Episode 492 - Shambleau

Did any of those other Northwest Smith stories turn out to be worthy of another episode?

I’m late to the comment party, but I only just saw this on Twitter- Moore’s own drawing of a Shambleau: https://twitter.com/JohnsonJeffro/status/1252923436827107328?s=20

Dirck de Lint

I feel there's a lot buried in the name 'Shambleau' that encompasses aspects of the being. The story suggests the name is vaguely French, and carries something of that French sensuality to it, the ending suggesting 'beau' - but it also hints at trickery with 'sham', with something that 'shambles' inhumanly? Or perhaps causes revulsion in making you go 'bleaugh' ;-) There's certainly something around Kristevan abjection in the tale, from the revulsion the crowd evidence when Smith 'claims' Shambleau to the description as Shambleau 'embraces' Smith - something that is repulsive, other, but as the boundaries between ‘self’ and ‘other’ break down, a perverse attraction and subjective horror.

In my attempts to find another format in which to read this story, I ended up spoiling the ending for myself. Because of this, I didn't really catch the lynching angle. Instead, it felt more like this story started just as another story was ending-- Shambleau was discovered, and was being pursued by villagers with torches and pitchforks. Dario Argento did something similar with his Masters of Horror episode "Jennifer."

Exactly, I think that's why the story works much better than it normally would. The Shambleau's effect is not just some weird sexy-times kink; there's another horrible layer behind it that whispers of knowledge beyond that of any mortal. It makes the whole story much more interesting as well; is the Shambleau really 'evil'? Maybe this is just how she interacts with other sapient races?

Scott Morrison

The theme of "the lynch mob was right" is a pretty horrifying thing for a writer to put into a story, especially a white writer in the 30s. That being said, I did put on my thinking cap, and I was able to come up with one lynch mob that did the right thing: the folks who killed Mussolini. Shame they didn't do it 20 years earlier.

Andrew M. Reichart

Have you read Octavia Butler's "Parable of the Sower"? It's been a while since I read it, but there was a lot made of the 'we only help our own' and enclave-culture. The main character has hyper-empathy as well, so the tension between her situation and her culture is interesting. Actually, now that I think about it - that story had a lot of discussion on racism, environmental change leading to catastrophe, refugees.... yikes....

I think there was another, much more Lovecraftian element to the Shambleau's attraction that goes beyond mere sensuality. Yarol hints at it when expositing on Shambleaus to Northwest, he says "Wouldn't the records of that race of- of *things* be worth reading! Records of other planets, other ages, and all the beginnings of mankind." He then dismisses the possibility that they've kept any records, but Smith reveals that when he was being attacked by the Shambleau, he was being absorbed into its consciousness, and through its memories viewed the very things ("I saw things - and knew things - horrible, wild things I can't quite remember - visited unspeakable places, looked backward through the memory of that... creature) that which Yarol was just lamenting he would likely never see. I think that's also what the Shambleau means when it tells Smith they will converse in its own language - through this hive mind absorption, it will share with him all that it is, and in turn absorb all that he is. Decades before Michael Shea was trying to do the same thing (with less success, I think) we have someone gazing into the mind of an Elder Being as a kind of drug.

Stewart Huntsman

I kept thinking this was an episode of Thrilling Adventure Hour, I'm surprised Sparks Nevada took so long to resolve the situation.

Jason Denen

Oh my god, I was randomly listening to a comments show from last year, and the topic of swearing on the podcast came up. To which Chad comically says, “Fuck you.” And I was pleasantly taken aback. You gentlemen should swear more freely. Surely we’re all adults here. Plus some well-timed cursing can be a great way to enhance your already-wonderful comedy, and add a touch of human connection. Just some thoughts from a long-time listener.

Devin Trim

I feel like the theme ‘you try to help someone but then it’s bad’ can be a really strong foundation for a horror work- You’re trying to do what society always tells you is ‘good’ and ‘right’ and ‘brave’, but opening yourself up to con artists, sociopaths and Draculas in the process. I think a smart horror story would go to the effort of contrasting the other extreme: a society so traumatized by this that no one helps anyone ever, and the horror of being caught in THAT situation. That could temper the implied lesson of “you help people, you get Medusa’d”. Plus, you get the bonus horror of it being a situation with no right answer! Ha ha, reality is terrifying! That said, I agree that this story leans more on the sexy savior trope than anything I just described. It was going for something else.

Interesting. From the context, I would have said that the Venusian partner is no more 'degenerate' than the Earth-man protagonist. He certainly has more knowledge than the supposedly 'superior' Smith, and imparts some of that knowledge to him...after he's saved the Earth-man's bacon, of course.

Scott Morrison

I found the depiction of the Venusian sidekick interesting. It's a complete parallel to the "wise native" characters you see in works like Howard's Solomon Kane or (again as per my previous comment) King Solomon's Mines and other Victorian/Edwardian colonial fiction. He is clearly less than the normative protagonist though he may have his own noble aspects. in Howard and Haggard you get outright noble savages which the Venusian isn't- though he's still cast as a fallen angel (again with the implication of decline). He draws on ancient knowledge to help the protagonist who is ironically undone by his red-blooded Manliness (insert panther imagery here) which befits his strong-thewed Aryan ancestry. There are interesting ways in which this has developed in the modern alt-right but maybe I'll edit that in later.

Exactly, it's the same trap that Erich Von Daniken fell into with his 'Chariots of the Gods' nonsense. It's always the brown people who need alien help to achieve their feats of architecture, never the Greeks.

Scott Morrison

Totally tangential, but a good point to make I think- Besides disregarding human imagination, it's important to note that Ancient Aliens theories often disregard the abilities of people of colour- it's very seldom the Greeks and Romans who are shown as being influenced in such a way, it's the Egyptians or the Olmecs, because the subtextual assumption is that there's no way these degraded peoples could have built these things themselves. It's very much a development of the King Solomon's Mine-esque Victorian theories of sites like Great Zimbabwe being built by Phoenicians or Israelites (nb I love King Solomon's Mines but we do need to be aware of its baggage).

Certainly it was the most disturbing ST:TOS monster, at least when I was but a wee lad. It was all because of that *mouth*....

Scott Morrison

The creature in this somewhat reminds me of the M-113 Creature, or the "Salt Vampire", as it's commonly known as in the Star Trek TOS episode "The Man Trap". Although not a medusa, it is the last of it's species and uses telepathic illusions to hunt its prey for the salt it needs to survive, also using some sort of supposed hypnotic or paralyzing power to keep its prey still as it closed in. It takes the form of a former lover of Doctor McCoy's, and enthralls him for much of the episode. Probably my favourite Original Series rubber suit monster.

Lee Russell

Kanye is a big CL Moore fan. Now I understand his choice in baby names.

...yeeeah, it is related to as-seen-on-TV sketchy consumer products! That C.L. Moore sure had quite the prophetic vision. Yep yep yep...

Scott Morrison

Haven't listened yet. Will be very disappointed if this is not somehow related to "ShamWOW".

In my opinion this story captures much better the 'simultaneous ecstasy and horror' that A. Merritt tried to describe in 'The Moon Pool'. In Merritt's story we never get a first-hand viewpoint of what it's like to be captured and transformed by the entity. Here, Moore explicitly ties the Shambleau's feeding to sex and/or sensuality, giving it that extra spicy kick that's missing from 'The Moon Pool'.

Scott Morrison

Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!

Scott Morrison

Given the recent discussion, I'm surprised tentacle-porn didn't, er, come up in this episode.

I agree with Chris on this, the message is dubious. I love Moore’s use of language, it elevates the story above mere pulp. Never thought it as a vampyr story. Next weeks story I’m not looking forward to, if it’s the story I think it is, it has...problems.

Nadia Astorga

For anyone who enjoys Northwest or Jirel, I recommend the novellas Gorel & the Pot Bellied God, and the Black Gods Kiss by Lavie Tidhar. It's six guns and sorcery.

Steve

I could have sworn the podcraft already covered 'Shambleau'. I feel like I'm going mad. (Which is appropriate, I suppose.)

That is so cool! I also thought it was a Heinlein shout-out. Pretty neat that he came up with such awesome lyrics to properly go with the song title.

Scott Morrison

Holding out hope for a steady stream of Eric Carmen and/or Merle Haggard riffs next week.

Paul Freelend

I read the moment where Smith whistles a tune called "The Green Hills of Earth" and thought, "Oh, cool, Heinlein reference," only to be put wise by a Tor.com "Lovecraft Reread" entry (https://www.tor.com/2016/02/17/not-sublimated-not-fading-to-black-c-l-moores-shambleau/): Robert A. Heinlein's "The Green Hills of Earth" came 14 years after "Shambleau", so if anything it was Admiral Bob doing a C.L. Moore shoutout.

Should have turned her over to Sparks Nevada - Marshall on Mars.

"He has a dream about something wrapping around his neck, and it's super awful but also super hot." Another podcast I listen to coined their own term for that fetish. They call it "choke-jerking." For instance, poor David Carradine died via choke-jerking.

Mandy Reznor (She_It)

Ooohh, oh oh oh! "The Girl With the Hungry Eyes" next week! I am *excited!*

Mandy Reznor (She_It)