Ranger Two Weapon Fighting Damage
Added 2024-10-03 18:31:21 +0000 UTC
Comments
With Shillelagh scaling in damage, and still usable with dueling fighting style. Would quarterstaff + polearm master with Shillelagh help the ranger
Mike Cullen
2024-10-13 18:03:40 +0000 UTCMaybe I've missed it, but what about 2WF with Dual Wielder feat? My DM is worried about the damage output from that 4th attack at 5th level using the Nick property + Hex, and would rather see me take another feat. How would the damage ouput compare to, say, a barbarian with a great weapon?
Moozure (Ben Morrier)
2024-10-11 17:34:13 +0000 UTCThe range has access to the magic weapon spell. If the hunter uses every high level slot on that spell (1h duration) before the fight and taking dual wielder, the damage at level 20 for the naked ranger should be about 60 DPR (Assuming that it goes against a single big monster). And they don't need to invest in wisdom a lot. If the fight goes against many weak foes, conjure barrage or volley should help a lot. So I think you are underselling the ranger a bit here.
Manuel Kopp
2024-10-08 15:25:09 +0000 UTCI think if you do build for pure damage the monk can still hang with the big guys .
Jamien Ousey
2024-10-08 05:28:24 +0000 UTCTo add to this, it's concentration is not protected also so you need to invest in that. It's too much class already MAD.
Robert Fohrman
2024-10-07 13:45:49 +0000 UTCBut CWB also requires a whole action to activate, so it's not just Hunter's Mark that you're giving up, it's your entire attack routine in round 1. That's gonna leave you in a massive single-target damage deficit in round 1; you really need 3 or more enemies you can damage with CWB on round 1 to make up for the fact you're not attacking.
Gabe
2024-10-05 07:00:22 +0000 UTCI am not sure how much that would help with comparing damage output for different classes, as any class could benefit from racial/species spells.
David Knott
2024-10-05 04:40:20 +0000 UTCMulti target damage spells affect single targets too. It might not be an efficient use of the spell slot but if we are just evaluating a ranger on exactly one axis, why not include them? Even to a single target conjure woodland beings is hitting for 5d8 save for half. That has to be way better than 1d6 per hit (0 damage on a miss). That conjure woodland beings also affects any other enemies in the area is a bonus. It’s costing a much more valuable resource of course, but if the problem is that we can’t find uses for our spell slots to up our damage, why not include it? At least for 1 combat per day at 13th level, you can do what I imagine must be significantly more damage than hunters mark. (Ditto for other spells as well, CWE just happens to be a really good spell)
Chad S
2024-10-05 01:52:14 +0000 UTCI think the big issue I am seeing with the Fey Wanderer build is that the last useful thing you pick up from the ranger class or its subclass is that concentration free Summon Fey at 11th level. You only continue to take ranger levels because of the theme of this video series. Once you finish the current series of videos, I would imagine you constructing a build where you shift over to a full spellcasting class after 11th level in order to eventually have 8th level slots (at, for example, ranger 11/druid 9).
David Knott
2024-10-04 20:49:03 +0000 UTCThis is brilliant!
Krakenbreath
2024-10-04 19:10:20 +0000 UTCLooks like you are having trouble converting spell slots to single target damage. What about playing Tiefling and using hellish rebuke?
Daniel Renzi
2024-10-04 16:27:50 +0000 UTCWith dagger & hand crossbow combo, can you use nick and dual wielder attacks in same turn? If it is then Ranger's too can go up to around 60 damage at level 20.
Okan ŞANLI
2024-10-04 15:00:56 +0000 UTCThey are great skill monkeys, but are they better than rogues and bards who also get expertise? And Conjure Barrage and Conjure Volley are really the only spells that are exclusive AOE spells that can avoid allies. They’re great spells, but again rely on your save DC, which unless you build for WIS first will be lacking until tier 3-4, and the amount of times per day a Ranger can use them is lacking compared to full casters. Using our slots for Conjure Barrage (which is only an average of 22.5 dmg on a failed save) at level 11 and beyond might drop total DPR over the course of an adventuring day, looking at these calculations, as we wont have slots for Summon Fey. Don’t get me wrong, I still want to play some Ranger builds, but I definitely think WoTC messed up not giving Rangers better tier 3 damage scaling.
Oscar Espinosa
2024-10-04 13:10:16 +0000 UTCYeah- I actually did this all the time in play. I was actually using a bow not twf but I don't think that matters for the subclass ability. Very often I was moping up minions or multiple moderately tough creatures that had already been damage by our wizards fireballs. I was actually multiclassed into sorcerer for most of the adventure (leve l 6-11) before I was allowed a respec into full Fey wanderer at level 12, This was largely plot related.
Rob Mongar
2024-10-04 10:35:59 +0000 UTCYou may have already done a comparison for it Chris, but looking on this video I’m a little surprised you didn’t go Beast Master. You would burn through more slots but casting Wrathful Smite as you did looks like it would also aid your beast, meaning double damage from upcast smites. So a 3rd level smite nearly does 6d6 in damage and has two chances to proc fear on a target. I also think there’s a strong argument with TWF builds to go beast master as with Nick, you only give up 1 attack out of 3, if you were to use your BA for something else. Also, with a Beast of the Land you can count on knocking enemies prone at least some of the time, to grant you ADV (I think it’s reasonable to assume 20-25% of the time), which would also increase melee DPR. I will admit it’s obnoxious that the TWF focused Ranger that it feels like the Fey Ranger is supposed to be doesn’t do that well with it but I’m not sure this is really the best the TWF Ranger has to offer.
Keegan MBG
2024-10-04 10:35:50 +0000 UTCI actually disagree with that sentiment. Because you’re not including the skills within their roles, but more importantly you’re also not including the fact that they can hit way more AOE’s than anyone other than the Evocation Wizard and the Sorcerer, without hitting their allies. They have several decent spells that can hit enemies but not allies which is a huge boon. Also, the Ranger has good mobility for positioning.
Keegan MBG
2024-10-04 10:32:01 +0000 UTCYou don’t even have to drop a target, if you spread your attacks you can get the extra die every time, although I suppose that goes against the focus of single target.
Keegan MBG
2024-10-04 10:26:05 +0000 UTCSorry Chris! Really should have watched the whole video! Still I'll leave the comment up as a mark of my shame- it does apply for your initial section of the Fey Wanderer Ranger, buu you did correct on the second section. I found the crazy thing was casting summon Fey concentration free when you have a chance to setup for the battle and having multiple Fey summoned for a single battle. I would be interested to see the impact here assuming you can do that. I guess I can work it out... assuming all 3 fey summoned in one battle, +34DPR for one fight... over 4 fights its adding around 8.5 DPR but you don't lose the hunters mark DPR.
Rob Mongar
2024-10-04 10:02:11 +0000 UTCHey Chris- love the video, but I think you really undersold the impact of the Fey Wanderer subclass. I have played one to 13th level. I don't think you added the 1d4 or 1d6(level 11) from dreadful strikes at level 3. Thats +2.5 or +3.5 per round. You have a reasonable chance of adding this twice in a turn if a target is dropped, so I'd assume one extra application over a combat. Wiht a 95% chance of hitting at least once per round, I make that +3DPR from level 3 and +4DPR from level 11. Opps! should have watched the whole video! Not sure that I agree that you would never get the concentration free fey before combat. Anytime you are initiating it shouldnt be hard, and PC's normally get to initiate I have that adding about 8.2 DPR for 3 slots over 4 combats. Overall, I feel like you are short 3 DPR from level 3 to 8, there is an agument for concentration on Summon Fey at level 9 on two combats per round. It costs you roughly 8 DPR from losing hunters mark and gains you about 11 DPR. overall +6 DPR from level 9-10. At level 11 to 12 I feel you are about 14 DPR off. At level 13 onwards, the difference goes down to around 8 DPR.
Rob Mongar
2024-10-04 09:51:10 +0000 UTCAgain, haven't watched yet. My prediction is that the TWF ranger is going to be crazy at level 5 and go almost nowhere from there without spells being used.
Rob Mongar
2024-10-04 09:19:38 +0000 UTCHaven't watchedyet, this is the one I've been waiting for! (Ranger, sorcerer, bard Fanboy- played 4 Rangers in 2014.)
Rob Mongar
2024-10-04 09:17:26 +0000 UTCGreat thumbnail, it's really distracting me at work wondering what the problem is. My wildest theory is that you've discovered Hunters Mark is actually good.
Tessa Morecroft
2024-10-04 02:07:38 +0000 UTCThinking about it a bit, would a lvl 15 BM double up CWB?
Rene Vielman
2024-10-04 00:58:15 +0000 UTCThe problem is, there’s nothing exclusive to the Ranger really as far as AOE damage that can’t be done better by a full caster even if you go for max WIS first. Ranger is a jack of all trades , master of none, and it really shows with these calculations. You’re going to be a subpar martial and caster and have no real upside for it.
Oscar Espinosa
2024-10-04 00:03:04 +0000 UTCAfter a semi deep dive into a long bow with GWM its actually worse.
Joosh Wolfheart
2024-10-03 22:14:56 +0000 UTCGood news for my table, most of our game play is tier 1 and 2. This is also one aspect of the game, meaning having the utility of ALL of your spell slots brings so much more to the table. Tier 1 and 2, everything keeps pace. Tier 3 and 4, you have spells to create shenanigans that will be beneficial to the whole party. There is still a balance there.
Christopher Saczynski
2024-10-03 21:09:47 +0000 UTCWouldn’t we expect a big bump at level 13 then, [(2d6 + 7) x 2] vs [2d6 + 6] to help with late T3?
Rene Vielman
2024-10-03 21:01:57 +0000 UTCYes, I'm casting summon fey with higher level slots when possible
Treantmonk's Temple
2024-10-03 20:51:30 +0000 UTCWhy would you think it’ll be nerfed?
Ben Potts
2024-10-03 20:11:40 +0000 UTCIt would totally wreck lots, unfortunately we don't know how far the spell will be nerfed when it is
Jelte
2024-10-03 19:38:24 +0000 UTCAre you upcasting summon fey?, also, it kinda defeats the point of HM, but conjure woodland beings would also be a nice DPR bump for both single and multi target
Rene Vielman
2024-10-03 19:19:25 +0000 UTCIn my build I did go duel welder the damage at round 5 is in the 30s. That's with assuming needed to cast hunters mark round 1 and move it round 3. I'm going to see what it can do at level 8 with sentinel assume 25% chance of it triggering. It Melee ranger is stagnant levels 9-16 on the white board anyway Now lighting arrow does work with daggers and thrown weapons so there's might be your damage boost at level 9. But I think you really need to look at there aoe potential which you can't calculate on single target damage. Rangers will live in this world of single target early aoe later
Adam Gillis
2024-10-03 19:07:22 +0000 UTC
