole time only to be met with pure joy at the end.
kron
2023-01-23 20:20:34 +0000 UTCI loved the first hour, from the party to the end of the day’s shoot. I thought it was bravura, high-energy filmmaking that was engagingly funny and outrageous. If Chazelle had had the story simply be about those first 24 hours, he might’ve had a better film. It would’ve more or less had the same flaws as the rest of the movie, but it would’ve been better. The problem, I think, is that Chazelle tackles Old Hollywood the same way Scorsese tackled Wall Street in The Wolf of Wall Street: he gets hooked on the decadence and sensory overload of it all, and wants to get the audience hooked as well. But, like Scorsese, aside from a few instances of dark humor here and there, Chazelle doesn’t really delve into the fallout of the wild, lawless spirit of his world, the casualties that get destroyed by its corruption (yes, it shows Jovan Adepo’s trumpeter and Li Jun Li’s singer more or less get forced out for being minorities, but does Chazelle really invest in their characters’ stories as much as he does Pitt and Robbie’s? And does any of that compare with some of the really dark things that we know went on and got swept under the rug?). That may certainly be Chazelle’s intention; he didn’t want to place any moral judgment on what was going on, which, in of itself, is fine. But what then is he saying about Hollywood? That stars fade and hellraisers get into trouble with people that they shouldn’t? That people get left behind by change? Those sort of statements have been said before—with deeper feeling and more nuance, no less—in other films like, as you pointed out, Boogie Nights, which this film yearns to emulate in much the same way the porn industry did Hollywood. Babylon doesn’t have much to say about Old Hollywood any more than Scorsese had much to say about the financial world, other than it allowed for a lot of bad, scandalous behavior. I think what Chazelle ultimately wanted to say though, with the movie and especially with the ending, is that the people of that era, despite the fact that they were nouveau riche folk looked down upon as degenerates by the ruling class, made art that mattered to people, that it was as just as much of value as art of any other medium. The problem is, despite a few moments like the sunset kiss and Jean Smart’s monologue to Brad Pitt, Chazelle doesn’t really delve into anything that evokes the magic of silent-era cinema, nothing that shows why it has lasting power. He’d much rather indulge in the debauchery with vignettes no doubt taken from Hollywood Babylon using caricatures of real-life people from that era. I will say that I was never bored by what I was watching, and Pitt and especially Robbie invest in their thinly conceived characters with gusto, but in the end there’s no deeper meaning underneath the sensation, nothing that would earn that wistful, celebratory montage that Chazelle concocted for his last musical number. In short, Babylon is more of a monument to the era’s excess than it is to its artistry, and that’s why the ending doesn’t work.
Bennett Oliver
2023-01-23 19:57:51 +0000 UTCExactly! I absolutely love movies and so does Chazelle and I feel that love pouring out from that montage in such a genuine and passionate way. It's a bit dorky but so is he and it's very sweet. Babylon as a whole to me felt like sitting down with a buddy and just gushing over our favorite movies and the craft and gossip behind the scenes. I found it energizing where so many found it exhausting
Tyler Shobe
2023-01-23 19:37:52 +0000 UTCI was pretty taken a back by it on my first watch and I honestly couldn't tell you what he was trying to do with it but on the second watch I really loved it. To me it's a corny but very earnest love letter to the medium and the sort of ripple effect it has had across its history. I've seen some interpret it very cynically as a eulogy but to me, Damien Chazelle is clearly a man that loves movies and I have no reason to think he thinks cinema is dead. Plus the music is absolutely fucking banging and I'm absolutely dancing in my seat during that whole sequence and as I leave the theater.
Tyler Shobe
2023-01-23 19:33:28 +0000 UTCI loved the ending. Yes it is incredibly heavy handed and on the nose, but film is such an important part of my life. I wouldn't still be here without film, and it's Chazelle showing his love, admiration, and appreciation for it. How it can connect to everyone, people of different ages, cultures, and backgrounds. I can't fault anyone that rolls their eyes at it though, I totally understand that, but it really just worked for me. The film as a whole did really, as messy as it is.
David Goleb
2023-01-23 19:23:45 +0000 UTC
