Steering Committee Character Creation - Economics
Added 2017-12-13 19:20:31 +0000 UTCIt looks like the name "Serena" is winning pretty confidently in the name department. I like it, as well. So we'll go along with that. It sounds fitting for a lioness without being so exotic that it would estrange her from a contemporary setting.
In this poll, you're going to be determining her class status at her age of 27. I originally was going to do this whole write-up where I listed all the jobs she could have, but the choices ended up SO numerous, so I'm going to whittle it down to her general economic status for now. In polls like this, don't think about what makes the "happiest" circumstance, but think about what makes for the most interesting stories in your mind.
1. Poor and raised poor - She's poor but surviving, and she comes from a family that is poor, as well. She probably only has a high school education.
2. Poor and raised middle class - She's come from a comfortable middle class family, but she's trying to make it on her own, starting at the lower end of the economic spectrum without relying on much support from home.
3. Poor and raised wealthy - She grew up with a very comfortable lifestyle, but for whatever reason, she's estranged from her family support in order to make it on her own, starting out at the low end.
4. Middle class and raised poor - She's risen above her upbringing and she's doing better than her parents.
5. Middle class and raised middle class - She's pretty much continuing how she grew up. Maybe someday she'll do better than her parents, but not right now.
6. Middle class and raised wealthy - She's making it on her own, not quite as well as her parents, but she's still young.
7. Wealthy and raised poor - Amazing opportunities and ambition have caused her to grab life by the nuts and find the key to be on her way to wealth, beyond anything she was raised with.
8. Wealthy and raised middle class - On her way to doing much better than her parents, due to her field and the opportunities she's exploited.
9. Wealthy and raised wealthy - Born to comfort, and at her age, she's happy to rely on it as a safety net so she doesn't have to worry about money, giving her greater flexibility in what she wants to do, and free time.
Poll ends in 24 hours!
Comments
Thank you, and Merry Christmas. <3
Jay Naylor
2017-12-15 17:09:38 +0000 UTCI agree totally. When I first started out it was in the military. My experience there paid off big time in the civilian world. I had to work really hard at first at Tecumseh before I got to where I could work smarter though. Most days I went home in a great mood because of feeling satisfied that I had done well, plus building up a pretty good bit of muscle while doing my job. Didn't make my face look better but the body was awesome. LOL I'm "rich" in the sense that I have the best wife a guy could have for almost eighteen year now. All five of my kids are all grown and are doing well with no major problems in their lives. My youngest daughter (18) still lives here at home and has a decent job. She has to help with her car payment but other than that she can put money away for college. I only receive $59,160 a year in disability and SSA disability benefits It took years to get the VA to pay me properly and I had to get my State Senator to get my SSA benefits. I'm content. My goal in life was to be just that. We live in a great middle class neighborhood, awesome neighbors, nice house with a huge backyard, and like I said, content. I don't know if you celebrate Christmas or not, but if you do, have a very merry one.
voidme457
2017-12-15 01:46:41 +0000 UTCUgh, people who inherited their wealth are insufferable. No wonder all the rich people with kids I know say they don't plan to leave any inheritance to their kids, besides teaching them how to run a business. Also almost none of the dozens of entrepreneurs I know came from wealthy families or risked their parent's money on their ventures. And it's really annoying how it seems that only the lower income and collectivists types claim that to be rich you need to work hard, but that working hard doesn't work. I don't know anyone who is successful who says it takes hard work. It all seems to be about working smarter than the other guy, not harder. So many self defeatist beliefs that people use to keep themselves down ๐ฃ
MT_Fox
2017-12-14 17:05:58 +0000 UTCDude, I'm only on your Patreon because you introduced me to that when you tweeted about it in the first place... You're one of three people I have to thank that I happened to come across that ended up leading me to where I am now. (that, and I love your art and stories)
MT_Fox
2017-12-14 16:42:36 +0000 UTCIn between the times I served in the military I worked for Tecumseh Products, both as a supervisor and hourly. Everything I own is mine and was not handed to me by anyone. Me being successful had nothing to do with "luck". Breaking my neck and back in multiple places in Iraq and not winding up paralyzed was "luck". Unlike Mr. Naylor I am not going to do a back and forth with you as your mindset is drastically different from mine. Just remember though, Karma is a real bitch. BTW, I have nothing against people who have more money and better estates than I have. I respect those people who started with nothing and those who had everything available to obtain their status plus success in life. You are right about not everyone getting a fair start in this world though. I'm glad that you enjoy your work and that it is not a very stressful one as well. I just can't shake the feeling that I'm happier and vastly more rich than you are. As Jay said, 'being "rich" is not the definition of success and happiness.'
voidme457
2017-12-13 23:14:15 +0000 UTCOkay, you're gone.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 22:34:01 +0000 UTCI'd really enjoy seeing something like that too. But check out my comment chain. I think Jay just hates poor people.
Lord451
2017-12-13 22:33:09 +0000 UTCI think you're simply implying that a degree of "luck" can determine if you start from a place of comfort, where you don't have to worry about money as much. But in your initial comments, you were ascribing it to success in whatever endeavors you partake in.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 22:31:53 +0000 UTCI'm not implying "all". I'm saying stop using "luck" to discredit the hard work that makes most people successful. I'm going to take at face value that what you're saying about your father is true, and if so, that's a nice outlier for himself, but the fact that he lives like that, doesn't force me to live in a more poor fashion. I've seen and *been* these unsuccessful people in my life. Envious. Upset. Wondering why things didn't work out. Lots of thoughts in my mind about "if only I was..." etc. If only I was 6'8" and could play basketball professionally. Talk about the genetic lottery. But guess what? Even if it was 6'8", I'd have to compete with everyone else my size, and dedicate so much spare time to training in order to go pro. It'd still be WORK. It'd still be dedication. Even if I loved practice, I'd have to forgo other pleasures for a competitive edge. Luck gets me to 6'8", but that won't get me to pro status. It's what I do with it. So, in your life you have some luck. What do you do with it? Don't use it to discredit other people's effort.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 22:30:22 +0000 UTCWhere's I'm confused that you have this personsl and obviously very heart felt belief that hard work is all that separates millionaires from the homeless and can't see that not everybody is dealt a fair hand. You're projecting a lot into my "self worth" issues. And I'd hardly call them productive. I've worked more hours in the past 10 years than my father ever has (he basically gets to live off of checks that come from land he owns percentage of to the tune of a few M on a bad year). This is basically the definition of rentier capitalism they I've had a balcony seat for. Who are these "unsuccessful people" looking for an excuse that you have so much vitriol for? And I've never said or even meant to imply I'm unhappy. I enjoy my job, I just don't feel the need to bust my ass to push for something more in the directorship position. But I don't make the mistake of thinking that if people who never had the opportunities just took those opportunities they'd be here too. That's incredibly asinine. And luck isn't all it takes. I never meant to imply that. But it's a critical factor because no amount of hard work alone gets you past the point where you still know how much you make an hour. I don't know why you think I'm unhappy or have no esteem. I just read actual research (from multiple different places) and keep my eyes open
Lord451
2017-12-13 22:24:37 +0000 UTCI can't leave your poor statements alone. I actually feel sorry for you if you're well off for that. You've attributed so much to your parent's productivity, and you've never developed a respect for your own. You've used your own circumstance to apply to the nature of success and productivity in general, in a way that unsuccessful people will use as an excuse to why they can't do better. You sound like you haven't actually earned the level of self esteem that comes from building yourself up to a level of success you can be happy with, even if it just means working a part time job and working up to something better. I'm sorry you don't know what you could make of your life if you wanted more than to live off your parent's success, and you're using that to rob other people of their sense of accomplishment by attributing it to "luck".
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 22:07:22 +0000 UTCI thought you were done talking? And I'm glad you managed to escape the permanent part time or juggling 6 jobs economy. I'm actually from the vote option 8 myself. I've worked hard at times. Slacked off a lot. And you know what? I worked about a tenth as hard to get where I am and living very comfortably than anybody who didn't have everything bought for them. The difference isn't how much work it takes to excel, but how little it takes to stay static. That might be why you see it as such a matter of personal responsibility, because you busted your ass to get where you are. But my parents own a ton of oil money. And I got to ride the escalator and compare it to those around me. And you know what? I'd rather be lucky than good any day. And most of the people I grew up around and went to school with are in the same boat. The difference is I made friends with people outside of the yacht club cause I'm a nerdy DND player. And I can tell you, I work long hours but I've never worked as hard as any of the scrubs I game with who live paycheck to paycheck.
Lord451
2017-12-13 22:02:23 +0000 UTCI don't think you do appreciate it. I think you attribute too much to luck, and dubious 'research' that backs up excuses for failures. However, don't presume I don't know what poverty is. I've been there. I've punched clocks, I've worked shifts I didn't want to, and I've met people from both ends of the economic spectrum, and I know what makes them tick, their attitudes, their motives, by talking to them. The guy who works 40 hours and looks forward to the weekend isn't working as hard as the guy who puts in 80 hour weeks trying to get his business off the ground, and if he fails, he strives to do it *again* without blaming "bad luck". There is a difference that transcends your material beginning and I won't let it be dismissed by lip service to "if only I was that lucky." Make your own luck.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 21:54:17 +0000 UTCI can appreciate that, but it seems childishly ignorant to dismiss the facts. Research into who actually becomes entrepreneurs and business owners and self-made people tend to overwhelmingly come from families that can supply the $30k necessary to start a business, have strong educations and benefit from support networks that can't just be made on the spot. And in about 80% of cases, parents who can support the MULTIPLE failed businesses they later before they struck s winner. Winning the genetic lottery and having the right parents is hugely important. Hard work is critical, but means nothing without that luck. Success isn't exclusively luck, but it sure benefits from it. Though it does sound like you're not the author to write an interesting character dealing with poverty so I should probably change my vote to something that you may have some understanding of. Now, if that's not luck, I don't know what it. It's possible to beat the odds, but it doesn't change them.
Lord451
2017-12-13 21:47:16 +0000 UTCNo. I'm saying it's a setback. What I'm pushing back against is the attitude that "success" is a matter of "luck" as a blanket statement. That, by corollary, a lack of success, or poverty, is a lack of luck. As an unanalyzed principle, it's used to develop resentment of those who are successful, despite how hard they work, to dismiss their effort, and the cause and effect their labors and ideas have to their amazing productivity. That kind of attitude is extremely toxic as an outlook, even for your own success and happiness. It causes us to overlook the bad decisions that lead to poverty in free societies, the pre-occupation with leisure instead of productivity, the envy that develops toward those who we *insist* didn't work very hard for their success, said as a blanket statement. This is a horrible attitude to go through life with, and it only holds you back, and so when I see comments about "luck" just casually tossed out there in regular language, I address it. This is the last thing I'm going to say on the matter.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 21:33:46 +0000 UTCJust to be straight are you implying that poor people are only poor because they're both lazy and have kids? And again, finding a statistical anomaly doesn't invalidate the rest of the pattern.
Lord451
2017-12-13 21:27:12 +0000 UTCAnd also having unplanned children, young, is a setback in a modern free society.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 21:23:17 +0000 UTCIt also helps to not have totalitarian political constraints holding back your economic mobility. But I would still offer that in stable African countries, there are mothers who are successful and happy because of their effort.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 21:20:36 +0000 UTCIf hard work is all it took to he wealthy, every mother in Africa would be a millionaire.
Lord451
2017-12-13 21:18:41 +0000 UTCThe biggest difference isn't having "rich" parents, however you're defining rich. But no matter what environment you have, you still have to bust ass to be successful, whether it's in school or in the realm of business, or just doing the best job you can. And it's also worth noting that being "rich" is not the definition of success and happiness.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 21:04:48 +0000 UTCI know. I've read your comics since you split off from BDK (or had some relationship. Its all a bit fuzzy). But when the biggest thing that sets aside entrepreneurs from regular folks is having rich parents, when being born wealthy is more likely to make you successful than s college education, there are a lot of stories missed by only focusing on those who had the chance to excel. The fact a pattern has outliers doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't a pattern.
Lord451
2017-12-13 21:01:35 +0000 UTCDude. Those two things you gave me a long time ago...
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 21:01:08 +0000 UTCMaybe. But it feels much better when a character made by someone else has some qualities you can relate to and that tends to make you like that character better. That's my opinion but I understand what you're saying.
Evirix
2017-12-13 21:00:01 +0000 UTCIf you need any research material for #7, hit me up ๐
MT_Fox
2017-12-13 20:55:32 +0000 UTCAt the same time I'm not sure a "this is like me" approach to character creation makes for the best and most interesting characters, by itself.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 20:52:50 +0000 UTCI'm (somewhat) mid-low class and raised poor so I'd love to see a fanmade character with those aspects. It would be like "you didn't make it far enough to have everything, but dammit you worked your ass off to get better than where you were and that's something to be proud of. "
Evirix
2017-12-13 20:50:39 +0000 UTCHmm, not sure of where she's located, so I don't know the true impact of this choice. Though on another note, Patreon admitted they screwed up on the fee system and are canceling it. Woot!
MKX Player
2017-12-13 20:17:04 +0000 UTCI never like the presumption that success is due to luck and poverty to the lack thereof.
Jay Naylor
2017-12-13 19:48:48 +0000 UTCI'd love to see a poor and raised poor. I think that's an area for a lot of interesting stories that tends to get neglected. Not everybody is lucky enough to be successful and I'd enjoy seeing the stories for those who things didn't work out for.
Lord451
2017-12-13 19:45:52 +0000 UTC2 is Basically my life now so I'll go with that hehe
pokediginut
2017-12-13 19:22:43 +0000 UTC
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