The Fashion Alchemist

I love the blue dress but I think the boots are too grown-up. I think the classic Mary Jane shoes or short simple Victorian boots would fit better.

Guilt definitely doesn't seem like something that should be empowering. It's an emotion that degrades ambition, health, self-worth, etc.. However, with the idea that there could be other shadow-Alices that represent the negative forces of her struggle that she'll need to control or overcome, (fear/panic/hysteria and bitterness/passion/rage) there could be obstacles in the game, symbolizing guilt, that Alice may or may not be able to deal with alone and could enlist their help to overcome. Unfortunately, this isn't a healthy way to deal with these things so Hysteria and Rage Liddell will get stronger as a result and be a more difficult force to deal with when the time comes. I'm liking the design so far of young Alice, even though she essentially just looks a bit smaller than A:MR and AMA. However, I'm not crazy about the boots. They look too much like modern runway-goth trend wear as opposed to a historically accurate design. In my opinion, Alice should look very much of her time with elements of child-like fancy and cynical realism since this is how she sees herself in her own imaginative mind. I don't think she should look like she just got back from a Hot Topic sale, ready to go to an EDM party. The boots in the first two games were great. The heel was there, but fairly practical in height. Boots aside, I think it might be pretty appropriate and interesting to give Alice a similar treatment as the cat. Since this is closer to the time in her life of the fire, Alice's new dress could start off with some burn marks on the ends of the apron and the ribbons in the back. Maybe some dark smudges instead of blood stains. Later on, when she's progressed through more of the journey, some of the burn marks could disappear as signs that she's begun her healing in earnest. That's all I got! Thanks for working so hard on this, guys, you're the best! I can't wait to see more and I wish I could offer more support.

Jay Olsen

Very true. It was more in the case to kind of reflect the outide mourning inside Wonderland. So I fully agree with you on many of the dress points. It was more to add a understanding of the mourning aspect in her clothing, but keeping it within the Wonderland-esque aesthetics :) And shorter hair would look amazing on her! Can totally see it as being a more youthful look to her and really making it look like she is, as you say "clinging on to her childhood" :D And in terms of the heels of her boots. I agree! Imagine having to run around, jump and do puzzles in heels. not only are foes trying to kill her, but her own feet too! So yes, shorter heels would be a better fit I think :)

Guilt is not a feeling that gives energy. It's also not something that makes sense when you're almost dying while fighting a teapot or something. Why not chaos dress? Or torment dress, the torment is related to suffering as well as guilt, but it seems to be something more energetic than guilt.

Gah, I also don't like 'guilt' as the name for the dress. Just doesn't fit for me. Then I'd rather prefer something like 'Madness' or 'Pain' or 'chaos' etc... But except for that I love the design. I'm so curious how it will look like in the end. :D And my patches just arrived some days ago. They are awesome. Thank you so much!

Have you seen <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/MadeYewLook" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/user/MadeYewLook</a> ? She does great body art and recently has done a bunch from the Alice games!

Drucilla Shultz

One day I’ll get some time to be in a stream. Lol

I know guilt isn't popular but, guilt can be tied to many emotions with it. Guilt can make you feel sad, make you in pain, make you angry, make you obsessive. I think it has multi-facets and could be used TIED with other emotions making them different for this game. I kind of like the guilt aspect. I think it's the correct response since this is taking place after the fire/in the asylum. Also, like I was saying about guild being tied with other emotions, Alice suffers from PTSD, which could help facilitate these different emotions tied to guilt. PTSD makes people irrational and have emotions that come out from various places of the mind.

Just caught up with the recent live stream, and there are so many comments, forgive me if i repeat something someone has said: Could a power up for Guilt be defensive in nature? Metaphorically she could be withdrawing into a shell. Her own personal (s)hell. Possibly this could manifest as a literal shell that protects her from damage. Going with the fire theme, maybe she protects herself with a dome of flame that "burns" (thus reducing) incoming damage, and can inflict some damage on enemies. But while active she can act a bit distant and distracted during battles, muttering to herself and saying things like "No, no, no. This is all my fault." etc. and throwing her arms up defensively when attacked, resulting in the fire shield reacting to incoming damage, as if the guilt/fire itself is protecting her while she is withdrawing inwards. Just a thought!

FifthDream

Paragraphs are your friends ppl... lets express them on 2 or less.

I feel the same way about "Guilt" as nearly everyone here. Not my favorite - much too self destructive. I don't know if I love the heeled boots. I think something with a shorter heel may be more appropriate. I adore the dress. A little more.......... I'm not sure of the word I'm looking for here... Innocent, perhaps. I like the idea someone mentioned earlier about keeping the stripes on the tights. perhaps in a lighter color - like grey and white. Maybe they get the darker coloring from smoke/fire? The floating necklace is really great!

I would like to chime in with my two cents. Overall, I love her younger design. One thing I was worried about was that the design of younger Alice would pretty much just end up looking like older Alice, just shorter. I think her face could be rounded a bit more to make her look younger, instead of just a short adult, but that really depends. There will be a fear of losing the essence of Alice if her looks are altered too much. Being a historian, I can chime in with some things that were normal for Victorian children :) Normally a child/young girl would wear her hair down, and often long since it was a sign of their femininity and a glory for most women, especially in the upper classes. Hairs symbolism had a unique meaning and power in the Victorian era (Gitter, Elisabeth. E., "The Power of Women's Hair in the Victorian Imagination", PMLA, Vol. 99, No. 5 (Oct., 1984), pp. 936-954) In terms of Alice's clothing, it was said that the length of a girl’s dresses varied depending on her age, but normally, the older she got the longer her dress became. Innocence in the short skirt was replaced by the modesty and reserved appearance of the long skirt. (<a href="https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/266767977903998011/)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/266767977903998011/)</a> But there seemed to have been certain rules regarding what to wear when mourning and for how long a period of mourning should last. According to Florence Hartley, a contemporary of the time it depends on what kind of mourning the person is in, and she writes thusly: “MOURNING—There is such a variety of opinion upon the subject of mourning, that it is extremely difficult to lay down any general rules upon the subject. Some wear very close black for a long period, for a distant relative; whilst others will wear dressy mourning for a short time in a case of death in the immediate family. There is no rule either for the depth of mourning, or the time when it may be laid aside, and I must confine my remarks to the different degrees of mourning. For deep mourning, the dress should be of bombazine, Parramatta cloth, delaine, barege, or merino, made up over black lining. The only appropriate trimming is a deep fold, either of the same material or of crape. The shawl or cloak must be of plain black, without border or trimming, unless a fold of crape be put on the cloak; the bonnet should be of crape, made perfectly plain, with crape facings, unless the widow's cap be worn, and a deep crape veil should be thrown over both face and bonnet. Black crape collar and sleeves, and black boots and gloves. The next degree is to wear white collar and sleeves, a bow of crape upon the bonnet, and plain white lace facings, leaving off the crape veil, and substituting one of plain black net. A little later, black silk without any gloss, trimmed with crape, may be worn, and delaine or bombazine, with a trimming of broad, plain ribbon, or a bias fold of silk. The next stage admits a silk bonnet trimmed with crape, and lead color, dark purple, or white figures on the dress. From this the mourning passes into second mourning. Here a straw bonnet, trimmed with black ribbon or crape flowers, or a silk bonnet with black flowers on the outside, and white ones in the face, a black silk dress, and gray shawl or cloak, may be worn. Lead color, purple, lavender, and white, are all admissible in second mourning, and the dress may be lightened gradually, a white bonnet, shawl, and light purple or lavender dress, being the dress usually worn last, before the mourning is thrown aside entirely, and colors resumed. It is especially to be recommended to buy always the best materials when making up mourning. Crape and woolen goods of the finest quality are very expensive, but a cheaper article will wear miserably; there is no greater error in economy than purchasing cheap mourning, for no goods are so inferior, or wear out and grow rusty so soon.” ( “The Ladies’ Book of Etiquette and Manual of Politeness by Florence Hartley, 1872) In terms of Alice’s boots, which I know have been a thing you have talked about a lot, there can always be the opportunity to give her a kitten heel. It still adds a bit of heel to the boot, like many girls wore back then, without sexualizing her in any way. There wore a slight heel to a girl’s boot back then, and it would make sense making it lower when she is younger, and as she grows older a couple of inches are added to them. I apologize for the lack of sources. Turned out to be harder than expected.

Melancholy is when you realise that what you lost was never yours in the first place: It's the loss of a loss. Alice can never go this low because she lost an important part her. That's why melancholic people look so dumb: Their grieving is pointless.

Make Nine Inch Nails great again

I’m not super crazy about the guilt idea either. I mean, it does make since with what she’s going through, but I can’t really compare it to equals with how Hysteria and Rage played out in the games. I can’t really imagine Alice using guilt as a power. I relate guilt with the verge of giving up or feeling hopeless/lost. I can definitely be wrong about this, it just doesn’t fit the personality of the Alice we know. I think Alice would punish herself over guilt so I’m not seeing it as a strength to be used like rage or hysteria. Since the theme is seemingly going to follow stages of grief I think it could work to use panic/fear as the equivalent to hysteria/rage. Panic is an emotion that someone going through grief would experience. Though I know it is intended that Omri’s art piece was inspired with what he seen as guilt, I saw panic instead. Panic can drive people to do some crazy and impulsive things. It could play out as Alice is between her realities she has episodes of panics and thus it could build up. Eventually leading up to one big power up, (similar to that of Hysteria/Rage). How the power up could work is still of question depending on other elements of the game. Nonetheless, I personally think that panic would be a bit more fitting than guilt. I also think it would mesh well with what we know of Alice and her personality. Anyways, I’m reminded of why I fell in love with Alice and series as a whole. You give such a unique story to a classic tale. The little details such as the symbols on her dress is one of those factors that makes it so good. It’s one more thing that add to the story and what we can learn about it and the characters involved. I’m not personally knowledgeable with symbols and what would be fitting to Alice. It would be a neat little thing if the symbols on her dress somehow told us bits about her as she is in the game and that part of her life as she works through everything.

Tori

Since this is taking place after the fire, before the first game, what about Pain? Or maybe since it the asylum, her power up is something she injects? I’m trying hard to think of ideas 😭

What if the guilt was one of those power ups/abilities that comes with a massive cost if used? Because it seems like the game is dealing a lot with denial, and using grief means she's coming to terms with it.

A symbol I might suggest is that of Aqua Regia, an alchemical compond known for being able to dissolve many substances, including gold (the result of which is known as "dragon's blood"). Perhaps it could represent destruction, specifically the destruction of good things, like the fire's destruction of Alice's life.

INeedANameForThisHuh

[Press L3 + R3 to activate Guilt Mode] Yeah, doesn't sound quite right to me. The game revolves around her guilt yes, but as for the "Hysteria" mode type, some other word would be better. I still like calling it "Chaos Mode" instead. Crying and screaming in emotional pain, destroy everything in your path, lighting every enemy ablaze and creating chaos in a frenzy of guilt. (Probably activated through losing a deathly amount of your health makes the most sense to me.)

As a few people have already said, Guilt as a "driving force" isn't the same as Rage or Hysteria, but it IS something self-destructive - and considering Wonderland is, in a way, Alice herself, it could theoretically make sense for it to be a somewhat viable power up? Perhaps it could result in damage to Alice after use? Or the dress itself could even just be called "Self Destruction" (if not just "Destruction")?

INeedANameForThisHuh

Welp, good luck. I love the classic dress, clean, pure, untainted. Design-wise it's logical and beautiful. The black one from Facebook would be better if the back was covered. Mainly that's an immersion decision.

Saleh Abu-Rashid

I have mixed feelings about the Guilt thing. With narrative it makes, and guilt is at the very least a self destructive thing. It could make sense for Alice to burning by guilt and that hurting enemies around her, but I do see what you mean with it not being a driving force. But maybe at this point, Alice isn't very confident in her powers and so when she's feeling guilt and set ablaze, she just sort of.. sits there, paralyzed, scared and in pain.

New Blue Dress concept is great. I like all the small but significant changes Omri did to Alice's appearance. Now she definitely looks like a teenager. I find Guilt more productive than Rage or Hysteria (great, now I sound like Dr. Bumby) They are impossible to control. It is like jumping into waterfall. You are not able to get back with the flow. Guilt on the contrary, makes you feel numb forcing to rethink traumatizing experience all over again many times. It dips you into bitterness of inability to change anything and regret of what you've done or neglected to do. At the same time Guilt motivates to protect what is left. To keep it safe no matter how. In my opinion, Alice tries her best to protect the Wonderland and its habitants, because she feels responsible and guilty for all the damage done.

Looking forward to the stream as usual, good to hear that there has been movement on things in the background. Always happy to see new development in the clothing department.

I absolutely love this idea of this from visual perspective (as the aggressive, brutal nature of hysteria in Madness Returns made for some impressive, memorable aesthetics), just not sure how well would bullet time work in an Alice game as a mechanic. It feels to me like the whole combat system would have to be built around it, to justify player’s ability to slow down time and actually put it to some advantageous use. Let alone far too many third person shooters have been implementing it lately for it to feel all that original. Still, the dress is so spectacular it literally begs for a spectacular associated power-up. And I agree something grief-related sounds like a better way to go about it than guilt.

Good thinkings

Sarah Heist

-Putting the belt higher makes her lose body. She becomes a bust over a parachute. I rather it not look like a Korean traditional dress. -Longer hair: yes, i like it. Unless the jumping physics make it look too weird. -Won't she look weird running in high-heel boots? -Not a fan of the spade skull. Why would she be wearing a sigil of her enemy the Red Queen? It might be fun to have the usual skull, only half of its face is scorched. Have a splash of grey/black soot. Like it's been in the fire. It's as if the skull, being behind her back where she can't see it, is a subconscious thing. Her grim scorched and ash-dirtied subconscious.

Wonderful to see new Alice content. Thanks for that everyone. As to the dress situation; Melancholy, not Guilt, is my two cents. It is close to sorrow, but I could see a younger being, more likely to suffer from melancholy/depression. Something to do with the comedy/tragedy masks, maybe as adornments on the dress, or a form of powerup (comedy side does one thing, tragedy side does something else). EDIT: I have been thinking that the blue dress fits well into the depressive motif of melancholy too. Melancholy as a mental state of being and not the physical illness melancholia by the way.

For the symbols on the pockets may I suggest the alchemy symbols of rot and pulverise maybe?

Juliette Bourcier

I do have to agree that I'm not a huge fan of "guilt" as a driving force. Seems to me like more of a crippling force.

Youtube really likes to do funky things... I think that the skirt of the dress should be more "bell shaped" than triangle. Round shapes in her clothes would make Alice look younger. I"m not sure about removing the black and white striped stockings as it's a signature look for her. Or maybe the texture on them can be stripes? like white and light grey stripes?

Chaussette

Maybe Sorrow instead of Guilt??? Or Misery??

Maybe just have the guilt dress which will inhibit the player in some way (heal slower, move slower etc.) That would make more of a challenge for those who enjoy the challenge 😉 I asked this question on the previous post; Will there be different dresses for the separate levels? If so, do you guys have ideas on what they’ll be?

ya it would be cool to see her hair getting a bit burned on the tips from the fire. I really would love to see the younger Alice with shorter hair (would be more realistic but not our choice we just can hope for it ^_^ )

Jessi St.

To me, Guilt sounds like a handicap for a harder version of the game. It weakens her attacks or slows her movement, or something.

Rob Burch

Hmm I agree, "guilt" isn't really a emotion the invokes physical activity. The design looks great through so it would be a shame to waste it. Maybe the tiny house reminds her of her family and it gives her the strength to go on (increasing her attack power).

I'm torn on that dress being the "guilt" dress given how self-destructive guilt can be...unless perhaps that's a mechanic? Activating the dress gives Alice a massive and temporary boost in attacking power, but the flames start eating away at her health and if she doesn't shut it off in time, the dress burns her into ash?

Okay so I'm not a big make up girl (I know the basics but don't expect anything fancy) but I've noticed that in the game Alice's eye make up is rather dark making her look rather tired, maybe for her being younger a slightly lighter look might help, the years of treatments are still to come so she wouldn't look as weathered, maybe her face slightly red (people's faces tend to become pink or red when they are crying or suppressing tears) but honestly keep her face natural and somewhat innocent, the horrors are only just beginning for her so she wouldn't be as worn as the older Alice... Also with the dress depending on her age it may not have a corset (in the Victorian era a girl doesn't start wearing a corset until after the onset of puberty) which would make it slightly more free flowing but the apron around her waste would still act as a kind of belt, her figure would be slightly less feminine, her waste slightly wider without the corset pulling it in and of course her chest would be relatively flat

Evibbles

Would be a shame not to work in that crazy glowing Alice and a black dress someplace, she just looks so cool. Maybe apply it some place else.

Perhaps rather than guilt power up, it could be a "grief" powerup. I'm imagining something along the lines of a stylized "max payne" bullet time mode, where everything including the player goes in to slower motion, a shader effect darkens everything, perhaps a flame outline effect for characters and certain parts of the environment, and some very overwrought sounds of crying/wailing in the background. Just my thoughts.

truth_decay

I agree with the other the guilt power up does not work for me... maybe guilt could be seen as something that hinders you like in Fahrenheit Indigo prophecy where bad interactions slowly drive your character to depression. The dress looks great and the changes really give us the sense that she is younger... maybe we could go for less aggressive shoes? Those still look a bit mature... maybe some of those traditional english black buckle shoes?

Lionor_

I also think that guilt would be something that weakens Alice or takes her will to fight, not a power-up. I like the dress, the higher belt is nice idea. Same goes for the longer hair.

Very creative! I definitely agree with your idea about flame ornaments being simpler and more childlike, it would definitely help set the tone for this brand new, more unstable child version of Alice. Her depression and self- loathing should definitely be a main theme that manifests itself in the gameplay as well. Maybe her default stance could have a more arched back and sudden, frantic movements and twitching that hint at her unpredictable bouts of rage and sadness... All in all I definitely agree that we need to see a less composed and more dangerous version of the protagonist. Awesome ideas!

Guilt as a power-up emotion doesn't fit in my opinion, rather more like an emotion which weakens and leads to self-destruction (not to destruct an enemy). Blue dress is cool! Longer hairs too!

I definitely agree on guilt*s possibilities of being in the way. But it can motivate too with the right push of buttons. Though there should be a cost of dexterity or motor/cognitive function

Sarah Heist

Oh boy this is my favorite post yet. Hi. I'm a costumer/seamstress/special fx makeup artist that works at a haunted house. My Instagram is @closer_to_dandy. I liked the idea had earlier of the fire/ash themed dress/boots and the flame and ash symbols. Perhaps since she is closer to a child in this game, the symbols could be simpler: eg the elemental symbol for fire and the general mathematical symbol of change (equilateral triangle) I like the longer hair, shows more innocence. Especially with a reveal of the length after being bound up tight and then loosen from some sort of fight or transformation Guilt can be a motivator. The actions wouldn't be as crisp or clean as would with rage or hysteria, they would be sadder, slower. Almost as though she feels she doesn't deserve to win the battle/live, but she has no perceivable choice. She doesn't want to live, but she has to atone for sins she's assigning to herself. Makeup/face: tired. Isn't eating, barely sleeping, fighting fatigue both mental and physical. Hope the entirety of what I wrote is understood. I'm real jazzed about this one. Blessed be.

Sarah Heist

About the Symbol, i would give her a Astraea symbol (Greek goddess of innocence and purity(associated with justice)+ maybe Hypnos (Greek again, god of sleep + illusions). I really like the dress and the more "pure" way but (just my taste) i would prefer shorter hair (i just think about the time she was born,her parents would cut her hair because of all the dirt and stuff \or maybe a pigtail but most likely shorter hair). Plus i would take her necklace off (gimmick: she would GET the necklace at the end of the new game after ALL what happened to her...but again, that's just what I think would be nice ^_^ ) About the "guilt" dress: I think a lot of people like the name because it is something else (we already had Hysteria but to be Hysteric you have to hate a lot and find the strength to release everything, Rage ...i don't really like rage because a little child can rage just because of nonsense...XD Guilt = fear, hate, rage, love everything in one...i think that's why people like it. Have a great day @ all

Jessi St.

I really do love this concept of a younger Alice dress 💗the same style will be reflected in the other dresses I would imagine. So maybe all of the flames on Alice flow in reverse like maybe she pulls in flames near her and uses them as her weapon instead creating the flames herself? What if no symbols on her apron until after the fire like they are burned on to the dress.

I’m not a fan of the guilt “power-up” emotion concept either. If anything I would suggest incorporating it as an element that hinders Alice’s progress (if Alice’s self loathing is a critical concept that has to make its mark in the final product). Regarding the dress symbols I really appreciate the amount of thought you put into it American - Especially in stories as deep as this one I deeply value the usage of visual symbolism, especially for character design. So far I’m really enthusiastic about this project. Keep up the good work!