thenormies / [Premium Access + Uncut] Links of the Day!

good point! But he could have been more clear but he was just too scared to face the music

Carson Cardarella

2023-11-08 03:37:24 +0000 UTC

Yeah I think they are too excited 😂😂 but still, self control people

Carson Cardarella

2023-11-08 03:35:51 +0000 UTC

Joss Whedon himself came out after Season 6 to tell fans that he was responsible for the arc of Season 6 so that fans would stop blaming everything on Noxon, but I see we're still pushing the same tired fake narratives about her in 2023. "Buffy" wouldn't be "Buffy" without the core writing team around Whedon (David Greenwalt, Marti Noxon, Jane Espenson, Douglas Petrie, David Fury etc) and anyone who doesn't believe that can try reading the Buffy comics Whedon did after the show (they ain't good).

outdoorcats

2023-11-08 03:09:33 +0000 UTC

Calm down, Pajander, they're all over this thread. Stop pouting for one minute and you'll see them

BetheSOUL

2023-11-07 03:21:27 +0000 UTC

it's not about being fictional, it's the issue that if you think that is okay, you will probably be gaslit in your own relationship.

Gwenhwyfar Aine

2023-11-06 00:26:51 +0000 UTC

All i can say about this comment is: facts are facts. Well said. Especially the first paragraph.

rickie woodson

2023-11-04 18:40:56 +0000 UTC

I was today's years old when i found out greg wisman created young justice. I will always love him for bringing me disney's gargoyles along with dwayne mcduffie. Hope you guys can put it (and xmen the animated series) on a poll after young justice. You will NOT be disappointed. Gargoyles is LITERALLY shakespearen in so many ways. #Demona

rickie woodson

2023-11-04 18:37:43 +0000 UTC

No, not even close to "near everybody". Sometimes people with very strong opinions assume, incorrectly, that everyone else must or should have that same opinion. It's a silly way to look at the world but unfortunately extremely common. I personally hate the direction the show takes as well as some of the story lines that she implements once she becomes the show runner.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 18:19:43 +0000 UTC

Lol

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 18:10:41 +0000 UTC

I haven't seen anyone say that they wanted that relationship to continue or that it was a healthy relationship. But I guess it's important to feel morally superior about a two decades old fictional relationship.

Pajander

2023-11-04 11:29:07 +0000 UTC

That's what they talked about in the discussion for like five minutes. That it's worse if you make a prefrontal cortex level decision to cheat instead of "getting swept up in the moment" (i.e. in emotion and attraction). Not that it really matters when either of those is a dealbreaker anyway. But at least the first type could theoretically be reasoned with, while the latter will just cheat on you any time they find themselves in a "moment" where they're feeling some kind of way about someone.

Pajander

2023-11-04 11:16:42 +0000 UTC

Obviously the breakup could've been cleaner and it should've happened earlier, but guys, remember that this is the good ending. The bad ending would've been if they spent years or decades together just being miserable because Riley isn't ready for an adult relationship and Buffy doesn't really love him that much.

Pajander

2023-11-04 10:52:09 +0000 UTC

You'll see why in the next 2 seasons as she became the show runner. Noxon has a vision on how things should be and changes them regardlesz on if its the right thing to do like i said Riley was suppose to be a good guy and she found him bland which is why he becomes what he became in season 5 solely because she liked that better.

All Mighty Lowercase Jay

2023-11-04 09:12:17 +0000 UTC

"some people" you mean near everybody. "The Wish," "The Prom," "Buffy vs Dracula" to name a few are universally loved. I don't know why you have so much hatred for her lol it's bizarre

BetheSOUL

2023-11-04 08:59:08 +0000 UTC

??

BetheSOUL

2023-11-04 08:54:20 +0000 UTC

What Riley wants is a co-dependent relationship. Riley is NOT the only guy who could possibly be with Buffy in a normal life. There are billions of men in the world, and Buffy doesn't need to settle with the one who has to cheat on her in order to feel better. Furthermore, Riley didn't own up to his insecurities. To own up to his insecurities is to say "I've been feeling insecure because of this specific thing." Instead he talked to Xander and Spike, and only opened up to Buffy once he had already been caught, you know, CHEATING. And even then, he only gave justifications and put the blame on her. And saying to Buffy that they should take care of each other in 5x5 is not even close to saying: "I feel like we feel differently about each and I want reassurance because I've never heard you say you love me." And as a psych major in his mid 20s, he should know that. This video explains it all with great detail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Khr0UYM9a8

BetheSOUL

2023-11-04 08:52:53 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown thank you all for recognizing Riley's toxic and manipulative behavior. The commenters who are disagreeing with you have no clue what a healthy relationship is

BetheSOUL

2023-11-04 08:38:22 +0000 UTC

He addresses them yes, but those are his views and opinions on it, not fact, and we are entitled to our opinions and views. You are trying to prove us wrong when no one in this debate is wrong, we just have different views

Unstablebeast

2023-11-04 08:28:16 +0000 UTC

Y'all still haven't watched the video. All those arguments you're making get addressed.

BetheSOUL

2023-11-04 08:25:24 +0000 UTC

Well articulated the viewpoint. I agree with almost all of it.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 08:24:16 +0000 UTC

Marti Noxon is one of the worst things to ever happen to this show, IMHO. Though I understand why some people feel different.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 08:22:26 +0000 UTC

Or maybe they look at his character differently than you do. There is a relatively small but vocal subset of fans that absolutely despise Xander and (practically) everything he says or does. Based on your comments about him I'm thinking you're probably one of those fans. Which is totally fine, just don't expect everyone to view the character and his actions in the same uncharitable light that you do.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 08:18:04 +0000 UTC

Honestly, I don't understand why some people feel the need/desire to spoil these shows. It's unbelievably aggravating. Just let them experience it in their own way, with no foreknowledge about characters, events or story beats. It's really not that hard.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 08:09:58 +0000 UTC

Personally, I didn't really like that screen junkies Honest Trailer. I didn't find it to be very funny and I thought it was very negative in regards to the quality of the show. They clearly are not Buffy fans.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 08:03:17 +0000 UTC

Also, as far as Xander needing to have that talk with Riley not Buffy, I see your point but disagree. He and Riley are barely friends, honestly more acquaintances than anything. Friends of a friend. He and Buffy on the other hand are extremely close friends. I think that makes a huge difference when you're talking about having such a delicate/provacative discussion with someone.

Chris Peterson

2023-11-04 07:52:24 +0000 UTC

Hey now, I still ship spike and buffy, me pointing out Riley had some points her does not mean I prefer him iver spike or angel lol

Unstablebeast

2023-11-04 04:59:54 +0000 UTC

True. And Buffy even admits in a future episode that she was responsible for Riley leaving because she was shut down. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time with Buffy being imperfect. And to find it preferable to ship Buffy with killers of innocent men, women and children than forgive a man who got suck jobs when he was in major pain says a lot about people's morality.

John Moreland

2023-11-04 04:56:18 +0000 UTC

Late Woooo but still somber buffy thursday with riley exit, darla with soul exit and finaly getting the begining of Dark Angel, a very dark angel indeed, at least angelus is more entertaining. but at least got slight return for aqualad so yea good week

Ricardo Obregon

2023-11-04 03:26:41 +0000 UTC

I actually think his take is full of biases and he misses many things about Riley's point of view

Christopher simeon

2023-11-04 01:49:59 +0000 UTC

He did tell her that he wants them to take care of each other and buffy seem to agree on that.

Christopher simeon

2023-11-04 01:48:54 +0000 UTC

Yes exactly. Buffy doesn't have many options as the slayer. This is really about if she can let this ruin her chance of ever having a lasting relationship with a normal guy. People cheat but I really wouldn't put this high on the cheating list especially if we are making the metaphors into the real thing. Buffy letting dracula bite her then drinking his blood would then be cheating too because that is a metaphor for meeting someone famous and giving him a blowjob.

Christopher simeon

2023-11-04 01:44:39 +0000 UTC

He communicated in 5x5 what he wanted from buffy (instead of you taking care of me how about we agree to take care of each other is his exact words to which buffy seem to agree) and ironically she communicated in 5x2 that she wanted to be taken care of like dawn was.

Christopher simeon

2023-11-04 01:36:01 +0000 UTC

#sunday rundown. I have gone through this series many times with other reactors and rewatching it while focusing on what buffy did wrong makes Riley action's much more understandable. Buffy is our protagonist but I feel that perspective really makes people blind to her flaws. There is so much irony in what you guys are using against Riley. You guys say he should tells buffy about his insecurities then when he does you guys completely destroy him. Insecurities aren't usually logic and come from a emotional place and you guys basically saying Man up and get over it is the reason men usually don't share this information. Everytime people call buffy out on her mistakes. 3x2 dead men party and 3x7 being perfect examples people are quick to defend her actions and argue against the people calling her out. Buffy major character flaw is bottling her emotions and handling things alone when she doesn't need to. She did it when she ran away after not telling people what happened in 2x22 and when she hid angel in 3x7. What Riley did was wrong of course but when in buffy's life will she ever have someone who was there for her like he was and actually trying to be apart of her slayer life? Who will ever be able to match her? Nobody? That is why Xander defended him. Riley is basically the only guy who could possibly be with buffy in a normal life. He knows the life can be normal and fights it well. When will she ever get that again? That is what Xander is telling her. Find a way to get through this one mistake or lose the chance to have that kind of relationship. buffy in 5x2 complained about dawn being babied and saying she wishes someone would take care of her like that. In 5x5 Riley said to buffy that they should take care of each other. So he did talk to her about this before and she even suggested the start of this arc for him trying to be there for her but she is the one who made it difficult to do so.

Christopher simeon

2023-11-03 17:57:42 +0000 UTC

He's not fully in the wrong, buffy put him at a distance and again treated him differently than she did angel well before her mom got sick, I also can't recall a single time she ever said she loved him. You say he didn't have a life, fighting demons was and still is his life but since the initiative shut down, his only way to do it was around buffy, that's why he went with the military, it was the other way to fight demons. And xanders point boiled down to its core, was if she didn't love Riley anymore, then make it a clean break up, go and tell hom it's done, but if she did love him, to go get him and work on the problems, seemingly from her reaction, she decided she loved him. Relationships develop issues and uts on both parties to talk it out and try to find a way for it to work, and if they can't, end the relationship, Riley didn't communicate well, that's on him, that's his issue, but you can't deny that buffy did keep him out, that she did treat him very differently from her last love, and everyone around them telling Riley how much more she cared about angel definitely didn't help

Unstablebeast

2023-11-03 17:04:02 +0000 UTC

Basically, Buffy communicated very clearly to Riley what she needed from him. She is going through A LOT on top of literally carrying the world on her shoulders, and neither you nor Riley get to tell her how to grieve or what she needs. Riley wanted to be more of a presence in her life, but that was his own issue, because he wasn't doing anything with his own life. Seriously, he's entire world revolves around Buffy. He wanted a co-dependent relationship, which isn't healthy. The suck jobs were a mistake, as you said, but a mistake to apologize for, which he never did. He deflected all responsibility on Buffy's relationship style and gave her an ultimatum. He is completely in the wrong, his points are indeed all bullshit. Xander is completely in the wrong. The writers did a very bad job with this episode, as all critics and scholars universally agree.

BetheSOUL

2023-11-03 16:54:19 +0000 UTC

It's called an opinion, no side is fully wrong, and claiming one side is wrong is very close minded, instead of thinking on my points and offering your own counters, you just tell me to watch a video essay, you aren't trying to have a discussion, you are trying to make me change my mind and agree with you, I've thought about this plenty, I know my opinion on it

Unstablebeast

2023-11-03 16:45:31 +0000 UTC

This video essay demonstrates how wrong you are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Khr0UYM9a8

BetheSOUL

2023-11-03 16:42:56 +0000 UTC

I would imagine it's because he does not want to kill humans with his own hands in the process of that. Shutting the door and locking it in his clouded mind means that dru and Darla are the ones actually killing the lawyers.

Aaron Ventura

2023-11-03 16:12:57 +0000 UTC

idk ya'll but as the showrunner who did have final say on scripts it's not unreasonable to think he might have rewritten the parts I hate about this episode. didn't know marti has said that so fair enough. there are parts of this episode that definitely reek of the worst parts of Whedon, and it's fair to view it that way esp in light of who is as a person. so whatever, not interested in fighting about this. i just didn't love being accused of not understanding this episode when its very clear to me what the issues with it are. again, this is a agree to disagree situation so ya'll have a good day.

Katey

2023-11-03 15:25:00 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown While I agree Riley fucked up, I feel like you guys piled on him a bit completely not thinking about what he was saying. You kept saying he wasn't there for her when she cried, but a couple episodes before that, he was there for her at the hospital, and told her it's ok to cry with him, and she told him no, if she cries she will fall apart, and then she went into the room with dawn and Joyce and closed Riley out. When he could tell she was hiding the dawn secret from her, she kept it hidden even when it drove him away, then she immediately told Giles. And everytime angel is brought up he becomes the focus of buffys world, and everyone around Riley has been telling him she obsessed over angel way more. In a way he's right, she doesn't need him, in no aspect of her life is Riley the first, most important person, and he could have been gone this whole season and she would've been just the same. So while again I agree the suck jobs were a big mistake, his points aren't just bullshit

Unstablebeast

2023-11-03 10:26:29 +0000 UTC

You people are wild. It was a series of repeated, deliberate mistakes. And it was cheating, being angry about it isn't being "puritanical" about sex.

Steve Hayes

2023-11-03 09:26:39 +0000 UTC

mickey take a breath bro

Josh

2023-11-03 08:03:22 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown #Buffy Fun Fact - Riley Finn was originally created by Joss Whedon to be a Captain America esque Good Ol' Boy and the polar opposite to Angel. Executive Producer and Writer Marti Noxon however viewed Riley as being bland and chose in season 5 to make Riley a more "Tortured and Complex" character as to Noxon it was far more compelling for her to write, and thus explaining the changes seen in the character this season. Marti Noxon is a big fan of melodrama and darker themes hence why 5x10 is ... well, what it was.

All Mighty Lowercase Jay

2023-11-03 08:00:30 +0000 UTC

I mean Riley isn't wrong in thinking that literally no one needs him or wants him, in the show or in the audience. It gets so annoying because it takes them ten episodes to write him out even when it has been obvious to everyone for at least five episodes that it's the correct decision. And they still have to kind of force the plot, which results in some pretty janky writing.

Pajander

2023-11-03 06:58:20 +0000 UTC

So if I'm getting this right, the women think cheating is less bad if there's emotion and passion and attraction involved.

Pajander

2023-11-03 06:41:26 +0000 UTC

Well, to me it's glaringly obvious it was written (and directed) by Noxon, because she's the one that does this sort of straight-faced melodrama. Whedon is a piece of shit but he would've written this differently.

Pajander

2023-11-03 06:38:30 +0000 UTC

1st off Whedon had final say on all ep Buffy and Angel and you don't have this issue anywhere else and 2nd Marti Noxon is on record saying she wanted Riley to be more tortured and complex because she found it more compelling than the original Anti Angel character Whedon wanted. So its not fair for you to blame Whedon for the issues you have with this ep when you have 0 proof he was resposible. Noxon wrote the ep and didn't like the Captain America character Riley was originally suppose to be as she didn't think it was interesting enough. This actually ties back into the Riley and Buffy story as its not One Persons fault for things going wrong. Everyone involved has a hand in it.

All Mighty Lowercase Jay

2023-11-03 06:22:05 +0000 UTC

Maybe it's Whedon's toxicity coming through in the character beats, but he would have written that very differently. That soap opera melodrama is Noxon's style and it works better in some of her other episodes.

Pajander

2023-11-03 06:13:21 +0000 UTC

Ugh, the next episode is the worst of S5. Just stupid. Luckily, after that it's all great eps thru the season finale.

John Moreland

2023-11-03 05:15:15 +0000 UTC

I never knew they were so incredibly puritanical and judgmental about sex. Some of them are shipping Buffy and Spike, a man who has killed people, including children probably, and SA'ed women in his day. But Riley's suck jobs when he's in major pain is somehow an unforgivable step too far??

John Moreland

2023-11-03 05:10:34 +0000 UTC

the problem is the execution is so horrible that it doesnt treat buffy or riley or xander right. xander absolutely is taking riley's side. he's been taking his side since earlier in the season. xander had no right to deliver this speech to buffy and the way it's framed paints xander and riley both in the right. this was not the time to try and showcase the main character "not always being right" because there are way more nuanced and complicated things happening in her life right now. riley and buffy are miscommunicating, and that should be the main issue of this plot line, but it's not. it ends up being about how riley feels about not feeling needed, and that it's entirely buffy's fault for their miscommunication and the melodramatic ultimatum from riley and the way xander appears to give buffy a stupid ass speech when he has no leg to stand on with her ends up painting riley as having the moral high ground. if this had a proper set up, i would be fine with it, but the execution of this whole episode is entirely why it's so bad. im paying perfect attention to every character this season (and the multiple times ive seen this season), and it still doesn't work for me. it not only doesnt works, it actively betrays buffy, which is the episode's worst offense. you can have your main character make mistakes but treating her feelings like they are less than the men she's surrounded with is the betrayal. it all just feels like the episode (and thus, whedon) is putting buffy in her place, which isn't how it's supposed to be. this episode was written by marti noxen but whedon always had final say in the scripts and i just think it's glaringly obvious where he might have stepped in on rewrites. i know this is probably an agree to disagree situation we've got here, but i really can't stand this episode for the reasons stated in my two comments.

Katey

2023-11-03 05:01:25 +0000 UTC

I think a lot of people's problem with this ep is they aren't paying attention to the them of the season which is relationships. Buffy, Willow and Xander are all in relationships and they're all being dipcted differently where as Willow and Tera are clearly in love and different from the rest Buffy & Riley and Xander & Anya's relatonships are dipicted as similair. Both Buffy/Riley and Xander/Anya in which the relatioship is very sexual but lacking in emotional connection. Both Riley/Anya are clear about their feelings while Xander/Buffy are not. This is why most people miss the point of what is going on with Xander and his talk with Buffy (Its also not well written so that doesn't help). Xander is not taking Riley's side he is instead talking to Buffy honestly while standing in her shoes. Remember Buffy never tells anyone what she saw Riley doing she only tells them he is leaving. Everything Xander says to Buffy could also aply to him and Anya. Xander tells Buffy she's took Riley for granted, she Ignored Riley's feelings (just like Xander is doing to Anya), and only now after Riley gave her an Ultimatum she is willing to let him leave. Xander basically told her if that is what she wanted then let him go but if not go after him (agian she never told anyone about Riley in the Vampire den). All of this is then capped off by Xander going to Anya to tell her he loves her for the 1st time while Buffy is too late to catch Riley. This entire plot line has been building since last season and is one of the times where the series shows that Buffy isn't always right.

All Mighty Lowercase Jay

2023-11-03 04:23:17 +0000 UTC

The plan without spoiling it from W&H is to keep him distracted and off his right path

CWall

2023-11-03 03:39:58 +0000 UTC

fr Season 5 Riley was just a drain to the Scoobies

Ori Lotus

2023-11-03 03:25:34 +0000 UTC

You know the Jeremy Clarkson "oh no! Anyway" meme? Yeah that was my reaction when Riley left. Finally the season (and the show) can now get better with him gone. And i'm not even a Riley hater, i didn't mind him in S4. But he SUCKS in S5. Good riddance lol

Shockzz1234

2023-11-03 02:27:06 +0000 UTC

Buffy - Yes, Riley blew it. Great post reaction. Angel - Yay! Dru is back! No post reaction. And it wasn't fun to watch Chris fall asleep before he went out 'pooping'. Seriously, Chris really needs to get his shit back.

Jontor11

2023-11-03 02:21:29 +0000 UTC

lol same!!! horrible episode but fantastic reaction. ive always hated this episode but when i first watched it i was so shocked by how the breakup was actually happening and how the episode turned buffy into the one that was chasing after riley because xander of all people told her off. ughhhh it's the worst lol

Katey

2023-11-03 01:33:09 +0000 UTC

Angel closing those doors is such an ICONIC moment!! i loved it too but also can totally see why his friends are worried. he's been erratic all season and his whole mission is that people, as long as they have a soul, can turn things around. the lawyers were always going to be a hard sell. I don't actually fault him for making this choice. What is concerning is how he is clearly forgetting his mission. We saw it this episode when the powers that be sent him in a different direction and he didn't care. Yeah, Darla and Dru needed to be dealt with but he's also clearly falling into Wolfram and Hart's trap. He's playing THEIR game, and once that happens, he's already lost. but the ultimate concern is him firing his friends. remember the end of season 1, when cordy and wes were concerned about him not having anything to live for. welp, he just pushed away the only connections he has to his humanity. as a story progression, i love this!!! but it's also very concerning for his character. but shit is getting good now lol. W&H want to distract Angel because he's always messing up their work and ruining all of their cases. there's more to their "Angel is our project" thing but i dont want to spoil it too much. but also they really do just want him out of their way so they can do their job. not killing him is the other part of the project.

Katey

2023-11-03 01:29:28 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown - Hey guys! Another fun reaction to a wild episode. And yes, there’s alot of counterparts between Marvel & DC. Here’s some if you wanna share it with the group: DeathStroke -> Deadpool, Bumblebee-> Wasp, Darkseid -> Thanos, Wonder Woman -> She Hulk, Red Tornado -> Vision, Black Canary -> Black Widow. Here’s some more if you guys wanna see https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/marple71/lists/marvel-and-dc-characters-who-are-similar/52727/

Kuro

2023-11-03 01:11:53 +0000 UTC

Seems to me the gang missed a few of the story beats in the Riley/Buffy arc this season.

Tasker Thorn

2023-11-03 00:11:08 +0000 UTC

Rewatching it with the Normies made me change my opinion of the episode. It's a really bad episode and felt like a soap opera. Their reaction to this episode had me laughing many times.

Chaos T

2023-11-02 23:58:42 +0000 UTC

Knowing the allegations against Whedon and rewatching Buffy with The Normies have me thinking different about some scenes in this series. My initial thoughts about the Xander speech were similar to Micky's in believing it made some sense but was executed weirdly but now that scene looks like a Joss Whedon insert. The toxicity and weirdness in that scene now makes sense.

Chaos T

2023-11-02 23:40:16 +0000 UTC

i can't really get into it because of spoilers but imo Xander's dickhead moments in regards to Buffy's (and others) relationships hasn't even peaked yet and he has far worse and more judgmental, hypocritical, and petty moments in the future. and he should pretty much never be viewed as the voice of reason, especially about relationships lol.

kyle

2023-11-02 23:35:16 +0000 UTC

This is honestly the worst fucking episode of Buffy. It is the one episode that i believe actually betrays its main character. Remember, this is a dude writing about the emotions of a young woman and that has never been more clear than in this episode. Riley giving Buffy an ultimatum when he's in the wrong is the wildest shit i have ever seen. and i fucking hate xander in this episode too. he is not being buffy's friend here. he's taking riley's side because on some level he's still pissed and upset about buffy not choosing him back in season 1. making her run to riley at the end and miss him so that she feels like shit and in the wrong is such a shitty thing make your main character go through for no reason. this episode sucks so much. im so glad all of you agree. the riley love from earlier made me worry but i can see why people love riley at first. but this episode really taints him for me. there are so many other extinuating circumstances surrounding the rreasons riley says buffy should have needed him. agree with marketa on all of riley stuff. riley has been very selfish this entire season. this was such an entertaining reaction though. top tier normies episodes imo hahahahaa

Katey

2023-11-02 23:25:02 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown re Xanders speech to Buffy. I come down on the side of Xander having some valid points. At this moment Buffy is prepared to let Riley leave because she feels that he is unfair in his ultimatum. Xander tells her so what. Sure Riley is being unfair but is that a good enough reason to let him leave? Perhaps it is, but if she loves him and wants to be with him then it might not be. He’s in essence advising her to switch her frame of mind from asking whether she’s right about Riley being an ass to whether it matters. That’s a question that, as he rightly points out, only she can answer!

William Hult

2023-11-02 23:07:23 +0000 UTC

Thank goodness we're over all the Riley stuff. His character was enjoyable in season four but the character writing for him is really subpar in season five and probably the most annoying thing about this season. He was a soldier without a country after the events of season four and military life is probably the best for him.

Chaos T

2023-11-02 23:00:44 +0000 UTC

The speech isn't out of character, it's in keeping with Xander at his worst. Xander not telling Buffy about Riley's insecurity about their relationship, though, does feel out of character. Xander was frequently a shitty friend where Buffy's relationship with Angel is concerned, but he actually likes Riley and seemed to be genuinely rooting for their relationship. I don't buy that he wouldn't mention it at all or try to reach out to Riley to help him out with whatever's going on in his head, once the massive distraction of Joyce's brain tumour is out of the way. Plus, his dickhead moments mostly stop after season 3 (not entirely, but he does chill out and grow up significantly after high school,) so this feels like a bit of a throwback.

Holy Stregas

2023-11-02 22:44:10 +0000 UTC

If you guys think this episode of young justice was like that meme with the snipers, just wait until the second to last episode lol

McPickle

2023-11-02 22:42:10 +0000 UTC

It's implied that Spike was the only one who knew: none of the Scoobies mention the hospital visit or allude to it in any way until she calls them from the hospital, after she tells Riley.

Holy Stregas

2023-11-02 22:38:36 +0000 UTC

Keep in mind that Buffy was 16/17 at that time when she was with Angel. She has grown up since then and out of it and we very rarely now see her fall back into that vulnerability she had when she was a teen and with Angel.

Poison Ivy

2023-11-02 22:33:08 +0000 UTC

i think y'all are giving Xander too much credit in saying his speech was out of character lol. and maybe forgetting how he's been at times. like his incel vibes when he was into Buffy and jealous of Angel (something that kind of always lingers imo), how he would lash out at her because she didn't like him back, or weird things he has said about women throughout the show in passing. isn't his first "redpill/bro" moment and isn't his last.

kyle

2023-11-02 22:00:56 +0000 UTC

As morally wrong Angel was here, it was JUST so satisfying. Throwing Holland's words back at him. After seeing all the dead bodies in store bc of W&H and Holland not even really give one fuck about his dead wife, he just had it coming. Interesting that both Buffy and Angel went through stuff that gave them "take no prisoners" attitudes this week.

Chris K.

2023-11-02 21:42:07 +0000 UTC

And what pissed me off that he didnt even turn his head in that helicopter once?? look out that gdamn window? how much did he really love her....

Chris K.

2023-11-02 21:28:14 +0000 UTC

addiction is addiction. if you can have compassion for a crackhead you can have compassion for a ho. dont be a hypocrite #fairness

rickie woodson

2023-11-02 21:04:25 +0000 UTC

Dark Angel has entered the chat

Kwigz-kun

2023-11-02 21:01:30 +0000 UTC

yall really letting one mistake color riley's entire personality and history??????? YIKES...............

rickie woodson

2023-11-02 20:59:04 +0000 UTC

riley being riley: CHARACTER ASSASSINATION. lol he has always been insecure and wanted a fire passionate torrid love affair with buffy like she had with angel since he found out about angel. he was an epic love and buffy isnt giving it to him. he's responsible for his part and she's responsible for hers. she DOES keep him at a distance. that conversation with her move highlighted. her telling everyone but him that her mom was at the hospital also highlights it. subconsciously, she is casual about riley, and her conscious minds refuses to admit it to herself.

rickie woodson

2023-11-02 20:56:24 +0000 UTC

"To make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs." Then why didn't he set the building on fire to make sure they were dead, and take out Darla and Dru at the same time? "Breaking the eggs" was his entire point here, the omelette was incidental.

Holy Stregas

2023-11-02 20:52:04 +0000 UTC

Agree with Marketta, stop spoiling characters. Hindsight is 20/20. Let them enjoy the journey of each character. Stop semi-spoiling it.

Carson Coleman

2023-11-02 20:42:18 +0000 UTC

Poor Buffy, but enjoyed her 'dark' side. She let that vampire junkie have it. Agree with most on the Riley thing

Chris K.

2023-11-02 20:32:46 +0000 UTC

Sunday rundown: The fight between Sportsmaster and Black Manta was good and the weapon sports master used is called a Meteor Hammer if you ever watched kill bill they used that weapon in the boss fight also in the DC show stargirl you can see live action version of Sportsmaster

BradBoimler

2023-11-02 20:10:15 +0000 UTC

It's easy to react the way you guys did towards Riley. Suraj nailed it, he never communicated anything until forced to. He was postponing the inevitable. He knew Buffy didn't love him (see episode 2 or 3 of season 5 when he tells Xander). Riley is obviously in the wrong with his actions, but his feeling of not being yearned for from Buffy or needed, wasn't inaccurate. Not that Buffy's to blame, she just didn't really love him.

Carson Cardarella

2023-11-02 20:08:25 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown..... I understand the initial frustration with Riley. That's how I felt when I first watched. But Riley was always there. Buffy closed herself off when her mom got sick and that's nothing we can blame her for. But Riley tried to be there. She kept him out of the loop, never confided in him emotionally like she did with Angel. She's never told Riley she loves him. You've heard him say it multiple times. That's no crime, just reality. And to clarify, Riley isnt Mr. Perfect, he's insecure and terrible at communicating. But I really don't think there's a bad guy in this situation between Riley and Buffy. She didn't love him the way he loved her. He felt it and started sabatoging their relationship.

Carson Cardarella

2023-11-02 20:05:40 +0000 UTC

#Sundayrundown #YoungJustice I am offended on behalf of Chris and Teen Titans. There were soooo many fights on that show. This is why I have an irrational dislike of Teen Titans Go.

Rahsaan

2023-11-02 20:01:50 +0000 UTC

I think that both Buffy and Riley didn't communicate well with each other. So Riley was getting the wrong impression from Buffy and Buffy wasn't getting all the information from Riley. Add into with a bit of bad writing here and there because they were trying to write off a character that just wasn't popular and you have a mess. P.S. Screen Junkies just did a honest trailer for Buffy, do not watch it until you complete the series, it has spoilers all the way to the last episode.

Christopher Grove

2023-11-02 19:48:33 +0000 UTC

@Macs Riley has shown himself to be a bad communicator, willing to resort to sh and blames Buffy for everything that’s happened to him He’s incredibly toxic and codependent, he shouldn’t be in any kind of relationship rn he needs help

space colon

2023-11-02 19:11:48 +0000 UTC

Oh for sure lol that’s often their response

space colon

2023-11-02 19:10:02 +0000 UTC

Anya is the cool aunt.

Rufus May

2023-11-02 19:09:32 +0000 UTC

sportsmaster is literally the best character

kai

2023-11-02 19:06:58 +0000 UTC

Space i think Riley did try a few times and was rejected "I know you have a lot on your mind, you want to let me in on any of that, gimme a call. I'll come running".

Bisibia

2023-11-02 18:49:26 +0000 UTC

The normies are very much in favor of murder as long as it's ppl they don't like lmao this has been a thing for them forever. Cordy even said it "when? After they finish off all the ppl you don't like!?" The normies whole crew would totally do the same thing

Bisibia

2023-11-02 18:47:15 +0000 UTC

Yeah Wesley, Cordy and Gunn thought they were helping Batman but when Batman starts killing people they were hurt and shocked

space colon

2023-11-02 18:34:31 +0000 UTC

I hear you and agree about Buffy not being honest and at the same time he wasn’t honest with her about how he felt He didn’t communicate with her or try to get help and instead turned to what he turned to and blamed her Xander should have been giving RILEY the big “wake up” speech

space colon

2023-11-02 18:30:38 +0000 UTC

Yeah! He’d be a great guest on either of the pods also He deconstructed the episode and the whole toxic dynamic is such a nuanced and sensitive way

space colon

2023-11-02 18:28:56 +0000 UTC

@Bisibia I appreciate the way you framed your response RILEY should have been the one Xander spoke to Passion of a Nerd has a great video on this episode and discusses the Xander scene for 4 min https://youtu.be/6Khr0UYM9a8?si=jTmujEdOQUuwpA9_ It's not that Willow would be better, the things Xander said are accusatory and beyond rude. If he saw things coming then A). Why didn’t he talk to Riley ahead of time and B). Why didn’t he warn Buffy Riley is codependent with her, it’s beyond toxic, HE should be the one getting the big talk about this relationship

space colon

2023-11-02 18:25:36 +0000 UTC

I think you are wrong. Buffy can be vulnerable. She has done it with angel and that is why it is so hurtful to Riley that she can't do it with him. There is a difference between not being able to and only doing it the love of your life.

Christopher simeon

2023-11-02 17:52:15 +0000 UTC

Even if she did write the script he assigned different parts to people. he would have final say on the major character beats and plot points and this is a major one.

NJM

2023-11-02 17:32:37 +0000 UTC

its not about W&H, its about Angel he just let a bunch of fairly awful people die, but still people, its not about the pieces of shit that died, its that Angel let it happen, it is not a hero moment its a FUCK YOU DIE, which however justified is still wrong, he could've saved them he chose not to.

Macs

2023-11-02 17:24:21 +0000 UTC

Xander just told Buffy that because he loves Riley

Calvin Allen

2023-11-02 17:20:10 +0000 UTC

I thought Marti Noxon took credit for the Xander speech. And not just she wrote the episode. She said she specifically wrote that part. But I can't find any sources on that so I'm not sure. If anyone knows let me know

Calvin Allen

2023-11-02 17:18:56 +0000 UTC

As someone who has chased after the idea of who I wanted an ex to be, I wish I could just tell her to STOP!

Calvin Allen

2023-11-02 17:14:27 +0000 UTC

"why is she so strong?" "is this the same demon" holy fucking shit did Chris finally get it?

Macs

2023-11-02 16:58:35 +0000 UTC

The black and white scene is from Giles' dream in Restless, the season 4 finale. I'm impressed Suraj pegged the final Xander speech as a Joss Whedon insert. Whedon has said that Xander is a stand-in for him. It explains his red pill-y, self-righteous, toxic perspectives. This is not the first time he has strong opinions about her love life, like she owes him any explanations. His speech makes sense if you imagine he's talking/thinking about himself and projecting his unreconciled feelings for Buffy (he alludes to this in a previous episode when he says that Riley reminds him of himself). Him finally saying I love you to Anya was him finally letting go of his high school Buffy crush and moving on.

NJM

2023-11-02 16:57:06 +0000 UTC

@Kongolor he wanted to kill the entire w&h team from the start, D&D gave him the excuse, thats it, also Angel making an entrance is his thing its lampshaded by eve much later

Macs

2023-11-02 16:55:08 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown: this season should’ve been titled ‘Young Justice: Don’t Trust Anyone because everyone is being backstabbed 😂😂. It’s nice to see Nightwing put his detective hat on seeing as every member of the Bat family picks up that trait from Batman/Bruce. SportsMaster is such a anime dad meanwhile their mom is so nice and caring 🤣. The writers deserve major props for making SportsMaster, who was basically a old D list villian from the 1940s era of comics prior to this show, to someone who is entertaining formidable and can hang with top tier villains like DeathStroke & Black Manta.

Zee

2023-11-02 16:52:54 +0000 UTC

Angel can scale/climb skyscrapers and then do the whole leap/super jump thing from the balcony you have literally seen this already many times ffs mickey no he doesn't need adjacent buildings

Macs

2023-11-02 16:52:38 +0000 UTC

#SundayRundown Young Justice: Yes, Deathstroke is Slade Wilson and Deadpool is Wade Wilson. Deadpool's creators were fans of Teen Titans comics (Deathstroke is a Teen Titans villain) and kinda just gave him similar weapons to Deathstroke. Realizing the similarities, they gave him the name Wade Wilson as an inside joke. Deadpool is more-or-less a parody of Deathstroke.

Jordan Malloy

2023-11-02 16:36:46 +0000 UTC

Same; I usually skip this on rewatches because...gah, but this couch made it a blast! P.S. Suraj, your "In the Soviet Union..." timing was PERFECT.

Ashleep

2023-11-02 16:30:11 +0000 UTC

I think the thing with Angel is, if he'd gotten there halfway and been unable to save them, sure, fair enough. He got there in time, made a pithy comment, locked the door and made sure none of them could get out and then joked about it when explaining what he'd done to the team. He's also ignoring the visions that Cordelia has that cause her a lot of pain and suffering to pursue the vendetta. Those last parts especially are what his team have an issue with. Angel flirting with the edge of darkness or becoming glib about human lives, even shitty human lives, is nothing any of them want to see. It goes against everything his mission is supposed to be and if he wants to change that, well again, fair enough but they're obviously gonna voice some opposition to it. He didn't even stop, wait around and kill D&D afterwards so his whole "i'll get them later" thing doesn't ring true either. They're going to still be free to kill randos after they get out. Good episode in general imo. The part where Angel swings through the fucking window like he's coming from a pirate movie always cracks me up, its so extra, just imagine him setting that up and making sure he's going through the right one and stuff.

Kongolor

2023-11-02 16:26:54 +0000 UTC

riley was in the wrong, doesn't mean buffy shouldn't fight for him thats what xander was trying to say, if you like him then fight for him, their is nothing wrong with anything xander said, as for riley, well I will forever be conflicted over riley

Macs

2023-11-02 16:23:26 +0000 UTC

I was dreading this episode of Buffy but y'all definitely made it worth it.

Calvin Allen

2023-11-02 16:18:30 +0000 UTC

no vampires can't get or transmit stds

Macs

2023-11-02 16:02:53 +0000 UTC

Oh man #sundayrundown Chris saying that this show has become the meme where you keep pulling back and revealing more and more snipers is the truest thing anyone has ever said ever

Ksweets

2023-11-02 15:48:14 +0000 UTC

I fully feel like Riley represented the "idea" of a normal relationship but with someone who knew Buffy's secret and that's (imo) what Buffy was running after in that final scene. it was like a last ditch effort to hold onto what she thought she wanted, the "normal" guy and not the "monster/bad boy" but maybe there's some truth to what spike said . . . And maybe some part of Buffy does secretly want the darker, more intense love. #Sundayrundown

ray s

2023-11-02 15:45:44 +0000 UTC

Buffy and Riley were incompatible, because of who each of them were. Riley wants to be needed, and he needs someone to be 100% emotionally open with him, but Buffy cannot be 100% emotionally open. Because of the things she’s seen, and has to do to protect the world Buffy bottles up her emotions. She feels as if she has to be strong all the time, and she can’t let herself break down because she has a job to do and if she breaks down she won’t be able to do it and people will get killed, but Riley can’t understand that. He can see that Buffy is going through a lot, but mistakenly feels like, partially because of Spike, the reason why Buffy isn’t opening up is because she doesn’t fully love him, but that’s not true, she just can’t allow herself to be fully emotionally vulnerable to anyone.

David Butt

2023-11-02 15:44:16 +0000 UTC

Ok good, I thought they accidentally uploaded the same episode but it’s just the title mixed up, not the vid

Diante Richard

2023-11-02 15:41:25 +0000 UTC

It comes to mind, that pretty much all of Riley’s worst moments stem from Buffy not being honest with him, and him feeling inadequate as a result. Not to blame her, she has valid reasons each time. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe she ever told him that she loves him back.

DarthCaedus

2023-11-02 15:40:55 +0000 UTC

I'll take that other side lol I think, personally, some people really struggle to see what's in front of them with their relationships, whether good or bad... And who better to lay it all out in front of you and ask you how you feel than your best friends? He says "IF that's the guy"... He's not telling her she's wrong... Just wants her to take a step back and look at the situation before she makes a decision she regrets. This is what friends are for. And honestly if this had been willow instead of Xander, I think a lot of ppl would've had less of a problem with it.

Bisibia

2023-11-02 15:40:54 +0000 UTC

Well this YJ episode was when one problem was finally taken care of, Kaldur's fixed mind and getting Miss Martian out of there while still maintaining their cover. All it took was some unexpected help from Sportsmaster and Cheshire. Also Nightwing discovered what happened to the others, it was BLUE BEETLE!!!

Brandon Gibbs

2023-11-02 15:31:54 +0000 UTC

The Kitkat bar title for yj 2x16 was for last ep

Michael Jefferson

2023-11-02 15:21:24 +0000 UTC

They really should watch Passion of the Nerd's take on the episode. I don't think there are spoilers but I don't remember

Lisa Lewis

2023-11-02 15:07:08 +0000 UTC

Best Angel episode in a minute! Angel shows he isn’t Batman like we all thought This Buffy episode made people hate Xander after his BS speech (the fanbase is split on him but I think he’s still great), the show frames it like she’s in the wrong and she’s the one who RUNS AFTER RILEY Wtf

space colon

2023-11-02 15:04:51 +0000 UTC

[Premium Access + Uncut] Links of the Day!

Comments

good point! But he could have been more clear but he was just too scared to face the music

Yeah I think they are too excited 😂😂 but still, self control people

Calm down, Pajander, they're all over this thread. Stop pouting for one minute and you'll see them

it's not about being fictional, it's the issue that if you think that is okay, you will probably be gaslit in your own relationship.

All i can say about this comment is: facts are facts. Well said. Especially the first paragraph.

Lol

I haven't seen anyone say that they wanted that relationship to continue or that it was a healthy relationship. But I guess it's important to feel morally superior about a two decades old fictional relationship.

"some people" you mean near everybody. "The Wish," "The Prom," "Buffy vs Dracula" to name a few are universally loved. I don't know why you have so much hatred for her lol it's bizarre

??

#SundayRundown thank you all for recognizing Riley's toxic and manipulative behavior. The commenters who are disagreeing with you have no clue what a healthy relationship is

He addresses them yes, but those are his views and opinions on it, not fact, and we are entitled to our opinions and views. You are trying to prove us wrong when no one in this debate is wrong, we just have different views

Y'all still haven't watched the video. All those arguments you're making get addressed.

Well articulated the viewpoint. I agree with almost all of it.

Marti Noxon is one of the worst things to ever happen to this show, IMHO. Though I understand why some people feel different.

Honestly, I don't understand why some people feel the need/desire to spoil these shows. It's unbelievably aggravating. Just let them experience it in their own way, with no foreknowledge about characters, events or story beats. It's really not that hard.

Personally, I didn't really like that screen junkies Honest Trailer. I didn't find it to be very funny and I thought it was very negative in regards to the quality of the show. They clearly are not Buffy fans.

Hey now, I still ship spike and buffy, me pointing out Riley had some points her does not mean I prefer him iver spike or angel lol

Late Woooo but still somber buffy thursday with riley exit, darla with soul exit and finaly getting the begining of Dark Angel, a very dark angel indeed, at least angelus is more entertaining. but at least got slight return for aqualad so yea good week

I actually think his take is full of biases and he misses many things about Riley's point of view

He did tell her that he wants them to take care of each other and buffy seem to agree on that.

He communicated in 5x5 what he wanted from buffy (instead of you taking care of me how about we agree to take care of each other is his exact words to which buffy seem to agree) and ironically she communicated in 5x2 that she wanted to be taken care of like dawn was.

This video essay demonstrates how wrong you are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Khr0UYM9a8

I would imagine it's because he does not want to kill humans with his own hands in the process of that. Shutting the door and locking it in his clouded mind means that dru and Darla are the ones actually killing the lawyers.

You people are wild. It was a series of repeated, deliberate mistakes. And it was cheating, being angry about it isn't being "puritanical" about sex.

mickey take a breath bro

So if I'm getting this right, the women think cheating is less bad if there's emotion and passion and attraction involved.

Well, to me it's glaringly obvious it was written (and directed) by Noxon, because she's the one that does this sort of straight-faced melodrama. Whedon is a piece of shit but he would've written this differently.

Maybe it's Whedon's toxicity coming through in the character beats, but he would have written that very differently. That soap opera melodrama is Noxon's style and it works better in some of her other episodes.

Ugh, the next episode is the worst of S5. Just stupid. Luckily, after that it's all great eps thru the season finale.

I never knew they were so incredibly puritanical and judgmental about sex. Some of them are shipping Buffy and Spike, a man who has killed people, including children probably, and SA'ed women in his day. But Riley's suck jobs when he's in major pain is somehow an unforgivable step too far??

The plan without spoiling it from W&H is to keep him distracted and off his right path

fr Season 5 Riley was just a drain to the Scoobies

You know the Jeremy Clarkson "oh no! Anyway" meme? Yeah that was my reaction when Riley left. Finally the season (and the show) can now get better with him gone. And i'm not even a Riley hater, i didn't mind him in S4. But he SUCKS in S5. Good riddance lol

Buffy - Yes, Riley blew it. Great post reaction. Angel - Yay! Dru is back! No post reaction. And it wasn't fun to watch Chris fall asleep before he went out 'pooping'. Seriously, Chris really needs to get his shit back.

Seems to me the gang missed a few of the story beats in the Riley/Buffy arc this season.

Rewatching it with the Normies made me change my opinion of the episode. It's a really bad episode and felt like a soap opera. Their reaction to this episode had me laughing many times.

If you guys think this episode of young justice was like that meme with the snipers, just wait until the second to last episode lol

It's implied that Spike was the only one who knew: none of the Scoobies mention the hospital visit or allude to it in any way until she calls them from the hospital, *after* she tells Riley.

Keep in mind that Buffy was 16/17 at that time when she was with Angel. She has grown up since then and out of it and we very rarely now see her fall back into that vulnerability she had when she was a teen and with Angel.

And what pissed me off that he didnt even turn his head in that helicopter once?? look out that gdamn window? how much did he really love her....

addiction is addiction. if you can have compassion for a crackhead you can have compassion for a ho. dont be a hypocrite #fairness

Dark Angel has entered the chat

yall really letting one mistake color riley's entire personality and history??????? YIKES...............

"To make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs." Then why didn't he set the building on fire to make sure they were dead, and take out Darla and Dru at the same time? "Breaking the eggs" was his entire point here, the omelette was incidental.

Agree with Marketta, stop spoiling characters. Hindsight is 20/20. Let them enjoy the journey of each character. Stop semi-spoiling it.

Poor Buffy, but enjoyed her 'dark' side. She let that vampire junkie have it. Agree with most on the Riley thing

Sunday rundown: The fight between Sportsmaster and Black Manta was good and the weapon sports master used is called a Meteor Hammer if you ever watched kill bill they used that weapon in the boss fight also in the DC show stargirl you can see live action version of Sportsmaster

#Sundayrundown #YoungJustice I am offended on behalf of Chris and Teen Titans. There were soooo many fights on that show. This is why I have an irrational dislike of Teen Titans Go.

@Macs Riley has shown himself to be a bad communicator, willing to resort to sh and blames Buffy for everything that’s happened to him He’s incredibly toxic and codependent, he shouldn’t be in any kind of relationship rn he needs help

Oh for sure lol that’s often their response

Anya is the cool aunt.

sportsmaster is literally the best character

Space i think Riley did try a few times and was rejected "I know you have a lot on your mind, you want to let me in on any of that, gimme a call. I'll come running".

The normies are very much in favor of murder as long as it's ppl they don't like lmao this has been a thing for them forever. Cordy even said it "when? After they finish off all the ppl you don't like!?" The normies whole crew would totally do the same thing

Yeah Wesley, Cordy and Gunn thought they were helping Batman but when Batman starts killing people they were hurt and shocked

I hear you and agree about Buffy not being honest and at the same time he wasn’t honest with her about how he felt He didn’t communicate with her or try to get help and instead turned to what he turned to and blamed her Xander should have been giving RILEY the big “wake up” speech

Yeah! He’d be a great guest on either of the pods also He deconstructed the episode and the whole toxic dynamic is such a nuanced and sensitive way

I think you are wrong. Buffy can be vulnerable. She has done it with angel and that is why it is so hurtful to Riley that she can't do it with him. There is a difference between not being able to and only doing it the love of your life.

Even if she did write the script he assigned different parts to people. he would have final say on the major character beats and plot points and this is a major one.

its not about W&H, its about Angel he just let a bunch of fairly awful people die, but still people, its not about the pieces of shit that died, its that Angel let it happen, it is not a hero moment its a FUCK YOU DIE, which however justified is still wrong, he could've saved them he chose not to.

Xander just told Buffy that because he loves Riley

I thought Marti Noxon took credit for the Xander speech. And not just she wrote the episode. She said she specifically wrote that part. But I can't find any sources on that so I'm not sure. If anyone knows let me know

As someone who has chased after the idea of who I wanted an ex to be, I wish I could just tell her to STOP!

"why is she so strong?" "is this the same demon" holy fucking shit did Chris finally get it?

@Kongolor he wanted to kill the entire w&h team from the start, D&D gave him the excuse, thats it, also Angel making an entrance is his thing its lampshaded by eve much later

Angel can scale/climb skyscrapers and then do the whole leap/super jump thing from the balcony you have literally seen this already many times ffs mickey no he doesn't need adjacent buildings

Same; I usually skip this on rewatches because...gah, but this couch made it a blast! P.S. Suraj, your "In the Soviet Union..." timing was PERFECT.

riley was in the wrong, doesn't mean buffy shouldn't fight for him thats what xander was trying to say, if you like him then fight for him, their is nothing wrong with anything xander said, as for riley, well I will forever be conflicted over riley

I was dreading this episode of Buffy but y'all definitely made it worth it.

no vampires can't get or transmit stds

Oh man #sundayrundown Chris saying that this show has become the meme where you keep pulling back and revealing more and more snipers is the truest thing anyone has ever said ever

Ok good, I thought they accidentally uploaded the same episode but it’s just the title mixed up, not the vid

It comes to mind, that pretty much all of Riley’s worst moments stem from Buffy not being honest with him, and him feeling inadequate as a result. Not to blame her, she has valid reasons each time. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe she ever told him that she loves him back.

The Kitkat bar title for yj 2x16 was for last ep

They really should watch Passion of the Nerd's take on the episode. I don't think there are spoilers but I don't remember

Best Angel episode in a minute! Angel shows he isn’t Batman like we all thought This Buffy episode made people hate Xander after his BS speech (the fanbase is split on him but I think he’s still great), the show frames it like she’s in the wrong and she’s the one who RUNS AFTER RILEY Wtf

More Creators

It's implied that Spike was the only one who knew: none of the Scoobies mention the hospital visit or allude to it in any way until she calls them from the hospital, after she tells Riley.