Sword and Shield and TWF Paladin Damage in 2024
Added 2024-10-01 17:03:43 +0000 UTC
Comments
Tiny nitpick, but considering the weapons likely used, they wouldn't necessarily be dex based. I pretty sure they all have the finesse property. (at least the ones used in the video.
PerpetuallyUnnamed
2024-10-03 18:18:57 +0000 UTCWell there is still the ranger's fighting style where they can pick 2 druid cantrips, including magic stone. Then you are technically sad, but at the same time I think the action economy cost is too high.
PerpetuallyUnnamed
2024-10-03 18:15:06 +0000 UTCYep though lighting arrow would probably always do more than a bonus action attack hail of thorns would do more possible at 2nd level. But it is weird the arrow spell works with a dagger but the thorn spell only work with ranged weapon.
Adam Gillis
2024-10-02 23:46:35 +0000 UTCLightning arrow does work with some Melee weapons (it says prereq needs to be a “ranged attack”, so thrown weapons work for this), but hail of thorns specifically says after you hit with a Ranged weapon. Funny enough, the spell that literally says “arrow” can work with non-ranged weapons and hail of thorns (more general) doesn’t. Edit: if you were thinking CBE or sharpshooter, then yes, these would then work in melee range, since you are still making “ranged attacks” also with Range weapons
Dan Macke
2024-10-02 23:34:20 +0000 UTCSo a significant source of damage vs a S&B right there who gets nothing on a miss. Graze on any weapon at a very high level would be nice
DOUGLAS REYNOLDS
2024-10-02 19:45:06 +0000 UTCAgreed. You probably crit about once per fight maybe every other fight at a useful time so at level 9-10 you can use a third level slot for 36 damage vs ~11 twice per day which is around 3 DPR. It is super marginal in general and pretty high variance and if the spells work well in some other way (say magic weapon) you might be better off there. The 2wf paladin does only use level 1 spells in damage boosting leaving all their best spells for other things, which is admittedly not much different from using half your spells until level 11 or so anyway.
Jonathan Pickles
2024-10-02 18:11:42 +0000 UTCGraze is simple a 40% chance to miss that would be 2 extra DPR per attack if we assume +5 modifier a Fighter at level 11 would increase their DPR by 6 Graze could allow a level 20 Fighter with Polearm Master deal a minimum of 25 damage per turn if they are attacking 5 times on rounds with action surge thats 45 minimum damage and 9 concentration saves a caster would have to make lol
Robert Lavallee
2024-10-02 18:07:50 +0000 UTCGreat video How significant is graze damage, perhaps some math without a greatsword. wish the weapon mastery at higher levels would allow vex and graze and cleave, maybe at 14th level even
DOUGLAS REYNOLDS
2024-10-02 16:00:10 +0000 UTCRegarding your next ranger builds, I have been wondering if a SAD dual wielding ranger is possible. RAW could you dual wield a scimitar and club and replace the scimitar attack with your animal while still benefiting from Nick? If not you’ll always have one DEX based attack so not totally SAD but it could still work
Chad S
2024-10-02 13:30:30 +0000 UTCLevel 4-7 (DEX 18) your DW attack is 7.5 damage, 10 if Divine Favor is active. Those figures (if bumping DEX to 20 at level 8) are 8.5 and 11, respectively, between levels 8-10, and 13 and 15.5 levels 11+. Multiply all those figures by expected hit chance (.84 with advantage) and that's what the DW adds on average. A 1st-level Divine Smite adds 18 to a crit with no chance to miss. 2nd-level 27, 3rd-level 36. So you'd compare those figures to the DW damage from above. It depends on your level, but IMO a 1st-level crit smite is still worth the slot through level 5 or 6. 2nd-level crit smite still worth it through level 10. Level 11 or higher, probably has to be a 3rd-level slot or higher to really make an impact over a DW attack.
Gabe
2024-10-02 04:00:35 +0000 UTCI wonder if it would make sense to sacrifice the bonus action attack to smite on Crits. In other words, if one of the initial three attacks crit, you use your bonus action to smite, knowing that the damage dice are doubled, if none of those attacks crit you use the bonus action to attack.
Charles L Allen
2024-10-02 02:14:14 +0000 UTCDevotion dual wielders are still good with Vex + Nick. Sacred Weapon your shortsword to make it hit more often, and thus inflict Vex more often for the follow-up Nicks and DW attacks.
Gabe
2024-10-01 23:59:16 +0000 UTCI wonder how different twf would look if you went without DW and instead just took the extra attack from nick and utilized both divine favour and smites.
Nick Fovargue
2024-10-01 23:04:52 +0000 UTCI've been doing. My own math with the ranger. Dual welding rangers are beast levels 1-8 but then they stay stagnant until level 17 when they get thay permanent advantage. If you don't want to get your Dual welding ranger stagnant. You might want to go sentinel at 8 and piercer at 12 or another damage boosting feat there. But ranged rangers do have extra damage boost hail of thorns and lighting arrow (works with melee ranger too) do work like mini smites.
Adam Gillis
2024-10-01 19:13:30 +0000 UTCHmmm, at first I thought that comparison was a bit unfair as Vow of Enemity is a bit redundant with Vex we get from Shortsword and I was convinced that devotion Paladin would be better for Dual Wielder. And then I read that Sacred Weapon only works with one weapon so its not nearly as good as I hoped unfortunately. Tho I think that in case of crits (and you can expect them with lots of attack with advantage) we would still probably want to smite sometime as dual wielder Paladin.
Kaien
2024-10-01 18:07:56 +0000 UTCI’m excited to see how Paladin matches up to the other martials. I made a revised 2024 Ranger mechanically similar to the new Ranger so I’m interested how Paladin/ Ranger compare
Kleyo
2024-10-01 17:11:48 +0000 UTC
