The Sopranos 5x12 Reaction

@BND got it, having a criminal boyfriend warrants getting bullied by the authorities and a bullet to the head. I guess North Korea and Stalin’s Soviet Union had a point after all 🤷🏻‍♂️. Trust me, in a post-capitalist society we are all benefiting from other people’s suffering, that doesn’t mean we deserve to die because of it.

Gaboxxy

He didn’t seem to understand the point being made. And tbf, some of my wording probably didn’t help. Biases aside, the emphasis was on assigning blame so differently to people who all don’t have control of their childhoods or wiring (I didn’t only say childhood in my original comments, i specifically included ‘wiring’). That doesn’t mean chris had any more control over his innate traits that would lead him to this path (think of most shakespearean tragedies) even if it’s not all tied to being influenced or groomed. He seemed to take that to mean suddenly I’m saying chris isn’t a victim or a tragic figure. Put it another way: not everyone who has tony’s childhood would develop his mental issues. Not everyone who has chris’s childhood would develop substance abuse. This show always had a push and pull with nature vs nuture.

Veya

Doubt it. I’d interested to know why you think that. To me, she was behaving exactly like someone who suspected something was up. Her character is fairly naive sure, but there’s no way she would’ve been that clueless..

windyMelon

The point she knew what was going on was literally when she reacted, looked around, said no no no and tried to escape. She obviously was clueless before then.

Julien

@Edward. M I mean dude, with all due respect, we can say the same about you. You were borderline ok with Ade dying because she chose the life and you don’t wanna “infantilize” grown people yet from the outside it looks like you’re going out of your way to at least be sympathetic towards Chrissy. It’s ok, we all have our biases, but we can’t be acting like our biases are better than other person’s.

Gaboxxy

Its impossible to know if Chris ever seriously considered running away with Adriana. What we do know is that any notion of doing so completely evaporated the moment he saw that destitute and miserable family at the gas station. Chris knew that he could never be happy with that sort of life.

Farbod

Dude, everybody knows these are bad people LOL. Some people might choose to look past it and just enjoy it as a show, some might take it more seriously, but 99% of the fandom (mostly male btw) completely understands these are horrible human beings and don’t make justifications for them. It’s honestly in communities like Breaking Bad’s, AOT’s, HxH’s, Peaky Blinders’s, Berserk’s, etc. in which I see many more people unironically justifying the character’s evil actions.

Gaboxxy

@Gaboxxy Oh I completely agree that they manipulated her and every other informant they've had and I'm fine with that. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for any of these people, they're human garbage. Is Adrianna a nice person (relatively speaking) sure, but she's still a part of that life and she benefits greatly from it, so fuck her. I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to everything she's aware of and is complicit in just because she's a likable character? Nah bro, I'm not built that way. So yeah, if the FBI has to lie and manipulate these pieces of shit in order to take down organized crime I'm all for it. Fight fire with fire. The only issue I have is that they probably should have done a better job of keeping them alive, but hey, rats are a dime a dozen.

BND

Tony B did Boardwalk empire after this show its a gangster show as well on HBO

robert klein

Heavy episode for sure but also wanted to mention that Drea (Adrianna) won an Emmy for her performance and during her speech she joked about wanting to simultaneously die, cry and throw up but that everyone already saw her do all of those things, just to add a little levity to this episode. I heavily agree that out of all the "Criminal" characters Adrianna was the most innocent and way too trusting of Chris who has literally given her no reason to trust him, it was so heartbreaking to watch this episode knowing full well what was going to happen.

Nyeisha Melvina Clark

Most men watch (and rewatch) the show understanding the dynamics but enjoying the black humour, like the mafia genre deserves.

Diego Palma

I haven't even watched the reaction yet: I just wanted to say that you two are the ONLY people I've EVER seen who watched the sopranos properly. That actually understood the dynamics and what the show is saying with these characters. Most people (men) watch the show completely unironically.

Levi

*Very* tough to top 6x18 through 6x21

Mike

I think you should reread what I said in the other discussion. I think you got too hung up on my wording about “throwing bail” if you think i’m changing my arguments. Since when is grooming the same as actively influencing? He’s influencing aj and meadow, is he grooming them? Grooming is a more pointed action which is why the distinction became sharper after season 4. Again, you need to go back and reread the other discussion because i was emphasizing the disconnect between arbitrarily assigning different types of blame in light of the fact that people don’t control their childhoods. I asked when would adriana be able to learn properly and when would tony or aj be able to? Did i say here that christopher had chances to learn how to be any different? Here i said christopher still had individual traits (that would still not be under his control) that isn’t 100% linked to tony. Not that he had any more control of it (would he have chosen to be into filmmaking, if he knows how much it threatens the mob? obviously not. Tony wouldn’t give a shit if chris was into woodworking). Also everything you’re pointing out pre season 4 is conjecture. Not the most unreasonable ones, but the show doesn’t give us direct support it. Chris always looked up to Tony, so does Aj. Chris likely did not have any other father figures, this could just mean Tony didn’t actively stop him joining the life and just decided to mentor him after, not primarily see him as a plaything from the beginning (his reaction to chris getting shot in season 2 doesn’t seem to make much sense if this is the case). Chris questions why the life is good enough for him but not others…his father is Dickie, a legend according to Tony and Dickie was Tony’s own brother figure as mentioned by Adriana. He’s also in this inbetween generation between himself and people like Jackie Jr. and Meadow. And finally, about Tony’s ultimatum…Chris literally threatened to go to hollywood and sale mob screenplays in the pilot….of course Tony is uncomfortable with the fact that Chris would want to pursure that particular vocation?? Goodfellas was literally brought up in that same scene.

Veya

It’s crazy how people can shift and change their arguments to fit the narrative they’re tryna push. You literally argued against me that these guys childhood is one of the main reasons why they behave the way they do and make the decisions they make. We know Christopher’s been idolising Tony since as early as 11 years old probably even earlier as he states in season 1 that all he’s ever wanted at a certain point was to be a part of the Tony Soprano crew. Tony is probably the only consistent older male figure he’s ever had. Tony brought him into the business, he is Tony’s pet project. Just because in season 4 Tony becomes explicit in his manipulation of Christopher, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been going on for a long time. We even see in season 3, Christopher question why the life’s good enough for him but not for others and Tony tells him how different they are and how he loves him and he’s a good boy. Is that not manipulative enough for you? In season 2 when Christopher tries to pursue the movie thing… Tony tells him that would be the end of their association… how is that not actively influencing him?

Edward. M

Facts. I’m glad you brought that up because how Lola feels about Tony is how Milena feels about Christopher.

Edward. M

Not sure why chris is given so much bail. If you look back to his character in season one he always wanted respect above all. He shot a person in the foot for making him wait for pastries. He wants to be so eagerly made even when tony himself put it off. And he wants to be a well respected hollywood player. Most pointedly what were we last shown before he made his decision? A poor family at a gas station, the furthest thing away from the type of people he respects. I’m not sure how all of that could be put on tony when we see in the show tony didn’t actively manipulate him until season 4 and given what we know about tony and chris’s father dickie (adriana mentions this already in early season 5) it puts even more complications in his dynamic with tony. Chris always had individual traits that would have led him to his decision here.

Veya

Fun fact: Adriana didn’t actually die. She managed to escape and reunite with her brother, Joey, in LA who had just moved from New York where he had spent the past decade as a struggling actor and living with his Friends.

Jihn

This and the next 2 eps is the best 3 episode run of the whole series.

Erik D

he's a very love-hate character for me. his treatment of Adriana is horrible, and he's often not much better to other characters, but his arc throughout the whole show is one of my favourite character arcs in any media which leads me to definitely have a level of affection towards him.

castration_rite

@Abacus I think Chris saw that family, saw how miserable the dad was (even when the rest of the family is apparently doing ok) and came to the conclusion that whatever path in life he chooses he will be miserable, so might as well be miserable while living "comfortably" with access to money. It's like he has said before: "it's like the regularness of life is too hard for me"; so he always numbed himself with drugs, alcohol and materialism so life could be bearable to him. Letting go of any of those things was extremely hard for him.

Gaboxxy

I don't completely agree with your assesment, I think Milena did give credit where credit is due, but I did find hilarious how despite everything Lola still manages to act more angry and hateful towards Tony in this episode than towards Christopher. Christopher literally almost choked Ade to death and sold her out, yet somehow Tony crying is what really pisses her off lol.

Gaboxxy

I might be alone but from this moment on my love for Christopher skyrocketed because he was no longer an abuser and just a victim to Tony, and the way he responds to this. I also blame Tony more for this happening. He groomed Christopher perfectly to make sure if anything like this happened he would choose Tony. Obviously he has a choice and can make it himself but I wouldn’t expect him to considering everything, so I can’t really be mad when he doesn’t.

Cole

sadly, this is one of the big spoilers of the sopranos i knew. i've actually know for like a decade because my college roommates and i binged watched those top 10 mojo videos and this scene came up in a few of those, if i remember correctly it ranks very high in the top 10 saddest deaths on a tv show. so since minute 1 i knew adriana died and for some reason i even remembered the details, so it's been hard watching for the first time knowing how her story ends 😔 i can't help to find silvio and paulie funny but at the same time they're some of my most hated characters. both are sociopaths and literally feel nothing when killing someone they supposedly care about. i hate most of these characters (as persons, they're great characters) but those two take the crown.

sand_fl

Back when Carmela met the Jewish psychiatrist, her price to stay in the marriage is $50,000. Now, her price is $600,000. The Emerald ring can only go bigger and bigger. "La Cerva" translates to "the doe" in Italian, so It's particularly interesting that her final moments depict her embodying her namesake by crawling on all fours. Her crawling also evokes childlike vulnerability, another symbol of innocence. Adriana was always associated with innocence in this show, so it's not surprising that people generally sympathize with her despite her lifestyle. All in all, I think Adriana's storyline in the show is about the dangers of tying your life and worth to abusive partners. They will not change, they will not be better, and you won't get your honeymoon with them. It's a tragically common story as I personally knew some women in real life who keeps coming back to their Christophers.

IanJ

Tough episode to start a Monday with lmao. Great commentary, I think they nailed Chris' complexities, as well as how sociopathic Tony is knowing exactly what to say to manipulate Adriana. Even watching it's easy to think he's telling the truth at first. Chris is a very fatalistic character, like Tony he's resigned himself to this life. Adriana's death is definitely rough because of how trusting she is. Even the creators hated having to kill her. But there's a lesson that you do eventually have to harden yourself and make tough choices. Carmella's story was interesting to me on rewatch. In one episode the mob wives talk about Hillary Clinton, and how she stayed with Bill but 'set up her own little thing'. How she took a negative and made it positive. Carmella responds with 'that's true, she's a role model for all of us'. It's exactly what happens here. She sticks with Tony now that she feels like she has more control and can 'do her own thing'.

Mark M

It all goes back to the infantilisation of grown adults imo. Now if that was route the ladies wanted to take and the rest of the patrons, I would understand if it was balanced and fair across the board. Instead Adriana never ever chooses this life, it just happens to her and she’s a deer caught in headlights. It’s not like she saw Christopher’s best friend get shot in the same bath tub she took a bath in as early as season 1 and still stuck around. In the ladies opinion, Christopher chooses Tony on multiple occasions but Adriana never chooses Christopher, she’s being held hostage.

Edward. M

Her-mees (as Tony says) is the normal English pronunciation of the ancient Greek god, but the scarf that he bought is from a French brand, so presumably it's pronounced in the French way "air-Mez" as LM say it. Pretty minor and grey-area as Sopranos malapropisms go.

Abacus

I've always said Her-mees, definitely heard others say it too. Not sure what to think now lmao

Mark M

Nice parallel between Chris and Carmela making their decisions in this episode. Chris realises that leaving the mob would mean a dreary, boring, normal life, and gives up Ade. While Carmela can leave and divorce Tony if she wants to, she just can't take his money with her. She therefore would be choosing a "normal" life, which she doesn't want just as much as Chris doesn't want it, so they arranged a sit-down, and came up with a number, just like mob negotiations.

Abacus

Possibly a reach but I can't help thinking of Goodfellas in this episode, and that scene particularly. How ultimately a life outside the mafia is for suckers, that ratting others out won't lead to happiness. It's more complex than that of course, but it's wired into Chris' thinking that he'll die a gangster, he says it so many times. I think the family reminded him of that, that he can't see a happy life for himself outside of it.

Mark M

"when was she supposed to learn or know any better?" In s2 when Chris does the least romantic marriage proposal ever (barging in through the door and manhandling her mother to stop her calling the police) Ade's mother is explicitly telling her not to do it, reminding her of how unhappy she is when she's with him and that she cries herself to sleep. Ade of course ignores her and accepts the proposal. Surely from this we can take it that despite growing up connected (related to the Apriles) and among the mob, her mother has tried to steer her away from it and protect her, and knows what lies ahead. Ade chose the life, and is giddy with excitement when Chris dumps a bag of designer shoes in her lap. She revels in the perks that she gets from Chris when he becomes a made man. She didn't kill or rob, but she knew what she was getting into and chose it willingly, despite her mother's guidance. Seeing Chris & Ade is like seeing a prequel version of Tony and Carm, both Ade and Carm know the score and know who they're dealing with.

Abacus

Trivia: They have Adriana's daydream of escaping in the car because they filmed two endings — one where she escapes and one where she is whacked — and it was kept secret until it aired to avoid spoilers. Even Drea de Matteo didn't know what Adriana's fate was. Another detail is that when Chris arrives late at the club, he tells Tony the "highway was jammed with broken heroes on a last-chance power drive". This is a line from classic Bruce Springsteen song "Born To Run", which is sung from the point of view of a man and his woman wanting to make a break for it and get away from the crappy place they live, out onto the highway to find a new life.

Abacus

Regarding the two possibilities for why Chris betrayed Ade: Personally I don't think there's much ambiguity to it, and that the correct reading of the scene is that Chris saw the unbearable dreary ordinariness of the family as his future and he couldn't walk away from the mob. The "not having children" thing was basically put to rest in s4 when it is brought up but then Chris comes to peace with it, and doesn't feature as an issue in s5 (and besides it's only a possibility she would have trouble conceiving, not that she literally can't have children). If that was an issue for him and he was concerned about a future without children, then he would have just dumped her at any time. Besides, if that was how the scene was intended, the family would have been a happy, good looking middle class family which he would see as a desirable life. The parents in the scene are obviously cast as ugly doppelgangers of Chris and Ade, and Chris clearly focuses on the man and relates to him and his unhappiness in his poor, ordinary, family life, being pestered by the kids. I think it's a pretty straightforward reading of the scene that Chris was afraid that he *would* have that guy's life, not that he *wouldn't* have that guy's life. Since the beginning of the show, we've seen the Chris wants to be a notorious gangster and has Hollywood dreams, and explicitly says to Tony that the 'regularness' of life is something he can't handle. When Chris sees that family, he sees that if he runs away with Adriana, he will have to live out his life as Joe Schmo, working some crappy job. No thanks.

Abacus

When it cut from her driving off into the sunset to her being a passenger in Sil's car. I think that was the point she knew what was going on. I don't feel like there's much you can really do at that point. Grab the wheel maybe? What if there's a chance you're wrong and Chris did really go to hospital? I think she knew what was going to happen but didn't want to believe it. The sense of dread that whole scene was a lot

windyMelon

The plan is to release 9 & 10 as close as possible, so I would expect Tuesday

Isaac

In my opinion Chris was going along with the plan to flip right up until he saw that struggling father with his kids. Right then it just dawns on him that he's not going to be a successful writer.. he'd be destined for mediocrity. All he wants from life is a reputation, to feel important and the mob life is the only way he can maintain that facade. We can't know exactly when Adriannah knew that it was over. but my feeling is she knew while she was daydreaming about her alone in her car making a getaway. I think at that point she knew that Chris betrayed her and gave her up to Tony. Would explain why she's sobbing so uncontrollably by then. She's very gullible but even she knew by then I think.

Robert Leeson

completely agree with yall on the fuck the FBI train. They are like a gang/crime family in and of themselves. Definitely a parallel with The Wire

Mahni Alizadeh

@Octavio I think he meant out of the prominent characters that get “whacked”. Tbf he probably doesn’t even remember that guy lol, it was a very minor character and it was more of a dark humor gag than anything.

Gaboxxy

Yeah we can afford that argument for them because nobody sensible would use that argument to suggest that they get away with their crimes or don't face consequences. It's just acknowledging the nature of their upbringing and recognizing at a certain point, the emotional reaction isn't logical and is contradictory. Meadow is already an adult. Why was there not a flip-switched in blaming her for everything and diminished sympathy for her and she's still seen as "innocent"? She directly benefits from and enables Tony's crimes yet people describe her as innocent. But because Tony is more unlikable and his crimes are more severe, he's not an innocent (again, legally he obviously isn't, talking in a more 'nature vs nuture' sense). We know they both are heavily warped by their upbringing. Does severity of actions mean someone has any more control of their upbringing? Of course not. We're seeing that it's the exact thing preventing any forward movement in Tony's therapy. So are they both adults or not? There's just a dissonance in it.

Veya

"You’re the one who said resources were directed towards anti-terrorism; now you’re saying they were limited on resources." These are not mutually exclusive. Why would you take it to mean all resources are directed towards anti-terrorism? They obviously would have some resources left for local operations.

Veya

I don’t actually think Tony believes in heaven.. Despite being a “strict catholic” (which he’s not), I think he sincerely told Paulie”none of this shit means goddamn thing!”

Octavio

So was that waiter in S5E1

Octavio

You’re the one who said resources were directed towards anti-terrorism; now you’re saying they were limited on resources. Still, they fucked up like they always have before, 9/11 withstanding. I don’t believe Adriana was a terrorist, despite her connection to Matush.

Octavio

Well melt it down man. Look, I told you $15!

Octavio

@Eric A. She was a hooah. B. She hit him first.

Gaboxxy

Fair enough I can’t disagree with much of that. It just so happens Adriana, more so Tony and Christopher’s inability to know better has a direct negative impact on other people’s lives. So can you really afford them the argument “well their childhood and they don’t know any better” as they actively benefit from the destruction of other people’s lives.

Edward. M

Why would they not have resources for informants? Having less resources doesn't mean having no resources. I'm talking having less physical bodies to follow literally everyone around because a lot would be assigned to anti-terrorism division, stuff like that. It absolutely is arguable because we know the surrounding context and we know they were emboldened by the information on wiretaps that corroborated with Chris being unhappy with Tony.

Veya

Honestly, Tony is even more repulsive on my second watch with you girls. Undoubtedly the complex and iconic character everyone thinks he is and I am fascinated by him but God is he hard to stomach

bondbond53

It can be for an adult in her late 20s because when was she supposed to learn or know any better? Physical age is just physical age and you don't just magically gain perspective once you hit an arbitrary age. You have to be fortunate enough to go through the right experiences with your brain wired correctly (or in Tony's case, not be so poisoned by his upbringing) to develop properly from it. I said the same for Tony somewhere in early season 5 and I'd say the same for his kids when they grow up (Meadow is technically an adult already). We just assign more blame based on practical legality and arbitrary emotional feelings but the logic doesn't hold up from a moral or psychological standpoint.

Veya

It's funny going back and rewatching your season 1 reactions to the sopranos, it's almost game of thrones level of being sweet summer children. You girls seem so joyful and now your prepared for the worst because of all the f'd up shit you've seen up to this point.

Nicholas

She turned into a full blown conspiracy nut maga dick that hates most people.

Eric

I’ve never seen a reactor more desperate to demonise a character than Milena with Christopher. Well deserved obviously. Throughout the discussion, it was a Christopher hate fest for her. You can almost see her wear down Lola through that 10 20 minute discussion on Chris and Adriana, Lola tries to add a balanced and fair take on it, she’s like nah fuck him he’s a disgrace. And every time Adriana is brought into the picture, “she was a saint”

Edward. M

"I think that's also in part why Tony seems so affected by her death in the ending of the episode" Yes this was pretty much implied by the same type of setting and Carmela being by his side at that moment and the camera work (some lingering shots of him looking up at the trees).

Veya

"Long Term Parking" is a great title because beyond the reference to the parking spot, it's highlighting the long term elements of multiple things in the episode: Adriana's fate obviously but also where her soul is probably headed (camera going up at the end of her death scene) where Tony's soul is likely headed (final scene begins with same type of camera work as Adriana's, but going down instead), where Chris's soul is headed (directly spoken by him) and Tony and Carmela's marriage (where she chooses to double down on material things and simply asks him to be more discreet). Adriana's day dream of her driving alone on the highway and showing us different lanes and exit signs can be seen as an echo of the opening sequence of Tony driving along the highway and presumably driving past different exits and he always ends up at his house. A common through-line of the show is showing us chances for these people who escape or change and a lot of the times they walk right up the edge and then back down. Her death is more tragic because she had less agency. Chris chose not to get off this episode. And Tony has repeatedly ignored all signs to change or puts the bare minimum effort.

Veya

The cardinal mistake most people make is that they confuse naivety and stupidity for innocence, we afford that luxury to children, that’s not how it works for an adult in her late 20s.

Edward. M

Season 4 took place after 9/11, so if they were so resource strapped why did they recruit Adriana? The FBI were shit at their job in this show; I don’t even think it’s arguable

Octavio

How did she change?

Octavio

The girl that Ralphie killed was also 100% innocent. She did nothing to deserve her fate.

Eric

I think Milena was out of town, she left right before ep 9 came out and was out for a week. Might get a double drop this week if we're lucky.

Eric

It's funny how beloved she was considering how she changed a decade later.

Eric

It's not that they're horrible, what Adriana gave them was corroborated by wiretaps so it seemed very solid. But after 9/11, resources in the FBI were directed towards anti-terrorism so they had just less to monitor everything. They were just flat-out callous. Adriana provided zero value if she couldn't turn Chris. She isn't high enough to ever hear important conversations and we know Tony and crew sweep for bugs regularly so a bug in club isn't effective. So they let her go off alone to tell Chris, either he agrees and becomes an informant, or she dies which obviously means Chris decided against it. There was basically zero incentive to protect her. She got squeezed between both sides.

Veya

This is a massively heavy episode, but Chris thinking that this situation would be a great opportunity to write his memoirs is too funny.

Mike

That’s why they shouldn’t have any understanding or approval of what the FBI did. As they said, all their informants end up dead

Octavio

Marcus Cato

Definitely great reactive acting; his facial expression showing building rage rivals Pacino in II

Octavio

@BND Even if that was the case, that doesn't mean the FBI had the right to basically toy with their life. She deserved to go to jail for possession of heroin? Then charge her and make her do the time. That's what she deserves, not being put on an impossible situation so you can get the "real" bad guys when's she's not even a criminal herself or involved with the affairs of the mob. Your personal moral judgement of her, valid or not, it's irrelevant regarding the point that the FBI acted in an unethical and scummy manner under bullshit pretenses.

Gaboxxy

Been wondering the same.

Jeff I.

when is the next severance reaction coming out

Pratham Dusad

Oh yeah they completely suck at their jobs, I can agree with that.

BND

You have to admit they’re pretty fucking horrible at their job. It would be one thing if they ruined Ade’s life and actually got results. Instead, they went after the fiancée of a mobster, spent resources and time on her, then got her killed with no information gained or evidence obtained. What they did was fucked up; even the mafia in this show didn’t go after girlfriends and wives. The FBI on the other hand did and got no results, then just brushed it off and moved on once they knew Adriana was a goner.

Octavio

lol, thought I knew all the malapropisms on this show, never realized Tony produced another one with his pronunciation of Hermes as “Her-Mees”. Honestly didn’t know what he was referring to and just brushed it off, until seeing L&M laughing at his pronunciation. Learn something new every time

Octavio

Sure, she's not directly involved in murdering people but she's still aware of the people she's involved with and she knows what happens in that world. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand people being sympathetic towards her, she was a very sweet and naive person but she's still involved and she's still benefiting from the suffering of others. So all things considered I have very little sympathy towards her and how things ended up for her. Would I have wished a better ending for her, sure, but it is what it is.

BND

That scene was heavily inspired (imo) by two other great scenes from Goodfellas and Godfather II, and it honestly holds up compared to them.

Gaboxxy

Dude, not even in real life the FBI would target mobster's partners, they were considered civilians. What they did was fucked up and the show clearly doesn't portray them favorably. Not only that, the initial charges against her were bullshit and they knew it, which is why they they made sure Ade never saw any lawyer. Even what she did in this episode would definitely not put her 20 years in prison as Lola accurately pointed out, she was being manipulated throughout. She wasn't a mobster, she wasn't "part of the world", she was simply the girlfriend of a mobster and found herself at the wrong spot at the wrong time. There's simply no way around it, the FBI acted in an extremely unethical way to say the least. She definitely didn't deserve to be put at that type of risk by the authorities.

Gaboxxy

Adriana did not have the same level of self-reflection as Carmela or Meadow. She also is a different type of informant than say, Pussy or Ray in that she isn't actually part of the mob and has murdered people. So I think (and pretty most of the writers and David Chase) still views her as drastically different than all of the other characters. I wouldn't be as comfortable saying that she reaped what she sowed as much as Tony or Christopher or even Carmela. She's just too naive and clueless. And yeah the FBI's job isn't to save her, and she wasn't valuable to them if she can't turn Chris. But they were more callous and spiteful than they needed to be.

Veya

both Chris and Ade's actors won an Emmy for this episode, 100% deserved imo. Michael Imperioli's acting during the scene in which Ade confesses is some of my favourite acting in any tv show or movie, period

castration_rite

Drea De Matteo (Adriana) and Michael Imperioli (Christopher) both won an Emmy for this episode. Amazing performances by both of them.

enchantertim

I know they're angry at how the FBI treated Adrianna but they have to understand that the FBI's job isn't to save her, their job is to take down the mob. From their POV Adriana is part of that world and that makes her an accessory, sure she might be a sweet and caring person but she's still involved in illegal activities. I liked Adrianna too but let's not pretend like she didn't choose this life. You reap what you sow and there are consequences for being a part of that world. Personally, I don't have a problem with law enforcement using dirty tactics to take down these criminals, same as I didn't have a problem with them doing so in The Wire. Sometimes you have to get dirty if you want to clean up the trash.

BND

Ooooooooh this episode is such a heavy hit. People argue to this day why -- exactly -- Chris chose to inform Tony instead of accepting the offer of testifying for the FBI. He really does resent Tony at this point, and he hates almost everybody else he works with, so why not throw it all in? You both actually touched on the two most commonly proposed ideas: That he saw how miserable the family was and didn't want to have that miserable 'normal' life, or that he realized he still wants kids and can't have them with Adriana. I can't say which one is true. This is one area without one definite answer, it's all open for interpretation. Adriana was daydreaming about running away on her own as Silvio was driving her to her execution. The highway she pictured herself driving on is one that leads out of NJ without any stops. So she saw that she had an opportunity to get away....but she didn't see it until she was already in the car with Silvio. And by then it was already too late. A "spec house" specifically is a house that is built fully by a construction company as ready-to-sell before they begin looking for a buyer. So this is Carmela trying to jump-start running a real estate and home selling business.

JBK405

I disagree. No matter what, he was going to see something that would change his mind; he couldn’t leave the mob life behind.

Octavio

Yup, and the camera work undermines this too. At the end of the scene where Adrianna was shot, the POV of the camera moves up. And in the final scene when we see Tony and Carmela at the spec house, it starts from the top of the trees and moves downward.

Veya

Chris was actually going to leave with her. The family he saw changed his mind because they were poor and practically living out of their car, and looked miserable. He was scared that this would end up being his life if he went on the run with her.

Clause

The after the episode discussion followed almost exactly my train of thought after seeing the episode for the first time. I watched this live when it aired, and my wife and I had almost the same exact conversation. What an episode.

BobJ

David Chase, the creator of the show, said that Adriana is the only "innocent" character, in the sense that pretty much every other character that dies in the series deserves it at least a little bit, but Adriana didn't deserve her faith in the slightest. She genuinely was a sweet woman that got caught in the crossfire due to the life her boyfriend chose. She was unlucky, and her only sin was being dumb and naive. I think that's also in part why Tony seems so affected by her death in the ending of the episode (originally the shot of the woods would pan out directly from the scene in which Ade gets killed to the last scene with Tony and Carmella, which would've been good to make it clear he was thinking about her). With any other character he has killed or ordered to kill he can rationalize it as them being part of the life and accepting the stakes, but that was not the case with Adriana, she was an innocent civilian killed strictly to cover their own asses, despite her being dear to him and the rest of the crew.

Gaboxxy

i'll see you up there. Last word Tony said to Adrianna, Tony stil thinking he's going to heaven.

Rok Zupan

Always hated this episode. So good, and so exhausting. Made me want to take a break from the show when I first watched it.

AE

My favorite episode of the show.

Tyler Jackson

Oh man I’ve waited for this. Poor Adriana

Elijah Glory

any idea when you’re dropping severance?

Light Yagami

Man.. I’m not reading for this show to end. I don’t know if the girls will put a poll after this show or they already decided but whoever show is next has some big shoes to fill.

Jack SV

What an episode. What a character. What an actress!

Damien Fenton

Immediately clicked I haven’t been this excited for a post episode discussion ever

Michael Blake