Of Mice and Men
Added 2024-09-08 06:58:01 +0000 UTCSo I’ve been thinking.
When I first dreamed up Fuzzbutts, I was firm on the rule that all animal species were fully sapient, save for fish and bugs. I didn’t want a Mickey Mouse situation where he has Goofy the dog as a friend, but Pluto the dog is Mickey’s non-sapient pet who walks on a leash and eats out of a bowl. That’s always felt really weird to me, and I didn’t want any of it in FB. Furthermore, a major theme in FB is superficiality and artificiality. The expectations the characters are expected to live up to are constructed, their social hierarchies are constructed, even the food is constructed, reconstituted protein slurries made of bugs or soy, or questionable meat grown in labs from animal cells. FB is meant to be cute, colorful, and at times, very off-putting.
Lately though I’ve started to wonder if I might be missing out on something by having regular animals exist. I realized my issue with the Pluto the dog problem is not that both sapient and non-sapient canines exist, but that Pluto is a knobbly freak beast and I hate him. I’m so sorry Pluto stans but I hate his character design and wish him great violence.
Having regular animals exist instantly answers the question of what all these carnivore folk have been eating in the hundreds of thousands of years before the industrial age and advent of processed foods. The world now has a source of historically helpful animal byproducts- leather, fertilizer, wool, fur, milk, eggs, lard, dairy, etc. And, most importantly, we can explore the running social controversy regarding the consumption of meat. Would it distress a Deer-person to see their predator friend shoot and butcher a regular deer? Are Pigs seen as cannibals when they eat bacon, porkchops, and ham hocks? Is it odd to keep your non-sapient animal counterpart as a pet? Does a Horse feel stupid riding a horse? Do our furry folk sometimes feel unnerved around their regular counterparts, the way humans may find apes and unsettling or creepy?
I’m not 100% committed to this idea just yet. In any case I’d probably avoid depicting regular animals that would really raise eyebrows, such as pet dogs and cats, or apes and monkeys. You won’t ever see, say, Sunny walking a dog on a leash. Though you might see Skye walking Sunny on a leash. Anyway, I’d love to hear everybody’s thoughts on this! :3 What do you all think of having (regular) animals in FB?
Comments
Worse comes to worse you can go the bojack horseman route
Morghann Patterson
2024-09-24 15:02:27 +0000 UTCsomebody may have mentioned this but you came up with a concept once that "pets" in fb were like marine creatures that evolved to breath/walk on land but still not at the same intelligence as the sapient creatures - puppy guppies or something like that? I was a big fan of that idea! with Katie doing her fish-walking (?) gig
Marcy
2024-09-09 18:56:11 +0000 UTCYou could try the Khajiit approach, where in the Elder Scrolls, a Khajiit can range from an anthro cat person to a regular human with cat ears and a cat tail, to a straight up house cat. In the Elder Scrolls, a Khajiit's appearance comes down to which moon sign it was born under or something like that (I've only played Skyrim). There's a magical element to explain it. I'd say it's always worth exploring new story elements, workshopping new ideas and all that. Get weird with it. Have fun. Make people uncomfortable.
Scorp
2024-09-09 14:15:30 +0000 UTCI think it would make sense for some normal animals to exist, emphasis on “some”. Many animals exist because they were engineered (bred over the course of time and domesticated alongside humans). Chickens and cows make perfect sense, but sheep? Presumably there were plenty of sheep people who could produce wool and make a good penny off of it, so why would they have engineered what we recognize in our own world? Why would so many animals reach sapients and yet have normal animal counterparts? It begs more questions and breaks submersion. At the same time, those who remain as normal animals can indeed prompt interesting aspects of the culture. Pigs are notorious cannibals, so maintaining the pig species for agriculture makes sense— and yet the implications of this on their society are weighty.
Alight
2024-09-09 01:30:07 +0000 UTCAnd this is another reason why I'm still following you Lopoddity. World building and stuff. Keep evolving!
Nette Marie
2024-09-09 00:28:16 +0000 UTCYour world but it feels weird to have them included. There's room for a more creative solution I'm sure. Like... Did humans actually mutate/design these new sapient people? Perhaps they altered their protein requirements. Or maybe giant bugs that can produce leather and meat have always been normal in this world. Though to be honest, I haven't wondered about the what the carnivorous breeds ate anyway. Sometimes the absence of information isn't a bad thing.
Brittany Beard
2024-09-08 20:57:54 +0000 UTCAlso I’m from Sweden so sorry for my bad English. I hope you understand 😅
Toadboss Ida
2024-09-08 18:48:36 +0000 UTCI want to see har the FB world have Done with bugs! During the time the sampient animals evolved bugs may have evolved with them. Bigger breeds for meat concumption, bigger moths for silk, flashy evolved bug pets (and ofc also fish evolved in similar way) i think you should be carefull to blend the sampient and non samplent animals too much and instead play with the thought about how some fish and bug species may have coevolved with the sampient ones as cattle and pets. Also maybe animal protection movements against inhumane breeding facilities for moths or too crowded salmon ponds on the meat fabrics. I can really visualise it in your kind of world XD
Toadboss Ida
2024-09-08 18:47:46 +0000 UTCNo, dude, that's a really fair point. One of the reasons I made the fake/lab-grown meat industry in FB sketchy as hell is because I find the irl meat/egg/dairy industry extremely exploitative and vile. Perhaps adding regular animals does introduce a convenient solution to the food problem, but it also brings in the problems inherent to that convenience, with our furryfolk taking the human route and exploiting living creatures simply because they view the lives of non-sophonts as having less value than their own.
Lopoddity
2024-09-08 17:51:49 +0000 UTCSorry, one more thought: you know how in the movie Midsommar, the cultists kill off any member who reaches the age of 75? You know how carnivores in the real world mostly predate on sick, elderly, or weak young animals? Imagine if that had been socially acceptable in history or in different animal cultures (elk villagers self-selecting for more robust members of their population, also sustaining a population of lower-status wolves?)... we could get weirder, we could get worse!
Mastodon
2024-09-08 17:48:43 +0000 UTCI wasn’t sure if the dog-like fish and cat-like insects were technically “canon” or not, since we’ve only seen the fish-dogs in one piece of concept art, and I think the insect-cats were only talked about as an idea in comments, so that’s fun to know! It’s cool that you are still keeping a lot of these quirky worldbuilding elements, I’d love to see some art exploring some of the more fantastical environments and technologies in this universe. Maybe you can use Cass and Katie as a means to showcase some of the aquatic-based environments and technologies? (I guess this kinda doubles as a request now, since you asked for those in your previous post, oops!) Oh, I loved Tuca and Bertie for SO many reasons, thanks for reminding me of its existence! You make a good point, the silliness in that show never took away from the very grounded and serious stories it was trying to tell. I still have no idea how the writers and artists managed to pull that off so flawlessly. I’m still bummed out that it got cancelled again. Sizing up insects and fish, maybe adding a few fantastical twists here and there, and adding them to the world as pets, livestock, and wild animals seems like a good way to make the world less empty. I don’t know how far you want to go down the speculative evolution route, but I don’t think you need to get real technical and scientific about it if you don’t want too. If people can rationalize the logic of a dog walking on two legs, wearing clothes, and having anatomy that closely mirrors a human being, then I think they can get behind the concept of a giant beetle that mirrors the ecological niche of say, a wild boar or something. I also remember concept art of you trying to figure out how snakes would work in Fuzzbutts. I don’t know how you’d feel about this, but would snakes not being sapient be something that’d interest you? Since you kind of have an exception in the opposite direction going on with Katie. Maybe being limbless is one of those weird categories that could help determine whether or not a creature has human-like intelligence? Maybe there are a few nonsapient reptilian creatures running around in your world, that are either snakes, or resemble some real-world extinct fauna that look nothing like the anthros in Fuzzbutts, which would kinda help eliminate the uncanny valley-ness of it all.
FloweryFruitFangs
2024-09-08 17:46:35 +0000 UTCMy preference leans towards not having "regular" animals in the FB world. Since we already draw so many artificial lines between humans and non-humans. Having anthro animals and "regular" animals side by side always struck me as "I want to use the beauty and the personality we project onto other species for my OCs, but I also don't want to mess with the hierarchy where we define non-human animals as beneath us". Hope that doesn't sound too harsh. I'm just pretty horrified by how much humans exploit animals and therefore sensitive when it comes to how non-human animals are depicted. What I like about FB is that I get to see cute/weird/pretty/queer/colourful/etc. animal people that are struggling with relatable problems.
Haselwoelfchen
2024-09-08 17:28:45 +0000 UTCAs others have said, this is ultimately your decision. My two cents, you've created a very fun and very thought provoking universe and I think you've been able to do that by trusting your instincts and own storytelling capabilities. Whatever you decide, I'm sure it'll be just as compelling and interesting as anything you've put out. I'll most certainly still click on your updates with breakneck speed.
mailebird
2024-09-08 17:28:41 +0000 UTCHmm, I think I prefer to keep regular animals out of Fuzzbutts. I see what other people are saying about an environment feeling "empty" without nonsapient animals, but my thought is that it's still full, just that all the animals are smart! I think the workarounds you've developed for the meat industry are really unique and give the Fuzzbutts world a special flavor that would be lost if it turns out there are regular animals that can be farmed/hunted/etc., and make it feel more like the characters are humans in animal costumes. As for the "problem" of what carnivores were eating before pre-industrial society... I think having that *be* a problem and letting it be an uncomfortable factor could also be really interesting! Were carnivore populations a lot smaller before meat alternatives were available, simply because they couldn't sustain themselves in large numbers? Were there legal arrangements that allowed carnivores access to meat in socially sanctioned ways, like through funerary practices or primitive medical care (aw shucks, it's a shame you lost your leg, farmer Sheep. Wolf doctor will make sure it won't go to waste!)? Were carnivores shunned and reviled even more than before, are there religions that sanctify the act of predation, are there old-fashioned carnivore societies that reject meat eating in favor of bug and bean proteins? That's just some stuff I came up with off the top of my head, but the way a world functions doesn't have to make complete sense to be compelling and intriguing (the book "Sick Societies" has so many good examples of populations that are unsustainable, have detrimental cultural norms, or are built on weird assumptions, if you want to check out some real-world research). It's definitely your decision, but that's my two cents!
Mastodon
2024-09-08 17:26:08 +0000 UTCAlso, if you explore the idea and decide you don't ultimately vibe with it, or it makes the story too complicated/distracts from its original focus, there's always the power of retcon! I legit learned that power from you! I always thought whatever I drew or established about my drawings was permanent; no take-backsies. Then I saw your artwork with re-vamped Oddball with the description "Yeah, I decided to make him Pandora's and Cupcake's son, so I'm retconing the '1,000 years later' storyline", and for 18-19 year-old me that was a game changer! So do as you wish, explore what you like, and in the end if you don't like it do away with it!
Your_Gym_Partner
2024-09-08 17:05:45 +0000 UTCI trust your ability to make something great, whichever direction you go in, though I think adding regular animals in would feel like trying to answer a question basically no one was asking. I haven't found myself sitting here wondering 'but what were the carnivores eating?' because that hasn't been what the story's about, and you're a good enough storyteller that I don't get stuck on those irrelevant side paths.
Elsa
2024-09-08 16:46:53 +0000 UTCI honestly think it'd be great! Not only can it be a source of humor, but it can also be a source of existential quandary and dread! Sure, we see monkeys as funny little creatures, but then we stop and observe them doing something so similar to how we do things and it reminds us that we are but a hair's breadth away from being one and the same. And yeah, it would also resolve the issue of "How have carnivores been ethically consuming meat for thousands of years before the invention of artificial meat". Now that I think of it, too, having non-sapient animals in the FB world could also lead to more ✨️drama✨️. Think about it: characters comparing the attributes of an individual to their non-sapient counterpart as a form of degradation ("Wow, you hiss and spit more than my pet cat; and here I thought you were evolved"); religions (cults) formed around the idea that animals were never meant to evolve, and instead should return to their "natural roots"; characters dating animals that they have the non-sapient version of as a pet, really making their partner think "Do you see me as a person, or as a socially-accepted datable version of your parakeet". The possibilities are endless! So, Tl;dr: GO FOR IT!
Your_Gym_Partner
2024-09-08 16:38:15 +0000 UTCUltimately I will respect your decision either way since it's your world, but I'd cast my vote in with those saying it would edge things a little into more uncanny territory for me personally. I really enjoy the direction you've taken your worldbuilding in up to this point and haven't found myself feeling like things are 'missing,' per se. For a potential middle ground, you might consider having a Few animal species that just. Never evolved the same way we see the majority of the world to have done/remain as animals and don't have any furfolk counterparts? You could still have cows or sheep as livestock, and interesting moral quandaries about "How genetically distinct even are we from these guys/is it okay for us to use these animal products if we're animals ourselves," but subvert the more. direct uncanniness of having a Goofy and Pluto situation, with both sapient and non-sapient versions of the same animal. I'm also a huge fan of thinking of bugs/fish as standins for livestock in this world though. I'm torn, because on one hand I doooon't really like beastars-style animal stories that are so focused on the lingering fear of killing/being eaten. there are so many more interesting ways to explore animals trying to live in society together- like things you have explored, problems of size, interspecies relationships, and so forth- than the question of "but do predator animals wrestle with the desire to eat their sapient neighbors?" But I /also/ have really enjoyed the way you've developed things like the meat/food industries in fuzzbutts, which is unnerving but in more of a. social commentary way than a horror/Eating People kind of way. I hope this is making sense- and reiterate that I'll still enjoy and engage with your content either way.
knickknacks
2024-09-08 16:34:41 +0000 UTCWhat I do in my anthro/furry worlds is make the feral “animals” a whole different creature. Like, the “cow” equivalent is a made up creature or the “pet animal” equivalent is a little fluffy fuzzball like thing. Kind of similar to what Neopets or Legend of Zelda does. (Yes, I know there are feral birds next to Rito and feral fish next to Zora but theres lore implications there. Plus, birds of prey and all) Some series though kind of just have the “it’s a fictional world” rule Where you just don’t think about it at all. Some are humanoid, and the others are wild animals. Sometimes they just make all the food use only fish meat or veggies only (like MLP or animal crossing) and sometimes they have the bears eat burritos (We bare bears, sonic the hedgehog). It’s all up to how you want your world to work at the end of the day.
PrincessMuffinArt
2024-09-08 16:16:20 +0000 UTCThis is honestly really cute. I need to see silly pet pictures now. I can imagine someone like Perry having something totally out of pocket like a huge monitor lizard and treating it like a little baby lol
nighthawk0913
2024-09-08 15:57:10 +0000 UTCidk, I've always been a fan of when animal worlds have livestock like cow sized bugs and that kind of thing. I def agree with the idea that the world feels weirdly empty w/o, well, animals, so I guess I'd be interested to see where it goes?? if a little unsettled/skeptical just bc it raises so many weird questions that aren't always the fun kind of weird questions
Antanas
2024-09-08 15:54:19 +0000 UTCYeah sorry Disney. I never liked Pluto either. If you want to do furryfolk alongside actually animals I would personally draw a line in the sand and say certain animals evolved and certain ones didn't for whatever reason. Maybe farm animals didn't evolve along side dogs. If you want to do the animals alongside furryfolk I think it could work if it's a few select species cause I feel like having all of them might be off putting. I also don't think you need to actually answer questions about how the environment works if you don't want to. Like sometimes you just gotta be like "magic exists and idk how it works." Cause it's not really important to the story. If you're aiming for FB to be a comedy it could really work cause people tend to ignore weird world rules for a joke. One of my favorite jokes in Bojack Horseman is that birds can fly by flapping their arms. It cracks me up every time I see it.
forthehonor-ofgayskull
2024-09-08 15:44:54 +0000 UTCUltimately I’m in the, it’s your world you should absolutely explore what you want and think is most interesting and fun to worldbuilding. I personally like what you’ve got going on. I like the, restrictions lead to creativity kinda solution philosophy. I like the tension of where do resources come from. Other animals definitely would be helpful in many degrees. I do agree the wildlife situation is weird without them. You could always go the ATLA route and make the “feral” animals all like hybrid things and all the furry folk are “regular” animals. Like Sunny could have a pet bear-dog but he is a dog. You could even add like griffons in like terms of parakeet-housecat or something. I love your worlds and story-building and like someone else said, no harm in exploring and seeing if you like it or not!
TheTabbyBadger
2024-09-08 15:36:33 +0000 UTCi'll throw in my 2 cents on one aspect of this: there's a few people bring up the question of "why are some versions of animals sophonts and others not?". i think the answer to this would be the same as it is IRL: "that's just how it worked out" evolution doesn't have intentions or goals; things just happen, and if it isn't detrimental to the species as a collective, the change sticks around. in the same vein, if a species isn't pressured to change significantly, it won't. in the same way that we exist alongside apes, dogs evolving higher cognition on it's own doesn't immediately necessitate that all dogs follow suit. i think part of the reason for this question being brought up is because all of the sophont species in FB are different, not just 1 species with a ton of variation like humans, and we aren't used to that. IRL we're the only thing that's like us. but it wasn't always like that! neanderthals only went extinct 40,000 years ago. denisovans went extinct as late as 25,000 years ago. both of these species existed for longer than recorded human history; if they had been able to adapt to global change the way H. sapiens did, they might have made it to the modern day along with us. 3 intelligent Homo species! humans are really weird, but that shouldn't prevent stories from also being weird.
voidwizard
2024-09-08 15:30:36 +0000 UTCI guess my main question with this would be, how does the presence of definitive separate animal-animals mesh with the implications that there used to be humans? Between Mimi's research and the presence of a dog religion that worships "the Master", I always got the feeling that fuzzbutts was a sort of guardians of ga'hoole-esque post-human world where animals evolved full sapience and replaced them. I could be reading too much into this, and these are all just jokes and not actual indicators that humans used to exist, and if so then I retract this argument.
pitviperofdoom
2024-09-08 15:27:09 +0000 UTCOh another thing that would be curious is that even if there's non sapiens animals to eat, there's still the alternative, like in our world there vegetarian meat 🍖 and another way to consume protein, like maybe things for animals protection and humanity treatment is even stronger, because... Well, the meat industry isn't exactly the most ethical when they have to process the meat, or the animal traffic, or it's just a messy like our world 😅 Also that reminds me to this thing in this anime Dungeon Meshi one character say something like "why people make exemption with cute animals/monster? They are still wild animals/monster" And for example how people treat aggressive tiny dogs like "oh it's just a cutie" but they don't discipline their dogs but oh the big sweet pitbull with training is the danger? Black cats are bad luck? crow mean death? Bats are pest? Or how there's more dead in Africa cuz hippo that a lion? Many zookeepers would tell you that the most dangerous animals to work are the most herbivores and the tiny animals. How the herbivores are MORE aggressive and dangerous but people turn the eye cuz cute and don't eat meat? Oh but that's the thing, almost no animal is exclusive herbivore, so many eat meat, because calories and opportunity, you don waste food when you have it. Can you imagine the scenario of a rabbit infestation that was the result of people killing to many fox/wolf cuz "pest and dangerous"? And a fox/wolf person pest controller of any of these say "actually the big carnivore help the balance, and aren't a treat unless you provoque them, you cause the infestation because you let "cute rabbits" reproduce" and the clients it's like "are you saying this because you are a fox/wolf?"... 🤨 Ohhhh if the pest worker was a rabbit that would be even more weird for the others. As a former rabbit owner let me tell you those little guy are vicious! God the fur clothes industry, that is also another can of existential questions...
MiyaTheGoldenFlower
2024-09-08 15:25:59 +0000 UTCThe thing about humans and great apes is that despite our similarities, we are 100% unequivocally distinct. I think there's a ton of potential in exploring the social dynamics of a world where things aren't so cut and dry, but I also think it would be difficult to incorporate without it becoming the center of every discussion of FB society. Of course I'd still love to see what you would do with it though, always excited to see your animal people c:
chroniqlo
2024-09-08 15:13:35 +0000 UTCEhhh it’s not my favorite option. I think carnivore consumption/general worldbuilding of what functions as livestock can be answered by bugs as livestock. Which is also cute as fuck imo.
Shaylin A.
2024-09-08 15:10:55 +0000 UTCPersonally I find it a bit uncanny! Not my biggest cup of tea for anthro worlds. Only because I really love the idea of anthro animals both grappling with being people and animals, rather than just being shoe ins for people! It also allows for more diverse social systems amongst society, as the animal kingdom is so incredibly complex, seeing it be written in a world where everyone is trying to function as a civilization is endlessly interesting to me. Though, this is not to say both can't exist. It just might complicate things (or make them more interesting!)
RagingRiptide
2024-09-08 14:57:47 +0000 UTCI googled him the other night to remember what he looked like and yuuuup, still hate him. It's baffling, Disney has some of the best dog designs in animation...and then there's Pluto, with his gangy legs and human knees and UGH he just looks so FLESHY. His ears pull on the skin of his face, he's got all this extra skin that bunches up around his joints, he just feels like he'd be unnatural and gross to the touch. I WANT to like Pluto (cause Goofy manages to look weird but cute), but huuuurgh I just can't vibe with that bony skinsack looking dog
Lopoddity
2024-09-08 14:35:44 +0000 UTCOh I'm still gonna keep a lot of the silly fantastical stuff, I think all worldbuilding could use a little ridiculousness. I still want animal pun name cities and giant bug pets and characters doing silly animal behaviors! And giant underwater cities and city engineering to accomodate different furryfolk. I guess I just wanna have it all. Having regular animals provides easy answers, but keeping them out lets the main cast be animals AND people. One of my fav anthro worlds is Tuca and Bertie because it's a very inconsistent and silly one. Some plants are plants and some are fully anthropomorphic people but also some regular plants talk but also some of them eat people. Some towns have animal pun names, but San Francisco is still a thing. The bird characters don't have wings, but some can fly anyway just by flapping their arms. Regular animals are around and some are pets, but some of the pet animals are fully sapient and write love letters and do taxes. Tuca gets life-saving surgery to remove an egg stuck in her reproductive system....the egg is placed in an easter basket, and Tuca takes it home and fries it for lunch. That's the kind of silliness I'm after, but I ALSO want hard rules sometimes and heavy consistent lore! Argh!
Lopoddity
2024-09-08 14:30:39 +0000 UTCEhhh I’m more in the bojack/zootopia/beastars camp of things where it isn’t really important to the story overall, but I like the creative ways people work around there being no “animals.” I like your world how it is, personally, and normal animals kinda take away from the drama of stuff like code red.
Acornheart
2024-09-08 14:23:00 +0000 UTCI mostly want you to do what you want, but I also like giving you some philosophy to churn for a bit, and an option other than "do what you want", heh.
Must Love Frogs
2024-09-08 14:18:37 +0000 UTCIt's nice to hear a dissenting opinion! Yes, I imagine that gets real annoying real fast. I'm not saying there aren't downsides to having regular animals, nor that it won't cause confusion. I'm still mulling over whether I want to deal with that confusion. However, I LIKE the joke in your world, Pigs eating pigs. It's surreal and silly and brings to mind Gary Larson comics. Furthermore, adding regular animals helps add a bit more meat to the world, so to speak. It gives Skye and her family something to actually herd. More for our farmers and nature scientists to do. As another commenter mentioned, it's kinda strange for a character to go into the woods and see NO living things besides the plants and bugs, the world feels a bit empty. Species could have lore and cultural customs regarding their animal counterparts, ie. Deerfolk finding deer beautiful and noble and decorating their homes with deer motifs, perhaps some going so far as to use deer pelts and antlers. Herbivores having opinions ranging from fully condeming the consumption of meat to a "Mama Henrietta" mascot actress selling a popular brand of processed chicken products. There's still room for the world to be fake and kinda fucked-up! But also...I kinda like how Honey and Sunny have/had actual dog jobs, Honey is a service dog and Sunny was a K-9 officer. Angel being a former Dogfighter is weird in a world with ACTUAL dogs that could be forced to fight in place of people. Is it more fucked up for carnivores to eat lab-grown meat made from harvested cells of prey people, or for them to eat non-sapient versions of their prey neighbors? Unclear! Additionally, in most furry worlds I've seen with regular animals, it's usually done in fiction where the furry folk are mostly just animal-shaped humans (Aggretsuko, Arthur, When We Fly). I've never seen it done in a world where the furryfolk retain some degree of animal qualities and instinct (ie. Beastars, Zootopia). Do things get weird if a Wolf feels drawn to howl like a wolf? If a Rat wants to gnaw like a rat? If Sunny sometimes chases a tennis ball on all fours? If Perry likes a can of Friskies in his morning oatmeal? Lots of food for thought!
Lopoddity
2024-09-08 14:14:02 +0000 UTCWhen it comes to anthro’s being around normal animals I’ve personally always been “eh” about. The conversation about food and what animals are used for various produce comes up, why are some animals sapient and others arnt, how do anthros view/treat their feral animal counterparts, ect I personally prefer either having certain animals assigned as the non-sapient animals that take over the rolls as pets or otherwise, or having fantastical fantasy/hybrid/fake creatures that do.
Heather
2024-09-08 14:02:28 +0000 UTCI don’t know how much you are workshopping/reworking the entire setting/logistics of Fuzzbutts overall, but I did enjoy the more fantastical elements of your world-building, like the potential existence of land-dwelling fish-dogs and giant insects as pets. Or the silly animal pun names for countries/states/towns. Or the quirky accommodations aquatic furry folk might need to get around if they aren’t living in cities that are either underwater or provide that kind of infrastructure already. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. But I understand why some of those fantastical elements might be tonally jarring now that you are exploring a lot more adult/serious real world issues with your characters, and now that you’ve been giving them more human anatomy. To actually answer your question, I think adding actual feral animals to this universe would personally still create that same Goofy-Pluto situation you were talking about. But if you fully embrace that weirdness, it could be interesting. But I don’t think sapient furryfolk would have nearly the same incentive to produce and sell their own animal byproducts anymore, and I don’t see why lab-grown meat would be so appealing if you can just get steak from a normal cow. These characters being furries instead of normal humans is starting to feel less relevant to the narrative and more like an aesthetic choice, which is totally fine if that’s what you are going for! Either way, I am always excited about your art and storytelling, no matter what direction it takes! All this was just my opinion, do whatever you want!
FloweryFruitFangs
2024-09-08 14:01:55 +0000 UTCI just realized I am a Pluto stan and I don't know how to feel about it. Seriously, I even have two figurines of him. WHY DO I HAVE THOSE?!?
Marta Tarasiuk
2024-09-08 13:55:34 +0000 UTC“Though you might see Skye walking Sunny on a leash.” Bruh XD. I’m not sure how I really feel about this new concept tbh. On one hand, realistically, how would have the anthro animals survived without non anthro animals? We as humans have needed animals to survive. We used them not just for food, but labor and companionship. I’m not sure if we could survive without them… and I wonder if the same thing applies historically and currently to Fuzzbutts? But on the other hand, I think about how weird it would be to see a person… walking another person who isn’t cognitively on the same level. That’s just fucked up man. And imagine the can of worms that opens in terms of “real human” vs. “dumb human” rights. I think it’s easier to keep chimps as pets because, even though they look kinda like us and are very smart, they feel at arms length away in terms of being human. Vs a dog owning another dog as a pet… yea idk But feel free to ignore my silly opinion. This is YOUR work at the end of the day. We pay for YOUR content and creativity so don’t feel too bound by your audience. Have fun with it. Even if you did decide to go this way, I’d totally support
MEllegoo
2024-09-08 13:49:47 +0000 UTCI’ve always been pro-normal animals alongside furries for the simple reason that without them I’m stuck on the fact the environment of the world wouldn’t work…like even removing one animal can upset the whole natural environment so idk how it would even begin to function without the majority of wild animals. I guess maybe the environment would have evolved around the lack of animals? Still kinda weird to think about. Also I’m 100% convinced monkeys would still be a popular pet if it was legal and accepted…cuz in places where it is people do still keep them thangs. Honestly even in the USA they were sold in pet stores until like…the 90s. Despite them being probably the worst animal you can keep as a pet lots of people are obsessed with them. I could see the same thing happening in a furry universe, especially since a lot of people love pets because they’re basically forever kids that never disagree with you. I bet empty nesters would love having a loyal pet that perhaps looks like their child who never calls
owlcoholik
2024-09-08 13:46:06 +0000 UTCPersonally speaking I see this concept in media a fair bit. "Night in the Woods" has stray cats in the background while Mae is off doing their thing. "Animal Crossing" has actual birds and owls and frogs alongside the villager ones. So for me it wouldn't be that far of a leap to make if you did go with this concept.
Amanda Stidham
2024-09-08 13:45:58 +0000 UTCGod this is so CUTE I think the idea of adding non sapient animals into FB would be great and as you said, would answer a lot of troublesome questions. Imo, if we were to detach the animals from the anthros enough, it wouldn't be weird for a horse to ride a horse (similar to how some people keep monkeys as pets, as unethical as it is). I also always felt weird about Pluto, but in my case it was because him and Goofy were drawn in the exact same way, with the only diffrence being that Pluto walks on all fours. Smth that could mitigate the uncanny valley could be giving the non saptient animalls more less cartoony eyes/faces etc
Jaszczur
2024-09-08 13:27:02 +0000 UTCAs someone who's actually doing the whole furry confusion thing, here's my opinion for FB specifically: Don't. Adding /animals/ (what everyone calls ferals) will change the entire trajectory of your world, and frankly, I like the trajectory of your world. Real people just trying to live their little lives in a society filled with fake /bull/shit is kind of what FB is about. From day one I set out to do the furry confusion thing, and I constantly get asked where the pigs get the bacon that they serve on their waffle sandwiches. I don't mind responding, but sometimes people are offended by the answer. How can there be pigs and /pigs/?? Well, that's the joke, doudou. I'm not here to tell you what to do, but you did ask for opinions, and the Goofy versus Pluto dilemma just doesn't seem to be a chunk of fat that the FB cast need to chew. They have enough problems.
Must Love Frogs
2024-09-08 12:45:31 +0000 UTC(Justice for Pluto) But I'd love to see all the different dynamics this opens up. I can imagine Pawberry Acres having a small farm of chickens/goats on the side, for example.
Blizwolfthewolf
2024-09-08 11:39:05 +0000 UTCTHEY ARE BROTHERS!!!
Tibbles Yorkie789
2024-09-08 10:56:58 +0000 UTCI think, maaaybe. I’d be up to seeing how you explore it.
Rumpeltyltskyn
2024-09-08 10:36:17 +0000 UTCI like it when series that have anthro animals alongside non sapient feral animals go fully into how weird it is. I would totally give Sunny a dog and have people go 'aww pets always look like their owners' and it's the exact same breed. Leaning into the ridiculousness is fun. I think one of the best ways to avoid the uncanny 'this looks like a person but on all fours' is to give them different eye types. Like little black dots for animals and more expressive detailed eyes for people.
Murkydepths
2024-09-08 09:08:36 +0000 UTCI'd personally say give the concept some exploration if it interests you and see where it takes you! No harm in experimenting/answering some questions you have toward the concept, finding how you feel about, and dubbing it canon/noncanon after. :) I also have that issue with worlds of anthromorphic animals, and I think you including feral "regular" animals would make perfect sense because we are kinda living that reality. Humans are animals, humans and apes are of the same family tree, but no one would argue against saying that we are very different in comparison to a bush monkey, or even a chimp. I think it'd add an extra layer of societal interests in how their feral, distant relatives are used in conversation. Do deer people use a feral wolf's natural predation of deer as justification against a wolf-person? Do landfolk point at feral shark attacks to perpetuate a shark-person may "lose control" while in the water, or at the scent of blood? How deeply does instinct still run in anipeople if at all since they've evolved to take a human's place? How evolved are they in comparsion to their feral relatives? Can prey-like animal folk eat meat (I'm picturing Donald Duck eating poultry or things like ham and us rarely batting an eye)? Can a predator animal person safely be a vegetarion? Do they do it as some means to try and further space themselves from their feral counterparts? TLDR a whole slew of very unique and quite a few possibilities to explore for your world and how it affects it and the characters within. I'm very intrigued with your thoughts and how you'll execute it should you give it a go!
Ash
2024-09-08 07:55:11 +0000 UTCI think that If you did this, than you would have something similar to Bojack Horseman. I know that there are no pets in Bojack Horseman, but the feel of all the nonsense, craziness and dark comedy would be akin. Why there are sentient animals and also non sentient ones? How do they coexist? Where did the sentient ones evolve and how? Are they evolved humans, are they experiments that broke free after some kind of post apocalyptic event, are something else completely? It would need an explanation, or It would need some suspension of disbelief, like in Bojack. But It would add interesting themes, like farming, animal abuse, zoos, and so on. Without It, you would have something more akin to Beastars or Zootropolis. So, sentient animals which are basically humans with added issues, like animal instincts and obviously predation between species before modern times. It depends on what you're trying to convey, and what kind of world you're trying to build.
chichi77tim
2024-09-08 07:22:48 +0000 UTCMaybe there’s some weird lore that suggests that most if not all animals are meant to have relatives that evolved to become sapient to show that all living things are connected, even if they belong to different families. I’m not a biologist so I’m not too knowledgeable on why some animals evolve while others stay mostly the same. I imagine that anthropomorphic animals had a gene in ancient times that made them destined to evolve into humanoid versions of themselves causing them to split off from the behaviors of their ancestors.
Darkhorizonstudios301
2024-09-08 07:21:27 +0000 UTCHonestly, I think this would be very interesting, because it would open another type of uncomfortable questions about what is right or wrong. I mean even in our world, there are cultures that think eating certain animals is horrible because they are considered pets or just not food cuz yuck, but in another culture these creatures are part of the cuisine, influence in location, weather, history, etc. Also it would allow open a very curious box, there's assumption about animals, because bad rep or just negative bias for look, so maybe the humanoid version of these animals have to endure those kinds of "fame". Like sure there is already stereotypes for species already in animalverse but also adding to their non sapiens contraparts? Damn that would be mess too.
MiyaTheGoldenFlower
2024-09-08 07:15:35 +0000 UTCPluto haters rise up because I could never stand that ugly golden orange abonation of a supposed dog. You could tell me it's a reptilian hiding in a weird dog skin suit who missed the memo that dogs talk in the Micky Mouse verse and tbh I would belive you. With that said, I absolutely love the idea here and feel as if it adds so much to your lore and world building with so many interesting aspects to explore. It would be interesting to see folks different takes on animal meat or even keeping pets. Idk I enjoy it a lot and wouldn't mind seeing it explored more. Then again fuzzbuts is your own story where you have the power to do as you pleas, the ultimate creative sandbox dare I say. Also a slightly off topic question that I hope is okay to ask here, but have you changed the lore surrounding how the body types in fuzzbuts works? If I recall, they where originally more animal forced to stand on two legs than anthro but it seems that they are leaning more anthro as of late. Not that I mind, I personally find the more anthro take really cool and more diverse with body types which is something I've always admired about your work to a point it made me want to also draw folks of all body types.
Fukōsagi
2024-09-08 07:12:13 +0000 UTCIn my furry world this is a thing!! Idk the world just feels so..empty without regular animals. Like imagine going on a walk in a forest in an only anthro animal world and the only life you encounter are plants, mushrooms and bugs. It would be so eerie to me. So in my world furries and regular animals (and humanoids because why the fuck not I'll figure out history and politics some day) co exist and like you said there's some weird situations! Furry herbivores eating the meat of non sentient feral herbivores is not illegal or seen as cannibalism but it will get you weird looks and people will probably think you have some kind of weird fetish. Furry dogs having pet dogs is no issue in my world though haha. Anyhow sorry for rambling about my own world! Wether you stick with it or not I think it's a fun idea!
Doxiedreg
2024-09-08 07:06:38 +0000 UTCHit enter too soon but either way I’d be happy to see the concept explored :3
Imogen
2024-09-08 07:04:45 +0000 UTCOh worm? I think it’s an incredibly interesting concept to explore! It may kinda defang potential future stories of say, animal people who make products that people DO consume. Like, what social issues would a lovey cow lady face? Is she seen as a walking talking milk bar? Or maybe chickens, are they just seen as their product? It’s entirely possible to do both at the same time, and it’s entirely possible I’m just making up random shit that you already answered and it slipped my mind xD
Imogen
2024-09-08 07:04:22 +0000 UTC
