Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 6x09 “Smashed” FULL REACTION

I really love your live reactions to the episode as well as your afterthoughts. The way you talk about Spike and Buffy is what makes them so compelling, it's so good yet so toxic but that makes for such interesting television to see what will possibly happen next. I pretty much felt the same way when I first watched this episode, that clearly this Spike and Buffy stuff will not last but I really wanted to see them have a real relationship but Buffy is such in a dark place right now. As you, I really loved when Spike was Buffy's confidant so I wish the writers didn't change that so quickly. However, you made a great point that Spike does NOT have a soul which is what people forget at times. I love your anaysis of Willow and how much she tries to control the situation. She's clearly one of your favorite but you can see the bad in what she is doing and obviously her friendship with Amy made things so much more worst. Tara/Dawn friendship was sweet! I'd say that one of the benefits of Tara and Willow breaking up was that we could see Tara have other friendships outside of her just sharing scenes with Willow.

Tia

It's all intriguing but disturbing to think that the way these characters start to go down the path of self-destruction is what we like to see. I mean, I'm not saying that I don't like characters developing in a story but from a moral standpoint, it's really tragic. And yes, Tara is pretty much the ONLY one mature and responsible in this scenario. If Tara found out exactly what Willow's been up to, she'd not only say the truth of what she feels but she'd condone it like how a mature adult would. She left because she could not bear the thought that Willow's unable to keep her own word and had the capacity to manipulate not only HER but everyone around her. The Scoobies were enabling her and Tara was the only one to go against it. Anya and Xander, well, even Buffy, can only sit there and talk about it. Willow just had them believe that there's really nothing they can do to try and stop her from using magic... for whatever she wants/needs. She's free to do what she wants and it doesn't help that Giles wasn't around to keep her in check. It's like Band Candy all over again. Even the Slayer fails to help make the situation better 'cause she's got her own issues to deal with so she deals with it in her usual way: she releases it onto evil/supernatural beings and what better way to use Spike as her own punching bag. I still wonder how this would all have changed if Giles was still around... to keep the "kids" in check. Buffy, Willow, Dawn... at least Tara feels the need to keep Dawn company knowing she's been sort of like a sister/mother figure to her while Buffy was dead. It's also interesting to note that none of them couldn't talk Willow out from using any magic as she's making it look like she's "level-headed" according to Xander, yet didn't they realise that Willow's the one who wiped their memories and because of that, Giles took off and Tara had to leave like it's not THAT a big of a deal? or maybe it's just me. This show has a pretty interesting way of letting BIG things slide and become worse down the road. Look at Spike. They figured, he's still got the chip but is still very much capable of doing something evil.

Shierra C Styver

And about the villains (The Nerds), don’t worry too much about them. Think about them as a distraction to what’s really going on this season. 😊 and just be prepared for anything...

Stephen Mintac

Ahhhhh yassss! 😭

Stephen Mintac

Oh Anya. She is just everything! 😂

Stephen Mintac

The extended scene is awesome, as are MANY of the s6 dailies lol

Holi117

My thoughts on buffy and spike this episode. For 2yrs Spike has been Buffy’s punching bag. She hits him for the fun of it, Even when he hasn’t actually done anything. So I can totally understand Spike wanting some form of vengeance. I think in his mind, this finally evens the playing field. They are equals again, despite his chip. But in typical Spike fashion he has to push it one step further. However... BUFFY turns it into a kiss, Buffy climbs him like a tree, unzips him, and initiates the sex. Not Spike. I don’t think Spike expected any of that at all! His look of awe... Its absolutely not healthy, buuuttttttt.... 😍

Holi117

Excellent points from another “rider or die Spuffy shipper! I also think their fight is crucial in putting Spike on equal grounds again with Buffy. When he couldn’t physically hurt her it created an unbalanced power dynamic between them. Akin to a CEO starting a sexual relationship with a middle of the rung employee. Even if it’s mutual the CEO will also hold the power in the relationship.

Bunny Norris

Absolutely loved hearing your character study on Willow! It is so hard to watch her character make some of the decisions she does but you explained it such a way it makes it very relatable and helps to see things from Willow’s perspective. Doesn’t make some of her choices right or ok, it just helps to understand how someone as adorably sweet as her could wind up on the path she’s currently on. The Spike and Buffy scene this episode is one of my favorite “OMG” moments! I was genuinely shocked on my first watch when that whole scene went down lol

Kelly Keel

I like them too. A couple non-spoiler BTS tidbit about the Nerds (for Liam) is that most of the “nerdy” conversations they have are the, according to the writers, roughly verbatim conversations they themselves have in the writers room while working on scripts. They are also referred to as the Trio but only in some of the scripts and in interviews with some of the production staff. Which at one point caused fandom confusion for those that didn’t keep up with every single interview or article. Both monikers are interchanged in the fandom now. And lastly, yes, the dust at the end is cgi as requested by the studio upon seeing the uncut extended version. Which I -and Joss- found weird because they were, according to Joss, “completely fine with the violence” between Buffy and Spike and even the beginning of the sex scene. But that last little bit... Heaven forbid the audience sully their virtue.😂

Bunny Norris

Excellent rebuttal. 😊And there, for sure, are some points in there that are left best to discuss next season or even Angel Season 5. The show has stated that it’s just a demon in there that has the memory of the human it posses but those memories are shown to hold great influence over the thoughts and interactions of the demon. Is it the soul that makes a person who they are? Or, is it the collection of experiences and memories the define a person? Tabula Rasa is crazy fascinating to me for that reason. But I too will agree to stop there.🙂 I too need regular Tara and Dawn Adventures. I also enjoyed Dawn’s reactions as it still shows the child-like naivety she has while not sacrificing the elements of her growing up. She went through her parent’s divorce and now again with two mother figures. You’re very much right in that Tara retaining the self confidence and growth we’ve seen is not only refreshing but earned.

Bunny Norris

I love Spuffy, I don't like how Buffy treats Spike sometimes and Spike It's not the purest thing in this world, but he can do good things even without a soul. Spuffy It's not perfect, but I love them, I can't help It. Spike really understands Buffy. She just wants to feel but I also think that she likes Spike a bit. Aaand, she always starts the kissing, just saying.

Irene Cuartas

I don't see anyone celebrating Buffy's mental state at this point in the show. And Spuffy shippers aren't the ones who get pissy with the people who disagree. The fact that we like the ship in general, and have found redeeming qualities to it or written meta on the subject, is our thing. I'd never dream of calling out people who, say, still adore Riley (not my pref) or don't question the age difference between a 16 year old Buffy and a 242 year old Angel (which, admittedly, didn't bother when I was as a teen). And even if there are some of us celebrating Buffy's poor judgment - which I, again, do not see - it's their right to do so. Fandom is subjective; ship and let ship, you know? It doesn't hurt anyone to let people enjoy it how they want without having to endure some anti's proselytizing.

Bixgirl1

Manipulation is certainly the watch-word for this one. In some ways this is a chip-centric(-ish) episode. It had manipulated Spike to stop hurting humans but he learned he could hurt demons. This episode he tries again, still can't hurt (most) humans but he can hurt Buffy. For everyone else, the episode is about behavior modification without all the surgery. Nice catch of Amy's change in tone when Willow hesitates doing something she wants to do. Anya's line to Xander: “Is this that thing I do that you were commenting...” probably shouldn't be left out of the discussion entirely either. Meanwhile, Spike, Amy and Dawn all seem very pleased with themselves for getting the Trio, Buffy, Willow and Tara to do what they wanted them to do. Willow and Amy get bored with all their manipulations at The Bronze pretty quickly. Standing there in the loft where Willow and Tara had their big fight just 3 episodes ago about using magic on the people below without their consent. The biggest - potential - twist in Buffy's story was probably the conversation she didn't have with Willow early in the episode. Was it about the kissing? She had that conversation with Willow and Joyce in “Crush.” Based on her reactions later with Xander & Anya I think it was about that temptation she was feeling. Not only is Willow the best friend Buffy would naturally talk to, she was the one who recognized (in “Flooded”) that Buffy feeling ANY emotion was perhaps a step forward. Which makes me wonder who was manipulating whom as the building fell down around them?

Bruce Trogdon

And out come the hardcore Spuffy shippers to defend their ship regardless of the fact or circumstance. Here's the bottom line for me: Spike is *evil*. If it weren't for the chip he would be attempting to murder Buffy, the Scoobies and countless innocent people. He hasn't changed, he cannot be redeemed. Love and hate are opposite sides of the same coin - as Spike cannot actualise his hate because of the chip he instead "flips the coin". Yes, Spike is a great character, can be funny and charming, but he will never be good. He is entirely selfish and quite frankly, he needs to die. Many people will point to Spike's actions in series 5 as "proof" that he genuinely cares for Buffy, but those actions could also be attributed to selfishness - he doesn't help Buffy for her benefit, it's purely to score as many "points" with her as he can in the hope that she will give him what he wants in return. Some people will also point to the fact that it's Buffy's business what she does, if she chooses to pursue a relationship (sexual, or any other kind) with an evil mass-murdering demon then that is her choice. This is true, but what is also true is that no-one should be "celebrating" the fact that her poor judgement and fragile mental health has led to this.

ElectricMonk

Still bugs the hell out of me that A) in character, in story, Spike's first decision after thinking he was free of the chip was trying to kill someone. For extra pathos, someone that looks like Dawn. Oh, there's all sort of bad fanwank that he didn't mean it, but that would break the rules of the chip that had been established backwards and forewards up to this point... and 2) that the writers apparently didn't think this was a big deal.

Dan H

Our "lovely" Buffy, is not so lovely. Especially this season. Putting her in a box on a pedestal is a huge mistake in understanding her.

SpikesEcho

Willow in this episode looks like if "Dopplegangland" Willow and VampWillow went all Dragon Ball fusion...

Khanach

Might be more that we were worried that the protagonist we know and love decided to start a sexual relationship with a mass murdering psychopath....I mean would you have nothing to say if your friend started dating harold shipman? Would you be silent for fear of being accused of trying to "tether" her sexual appetite?

Jon Dub

Ah, finally, the episode that taught me a little something about my own... proclivities. I love how everyone lose their damned minds when a *female* character displays a sexual appetite untethered to love, like or even respect.

Spike is soulless, and a piece of shit. The first thing he does when he thinks his chip isnt working, is try to murder an innocent woman. He is less evil than say, Angelus, but then most Vampires are. He is capable of love without a soul, but its a demons version of love, which is sick, twisted and vile. I cannot understand how anyone could ship our lovely Buffy with this vile, soulless beast. Yes he is funny, and cool, but that doesnt excuse indiscriminant murder

Jon Dub

I'm a hardcore Spuffy shipper, I admit it. And I know there are a lot of us, but I think I'm an outlier in that I really, really adore their first sex scene. I mean, I understand its toxicity, but I feel like it's very keeping with Spike's character as well as Buffy's trauma. They've made it clear that Spike is someone who, when he loves, does so wholeheartedly. Such a characteristic can result in a beautifully intimate observation of the beloved, an understanding not many can attest to. The flip side of the coin, of course, is obsession, unhealthy and dangerously possessive. But while the scene itself is fraught and violent, I can never help feeling like it's Spike trying to give Buffy what she needs: that rage and fire she's been so desperate for. (Understand, I'm not saying he doesn't enjoy the violence - he's a demon, and can be a douche, besides lol. But--) If you examine Spike's dreams about her in S5, his practice sessions talking to her, the softness with which he devotes himself to protecting her and Dawn, his (respectful and understanding) declaration to her at the bottom of the stairs in The Gift, and all of his S6 scenes with her up till this point, all of that, in my opinion shows the sort of relationship - sexual and otherwise - he *wants* to have with her. He's simply willing to make compromises in search of that because, as he said to Riley, it's better to have her a little than not at all, and part of that compromise starts here. Until this episode in s6, Buffy treats him as a companion/partner if not outright friend, seeking him out for both emotional and physical comfort - and then, in this episode, when she hits him, it verifies to him what about her is still missing that he's been unable to fulfill. All this background to explain why I love the violent sex so much, and I still haven't touched on that: I love their honesty here. Spike is taunting Buffy but at the same time reminding her who she is, who he is, who they are. Buffy is truly furious - she feels betrayed by him for hitting her, but also by her own desire for him - and doesn't hold back the way she has been since her resurrection. Spike is genuinely fighting, it's obviously not a spar, but it's clear he's not trying to kill her; everything he does and says is designed to get a response from her. And I love that she initiates the kisses and the sex. Spike's look of stunned disbelief will be seared in my mind forever. The dulled sounds of destruction and melancholy music were also brilliant choices to make. It's a Big Thing happening here, and not the way the fans wanted, but deeper and more serious than hate sex. The music, as much as the sex, leaves us wondering what's next.

Bixgirl1

Oh, I like the nerd gang, but that's just me. I think of them more as side villains, I guess. Maybe the last season was so grim that the writers felt some ease was needed when it came to the villains, because golly...there's definitely a lot of darkness when it comes to Buffy, Spike, and Willow so far, huh? Not sure if we could handle a real big bad. If Glory was in this, we'd be so stressed haha.

Grace

Season 6 is lit and not afraid to break boundaries... Hahaha!

Stephen Mintac

Thank you! Spike and Buffy together is such and interesting pairing in this series. I like it more than what Angel and Buffy had because we had plenty of time to build up those emotions and dynamics for Spike and her. Love this route. Wonderful reaction! THANKS.

Grace

An animal's behavior is as much a force of nature as any storm or disaster: it's not good or evil, it just is. Vampires in Buffy are intelligent and capable of exercising restraint, they just overwhelmingly choose not to; the blood house vampires' appearance were most likely a show aesthetic choice, as we've seen that a vampire can be fighting-fit surviving on just animal blood. As to being human victims, the vampire is a new demon moving into a recently vacated shell; the human soul moves on, and while the vampire inherits the memories, this is merely an influence and they are a distinct being. Individuals can be characterized as or assumed to be good or evil, but this is typically inferred by their actions or expected actions. Those actions (and their complicated association with motive) are the things that are "actually" good or evil. And to start going on a tangent, they're not weighed on scale that can be tipped one way or the other. To paraphrase Angel, redemption never ends and no amount of good can erase the evil one's done. To take that further: there's no point at which to expect forgiveness or acceptance. (Although it's an amazing thing to see if it reaches such a point.)

Valerie.Z

“Back for more Buffy”..... best words ever.

I could talk for ages about the toxicity that is Spike and Buffy, or Willow's need to control things with magic stemming from her self esteem issues going back to the start of the show..but plenty of other people are talking about Spike and Buffy, and I've already made several comments on Willow, so I don't want to come off as as a hater because I really do like her character despite some of the terrible things she does. Let's instead focus on something more positive... Tara and Dawn are amazing in this episode. Dawn's reactions feel very accurate for a girl who is, as you said, basically watching a second set of parents separate. She shows initial anger towards Tara because she doesn't understand, then she relents, but still tries to manipulate a meeting so that her parents will get back together. Those scenes are probably some of my favorite Dawn moments from the series. Plus we get to see more of Tara standing up for herself, and we get to see more of her as an independent character rather than just "Willow's girlfriend."

Second_Strike

This is such an amazing Season/Series to really dive into discussions around the morally grey areas of good and evil. “Evil” in a sense is very much perspective based. Most vampires were human victims. Not having much choice in becoming something that must kill to live. Though we see in season 5 with the vampire blood houses Riley went to that they don’t HAVE to kill to live. However, those vampires were frail and sickly looking; malnourished. It’s brings up the old philosophical argument of ‘Is the Lion (or any carnivore) evil?’ Male lions will kill the cubs(children) of other lions and mate with that lion’s female so his genes are passed on. Is this evil?Carnivores often prey on the old, weak, and sickly of their respective prey. Is it evil to prey on the helpless? Yet we’ve seen that this in fact strengthens the prey species and ecosystems. Now if a human began euthanizing human elderly, terminating the terminally ill, or anyone that cannot contribute to strengthening the human genome or societal growth, I think all of us (save the psychopaths and sociopaths) would agree that would be an evil thing to do. So is it only evil when one murders or irrevocably harms its own species? Then the lion is evil. But when one species kills another to survive or play its role in the ecosystem —even if it’s the babies of the other species— when such acts are neither morally evil nor morally good, but morally neutral. Spike is a different species killing another species to survive. But we know he has killed for fun in the past. Oh “School Hard,” how we love thee. That would be evil. Domestic cats kill for fun. That too then would be evil. But how many of us greatly adore and love them. But that was in the past, relatively speaking. The chipped (domesticated) Spike we see in this ep/season must talk himself up to killing again —a highly argued thing in the fandom. And how many of us greatly love and adore him. Yes he is still capable of great acts of evil, but is he himself evil? When Buffy was dead why did he stay? Why did he continue to fight at the side of her friends? Why did he continue to watch over Dawn? Each of the things would be considered virtuous and good. His atonement for failing the one he loved. Even without a soul he feel guilt, sorrow and the need to atone. Like all humans he is capable of great acts of love and darkness. But he is not human. “Poor Spikey. Can’t be a human. Can’t be a vampire.” Where does he fit in?

Bunny Norris

"... the S6 Big Bad. Have we met them yet?" It's probably one of the kittens.

UTU49

Buffy and Spike in this episode...DESTRUCTO NOOKIE! (absolutely the definition of) :D

Claire Eyles

The original uncensored cut of that final scene is available online somewhere. It was heavily trimmed (and some dust added to obscure gyrations) before airing.

Jarrod Wild

*Sometimes* Spike is really sweet and caring. And James is just charismatic as hell, and it can be easy to forget Spike's true character. But not in this episode. It is very clear from the way he lashes out at Buffy that, "Oh yeah! He's evil." As a Spuffy shipper, I think the conflicting feelings (at least for me) come from the fact that we get these moments between Spike and Buffy where they are genuinely sweet and wholesome. The ending of Fool for Love, the ending of Intervention, that scene in The Gift, Spike's reaction to Buffy coming back to life, the "Every night I save you" scene (one of my favorites). You can just tell that IF the best version of Spike could be with the best version of Buffy, if he was capable of actual reform and she was able to develop genuine feelings for him, it would be magical. BUT. That's not what we're getting here. We are getting a soulless vampire and a woman in a self-destructive depression spiral--two damaged individuals using and abusing each other. And it's wrong, it's toxic, and it's uncomfortable, and it isn't the way I wanted this to happen. So while my ship is getting content, and the part of me that wants them together feels a little fed and happy, the rational part of my brain is screaming, "Not like this, not like this, not like this." I want this to be real. But Buffy just wants to feel.

RevanTheRebel

I was waiting for this episode!! That conflict you feel about Spuffy is exactly how most of the first-run fandom felt. I always thought that confliction is, in a way, the core dynamic and appeal of Spike. Both to us the viewers and to Buffy herself. As she says, Spike can’t be a human and can’t be a vampire. On some level she is aware that somehow both man and monster reside in Spike. Like when she kissed Angel while he was in vamp face (Series 2 at the Ice rink). She is a person who sees the man/heart through the monster. But whereas Angel’s humanity is almost entirely encased in his soul. The monster in Angel is chained. To give into Angel the man doesn’t mean she gives into the monster. But with a soulless Spike: to give into the man means she gives in to the monster too. That goes against the essence of the slayer within her and denying the man goes against the kindness of Buffy’s heart. Side note as we are all self isolating: There were hundreds, if not, thousands of sizzling fanfics about how that night continues. What with Slayer and Vampire stamina along with their shortened recovery times. (Sorry I think you’re adorable when you blush) The fact that you didn’t see the sex scene coming... (no pun intended) And when you heard that zipper...🤣😂🤣

Bunny Norris

That book is sooo good. Reading it added a lot to my love for Buffy and appreciation of it as art

Shashank

I'm a bit brain mushy at the moment from no sleep, so I'll probably right thoughts essay at another time. A few things though - they apparently bought Amy back, because someone reminded Joss I think it was, or one of the writers, that a rat's life cycle was only about 3 years, so Amy the rat died or Amy the human returned; the necklace Tara is wearing is very similar to the type of necklace that some traditional wiccan high priestesses wear, I'm not sure if that's coincidence or was planned; and when Amy offers to magically roofie a girl for Willow the girl's name just happens to be 'Brie', as in a type of cheese, rat-cheese-obvious play on name word is obvious.

Claire Eyles

The toxicity of this batch of eps is such interesting and complicated storytelling. I know a lot of people find it laborious to watch, but I honestly think it's the most interesting choice since the original concept. Everyone is making mistakes, and there's a WHOLE world of grey. I think most IRL villains are just people, which makes The Trio interesting - and slightly prescient re: incel culture (one of them is most DEFO an incel). That said, I'll leave it til the end of season to discuss my views on the S6 Big Bad. Have we met them yet? Do we KNOW we've met them yet?

Renee Pope-Munro

I love the afterthoughts as always! So insightful about the toxicity of relationships in this one. I agree with feeling like Spike and Buffy could be together but not like this. Well said. Can't wait for next one! 👍🤓 Liam: "Someone could write a book about this." - I can't wait for you to read some of the good ones! Myth, Metaphor & Morality by Mark Field is excellent. 📚

RavenSteal

On the positive side, at least Spike can't lose his soul.

Steve Quast

I'm with you. I was never into ships so I didn't care for Spike.

Rey Gallogo

Ah, sheep. The old speech Cordelia gave Harmony. And I'm sticking with this, because this is the episode I think of when I think of Season-bleeping-six. (Well, actually this whole arc.) Even this has its good parts (the Fett scene is gold), but mostly, I feel like I'm watching part one of an afterschool special.

FernWithy

Looking forward to the YouTube comments on this episode, lol.

Miah

Yes, that ending scene, yowzer! The Spike Buffy relationship right now is very toxic but da** that scene was kinda hot at the same time lol!

Melissa Murphy

Okay, just finished watching your reaction ... I know I’m alone in this but I don’t like this Spike, I like season 2 Spike, Season 4 Spike is hilarious but this mopey stalker Spike is just annoying and has already gone on for way too long 🙄

CeNedra

The hype for the next two Buffy episodes is over 9000 for me right now!

Claire Eyles

I stepped away from less than an hour, and then it gets posted, LOL. Oh well, saved my refresh finger from repetitve strain injury hahaha. :D

Claire Eyles

I've been so excited for this batch. Here we goooo!!!

Jenn Rose

I knew my constant refreshing would pay off 🥰🥰🥰

CeNedra