Summon Sign, Episode 43 | Until Dawn Remake is a Mess
Added 2024-10-22 16:00:14 +0000 UTCThis week Colin and Gene join Brad and talk about both versions of Until Dawn, Dino Crisis, Horizon: Forbidden West and more!
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:06:15 - Halloween Games
00:26:40 - Until Dawn
00:53:58 - Dino Crisis
01:09:03 - Horizon: Forbidden West
01:42:42 - Sort It Out
02:02:04 - Keep It Up
02:16:08 - Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
02:30:58 - Metaphor: ReFantazio
02:55:53 - Closing Questions
Comments
There was a moment in Burning Shores that I felt exemplified a major problem with the series. Essentially, a dino bursts on the screen and instantly crushes a throw away character (but who has been given some personality) and I say, “OH SHIT!” but no one in the game does. The characters need to express wider ranges of emotion. The peaks/valleys of surprise, fear, sadness, anger, etc. should be tangible but they aren’t. Clive Rosfield came up in the discussion. He wasn’t a perfect character but you could really feel his highs and lows. Aloy needs so much more of that.
Steve Bitto
2024-11-01 15:35:14 +0000 UTCColin knew he was trapped when Brad asked what Metroid Prime is 🤣
Glen Yelenovic
2024-11-01 13:00:26 +0000 UTCSorry Colin, there are certainly 3D Metroidvania games
Glen Yelenovic
2024-11-01 12:59:10 +0000 UTCVampires in the 80s? The Lost Boys
Steve Bitto
2024-11-01 11:31:09 +0000 UTCAlso, why are we insisting on the greatness and novelty of HZD to the point of guilt tripping the audience for not appreciating it enough? Wouldn’t a simpler explanation just be that HZD is clearly missing something? It might be really cool in all of these ways but the X factor just isn’t there. I feel like there’s nothing wrong with just admitting that Aloy isn’t a compelling protagonist and that actually matters.
Trill Spencer
2024-10-28 03:51:34 +0000 UTCColin: 3D metroidvania doesn’t exist, Metroid prime isn’t a metroidvania because yada yada Brad 3 minutes later: so what if we called it a 3D metroidvania? Colin: yeah that’s fine I guess 😂
Trill Spencer
2024-10-28 03:47:31 +0000 UTCYeah I remember now. I’m hoping for an individual game discussion like Colin was saying
Alec Davis
2024-10-28 00:37:48 +0000 UTCI’m like 99% sure this exists. Edit: Yup, SS+, episode 385.
Alan Wake 2 - Alan WOKE
2024-10-28 00:09:31 +0000 UTCPlease do a Castlevania in depth episode
Alec Davis
2024-10-25 16:57:46 +0000 UTCWell if you’re trying to get me to defend the Spider-Man and Until Dawn spoiler casts, I will not be doing that.
WashedAF
2024-10-25 14:39:51 +0000 UTCThis cope lmao.
Big titty drinker
2024-10-25 14:38:44 +0000 UTCLet’s see how the third one sells when it’s not forcibly bundled in as a stealth price increase
WashedAF
2024-10-25 14:36:40 +0000 UTCUntil Dawn... They don't return to the cabin to commemorate the death... they return because it was a tradition to camp there every year before their friends died, so they are simply keeping the tradition alive (no pun intended).
Kevin Cooper
2024-10-25 14:05:05 +0000 UTCBrad got Colin good haha, Metroid Prime is totally a Metroidvania
Greg McDonald
2024-10-25 09:50:07 +0000 UTCReally wish Brad didn't pick the Jedi Survivor write in and the audience would just stop writing in to Colin about Star Wars, I lose brain cells every time he goes on one of his retarded Star Wars rants, he doesn't want to talk about it and I'm sick of hearing him talk about it
Macro
2024-10-25 07:45:19 +0000 UTCGene, Spoiling things is fine if we know it’s coming. Just give a warning before telling us for example what a future party members name is and what they look like in a jRPG. Not a big deal very minor spoiler but just an example. It results in me just skipping games with stories I care about if I’m actively playing through em. Nice episode gents!
Bartevious
2024-10-25 07:33:30 +0000 UTCMy name is also Ryan, and I share the same sentiments
Ryan Zimm
2024-10-24 17:21:42 +0000 UTCNo more than just about every video game protagonist anyway. There’s a certain element of “this character can do anything and every other character relies on them” to every video game protagonist, especially in open worlds, because that’s just how quests are set up.
Jared R
2024-10-24 17:03:28 +0000 UTCI live in Charlotte and my boss is a Jets, Panthers, and App State Mountaineers fan. I'm just not gonna talk to him for a month out of fear
Gooch Gobbler
2024-10-24 14:19:08 +0000 UTCStarting it tonight! I loved Little Hope. Man of Medan sucked, and House of Ashes was....interesting haha I'm just glad we get these for free cause I would never pay for them. I played like an hour or two of the Quary and noped out
Gooch Gobbler
2024-10-24 14:07:46 +0000 UTCIt was funny hearing Colin try to reason himself through that conversation. "You are coming off as racist". Yeah that's because it is racist lol Sometimes you just gotta call it what it is
Gooch Gobbler
2024-10-24 14:02:55 +0000 UTCBad Colin takes abound in this episode. The Jedi games are absolutely metroidvanias and it is one of the best stories in recent games period, let alone Star Wars
Gooch Gobbler
2024-10-24 13:52:41 +0000 UTCI think Until Dawn is the best example of a game that I’ve heard more discussions on podcasts about, going back to its release, and honestly I’ve not seen a single second of footage of the game. A few passing screenshots maybe. I know it was shown during one of the conferences back in the day (because again that is non stopped talked about) , but must have been one I didn’t see. For sure more a me thing, but it’s funny when this type of thing can happen lol
Zack E
2024-10-24 12:52:32 +0000 UTCShe’s literally not a Mary Sue. To each their own but that was a silly opinion.
Zack E
2024-10-24 12:48:18 +0000 UTCI promise I’m asking this in good faith, because I really want there to be good and healthy conversations about this rather than left wing whining and right wing crying. In the last three major AC games before Mirage, there were female assassin/warriors in time periods where it didn’t make sense (Origins, Odyssey, Valhalla). There was very little to complaints about those. There’s also Liberation and Chronicles: Russia, which are spin-off games admittedly, but the same thing. Nobody was up in arms, and in fact, a lot of people find the females more interesting than their male counterparts (especially Kassandra in Odyssey for me. Very much in the same vein as Fem!Shep just being executed better than Male!Shep in Mass Effect). When it comes to Yasuke, I get that his status as a Samurai historically has become dubious academically, but there have been legit historians talking about him in that context for a while, enough for people who write historical fiction involving the Knights Templar and a secret order of Assassins being architects of the American Revolution just looking to history for inspiration to latch onto it without much question for sure. When you read about him in that context: an African slave who warlords all wanted to see because he was a behemoth of a man compared to everyone else in Japan at the time, who gets taken into the service of one of these warlords and made into a samurai, and who fights in a major historical battle during one of the more colorful eras of Japanese history; and then you’re making a game in a series that’s historically about outcasts/oppressed people fighting power and oppression (literally what all of the Assassin/Templar conflict is framed around), do you not see how the writers would think “Man, this guy from history would slot really well into our game series and be a super interesting character!” rather than just “How do we slot a black man into Japan?” So in the context of this and just what AC has always been historically, which is historical fiction that’s always taken extreme liberty with the historical aspects of itself, what makes AC: Shadows different than AC’s ever been?
Jared R
2024-10-24 12:28:45 +0000 UTCShe sucks dude
Ryan
2024-10-24 12:12:39 +0000 UTCSubnautica 2 wasn’t set in a place or era where a black and female protagonist are completely out of the norm. It’s in space on an alien planet lol. Subnautica 2 also didn’t feature those characters after 15 years of fans waiting for the game and wanting a semblance of accuracy in its depiction of the people who lived there.
Ryan
2024-10-24 12:11:41 +0000 UTCHonestly I think Horizon would be the franchise that Sony wants it to be if they didn’t have Aloy or she was actually well written and not the biggest black hole of charisma and excitement.
Ryan
2024-10-24 12:08:18 +0000 UTCHorizon Forbidden West is my 3rd favorite game of all time-time behind The Last of Us Part I and Part II. I’m a big fan of Aloy too. I actually really like her more grounded and stoic personality. I don’t agree with Gene though about her being a Mary Sur because she basically hits rock bottom about 10 hours into HFW and that event sets her character development for the rest of the game (i.e. learning how to trust other people and asking for help instead of trying to do everything herself).
Jim Capron
2024-10-24 11:17:41 +0000 UTCI’m a couple of hours into Metaphor and after finally finishing Silent Hill 2 and I’m liking it. Even thought Brad and Gene talked about how this game is also on last gen regarding the graphics I swear to God I’m going crazy but these graphics feel way more like early ps3 gen which is insane lol.
Breno Bezerra Bluhm
2024-10-24 10:53:44 +0000 UTCParasite Eve takes place over Christmas but I don't think it was part of the plot.
AngelOfCake
2024-10-24 09:45:49 +0000 UTCLoved Forbidden West. Burning Shores was eh. I don’t recommend it. I disagree with the FW characters not being good though. Varl is the homie. Had 1 of the biggest moments in the game for me. I couldn’t get into the Arkham series but I play the shit out of the Insomniac Spideys. 😅
NeO JD
2024-10-24 05:35:16 +0000 UTCTales of Kenzera failed because over 20 Metroidvanias were released that month, and it didn’t play differently enough to stand out. Even with a shitload of free press and a huge budget for the genre. Nobody cared because it was just average. That’s the truth. If you want to make a profitable Metroidvania, JRPG, platformer, or any other traditional genre, you MUST do something new with the gameplay or nobody is going to give a fuck. If you just want to tell a story then write a book.
Jimmy G
2024-10-24 05:32:35 +0000 UTCThey’ll add in Charlie, a 3rd clone who somehow got better looking. 😅
NeO JD
2024-10-24 05:30:00 +0000 UTCI like Immortals of Aveum until I got to a part that had me doing more jump puzzle style stuff than actual combat. If they got rid of those parts and just had combat, I know it would’ve sold more.
NeO JD
2024-10-24 05:27:37 +0000 UTCI might be in the minority in that the thing I dislike most about Horizon is the gameplay.
Alan Wake 2 - Alan WOKE
2024-10-24 03:26:41 +0000 UTCIt was one of the best-selling games of last year - it should've gotten a spoiler cast. C'mon. Freakin' Until Dawn got a spoiler cast this year because Colin didn't like how hardly anyone covered the remake. If Until Dawn, a 2015 game, can get a spoiler cast, surely Star Wars - Jedi: Survivor can. Not to mention the THREE spoiler casts from LSM last year dedicated to Insomniac's Spider-Man games (Marvel's Spider-Man, Marvel's Spider-Man: The City Never Sleeps DLC, and Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales). I'm not saying Colin should've done it, but it's disappointing that we never got one from anyone at LSM. Really thought Matty would've at least tried to get one started since he's the only one at LSM who remotely likes Star Wars. Also, it's their job to cover games :)
Faan
2024-10-24 00:33:26 +0000 UTCthey know that dude…Gene was just making a joke since Horizon gets shit on so much, including from people on LSM.
Michael McCoy
2024-10-23 23:07:08 +0000 UTCThere’s a ton of horizon fans idk yall so obsessed with pushing this false narrative. Just because something gets bashed online doesn’t mean it isn’t popular. Sonys commitment to making games for the Ip and its sales prove how strong its fanbase is.
Big titty drinker
2024-10-23 22:42:22 +0000 UTCHoly shit. Just checked out the video I think Colin was referring to. May be single digits for that guys IQ. 😂
Gray Gordon
2024-10-23 22:18:54 +0000 UTCI love horizon and it’s my favorite gaming series right now by far. I’ve said this multiple times before and I’ll say it again , Colin does not realize how much of an echo chamber he is inside of. Horizon only really receives hate from vocal minority on the internet and forums. But in the real world the Ip is basically beloved ( which is why it sells well and Sony keeps making 30 of them)
Big titty drinker
2024-10-23 22:16:40 +0000 UTCLots of bigots hiding behind the this is woke crowd. Tbh who cares if you don't like it. All you have to do is don't consume it. The world isn't better for this woke witch hunt garbage
Wayde
2024-10-23 21:47:41 +0000 UTCI think the issue with horizons's characters isn't that they're ridiculously bad, it's that they're just bland and forgettable as hell. I'm with y'all that the world of horizon is super interesting but it's hard to care about it when the conduits through which that lore is delivered are nothing to write home about
Seany Mac
2024-10-23 20:19:24 +0000 UTCLove forbidden west. By far the best character in the series is Sylens. It sucks that the voice actor died😞
Matthew Christ
2024-10-23 19:41:18 +0000 UTCJedi Survivor was a technical mess when it released. I love the game, but it didn’t “deserve” anything. Still a stuttering mess on PC btw
WashedAF
2024-10-23 18:12:08 +0000 UTCI think of Horizon the same way I do about Mad Max. Mad Max and Aloy are the least interesting thing in their respective worlds. They arnt bad protagonist, just outshined by the world's they live in.
Jacob Lesperance
2024-10-23 17:58:18 +0000 UTCIf the issue was merely things race/gender swapping (making James Bond a woman or April O’Neal black), I’d be all about what they say when it comes to complaints about the culture wars. However, it just seems so inconsistent when they talk about this. For example, Subnautica 2 can happen have a black man and an Asian woman be the main characters and that’s not woke, but when AC: Shadows does it, it’s an issue? There’s a black man, who’s a real historical figure, as a duel main character, along with a native Japanese woman. Why does game A have Colin defending it, but then game B gets “I’m noticing?” How come game A is fine as is, but game B gets “I’m disappointed I can’t play as a Japanese man :(.” It was hard to listen to that Sort It Out and take it seriously, because it seems like they often do the exact same things being complained about.
Jared R
2024-10-23 15:34:49 +0000 UTCFor real. He’s talked so much about Immortals of Aveum too. I just played it on his constant recommendation. Big mistake. That game is not good. Lol.
Del Griffith
2024-10-23 14:28:04 +0000 UTCBeen playing Doki Doki LC and holy crap does this game turn.
Drew Lee
2024-10-23 12:51:49 +0000 UTCGene might be onto something about Alloy not giving up the pussy and everyone hating her for it. People are always bitching about games being too woke now. Imagine how people would react if Alloy showed up hot as fuck in Horizon 3. People wouldn’t know what to do
Tristan Kimball
2024-10-23 12:28:28 +0000 UTCThat’s Colin’s thing is playing games that are under the radar or overlooked. Nothing new here. I haven’t played until dawn since it released but i still find the conversation about it interesting
Tristan Kimball
2024-10-23 09:57:59 +0000 UTCThis is a really good combo for Summon Sign.
Flint Dibble and the Dibble singers
2024-10-23 07:35:41 +0000 UTCAlways laugh when Gene complains about having something spoiled then proceeds to spoil it for the listeners.
Ed
2024-10-23 06:56:36 +0000 UTCfavorite game I played this year. Plays like a motherf*cker
Adam Belgharbi
2024-10-23 05:52:40 +0000 UTCnah now we’re gonna do a 2 part until dawn spoiler cast. for both versions of the game.
Gene Park
2024-10-23 02:10:13 +0000 UTCThat was actually my least favorite Dark Pictures game.
Joseph Gedgaudas
2024-10-23 01:27:17 +0000 UTCCan Colin find a more irrelevant game to cover show after show?
Vanzant
2024-10-23 00:43:18 +0000 UTCi felt that too right?! lol
Gene Park
2024-10-22 21:33:14 +0000 UTCLol it felt like brad was getting real competitive about who was further in metaphor 🤣
Zachary
2024-10-22 21:23:18 +0000 UTCas the only horizon fans on earth we should.
Gene Park
2024-10-22 21:20:42 +0000 UTCgood for you asshole /s
Gene Park
2024-10-22 21:20:24 +0000 UTCthey’d better do something fun with it other than us running really fast toward nothing lol
Gene Park
2024-10-22 21:20:03 +0000 UTCColin I just beat the Dark Pictures Devil in me. I think it’s the best one of the series. Classic serial killer story.
Shawn Kelvey Jr
2024-10-22 21:14:46 +0000 UTCI guarantee I’m further Gene lol
Zachary
2024-10-22 20:19:36 +0000 UTCMan, people’s “complaints” about Aloy are so lame but whatever.
Zack E
2024-10-22 19:57:05 +0000 UTCCastlevania II is fucking awesome IF you have a guide with you.
Diddy’s Dong Quest
2024-10-22 19:29:37 +0000 UTCI completed all 3 of the Castlevania DS games in about a week or two, but I definitely abused the rewind feature if I got hit one too many times. Definitely a great feature to ensure victory.
Shadi Haddad
2024-10-22 19:05:52 +0000 UTCKeep It Up to high quality horror game remakes!
John
2024-10-22 18:46:38 +0000 UTCColin needs to hop on the detroit lions bandwagon
Jay
2024-10-22 18:43:59 +0000 UTCIf Gene and Colin do a spoiler cast for Horizon FW again 2 years later I will legit donate another 5 bucks this month lmao
A Hind D
2024-10-22 18:26:09 +0000 UTCIt's a little ironic to ask for more of the funny from the man who is doing all the "everyone who thinks differently or disagrees with me is evil and weak and terrible for the country. Everyone who isn't 100% aligned with me is the deep state and a danger to the country"
Dmnsrage
2024-10-22 18:04:22 +0000 UTCGene, they have confirmed that the famous Raiders boulder scene is in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (probably in the prologue), so your hypothetical example of Indy running away from it while showing nothing behind him might become reality. Here's to hoping they pull a Crash Bandicoot with that camera angle when the moment comes.
Adam Razak
2024-10-22 17:38:23 +0000 UTCJedi Survivor is a great game, feels like it went massively under the radar. Performance was a mess at launch but I still platinumed it, top, top game.
Cormac
2024-10-22 17:23:34 +0000 UTCThank you for reading my question, Brad! Really appreciate it :) In response to Colin's point about 3D metroidvanias, I disagree to an extent here. Batman: Arkham Asylum is 100% inspired by 2D metroidvanias in its design and is the best example of a 3D metroidvania. 3D metroidvanias are definitely very far and few between, but they're still a better descriptor than merely an 'adventure' game. I get why Colin refuses to play Star Wars - Jedi: Survivor. Fine, it is what it is, lol. But to make fun of people who like Star Wars? If that's your prerogative, alright. But boi, you like G.I. Joe and you respect the Marvel movies (lmao, how ironic). Maybe don't make fun of others for liking nerdy stuff? Back to Star Wars - Jedi: Survivor. It's a good game! I wish you would've addressed the fact that NO ONE AT LSM bothered to do a spoiler cast for it. It was one of the major releases of 2023, and I would've loved to hear people's thoughts on it. You're doing a spoiler cast with Cog soon for some anime game that came out over the summer, which is so much more niche. Call me cranky, fine, but the major tentpole releases of a year deserve a spoiler cast, period (with or without Colin). It's yo damn job.
Faan
2024-10-22 16:52:29 +0000 UTCGood to see Colin back. He hasn’t been on constellation in awhile so not hearing him as often
Robbie Agnew
2024-10-22 16:50:13 +0000 UTCI don’t know about you guys, but waking up to a new episode of Summon Sigh really makes my bread rise.
Link
2024-10-22 16:25:09 +0000 UTCColin as a panthers fan I relate to your jets fandom deeply
Yeti ATL
2024-10-22 16:03:50 +0000 UTC
