Dating Ourselves

It's a great thing have the correct timeline, great work!

This is horribly late, but this is awesome. There has been a definite confusion about dates and ages among fans with what source material we can find out there. Maybe because it’s been out for so long, that’s why it’s been confused? I was thinking the same thing along with nekobash. Apologies to you if this has been a point of frustration with you.

Reality takes the dreams away. They are restored within this dimension.

I was under the impression that the fire would've happened when she was young (between ages 8 and 11). She'd then be in a coma for a year or so. The physical therapy would run into her time at Rutledge, which she'd be in a few years. Then AMA happens at the tail end of her stint in Rutledge (roughly between ages 17 and 19). She'd then get out go to London, have a breakdown a few years later and that's when Madness Returns happens.

nekobash

Lobotomy was developed by the Portuguese Antonio Egas Moniz in 1935. The first operation was carried out in 1936.

This really puts things into perspective.❤

Is her creeper therapist, Bumby, going to make an appearance in this game? Given what we learn about the fire in Madness Returns, wouldn't it make sense for him to at least make a cameo? I loved his character and would like to see more of his early involvement. Additionally, in this game her time in wonderland is a Coma, in Madness Returns it ends with her in an weird reality/wonderland combo, is she just full blow crazy at that point or? I think I need that more thoroughly explained. Also, was she ever lobotomized? I feel like their has been imagery that suggests that but I don't know if I've ever seen something that confirms it for sure.

I think 13 is an good age for her to get into the Asylum...She was young but back in this time 13 wasn't an age you could call her too young or something...I think people want her to be 18+ just because nowadays it would make more sense or something but in the 19th century she would consider old enough (with 18) to stay on her own feet (or she would be locked up forever with this age) so it wouldn't make a lot of sense ...to me at least

Jessi St.

you just can't compare nowadays with back then...in this time everything was different(like for real..), so i don't think 13 is too "early" at all XD.

Jessi St.

I always thought Alice was in a very young age at AMA like 18 or 19. I don't think the age of 13 is the best date though...Although working with my teacher (a psychiatrist) did say that the time for anyone to recover or start recover is always random and never specified. But isnt 1 year to fight her inner demons a bit too early? If suggest the fire happening way before. The Cheshire cat looks chill.

Saleh Abu-Rashid

hmmm never thought of it as actual employment, just a role she took on because of the other children more like a big sister, than anything else. Interesting ...I will still say the character model looks 18 at best however and even then that feels like a stretch . @Michelle Thanks ^.^

As I recall Alice is, as such, not an orphan who is meant to be adopted but actually works for Bumby as a sort of maid :)

My one random question is If she is 22/23 for Alice Madness returns. Why is she at an Orphanage? wouldn't she have aged out? ***I know the ending of Madness Returns** It just doesn't make sense that she would still be there at that age, crazy or not. ( Also the character Model looks really young for that age)

As for dating yourself, you can dine in front of a mirror. I downloaded a pdf of the pc manual + casebook. But there is no entry between 1 april 1865 and 7 september 1873 :/ Plus, semptember 1873 feels more like it's the beginning of the first game.

Make Nine Inch Nails great again

I have no clue but 13 seems perfectly reasonable and ‘unlucky’. I’ll always be curious how her wonderland looked before trauma though. I mean let’s be real here it’s YOUR story and YOUR world you can make her however old you want. We literally cannot tell the creator of a character if he’s wrong about his character 😂

I love the casebook so much. I wish I had taken better of the pc game box ;3;/ I'm ashamed.

Slightly off topic, I always loved the casebook. It would be great if it could get re-printed (perhaps in a more realistic replica). Or, perhaps with the release of the new game, if we could get an updated realistic one or something of that nature. I always remembered the bit about her attacking an orderly with her spoon and then turning it on herself... Was an interesting peek at what was going on with her behind the scenes.

Codie K Conklin

I think you captured her age very well, I always thought she was like 18 in the first game because of her behaveior and way of thinking, but well you think differently if you're mentally ill you seem older. I think 13 is the perfect age for Asylum :)

I always had Alice down as younger than 18 in AMA. I'm sure her age is never specifically mentioned however. 13 for Asylum seems like the best age for the game.

Your "musings" are the beginning of what sounds like some amazing dialogue and story stuff ! I just eat that stuff up,lol I would love more stuff to read when this game comes out 💘 the timeline seems right to me That's pretty much how I pictured the timeline so it's good in my eyes

Not sure how we should approach this - again, it's been so long since I wrote the original story I don't recall how I derived her age. I might have been going around saying to myself (and the press, RJ, etc) that she was "18" during the first game simply because it was an M-rated game. I don't think we had any concept of putting a girl younger than that in the main role of an Mature game (this was pre-2000, recall). I don't really know if I put much though into dates and ages. Speaking of dates and ages... I'm getting old! :P So... we need a new foundation. Or an old foundation based on actual facts. I don't feel like what's presented here breaks anything... does it? I do like the idea of her being 13 in Asylum as this is generally recognized as the range in childhood development (13-16) where we begin the transition into adulthood - bodies change, hormones change, we begin to question authority, develop a sense of right/wrong, start to form an independent identity, etc. For this reason I don't think we want to go much younger. And going older puts us into strange territory with regards to her situation in the asylum. Is she in a coma or not (the casebook says she is). So...

American McGee

It is and it isn't (incorporating dates from/of the books)... I don't think we really care about the publication date of the books - nor Alice's age when the books were published. That would be like saying characters in movies are dated by the year in which the movie was released. Yeah? I'm looking at the fact that in the books she claims a certain age (7.5 years) and that - at least according to my math - would have the adventures (in the timeline of the books) taking place when Alice was 7.5, which is 1859. How are you arriving at 1858? Is my math for her age, starting a 0 in 1852, arriving at 7 in 1859 somehow wrong?

American McGee

I also notice that this seems to retcon Alice's ages during AMA and AMR (at least, I've heard that Alice was 18 or 19 for the first game, and 19 or 20 for the second - putting her birthday in 1856).

INeedANameForThisHuh

I take it, then, that this timeline isn't incorporating the dates of the two original books? The first book was published in 1865, when real!Alice would have been 13; the second was 1871, when she'd be 19. Though in the second book, Alice says she's 7 1/2 years old, meaning THAT adventure should, if I'm counting correctly, take place November of 1858, not 1859. On top of that, I'm assuming that this means both the Wonderland and Looking-Glass adventures occurred at the same time, if only the Looking-Glass "book adventure" is on the timeline here?

INeedANameForThisHuh

Ah! I didn't think of cloning. Good one :) I suppose dating your twin would count as well? :P

American McGee

K, Can you find a record of the "8 when the fire occurred" idea? I am looking at the casebook now and in an entry dated November, 11 1864 it says, "Her burns have healed remarkably well in the year since the fire..." which would suggest the fire took place in 1863 - as is reflected in the timeline I've presented here. I can find no real reference to Littlemore except for on the Alice Wiki... <a href="http://alice.wikia.com/wiki/Littlemore_Infirmary" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://alice.wikia.com/wiki/Littlemore_Infirmary</a> And even that says she was there for only 1 year before being transferred to Rutledge - which would align with the calendar presented above. Again, can you point to some reference - in-game cut-scene or other material which confirms the ages, dates, and locations? Lastly, where are you getting your info on her age and birthday? I seem to recall giving our Alice the same birthday as the real Alice... but it's been so many years, perhaps I've forgotten something. Thanks!

American McGee

Well, if you mean very literally, it was 14 years between the real world release of Alice and Madness Returns ^^

Timeline stuff seems reasonable. Seeing how we have a date for Alice's birthday perhaps we could have a grim birthday party in the asylum? This could lead into some interesting imagery and show early signs of denial or depression for Alice. Once reading the character ideas and the doctor is claims that Alice is running out of money I remembered at memory from AMA that has Alice's lawyer, Radcliffe I think his name was, talk about her have a lot of inheritance money from her parents. As always I hope this was useful See you at stream

It's been only a year between AMA and A:MR? I could've swear it was more time! It's nice to have a guide to learn more about Alice.

Priscila Nosoma

I was thinking about the cat, the comments and first picture when Alice communicates, and the timeline. As Kendall Straley says, I thought Alice was younger than the timeline makes her; but I can't back that up as I haven't replayed the games in a while...I think I will soon (wish they were on Xbox One)...anyway, regarding the cat. I would thing that the cat would start out as a soft, cuddly almost constant companion at the start of her journey, then being torn away from her when she needs the crutch of him most, coming back from time to time as she hits particularly low points/needs guidance while getting more and more mangey and edgy as the story unfolds - a possible side story could be how/why the cat changes - perhaps, the cat is initially 'lost' in some kind of fire in Wonderland, which would explain the lost hair and tie in with the FIRE and loss in Alice's real life. The cat then comes back (miraculous survival? - using up one of his 9 lives? ) periodically to guide Alice through the stages of grief...appearing more often if she slips backwards - getting edgier the more she stumbles back. the tattoos should appear over time and multiple appearances....just suggesting - if you can't tell, I'm a fan of the Cat.

I suppose you could clone your self and take yourself to dinner and a movie. Or you could date yourself by making references from the 80s and 90s to 20 year olds also, I do frequently at work xp and often find myself feeling so alone haha. Interesting seeing things all layed out, I did think she was 18 then 19 as someone else mentioned when she went from American Mcgee's Alice to Alice: Madness Returns but I trust whatever the time line ends up is correct considering you guys created it X3.

This timeline is awesome, thanks! I don’t see any mistakes myself, but I can’t remember all the dates too well myself. I thought there may have been a little more time based on the nurse in AMR like Kendall was saying, but I’d need to replay it to make sure. Also, so glad to see the patches. Ordered mine as soon as I saw the link. Unfortunately, despite the Alice series being tied for my favorite series of all time, I didn’t hear about your Patreon until this month. I’m still excited to get here all though! Looks like I’ll be sticking around for a while.

I had always had questions about the time line and love going more into depth about alice's life. I'm so excited to hear about more. With the little information I have (past matters, alice madness returns) it sounds like you have everything spot on. I can wait to hear more about this 'incident' that refers to alice harming someone else in the asylum and greatly hope you will stock to elaborating on that :) can't wait to get my patches. Thank you again for the update. P.s. so cool to finally see the first drawing alice made when awoken from her comatose state of being. Absolutely fabulous. Let's hope the cheshire cat actually keeps his head in this game! 😂😂

I just love any pics of the kitty, no idea about time lines as I generally just enjoy things and tend to forget details like that. I'm sure you guys will get it all figured out

If I remember correctly (and I'll have to double check which game said what), the timeline went more like this: Alice was 8 when the fire occurred, and spent a year in Littlemore Infirmary for severe third degree burns (per Nurse Witless in AMR, which would then put Alice at 9 at her earliest when she was transferred to Rutledge Asylum). Wilson said that she spent most of her time in Rutledge in a catatonic state, but I don't recall if either game definitively states how long she spent in such a state, so it's perfectly possible that she could be 13 when she finally starts to "wake up." At this point, Wonderland would've been given a nice chunk of time to fall into a state of complete disrepair and chaos. Other timeline points that I can't really place (because I don't remember which piece of info came from which game) include the fact that Alice spent 10 years in Rutledge Asylum, so she was 19 when she was released in AMA, and AMR is meant to take place only a couple of months after she's released. At best, Alice is 19/MAYBE 20 by the time AMR concludes.

Really? Try one! They're delicious.

Rosuav

I too would like to pop a date in my mouth. Never had one before, surprisingly. (　ﾟдﾟ)

Wow, it's pretty helpful , it organise lots of events , by the way , my birthday is the 2nd of November, death's day and Día de Muertos 😄

Thank you for this calendar. While I'm sure all the information is available if pieced together, it's extremely helpful to have it summarized in one place.

Rosuav