POD 78: Psychedelic legal priorities with lawyer Matt Zorn
Added 2023-06-19 06:43:14 +0000 UTCIn this podcast I talk with lawyer Matt Zorn about legal priorities within the psychedelic space, deregulation, patents, prohibition, and peyote.
Wonderland talk coming soon...
Comments
I struggle to understand how you can take a stance against prohibition as a method which not only doesn't work but is inherently in opposition to freedom, and not acknowledge how patents, which intrinsically operate through the restriction of others' freedom, only have "benefits" within the specific capitalist context we are temporarily in. At their core is still a restrictive framework. Whether you think that restriction will or won't be applied in certain ways is a separate argument. You can't truly know whether or how a law will be enforced, you only know that the potential for it being enforced is there when the legal system legitimizes a claim to ownership. I agree that anti-capitalist organizing has better routes than to go after small psychedelic companies, but I think it's silly to praise the contextual and conditional benefits of patents while neglecting to talk about how it's ultimately a system reliant on restriction. Some of the arguments you make about the unexpected benefits of patents can be paralleled to the unexpected benefits of drug prohibition -- THC prohibition being largely responsible for the development of synthetic cannabinoids. Without prohibition there would have been less motivation to develop synthetic cannabinoids. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened eventually if people have the time and freedom to experiment.
charlito
2024-05-10 18:00:51 +0000 UTCIt may sound crazy to tell the FDA and people that it shouldn't be regulated what is efficacious. But we already don't do that. Doctors prescribe stuff off label all the time, that's a doctor prescribing something for an indication it was never tested for. But it has been shown to be useful in their experience or in the literature in small scale trials or in the general public's experience. That's the same way that we regulate supplements except we don't even test those for safety or purity and especially not efficacy. And that's pretty much fine aside from some issues where something has been a little bit toxic, or the company lied and didn't put what they said they put in the supplement.
Alistair The Alvarian
2024-01-18 01:30:37 +0000 UTCYes, but as a Texan, I can say the state’s average Christian interloper is QUITE different.
Walker Goff
2023-12-06 04:42:28 +0000 UTCI live in Missouri. 75% of the population are Christians. Quite a few of them must have voted to legalize cannabis, or it would still be illegal. I don't think drug reform, or any other issue benefits from being bundled into party lines.
Nathan Hall
2023-07-27 18:05:54 +0000 UTCI think he had some decent points specifically relating to his specialty (like in patent law) but his whole thing about “religious freedom” and courting the religious right was hard to sit through. Christians have so much religious freedom in this country, in fact they by far have the most rights and preferential treatment out of any religion in America. Sorry but what freedom are the Christian right fighting for, huh? The right to force your views on others in schools, to miseducate your kids to not believe in evolution or even tell them that they can be good Christians without rejecting obvious science, or is it the right to force women to not get abortions under few if any circumstances, or maybe it’s the right to abuse kids until they are fully subservient to anyone in authority, or maybe it’s marrying children to adult men, or what about medically neglecting children so they die from treatable medical conditions. We are constitutionally secular as a country, this stuff is not freedom, it’s restrictions imposed on others and when the state says, no, that is a violation of human rights, public health, and harms the wellbeing of your and others children, the religious rights throws a fucking fit. The stuff they’re fighting for is the equivalent of a previously secular muslim country forcing young girls to wear burkas in school or have a Quran study mandatory for all public school students. I don’t see any one of the religious “freedom” fighters fighting for any better protections of muslim religious “freedom” though. Besides, the religious right are the most vitriolic and pigheaded supporters of drug criminalization anyways. Why waste the effort trying to convince the ones who have already planted themselves on the opposite side of you.
Addicted to Chloroform
2023-07-21 03:39:08 +0000 UTCZorn's recommendation of involving the Christian lobby in psychedelic legalization is a brilliant reminder of the many ways in which humans can bridge the chasm of divisiveness on both sides of an issue through a common cause. Amazing content as usual!
Lucas Spaeder
2023-07-14 15:20:35 +0000 UTCMatt values values
gossamer
2023-07-09 01:48:25 +0000 UTCNot so much a "low blow" as a "demonstrable lie"
Hamilton Morris
2023-06-30 06:35:56 +0000 UTCThis one of my favs
Arthur Tinel
2023-06-27 01:37:35 +0000 UTCCorrect
Hamilton Morris
2023-06-26 19:12:23 +0000 UTCI think he missed the clarification that YOU don't even have a Schedule I license, correct? I believe you've worked on novel/unscheduled tryptamines because you and your employer don't want to deal with the oppressive requirements for handling/making schedule I substances.
CSN
2023-06-25 23:47:37 +0000 UTCI like being your patron because all of the content is so interesting, thank you.
giticzb
2023-06-24 08:45:37 +0000 UTCBeing accused of being a non-chemist is such a low blow … what happened to gentlemen’s disagreements?
giticzb
2023-06-24 08:41:33 +0000 UTCNice and pretty balanced discussion, enjoyed his slightly different position. would be very interesting to hear an interview with someone who is very opposed to you (but keen to have an actual debate rather than stick in the mud type).
Meek
2023-06-22 21:24:36 +0000 UTCLoved this episode and super into the drug law content atm. Would be more than glad to see more
Arthur Tinel
2023-06-22 17:19:59 +0000 UTCLol, I know many do.. especially those who were raped and caused the pregnancy...
Mitchell
2023-06-21 22:19:37 +0000 UTCWhere can we find this patent with Jason Wallach that was mentioned at the end of this episode?
Carter
2023-06-21 21:54:02 +0000 UTCOMG he's a free and open source software advocate too?! He said the Linux word!
Juniper
2023-06-21 19:52:27 +0000 UTCReally interesting but frustrating convo for sure. I was kind of taken aback by the federalist attitude about drug policy i.e. "if a state wants to ban a drug that's fine, I just won't live there" - I disagree that that's fine and it strikes me as being contrary to the 'values' that Zorn is consistently referencing about civil liberties with regard to substance use. The grand majority of people who use drugs don't have the luxury to move around the country to avoid draconian drug policies.
Ethan Campbell
2023-06-21 17:01:24 +0000 UTCThis also jumped out at me as being a pretty weak argument. It's true that there are some people who lean conservative on certain issues, such as property rights, who are potential allies on ending prohibition (they are much more likely to call themselves "libertarian" than "conservative.") But guns and abortion are very different kinds of issues - guns have an inherent risk to others, and society at large, that most drug use simply does not. Abortion, similarly, is entirely about policing what *other people* are doing with their bodies, not personal behavior.
Zach
2023-06-20 19:50:27 +0000 UTCThis episode: 😴😴
Conifer
2023-06-20 16:51:40 +0000 UTCI would like to, it’s a great interview, he has still not given me permission. I will release as soon as he does, I hope soon
Hamilton Morris
2023-06-20 16:17:05 +0000 UTCAny chance of you being able to post the Lizard Labs interview soon? (Owner’s name escapes me)
Andy
2023-06-20 14:45:06 +0000 UTCThe only person on the Supreme Court who might be a wild card right now is Gorsuch only because he is inexplicably pretty good on tribal rights.
Owen Webster
2023-06-20 14:15:50 +0000 UTCYes. Abortion is the most glaring contradiction to all his arguments yet he uses it to say the opposite somehow!
Owen Webster
2023-06-20 14:15:06 +0000 UTCHi Hamilton just wanted to thank you again for putting out your podcast. It really means a lot to me and I'd assume plenty of others. Life can be very busy, monotonous, and distracting, but this podcast always pulls me in and reminds me of the things I care about. It motivates me to be better. Hope you are doing well!
Benjamin
2023-06-20 12:09:56 +0000 UTCU want a story about childbirth let's have one bc I have one. And that's a whole other topic.
Kristall
2023-06-20 10:02:41 +0000 UTCWhy ppl.r speaking about it in relation to psychedelics seems odd. It has nothing to do with it.
Kristall
2023-06-20 10:01:52 +0000 UTCChildbirth should now ever even be political. No woman ever regrets having their baby...... If given the opportunity...
Kristall
2023-06-20 10:00:21 +0000 UTCEnlightening experience they can have
Kristall
2023-06-20 09:58:47 +0000 UTCAlways find it odd how any man can have an opinion about birth lol.... If women were able to see they are being used for their "idea" it's their "choice" and ever have a natural birth they would probably see they have been duped and know they are being robbed of the most spiritually
Kristall
2023-06-20 09:55:08 +0000 UTCI dont think religious pro gun right wing voters are effective here. The fact they want to criminalize abortion and drag culture shows in itself they dont always care about personal freedoms and assuming that same crowd will support drug legalization - a very traditionally left leaning policy - is simply false. There are useful idiots all across the political spectrum who automatically dislike any policy their opponent supports and i dont think right wing pundits will support something their oponents also supports. Common middle ground is bad for business in terms of outrage and populism.
Helmer
2023-06-20 06:48:10 +0000 UTCCongrats on the patent! 🎉
mia
2023-06-20 02:56:46 +0000 UTCHe brings up a good point of needing lobbying power, but I agree. Views are emotionally driven, not ideologically driven. Gun rights arguments are actually great abortion right arguments, but the second it's about a uterus, immediately the cognitive dissonance comes out. I don't see how it could work.
mia
2023-06-20 02:22:56 +0000 UTCI loved your Wonderland speech and find it absurd that anyone would take real offense at it. I found Matt’s objections to it confusing and contradictory. I’m surprised that someone who did such impressive work taking on the federal bureaucracy is so inarticulate.
Andy Braham
2023-06-20 00:56:28 +0000 UTCThe religious right being allies to decriminalization requires them to not have their brains steeped in reefer madness and also to have internally consistent ideological logic. Seems like a pretty big obstacle to me.
Owen Webster
2023-06-19 21:57:57 +0000 UTCI won't lie Matt is a little frustrating to listen to. I enjoyed the talk though. I really really wanna hear the wonderland talk.
Leila Taylor
2023-06-19 09:48:19 +0000 UTCPerfect start to my morning at work, cheers Hamilton!
Pontus L
2023-06-19 07:13:25 +0000 UTCDamn you, posting a new podcast at midnight! Kidding, I'm looking forward to it. Can't wait for the material that comes out of the MAPS conference too.
Brian
2023-06-19 06:54:30 +0000 UTC
