PODCAST 26: An interview with Vyvanse inventor Dr. Robert Oberlender

Note to self: buy erphones; it will be worth it. Washing up and listening on my speaker no funciona...

Luke Sonnenburg

Hamilton, do you know what the outcome was on the work pairing oxycodone with amino acids? It seems no extended/controlled-release opioids using this formulation were released. I'm wondering if this was because the chemistry didn't work or.. something else? Perhaps public inclination towards any novel opioid formulations (including mitragynine) are now chronically low? My understanding is that controlled-release opioids are generally not continually released at a constant, low rate. They are actually released in distinct stages; there is an initial, a middle, and final release, each separated by about 3-3.5 hours. I can't find any corroborating information online, but I've certainly felt this. On "Dopesick" this is presented as a shocking revelation further explaining how OxyContin actually could be addictive (surprise!) and therefore PF's nefarious character. The hypocritical thing is that you wouldn't want an opiate to be released at a constant slow trickle (the way people have generally assumed what "Controlled Release" means) because a low dose only partially binds receptors. This not only provides inadequate analgesia, but also interferes with further binding of a supplementary "rescue" dose. I would love to hear more from Dr. Juurlink. A couple of other doctors active in the Canadian media are Dr. Hakique Virani, and Dr. Christy Sutherland.

Peter Thomas

You're not alone in your reaction to Vyvanse. I started it about 6 mo. ago and have noticed I have become "emotional" at times. This was particularly noticeable in the first week of taking it, but also on occasion since then, typically in the first 1-2 hours of onset. Sometimes it's memories that come up, but more often a response to music, especially feeling a deeper connection to lyrics. It shows that drugs we tend to think of as having an emotional toughening or numbing effect aren't necessarily felt that way by all. It really bugs me when people describe opioids as "numbing" which to me is such a facile, superficial way of describing the experience.

Peter Thomas

I abused meth for years (14 thru mid 20s) and I tolerated it very well, no psychotic breaks or issues because I’m adhd diagnosed at age 12 and confirmed again in my 30s. For some reason a super low dose of this drug made me manic and psychotic- it scared me WAY more than seemingly more intense drugs (5-Meo, pcp, fentanyl etc). It puzzles me. I have done stronger stimulant amphetamines since and tolerated them well. This vyvanse was prescribed and I called my doctor in tears, i took it one week, never again. I’ve tried everything , irresponsibly, and I’ve found my mind to be resilient … it FASCINATES me that this amphetamine that is forced to be absorbed less quickly literally broke me. Massive pcp dose, ounces of ketamine in a short time, insane amounts of lsd or Dmt, grams of meth in a sitting - tolerable. The lowest dose the doctor could prescribe of vyvanse broke me, and I’ve done stronger stimulants since and tolerated them. So crazy Literally the only drug that has scared me beyond understanding , there’s something about this amphetamine that differs and I don’t get it. Never again

Efault

Fascinating interview. I almost overlooked it because I'm not particularly interested in stimulants. One question though: at about 51 minutes into this interview you say "as far as I'm aware, he didn't do any research on the lysergamides." Were you referring to Shulgin? I'm not sure if he published research on them in any journals, but he lists a few in TiHKAL (1, 12, 26, 51). I wonder if these were synthesized from the same batch of lysergic acid that Shulgin sent to Dr. Oberlander. In your podcast with Dr. Nichols (I can't remember which), he mentions that he transferred some lysergic acid to a colleague at a different research institute when he retired. I wonder if this same batch just made the rounds to all the labs doing psychedelic research!

Brian

Amazing