Supernatural - "Season 8 Wrap Up" Review
Added 2021-11-25 04:04:09 +0000 UTC
Comments
I think season 9 is very good. I do agree with the rest of your comment, however.
JoDaNa81
2021-12-17 18:54:09 +0000 UTCAmen to that
Hasnaa
2021-12-01 14:57:37 +0000 UTCHehe i love that description for the season, accurate
Hasnaa
2021-12-01 14:53:32 +0000 UTCThe writers and the actors have confirmed the platonic soulmates is in reference to Sam and Dean. There have been plenty of discussions regarding this and the topic has been brought up in many J2 panels. No one thinks much of it because platonic soulmates isn't that big of a deal except within certain factions of shippers. Much of S5 revolved around that destiny. Ash called their heaven "Winchesterland", and their memories were being messed with by Zachariah to foment discord between Sam and Dean...because that was part of their design to get them to want to say yes and fight each other. This was also confirmed. I know you're not a fan of J2 panels, but a lot of the confusion has already been cleared up on that piece of writing. I'd love to see Shelley rewatch it as well...and yes, she interpreted it the way most of us do.
Vel
2021-12-01 09:48:29 +0000 UTCI haven't actually made an opinion on how I feel about the Dabb era, except to comment and differentiate that Carver-Dabb has gone more into character focussed stories than the Kripke-Gamble era. I believe there's a certain type of viewers that appreciate the Carver-Dabb era due to their focus on character-driven stories, more than Kripke-Gamble which, as I had said, focuses more on plot-driven stories, which eventually doesn't tell us much about their characters other than the big four main players. As an example, Azazel is a very good villain, but we don't know his motivations why he is still going for 6-month old babies in S1 when he already has his special children in line, even though he has a 2-seasons arc. Since Shelley has voiced her opinion that she also appreciates character-driven stories, that is why I said she might like the later seasons too. This is mainly due to reasons that I have said above, in regards to characters' motivations and whatnot, about how I appreciate Carver-Dabb's tendencies to go more into the whys and wherefores. Which can bring out the nuances in their storytelling. But whether we are into those or not, is up to us to decide. How anybody will like that era is up to an individual viewing experience and I am not going to presume to know about it.
rose mnor
2021-11-28 07:39:51 +0000 UTCIdk if they ever clarify if that means they haven’t talked in all that time, but that’s a valid interpretation. It’s interesting when you look back at What Is and What Should Never Be, too. Sam and Dean both exist in that world and live apart, but they aren’t close at all and barely ever talk. So it again reinforces Dean’s belief that if they aren’t together all the time, they won’t have any kind of meaningful relationship with one another. It’s so sad bc Dean sees any attempt at creating a healthy distance as a form of abandonment…like once someone leaves him, they won’t ever come back. Ugh it breaks my heart for him. And for Sam, honestly, bc he deserves to be able to have a normal life, but Dean’s reaction makes him feel so guilty for wanting that. THEY BOTH NEED THERAPY SO BAD😭
Kristin Dorner
2021-11-28 00:05:33 +0000 UTCAmazing season wrap up as always!! I totally sucked at guessing the order of your top 5😂 Sam and Dean’s relationship has always been so complex that I, to this day, still don’t have a set in stone opinion on it. I completely respect your opinion of them as platonic soulmates, but I have never seen them as that. To me they are a mixture of brothers in arms and almost a father/son dynamic. In terms of them being toxicly co-dependent, up to this point I think that Dean is more that way than Sam. Dean has had so much trauma and hasn’t processed ANY of it and it totally affects his perception of what a healthy family relationship should be. At this point Sam wants to be able to move on, but Dean sees that as almost a personal attack. He has such a black or white view of either we have to be together 24/7 or you want to completely cut yourself off from the other person. Even as far back as the pilot when Dean goes to get Sam from Stanford he says, “I’m almost two years, I’ve never bothered you, never asked you for a thing”.
Kristin Dorner
2021-11-27 23:57:19 +0000 UTCAgreed. Watching for the first time in 2020, those things hadn't aged well and had to be taken in temporal context. Luckily for me, most things had, so I kept watching... and watching... and, ya know... rewatching. 😜Thanks, @Kristin Dorner
SKK
2021-11-27 23:18:52 +0000 UTCLove everything you’re saying here and I agree with a lot of it. Personally, I think that at the time this show started (2005) shows were still throwing in jabs about their hyper-masculine character being/acting gay just trying to be funny. So I definitely don’t think that they were trying to break any particular ground there at the time. However, over time as society has progressed in terms of representation and visibility, a person watching the show for the first time won’t necessarily take those lines/characteristics as jokes. It makes me so curious to see what newcomers to the show will have to say over the next 5-10-15 years! As for me, a shipper, I think that is what makes Destiel such a special thing…that it was completely unintentional. I mean Cas wasn’t even supposed to be there for more than a handful of episodes but the intense chemistry was just so THERE. I’m only 36, but I’ve never seen anything like it.
Kristin Dorner
2021-11-27 22:55:24 +0000 UTCSo I'm the opposite, in which I prefer the second half of this season more than the first (an episode like Bitten being part of that half really solidifies it too. lol). Benny is not a favorite of mine, but I didn't mind Amelia. In fact, I was intrigued by the stuff with her and Sam. Still, I most definitely prefer the trials vs a lot of the stuff from the first half. When they get into the Biblical arc, that's what really makes the show these days (not that I'm religious or Christian, I just like the mythology the way I would Greek or Norse). And that stuff is heavy in the back half. Season 9 will be interesting to watch with you. I remember hating it mostly when I was watching it live back then, but I liked it better on a future rewatch. Maybe this'll be the deciding factor of the age old question of "Is season 9 good?" 😅
ConsciousChronicle143
2021-11-27 20:28:11 +0000 UTCWell, most of the fandom has a virulent reaction to Dabb as show runner. Myself included. Not saying that all his seasons are terrible (S14 is a favorite of mine), but aspects of the show and his treatment of a certain actor, are well known. <p></p> <p>As a writer, though, he hit it out of the park alot of the time.</p>
Amye Sabin
2021-11-27 17:07:45 +0000 UTCWhat an amazing season warp up. Everything our boys have done this season. Severe co-dependency. Sam's jealousy and his own feelings of inadequacy. Destiel shippers feeling pretty good and saving the world just as a bonus. Great wrap up I am so excited for you to get to Sn 9, I like this one a lot too.
Brenda Lewis
2021-11-26 23:23:08 +0000 UTCWhoa Shelley, I really enjoyed that wrap-up so much. I think this is the best so far that you've presented the end-of-season video. So thank you for that. And that belly laugh at your past predictions, gosh, it made my heart warm that we can laugh at ourselves so much and not take ourselves seriously. Yeah, I can see you will enjoy the Carver-Dabb era of the Supernatural. The Kripke-Gamble era in my opinion really established the world-building with their plot arc heavy periods, but characterwise, the Carver-Dabb era is the one. I can't really recall other than Sam, Dean, Bobby and Castiel, other side characters that get a good focus arc on their characters in the Kripke-Gamble era. Off on top of my head, like Ruby, Zachariah, Chuck, Crowley, Anna. Those are the only ones I can remember that has a bit of personality but they are built around their plot arcs. Others are one-and-done character episodes. But those that you mentioned in S8, whoa boy, their characters' developments are *chef kiss*. Carver-Dabb era will introduce a lot more side characters that have personality, just you wait. DeanCas relationship, what can I say. Their stories are stuff made of legends. Theirs are the slowest burn that is the mostest, whether theirs are canon or subtext. 'Nuff said. Having said that, I was blind to that relationship until the end of S8. Even when Goodbye Stranger, even when I knew something is happening on the screen, I just couldn't put my finger on it. I felt like I was the most general of the general audience. Though I already knew about the relationship, I couldn't see it at that time. When S8 ended I found about TV tropes, and boy, do my eyes got opened to it. And during S8 is when I started my rewatch and boy howdy, Supernatural sucked me in like no other, like it was the first time watching, and then I got into fandom, mostly tumblr and fan forums. And everything else going forward was history to me. So. Glad that you are still enjoying the show, and welcome to S9. Where they are going to start with the other brother's journey. You know, the one called Dean Winchester, who, in my opinion, is the human legend of a TV hero. And another fave of mine, Castiel, the angel of the Lord. Finally made his impact in this SPN universe in a more meaningful and heartbreaking way. Oh boy Cas, sometimes you and Dean's story, together or separately, both your stories just touch my heart in a significant way, and end up making me cry, a lot. Oh, and, Happy Thanksgiving. Hope you and yours enjoy your holidays.
rose mnor
2021-11-26 02:57:24 +0000 UTCSo i was thinking about the Sam & dean are platonic soulmates thing & if it's text, subtext or a headcanon, the only time this show mentioned soulmates is in dark side of the moon where ash tells Sam & dean that people in heaven share their heaven with their soulmate but we actually see dean & Sam having different heavens in that episode, dean's heaven was a memory of him & young Sam with the fireworks & a memory with his mom & not john while sam's heaven was a memory of his time away from his dad & brother, dean was only able to reach sam's heaven due to cas's help, cas is an angel so he knows shortcuts & ways to get around heaven's rules, the only indication of it (maybe) that someone has offered me as proof is a camera shot that panned to Sam & dean after ash said that that showed them absorbing the info that could be interpreted as the show saying they are soulmates, camera work is subtext not text which is not to say it's not part of the story coz i am a huge believer in subtext being a huge part of any media, i just personally didn't think much of that shot more than Sam & dean just absorbing the info & didn't get that Sam & dean are soulmates from that episode at all, i got the opposite of that, since they weren't sharing the same heaven, they can't be soulmates, in fact that was the whole reason why dean was crushed, because sam's heaven didn't have him in it, no memories with dean wither that was Sam or angel fuckery is up to interpretation, the thing I like most is that heaven isn't immune to the brothers breaking the rules. I am sure in some ways they ARE soulmates because who knows the other better or can understand the other or loves the other more? But on the other hand, I think they are able to be together in heaven also because they are just rule-breaking, boundary-pushing guys & they had cas :), i personally don't love the soulmate trope platonic or romantic, i don't even read it in fic 😅, but especially in this show with how heaven is set up, anything fate related gives me red flags 😂, i much prefer them chosing to be together than something as simple as soulmates but of course if anyone finds more meaning & joy in the concept of them being platonic soulmates then go for it, now i need to rewatch your reaction to dark side of the moon coz i don't remember how you interpreted it 🥰 Dark side of the moon was also an important episode for Sam, up to season 8 he always found joy & felt a certain freedom away from his family & the hunter life (which is why I lean towards his heaven not being angel fuckery), we saw it clearly in season 1 when he ran to Stanford, his only motivation for hunting in season 1 was to get revenge on yellow eyes for killing Jessica, we saw it again in his heaven in dark side of the moon, his heaven was him running away to a "normal" family of a girl that had a crush on him, we saw it again in season 8 with Amelia, his only motivation to hunt in season 8 was to get this over with so he could go back to being normal, to end all demons once & for all so he doesn't have to keep doing this, to this point, Sam is a runner & a hopeless romantic imo, is he running away or running towards something? Probably both, wither that will change or not remains to be seen, will he still have that desire or will he embrace the hunting life? Will he find a new purpose?
Hasnaa
2021-11-26 01:37:15 +0000 UTCSames. That's why Crowley's phone monologue in Clip Show hit me so hard.
SKK
2021-11-26 00:50:54 +0000 UTCThats actually the definition of co dependency back in the 70’s, and since then, the concept has changed a few times and although some still uses it as a drug addiction or illness of the persons in the relationship, now it has expanded to what nowadays it referred to a toxic depending relationship that for simplification I'll use Dean's and Sam's relationship. It refers to a relationship in what one part or both lefts themselves in second only caring in the other one's well being neglecting themselves (needs, emotions, feelings or personal goals) and other relationships in they lives, like Dean and Sam did this season, using manipulation to only focusing in that relationship. It develops in a young age coming from a not healthy family dynamic and even thought it can be from an alcoholic or drug problem in the family it can also be from the lost of a relative, absent parents and such, so if we were to apply to the Winchester all of the main points to call a relationship, codependent, checks
Luis Nov
2021-11-25 15:19:35 +0000 UTC❤️ to all above
SKK
2021-11-25 14:47:34 +0000 UTCI love this wrap up i was nodding in agreement the whole time, yes, lots of people started shipping destiel (or at least more seriously) in season 8, absolutely love that shipper hat, i agreed with everything you said about Sam & dean's relationship & Sam & cas's relationship, can't wait for you to see season 9, i loved your ranking too
Hasnaa
2021-11-25 10:50:39 +0000 UTCI won't say much, because any opinion I express is immediately attacked by certain folk here, but one factual point. Co-dependency does not mean what you think it means. it is a term widely misused within the fandom, but it has an actual meaning. Basically, a co-dependent relationship is one in which one person has a mental illness or addiction and the other draws some benefit from that person remaining ill/addicted. Therefore, any progress towards recovery is sabotaged by the other person. That's it. It does not refer to jealousy or insecurity about losing the other person. It's clear that Dean and Sam are not in any sense co-dependent. Neither is trying to keep the other locked in a bad addiction or mental illness. On the contrary, each constantly tries to pull the other out of their darkness. I know it's used twice in the series itself, once correctly in Sam, Interrupted and incorrectly by Zachariah when talking to Adam. I even have Dean thinking about it and completely misunderstanding it in one of my fanfics. I just worry that using it wrongly can lead to confusion and to people with genuine co-dependency issues getting misunderstood.
Helen Wood
2021-11-25 10:43:00 +0000 UTCS8 is truly an important one, for sure. Carver set out to reboot the show, and went as far as paralleling S1..at least initially with Stanford Sam and Dean coming back into his life after an absence. Except this time...? They are not the same. I love seeing the toll their lives and choices have made on them - both good and bad. And where that might lead in seasons to come. I've often said that this show's sweet spot IMO will always be in the conflict more than the resolution, and I'm fine with that. Excellent wrap up, Shelley! Thank you for all you do.
Vel
2021-11-25 10:14:23 +0000 UTCThe subtext (Destiel) and even the actual text (codependent soulmate brothers who live in a magic underground bunker and are referred to as a couple by almost everyone) has fascinated, frustrated and confused all of us at some point. I don't think that will ever change - at least I hope not. It's so different from a lot of the other existing shows out there. And I agree...sometimes people are a little harsh with how they look at the show. Some of that comes from the generation the creators/many of the writers and actors came from (Xers were never wanting to be defined or boxed in) at odds with times changing into having validation and labeling becoming much more accepted and necessary for some. Neither are right or wrong...they are just different ways we express ourselves. That being said, we have a long way to go with getting to where everyone feels seen and represented in media...however, I will not ignore that steps haven't been taken (even in SPN). It may not always be in the ways we want it, but it doesn't mean it's not happening. In essence, I am always tickled when a show will give their fans and fandom a little nod, but I can also see where that can set a dangerous precedent for creators and artists. Hope that makes sense... ;)
Vel
2021-11-25 09:58:04 +0000 UTCPlease understand I love and agree with so many aspects of these comments and the video on the whole; this is not a shipper or non-shipper comment. Please also understand I came to this show in 2020, so it never once occurred to me that a Dean/Cas relationship could or could not happen because of popularity -- literally never once, and only occurred once I started reading articles and posts, which I sat with. Netflix-timewarp permitting, I think the network was among the first to have main characters be queer-identifying - on the entirety of the spectrum? (problematic and growing pains-inclusive though those may have been) Maybe what I'm currently pondering is wrong, truly. I acknowledge that may be the case. I myself have been fluid and mingle within that community, which may present its own blinders. I invite alternatives and am not here to yuck any yums in any direction. All these acknowledgments are to precede the following, which I present as a writer, actor, creator, and human: perhaps there's some being hard on "Show" as to whether or not Dean/Cas would ever happen because of a network/writers'/creators' decision? I simultaneously think there's value in believing the creators meant what they textually expressed about queer relationships in various episodes in preceding seasons (someone else presented a quote that was super relevant, so I won't plagiarize) and in exploring at length intense relationships that aren't dating relationships? I'm of the humble opinion that any three-dimensional human relationship includes some balance of love, hate, humor, indifference, sexuality, platonism, etc. If we are open to another, our various boundaries are porous. It doesn't mean there isn't value in who we express ourselves to be within that balance both explicitly and in our private moments. I started by saying this wasn't a shipper comment. I'll end by saying I ship aplenty. I'm also just a caretaker by nature. Can't help it. Please forgive. <3
SKK
2021-11-25 07:50:04 +0000 UTCI would've picked the same episodes, minus 'A Little Slice of Kevin'. To me, 'As Time Goes By' trumps all of them. It's my favorite of the season, and Gil is great as Henry.<p></p> <p>Like Louis mentioned, your laugh at the incorrect prediction of Sam getting Dean & Cas out, was life. But I laughed when you predicted it, too. LOL,</p> <p>I find it interesting that you keep bringing up God each season. But what if they never bring in God? Will that disappoint you? I mean that's a massive character and it could offend some viewers.</p> <p>You and everyone here from the US have a Happy Thanksgiving</p>
Amye Sabin
2021-11-25 06:18:00 +0000 UTCYour laugh at your prediction of Sam being the one that rescue Dean, Cas and even Meg was everything! Totally same, when you predicted that we all were like 🤣 I knew, called it, Men’s best friends with benefits of course was number one 😌. But in all honesty it would have been cool because the writers of that episode were the same as A little slide of Kevin and Taxi driver so the top 3 would have been an ep of them, but who could blame you… Charlie a true queen + Dean on that suit…👀
Luis Nov
2021-11-25 05:53:29 +0000 UTC
