FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E7 - The Enemy
Added 2024-05-09 17:07:17 +0000 UTC
Comments
I'm trying to remember, but I don't think audiences really paid that much attention to the opening credits back then. Kind of a, "Once you've seen one, you've seen them all" for the rest of the season. I feel it was more of a time to wrap up your house hold tasks/family chats.
Mark
2024-05-12 21:13:20 +0000 UTC๐
Jason Biggs
2024-05-12 01:26:09 +0000 UTCGreat discussion. We get to see more from Geordi's visor than we had before.
TโPynyn of Vulcan
2024-05-11 23:09:08 +0000 UTCA neat little detail that you guys might start noticing this season. The viewscreen isn't a big TV monitor, it's a 3-D hologram. Notice that when the camera is aimed right at it, you see Tomalak straight on, but when the camera moves to the side, you see the side of his face and the wall of his bridge off to his right. (They started that in season 2, but it became much more consistent in season 3.)
tyranusfan
2024-05-11 22:14:32 +0000 UTCI like this episode for Worf's decision. He isn't human. Despite his upbringing on Earth, he's still a Klingon, with a Klingon moral compass. To a Klingon, a blood enemy is a blood enemy, and forgiving them isn't a thing like it would be with humans. That defines Worf's character much better than the grunting and growling that was pretty much all he did in the first two seasons.
tyranusfan
2024-05-11 22:12:00 +0000 UTCedit
Sam Langanke
2024-05-11 22:09:41 +0000 UTCNot to mention "Planet Hell," which had both caves and a "surface." Two levels they could use for everything.
tyranusfan
2024-05-11 22:07:09 +0000 UTCLate to watching this. I have to ask, did Tony Khan fear for his life during the reaction?
Retro Tom
2024-05-11 19:19:11 +0000 UTChttps://images.app.goo.gl/SgRMUaNHvKV2RD5i9
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-05-11 16:45:29 +0000 UTCLate to the party! Sorry about that, I've ripped all the DVD files onto an external drive, and (mental health shit) struggled to be bothered to swap my OTHER external drive out in place of my TNG drive. But anyway, I was thinking about Worf's dilemma re "donating". it would have been a HUGE shit in the face of the dying Romulan for Worf to "pollute" his body with his "Klingon filth". I would have done it just to spite the guy.
Ee'char
2024-05-11 16:43:03 +0000 UTCXenophobic might be more accurate, but essentially the same thing
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-05-11 01:54:33 +0000 UTCI've heard a good few people, particularly ones who grew up in the 90s, refer to Picard as a role model. It's a sentiment I share.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-05-11 01:48:50 +0000 UTCNo, but I have no doubt he would donate to save a ship mate. Clearly the bigger issue was WHO he was asked to donate to.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-05-11 01:45:13 +0000 UTCAnd sometimes predicting but being 180ยฐ off.
Greg Quinn
2024-05-10 18:33:01 +0000 UTCHaha, great discussion. I'm sure Romulans, being very into espionage, have most of their personnel familiarized with common Federation tech. Even in WWII soldiers of most armies were made familiar with their enemy's equipment.
Charles D.
2024-05-10 16:53:22 +0000 UTCThe idea of these alien civilizations not being anything but a mono-society is hilarious. We only ever see Klingons as warriors. We only ever see Romulans as a devious and secretive military. Because somewhere there has to be a Klingon janitor. Does he look at litter on the ground and say "this is WITHOUT honor"? Does the second Klingon chef decide the Gagh has too much salt, decide the head chef has acted dishonorably, and kill him to take his place?
JGoss
2024-05-10 16:32:53 +0000 UTCDon't get me wrong, I do like McCarthy's work. An episode midway through season 3, he did an excellent job.
JGoss
2024-05-10 16:30:22 +0000 UTCThey don't seem to consider production things spoilers, such as people being hired and fired, UNLESS it's a cast member.
JGoss
2024-05-10 16:29:35 +0000 UTCDon't know how much of a spoiler future scores are, but there's one prominent use of his score that I really like down the line.
Evan Guthrie
2024-05-10 15:42:19 +0000 UTCStop reading my boring takes! Save it for my bangers!
Evan Guthrie
2024-05-10 15:41:29 +0000 UTCI agree it really is racism. I would say he has a reason to feel the way he does but that does not validate his willingness to let someone die who he could save without putting himself at risk in any way. I understand why Picard didnt force him but its interesting last season he would not let Worf out of his duty working with K'Ehleyr for personal reasons. This seems a much better time for Picard to over rule him.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-05-10 14:37:42 +0000 UTCCould Klingons or Romulons even qualify as being racist? If that's a human term neither of them are human. Depends on how one defines it, I suppose.
KatWithAttitude
2024-05-10 13:41:03 +0000 UTCThe Romulan military is never brought up by Worf or anyone as the issue Worf has in this episode. Is a Romulan โcivilianโ even a thing? I guess if it was a Romulan child Worf may feel differently. Interesting thought.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-05-10 12:53:46 +0000 UTCI don't think Worf's attitude qualifies as racism. "This Romulan" may not have killed Worf's parents, but as a member of the Romulan military, he is part of the same organization that killed Worf's parents.
Regan
2024-05-10 12:27:16 +0000 UTCContemporary medical ethics and legality would hold that once the Romulan said he didn't want a transfusion from Worf, it was off the table. Of course while the Romulan was unconscious there would have been a assumption of a desire for treatment.
Greg Quinn
2024-05-10 09:41:42 +0000 UTCNo, that was 'Rocky IV'.
Numinous2019
2024-05-10 08:43:58 +0000 UTCExcellent comment. Thank you.
Numinous2019
2024-05-10 08:42:24 +0000 UTC๐คฃ
Numinous2019
2024-05-10 08:39:30 +0000 UTCI like Dennis McCarthy, but uh yeah, sometimes you forget there's any music in his episodes.
JGoss
2024-05-10 06:19:46 +0000 UTCIt's a good episode, but I wouldn't even put it in the top 10 of the season. Sometimes a single scene makes an episode, but I tire from the rest. With The Bonding, the "why do you ask" scene was the best part. In this one, Worf and Picard Ready Room scene was the most fascinating part.
JGoss
2024-05-10 06:18:58 +0000 UTCI don't think we can say enough in favor of Picard's moral compass. Gene Roddenberry's concept of a perfectly enlightened, perfectly ethical future human society has always been a character drama-killer and always been a bit ludicrous to imagine actually happening, but if anyone completely encapsulates the vision of what a 24th century human should be, it's Jean-Luc Picard.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-05-10 02:37:53 +0000 UTCThat reminds me of the marketing campaign for Psycho. I seem to remember the ads saying "NO ONE will be admitted after the beginning of the movie" or something like that in order to preserve the audience's experience of the twist. The theatrical trailer is also famous for having NO footage of the actual movie.
Eric Brinkmann
2024-05-10 00:45:45 +0000 UTCI have an hour to hour and a half commute to and from work everyday, drive a junker Impala (which I keep mechanically sound) that is 20 years old, so I bought a Bose set of bluetooth run speakers and set it up in my car so I could at least listen to your discussion videos on the way home from work. Works great, listened to this on the way home today. Great discussion.
Monty Crawford
2024-05-09 23:32:27 +0000 UTC"The expense to build a whole set you're going to only use one time." Lol. You guys didn't notice that the Colony settlement in Ensigns of Command and the Mintakan village were the same place? (Of course you didn't, I didn't my first several times either) 90's Trek really had the "set redress" practice down. Filled with different textures and props, filmed from different angles, actually manages to be mostly effective. The set of the Survivors house and the girl from the colony that kissed Data, also the same set. I think every season they build basic sets to meet the needs of eps early in the season, then reconfigure the best basic set that'll best meet their needs.
Nolan
2024-05-09 20:58:02 +0000 UTCFor a moment I was confused about Picard hanging up on Shelley Hack before I remembered the aliens.
Phillip Grischa
2024-05-09 20:54:26 +0000 UTCYou see the thing is, back in the '80s we were all pretty convinced that someday fairly soon some idiot was going to push a button and kill everybody. We didn't really care about little things like spoilers back then now we're too stupid to realize that we're still in the same predicament
harrypothead42024
2024-05-09 20:49:07 +0000 UTCWorfs whole thing is about bodily autonomy. No one can force, or compel you to donate blood or an organ against your will. Just saying ๐โโ๏ธ
Philbot
2024-05-09 20:47:51 +0000 UTCI don't know, man. All this negativity is really bumming me out.
Steven Johnson
2024-05-09 20:13:38 +0000 UTCIt's TOTALLY fair to judge the teasers by today's values. We've gone from TV deliberately spoiling the end of TNG just for viewing figures, to movie studios filming scenes for the trailers that never end up in the film. Marvel even lies about what the movie will be about and who will be in it.
Leyton Jay
2024-05-09 19:56:56 +0000 UTCThis episode ended the Cold War!
Steven Linden
2024-05-09 19:38:59 +0000 UTCRegarding the discussion about spoilers - I think what has changed is not just how much importance people place on spoilers, but what a spoiler is considered to BE. Something like the end of ESB or, to take a Star Trek example, Spock's death in WoK, was always considered a spoiler and it was always bad form to share those. (There was a movie in the '50s, Les Diaboliques, that ended with a title card asking the audience not to spoil the twist for their friends). What's different nowadays is that it's not just plot twists or endings that are considered spoilers; pretty much any details about the plot, or even what characters will appear in something, are considered as such. Not saying either way was better than the other, just trying to put it into context. People didn't worry about things like the credits revealing that Gates McFadden was back not because they didn't care about spoilers, but because it wouldn't have occurred to them that that WAS a spoiler.
Steven Linden
2024-05-09 19:36:55 +0000 UTCThe Romulans were apparently sent on a secret mission. Socially, it's probably drummed into every Romulan that Romulan dignity must never be compromised with another species. And any exposure of the Romulan Empire borders on treason. No Romulan caught by another species should expect the Empire to "admit" anything so as to save his life. - We also see this in the behavior of the first Romulan. He immediately claimed that he was traveling alone so that Starfleet would have no reason to investigate the scene of the accident and the wreckage or the planet. - And when Bochra approached his superior at the end, his first statement was "I didn't make any statements." This is also a very clear sign of fear and a briefing for secret missions. - Tomalak also didn't want to admit that a second Romulan was there. Everyone knows what's going on and is united in their approach. The only time Tomalak let his pants down was when he responded to the Romulan distress call from his people. He seemed seriously worried then. However, I believe his primary reason for crossing the line (once he knew the Enterprise was in orbit) was so he could resolve the situation and prevent the Romulan Empire from being compromised. And yet, to the best of his ability, he stood up for the supposed sole survivor of the crash. - So I've learned a lot about the Romulans here ;-)
Adam from Germany
2024-05-09 19:27:35 +0000 UTCYou rightly pointed out the "cold war feeling" of this episode. The great irony here is that it originally aired only 3 days (!) before the fall of the Berlin wall on November 9th 1989.
Sam Langanke
2024-05-09 19:18:51 +0000 UTCAlso true to his feelings about Romulans killing his father
Eric Singer
2024-05-09 18:40:10 +0000 UTCGood point
Eric Singer
2024-05-09 18:38:21 +0000 UTCDoctor Crusher is, after all, the second-highest ranking person on the Starfleet flagship.
Adam from Germany
2024-05-09 18:37:48 +0000 UTCOne of the great examples of the rareness of a show from those days (and any time since) that takes risks with expectations
Eric Singer
2024-05-09 18:33:24 +0000 UTCAbsolutely
Collin Freeman
2024-05-09 18:07:51 +0000 UTCI'm sure we all get a kick out of you "predicting" future events without realizing it.
KatWithAttitude
2024-05-09 18:03:25 +0000 UTCFor Picard not ordering Worf to donate his ribosomes to the Romulan, I liked it. Picard respected his crewman's decision and would not force him to go against his personal morals/ethics. Clearly, though, Picard was conflicted (which I loved about Patrick Stewart's performance).
Collin Freeman
2024-05-09 17:56:07 +0000 UTCi think this episode really did a great job of humanizing the romulans, from being more then just the enemy, also this marks the first appearance of Commander Tomalak, played by the legendary Andreas Katsulas, best know for role on Babylon 5
Dark Kronis
2024-05-09 17:49:39 +0000 UTCTo the point of racism and bigotry, I have known people in my lifetime who would not buy or have anything to do with anyone or anything from Japan, all because of Pearl Harbor and World War II. Hate and grudges can run deep.
Collin Freeman
2024-05-09 17:48:39 +0000 UTCYou DEFINITELY were not the only people who loved and missed Dr. Crusher but, to phrase this differently than I did in another thread - TV shows back then seemed to be embarrassed by their cast changes. I don't know if it was because they didn't want people to know there had been BTS drama or what, but they glossed over them intentionally. It would have been weird at the time to advertise something like that. Also why Pulaski is barely mentioned since disappearing. It wasn't a case of "don't spoil it," it was a case of "don't make a big deal out of it and hope it gets by the casuals."
Steve Boshear
2024-05-09 17:33:55 +0000 UTCForgot by the end of the episode that Riker had previously mentioned the probability for another Romulan to be on the planet. It was easier for Picard to make the leap that Geordi was with a Romulan. Great job by the writers not going for a more predictable decision by Worf not to donate his cells and humanizing him. He stayed true to being a Klingon.
Stephen Wright
2024-05-09 17:28:50 +0000 UTCSo glad you immediately brought up Enemy Mine. What a great movie and one that I always thought felt like it was an episode of this show. Similar designs, similar look, identical philosophies, and storywise very similar to this episode.
Steve Boshear
2024-05-09 17:26:39 +0000 UTCCan't actually say anything signicant about this episode, because I'd have to put it in a wider TNG context to do so. Literally can't even really comment on what LeVar Burton brings to the role of Geordi for the same reason. I'll have to have my team of high-paid lawyers look into the small print of the guidelines about spoilers.
Numinous2019
2024-05-09 17:11:20 +0000 UTC
