The Sopranos 3x04 Reaction
Added 2024-11-24 23:42:55 +0000 UTC
Comments
Little late commenting as I only got to watch today. This is my first time watching sopranos alongside the reaction. I think this is the first episode of anything I’ve seen in a long time where I just had to sit there after the episode ended and just take everything in. Just the simplicity yet enormity of that last line too. “No.”
My Toasty Toast
2024-11-27 02:12:54 +0000 UTCThat’s a fair analysis! I disagree with the conclusion on Melfi, putting her faith in a higher power at the end however, as that was her first port of call. I think it’s very important that she did everything right and by the book, and the ‘higher power’ that is the justice system failed her so spectacularly. By the end, her only true recourse and chance at justice would be the corrupting path of entering Tony’s world. I would say her rejection of this is keeping her morality and her path within her own hands, and this is a very personal victory, despite the bitterness of never getting her revenge/justice as a result. With Janice, I do believe there is a moment of genuine self-reflection with her actions, however within the same minute, she has decided she will ask God to forgive Svetlana for her actions, and her own misdeeds appear to have fallen to the wayside of her concerns. This sudden jump to religion becomes a crutch immediately. I don’t see that as a real ‘come-to-Jesus’ moment… despite her literally coming to Jesus lol
Darrach
2024-11-26 14:44:41 +0000 UTCI have a slightly different take on how Janice and Melfi deal with their attacks. I wouldn't really agree that Janice doesn't account for her own actions — while she does seem to blame Svetlana for the situation arising, Janice unusually takes a cold hard look at herself and admits that she has acted badly, realising that stealing someone's prosthetic leg is a new low for her. She then gives herself over to a higher power (God, nicely seeded when the Russian tells her to repent). I think "the easy route" (in the sense that it's more her normal track of behaviour) would have been for her to accept no fault and get the other higher power (Tony) to take revenge on her behalf. (Tony says he will take revenge anyway, but that's his decision, not hers.) Melfi also allows a higher power (government/police/"social compact") to take control, and gives up the idea of taking action herself (by enlisting Tony). Like God, Government moves in mysterious ways — it does what it does (or doesn't in this case), and she goes along with it. It's "civilisation", come what may, and as much as people can applaud her moral stand, it's a model in which she gives over her agency to the higher power. I'd say Janice submitting to God is thematically similar. Anyway, $4 a pound.
Abacus
2024-11-26 07:02:53 +0000 UTCHardest one to rewatch for me. The rape scene lasts a minute but man does it feel like 20. It’s considered to be one of the most brutal and realistic depictions in television. Harsh dark lighting, guttural screaming, filmed through the black bars of the stairwell. It all adds together for an extremely visceral, but also non-gratuitous depiction of the act. No romanticisation of any kind. John Sacrimoni, known as Johnny Sack most of the time, has been in the show since season 1, and is a friend of Tony’s from a New York family. He played mediator during Junior and Hesh’s disagreement, was at the poker game in S2, was present at Juniors inauguration as boss etc. in the S1 finale, when the FBI attempts to persuade Junior to rat on Tony, they mention the person they really want to get is Johnny Sack. His boss, Carmine Luppertazzi, was in the previous episode discussing Tony’s panic attacks. The final scene is so good. The temptation for her to ‘sic’ Tony on her rapist is understandable to anyone. For her to unambiguously state “No” is her ‘moment of truth’ so to speak. David Chase has given his thoughts on this moment: “If you’re raised on a steady diet of Hollywood movies and network television, you start to think, ‘Obviously there’s going to be some moral accounting here.’ That’s not the way the world works. It all comes down to why you’re watching. If all you want to see is big Tony Soprano take that guy’s head and bang it against the wall like a cantaloupe…The point is Melfi, despite pain and suffering, made her moral, ethical choice and we should applaud her for it. That’s the story.“ There’s also a comparison to be made between Janice and Melfi, who both have bruised up faces this episode, and respond in the opposite way from one another. Janice decides that she is giving herself over to God instead of any real accounting for her own actions on why she is like this: the easy route, so to speak. Melfi meanwhile takes responsibility for herself and her morality, by choosing not to use her own patient as a tool for revenge: the hard route.
Darrach
2024-11-25 19:17:12 +0000 UTCPutting aside revenge or just trying to rebalance the world when it seems so evil, Richard is pathetic and dumb because he just takes on the assumption he'd get caught for it. I mean, after all the "Employee of the Month" got away with it. We've already seen many times in which justice or injustice go unreconcilled, which is probably why I have this feeling that Richard is pathetic. I admire Melfi's character, and Lorraine Bracco so much. She shows so many colors of strength in dark times. And I just feel sorry for Janice, she's has absolutley nothing going for her. They say that kids who are given chores as they grow up have more confidence and self-efficacy, the later of which Janice has absolutley NONE of, and deep down no one really likes her because of it. Being a spoiled brat and an idiot are a rough combo.
Ben G
2024-11-25 10:00:23 +0000 UTCYes agree on the handling of threads stuff. The Janice-Svetlana leg saga is my fav mini-storyline, it's so fun. Nice touch that the "wooden pin" is being stored in a bowling alley, typical Chase hidden pun humour. Svetlana is a great foil for Janice as they are exact opposites — Janice is a manipulative liar, avoids working, doesn't really care for her mother, and scams disability benefits for exaggerated/fake conditions, while Svetlana is very honest and straight talking, hard working, cares for Livia, and is severely disabled but without complaint.
Abacus
2024-11-25 09:59:13 +0000 UTCVery tough episode to watch. Great commentary though and a lot of great points. The final scene is very powerful. I love the way Melfi says "No" in this defiant tone, like "no I won't go down this path". This episode does feel like a turning point for how dark and violent the show is willing to be, while also refusing to provide the cheap but satisfying thrill of Tony as dark avenger. I also really liked the moment with Tony and Chris, even though it's not the focus of the episode. Seeing him be vulnerable and almost saying that he wishes Tony had shielded him from the mafia. Not just from the nightmares, but also from being used by Tony. Makes a fitting contrast to last episode where Jackie is talking about how Chris is only successful because he's Tony's favourite.
Mark M
2024-11-25 09:11:43 +0000 UTCYeah that parallel is clear, but what's well done about it is that it's not a specific thread that started in this particular episode, her conflict with Svetlana was established two episodes ago and Chase decided to make this episode more cohesive with it, really mixing episodic and sequential. Part of what makes the show very unpredictable is they'll either pay off something from very long ago (like the knight in white satin armor being mentioned all the way back in college then used in near the end of the second season) or threads like this can be used at any point of the season where as in more conventional shows, it'll generally be built up more during the season or perhaps play out towards the end of it.
Veya
2024-11-25 08:45:16 +0000 UTCJanice is used cleverly in this episode to highlight what's happening in the main Melfi storyline. Janice is violated when the men break through her locked door ("forced entry", symbolic of the rape) and both Melfi and Janice receive a square punch to the face. When she's recovering in hospital, Tony states that he will have to take revenge on the Russians on her behalf, as he is her de facto protector — which is a small parallel to what would happen if Melfi told him about Rossi.
Abacus
2024-11-25 08:07:45 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favourite episodes of the show and one I skipped on every rewatch except for your reaction. Good news is it’s probably the hardest episode of the show to watch.
the chosen one
2024-11-25 05:41:16 +0000 UTCI've seen that line of argument before about preventing another victim. In addition to what you're saying, the issue is also she doesn't know with 100% certainty that it's going to happen again, even if there's assumptions otherwise, preemptive justice is always going to set a very dangerous precedent. It directly feeds into the line of thinking and rationalizations that mobsters would tend to use, which in fact, Tony DOES use for the pedophile coach all the way back in season 1, which Melfi talked him out of killing. Obviously different circumstances between that case and this one but as you said, there are too many other moral variables beyond the pure utilitarian viewpoint that those people are espousing. Her own health, mental well being, and also, not completely tanking her relationship and moral authority over Tony.
Veya
2024-11-25 05:34:08 +0000 UTCIt's not the same but I always found the scene of the Rottweiler attacking Rossi satisfying in its own way, especially since it's meant to be Tony.
IanJ
2024-11-25 05:16:57 +0000 UTCThis is the few Sopranos episode about which David Chase has publicized an unambiguous opinion, when he told the world in no uncertain terms that Melfi should be applauded for refusing to take the easy route of vengeance. This is a controversial decision among the fanbase, where some people believed that Melfi should've told Tony about the rapist so that she can prevent him from committing that act to another woman. To me that would be victim blaming since the police are the ones who bungled the case, not Melfi, so if anything the fault is on them. She did her part within the moral and legal boundaries, and by not taking the route of vengeance she can focus on her own healing. What a powerful ending to the episode. In the review that you girls brought up the scene where the guys are joking about Ginny Sack's body and it being a showcase about the subtle objectification of women that can led to them being assaulted. Rewatching this episode, I noticed more thematic stuff like that. Some examples are the foreshadowing of the incident with the way Richard is holding a knife when he's talking to Melfi, and the way some rapists are not punished and even rewarded in society with Jesus Rossi being the employee of the month. On the other part of the story we have Johnny Sacrimoni moving in to Jersey. We've seen him here and there before in the show as an emissary of the New York family to the Jersey family. Something to note here is that in the housewarming party, they're playing Swing Revival music. A funny little showcase about the mob staying in the 20th century while the 21st century has arrived.
IanJ
2024-11-25 05:06:11 +0000 UTCi've seen a number of rape scenes in media (credits to my tendency to watch or read the most shocking things i can find) and imo this episode is a contender for the best executed one. quite a few that i've watched either feel pointless and gratuitous without serving the story, or feel uncomfortably sexualised which is just tasteless. this episode uses the rape scene in a thematically poignant way; Melfi deciding not to use Tony for revenge is an incredibly powerful moment and serves the themes of the show extremely well, and i personally don't think it'd hit nearly as hard if she was, say, burgled. the portrayal itself is brutal but that's the reality of this sorta thing. to quote a friend of mine who was a victim of SA herself: "If you're made uncomfortable by it, imagine how we must have felt when we actually experienced it". i'm pretty desensitized myself and have seen things that far exceed anything in The Sopranos in terms of how graphic they are, but the realism of the scene in this episode for me makes it more disturbing than most of what i've seen elsewhere, even in the most cursed, deranged shock media that i don't mention to people by name unless asked. i still haven't rewatched it myself. also iirc filming that scene made the guy who played Jesus Rossi start crying, and Melfi's actor actually comforted and encouraged him herself. in real life, he is (was?) a fireman. excited for the next couple episodes, they're personal favourites of mine.
castration_rite
2024-11-25 03:01:53 +0000 UTCAlso Janice seems like a deliberate contrast to Tony. She tries to wield the power that Livia wielded, the only one they could, which is verbal manipulation and self-victimization but she's clearly so bad at it. Tony on the other hand, is essentially a more successful, if less brutal version of his father. There's a parallel between her and some of the younger characters on the show that are less effective than the older generation and goes through growing pains in different ways, like Chris and AJ.
Veya
2024-11-25 02:42:58 +0000 UTCThis episode was basically a parable and an improved version of the one in season 1 with the pedo coach. It's about the most heavy-handed episode the show has done, especially after the previous more nuanced episode (which wasn't just about the empathy but featured a lot of cracks and accretion in the ideas being put forth). For this episode though, particularly the middle portion you can feel such a heavy hand in the writing guiding everything to the ending scene, but overall it's so potent and powerful that it still got a lot of well deserved acclaim. Melfi is one of the bravest characters and the one character in the show that isn't in Tony's debt. There's also historical context for the violence of the rape scene, and the violence of the show in general. Pretty much a broken record at this point, but this show is much older and did a lot of things first (and what it didn't do first, it expanded to new heights). Game of thrones was brought up and I agree with the gratuitous and unnecessary nature of the violence, but the violence on this show was not portrayed on network TV at the time (pretty much only on oz which predated it a bit). This was before the era of high volume of shows on cable and the streaming era. It was so raw and unsanitized compared to stuff you can portray on network TV at the time. A lot of shows that were influenced by this show took some wrong lessons from it, one of which is the portrayal of graphic violence but without substance accompanying it and being more excessive with it.
Veya
2024-11-25 02:35:41 +0000 UTCAhh yes it's this episode. When this show first won the poll, I had left a comment saying I didn't know if you ladies would enjoy this show and this episode was the one episode that was on my mind when I commented that. I'm glad to know that so far you ladies have enjoyed it, I just remembered that for me, I literally had to stop watching this show for a minute after I got to this episode and it took me months to finally get back to the show because it was this episode that made me realize that the violence toward women in this show was just not going to ease up. Don't get me wrong this is still one of the best shows out there but that particular aspect of this show really drained me while I was watching, and I just didn't want to see that happen with you ladies as well. As usual you ladies approached this episode and the discussion afterward with the utmost care. This and everything surrounding Christopher and Adrianna took a toll on me while I watched this show and while I understand what the writers are trying to show/say, let's just say that by this point, at least for me, it became harder and harder to hit play on the next episode, but overall I was glad that I finished this show and can only hope the same goes for you ladies.
Nyeisha Melvina Clark
2024-11-25 01:42:14 +0000 UTCYeah, this is not an Enjoyable episode. Even those who heap all the praise on it for its portrayal and message acknowledge that it is rough to watch. It's probably the single most controversial episode of the series, because some people think it captured the situation perfectly and told a great story, while others find its focus unnecessary and painful to experience. Johnny Sack is part of the Lupertazzi crime family, a New York organization. You met Carmine Lupertazzi, the Boss of the family, last episode. Johnny Sack has previously been portrayed as a friend of Tony's and a good business partner. Back in the first season he even helped Tony manipulate Junior when they were trying to get him to let Hesh off with less back money owed. But there's a big difference between having a business partner in a different city, and having a potential competitor on your own turf. Despite being an 'old friend', as soon as Johnny is moving to New Jersey everybody knows that this is going to lead to some sort of conflict with Tony and the Soprano family. One more way that the supposed friendships and family bonds mean nothing between these people. The behavioural psychotherapy that Dr. Melfi discussed is the type of therapy which is -- in theory -- supposed to make somebody a 'better person'. Unlike the therapy that Melfi herself practices, which is solely about her patient's own mental health, it is intended to actually change the patient's behavior. Obviously it's not as simple as just "This therapy makes you stop being evil", but it at least tries to work on how the patient interacts with the surrounding world. One thing I always notice in this episode, which builds on something we previously saw in season two, but Christopher is actually very complimentary and supportive of the low-level people who work for him. Especially when it comes to bathroom-problems during the job. When Sean Gismonte kept needing to go to the bathroom while they robbed those safes, Chris kept saying that it was normal and even told stories about how even made men had the same problems when they first started out. Now he talks about how Jackie Aprile Jr. pissing himself in the car, but not driving off or messing up, shows that he can really handle himself. It's so fascinating that despite being so violent and unstable in general, in this area he's understanding and generous.
JBK405
2024-11-25 01:30:33 +0000 UTCDidn’t Tony say their father never tried talking to them and that the belt was his favorite child development tool?
space colon
2024-11-25 01:22:37 +0000 UTCWhile I agree art can always elevate its subject matter (how a film/TV show is about something is more important than what it’s about) I think rape might be the most difficult subject to deal with in a way that doesn’t feel exploitative, something I think Game of Thrones was guilty of a couple of times. The Sopranos probably comes closest to pulling it off of anything I’ve seen, due in large part to Bracco’s incredible acting, keeping the focus on her character and the decision Melfi makes at the end. Telling Tony what happened would’ve made a lot of sense, and it’s what the audience is begging for every time. But her decision not to is so much more interesting. Did she not tell him because she believes vigilante justice is wrong? Because she would then become indebted to probably the worst person to owe anything to? Because she wouldn’t be able to do her job as a doctor afterwards? Because she’s afraid of Tony still? Some combination of all the above?
John Collins
2024-11-25 01:22:00 +0000 UTCYeah, like I said, I know it's possible in real life. But for a show that does a lot of shading of real life moments and circumstances, this part felt particularly...half baked? I'm talking the actual execution of the scene itself not the idea that the person could get off legally. I know David Chase HATES procedural stuff. It's like the Anti-Wire where that show lives and breathes procedural detail. It's why he opted for Tony's subconscious to trap him in dreams until he confronted the truth about Pussy instead of a typical cat and mouse plot.
Veya
2024-11-25 01:19:22 +0000 UTCI agree with everything you said but Janice's dad didn't beat her? What?
Nicholas
2024-11-25 01:14:57 +0000 UTCI'm from Croatia and have the same subtitle issues with certain shows. I tried watching The Sympathizer, which is half English and half Vietnamese. The English CC subtitles would only subtitle Vietnamese, while regular English subs would only subtitle the English parts. But you couldn't use English subs for both languages lmao. So I just stopped watching it cause it was annoying switching between (and I never use Croatian subtitles). I emailed them about it and they said they're aware of the issue but that was months ago.
Axel
2024-11-25 01:04:12 +0000 UTCA good lawyer would have gotten him out of that pretty easily anyway. Considering the speed of the attack and Melfi's statement indicating that she might not have gotten a good look at him (telling the police he was Puerto-Rican), there's enough that a lawyer could use to put doubt in the mind of the jury and make them find him not guilty. Rape convictions are hard to get at the best of times, let alone when there's no evidence beyond being identified by the victim. That's assuming he gets a good lawyer though. There have been many cases in real life where victims identified someone who wasn't their attacker, but they didn't get a proper defence in court, or the jury were biased against them for some other reason (black or homeless, usually), and they got locked up anyway.
Rynsen
2024-11-25 01:04:01 +0000 UTCLorraine Braco usually plays loud and abrasive characters, she was so fearless and vulnerable this episode
space colon
2024-11-25 00:53:51 +0000 UTCThe bar is incredibly low for non-problematic depictions of rape and sexual assault in TV and film. 9/10 times the depiction is unnecessary for the story, the victim is often sexualized or the situation as a whole is trivialized and used as a cheap tool by the writers to generate drama. At the very worst sexual violence against women is portrayed as a burden for the man who loves her more than a trauma for her This episode, and this season as a whole, do a great job highlighting the helplessness and lack of agency most of the female characters face in a male dominant chauvinist world It’s gross how real Melfi’s ex-husband’s behavior felt, hated every time Richard opened his mouth Janice’s assualt leaves her hospitalized, beaten just like her dad beat her and just like Richie. She continues to do things that invite the same abuse she’s spent her whole life trying to escape. She has no foundation for normalcy and no real support system so I think it makes total sense that she’d continue to cling to religion. This contrasts Melfi who tries to cling to her belief in psychiatry and society as a whole, Melfi is tortured by her hopeful worldview while Janice tunes everything out
space colon
2024-11-25 00:45:53 +0000 UTCThe case being dropped was pretty flimsy and clumsy. It seemed like they kind of gave up in the middle of a more effective explanation. Of course stuff like that does happen in real life, but within the framework of the episode, the show's dislike of writing procedural elements really shows itself here lol. This is one of the most acclaimed episodes where the writing wasn't the best, but was made better by the acting, message and the final scene.
Veya
2024-11-25 00:18:15 +0000 UTCThe case being dropped because of a chain of custody issue even though Melfi could ID him was a bit of a stretch but I can understand the writers needed to use some dramatic license shortcuts to fit everything into a 50 minute episode. However, it does touch on the disturbing real life fact that a significant amount of reported rapes are never prosecuted.
Damien Fenton
2024-11-25 00:02:06 +0000 UTCOne of the heaviest episodes of this show. Lorraine Bracco’s acting is just incredible. Seeing Tony’s genuine care towards Melfi shows a different side of his character. As satisfying as it would have been for Tony to get revenge, I think Melfi 100% made the right decision.
LegacyFilms
2024-11-24 23:58:35 +0000 UTCObviously an incredibly tough episode to watch, and that scene hits you like a ton of bricks. But it is also incredibly well written and acted, especially by Bracco. I also really appreciate Gandolfini's acting in the final moment too. Tony instinctively knows that there is more to her story than just a car crash. Probably being around crime his entire life has given him a sixth sense for that kind of thing. I think it is also notable that although Tony is clearly a murderous thug who has done, and will continue to do, horrible things, he shows genuine concern for Melfi. The final decision by Melfi was absolutely the correct choice for the character but seeing Tony avenging Melfi would have been very satisfying for the viewers.
Damien Fenton
2024-11-24 23:51:58 +0000 UTCI absolutely love your Reaction to this Show. Not to put any other Reactors down but you 2 are the only Channel where I am sure the you both understand and analyze every aspect of what the show tells us. Sometimes when they do it obvious but even more when it’s not so obvious. Keep up the good work and I hope you both are well
Marcel Plambeck
2024-11-24 23:48:51 +0000 UTC
