What do you want to know about heated beds?
Added 2019-04-22 15:32:30 +0000 UTCI'll be filming a video on the thermal performance of various types of heated beds tomorrow, using a FLIR camera and a bunch of different tests I've already sketched out. But the question is, what do you want to see tested or mythbusted when it comes to how well different setups perform?
Also, if you've already made up your mind on what the "best" type of heated bed is, which one do you think will overall perform the best and why?
Looking forward to your thoughts!
Comments
Removable bed sheets being more and more common I’d love to see you apply your scientific process to how heated beds at high temps relate to magnets. Especially the ones we can buy our selves to make our own diy magnetic beds. I’ve done this with most of my printers using magnetic film sheets and carbon spring steel but it cont do abs. As a teacher I don’t use abs in school “just in case” but I’d love to see a more thorough analysis of this topic.
Carlos Varas
2019-05-01 14:04:39 +0000 UTCJesper, you are one of a kind... I have same questions as you and one more: how fast does the bed heat up at 12v vs 24v and what is the power draw when the bed is heated with and without the extruder at same time?
Iulian Hutan
2019-04-23 18:35:42 +0000 UTC1. Using 24V on 12V (standard reprap HB) does this improve warping of bed. do the problem persists after a few minutes wait? or does it "level out"? 2. using 12V on 12V side, does it level less or more than using the 12V? 3. How does the temperature flux actually work with propper PID tuning compared to "stock" after all, PID only measures in the middle. especially if PID really makes the bed more even in temp? (As I would think) 4. Is warping (ABS) related to the fact, the temp sensor in the middle (people often prints right there) gets covered by the print, and therefore begins to have less accuracy? and hence, starts to "lower" bed temp towards the outside of the printed ares?
Jesper Svensson
2019-04-23 08:29:44 +0000 UTCDo different PCB trace patterns really have a meaningful effect on the heat distribution? Does it have a meaningful effect on bed warping? What effect do removable type beds have on heat distribution?
Byron Hameline
2019-04-23 03:29:10 +0000 UTCWhat type of heated beds keep their temperature longer, ie less reheating throughout the print. Probably more dependent on your PID tuning though...
Byron Hameline
2019-04-23 03:26:45 +0000 UTCI am interested in seeing what kind of efficiency gains and space heating gains there could be when insulating the bed. If the printer is in a small room with no climate control, what effects would insulation have on a handful of printers in there.
Byron Hameline
2019-04-23 03:25:30 +0000 UTCHow much effect is there on nozzle-bed distance? What's optimal bed heat time? Why do a bunch of people print PLA with heated beds when most YT'ers say it's not needed?
mooklepticon
2019-04-23 00:53:27 +0000 UTCHow much of an advantage is it to add an insulated layer below the bed? (cork + 3M for example)
Sund
2019-04-22 23:56:37 +0000 UTCAnother vote for difference between actual bed temperature and thermistor readings.
Paul Arden
2019-04-22 23:30:37 +0000 UTCDoes insulating the bottom of the bed speed up the warm-up process?. Are there negative effects to doing so? {Warping, overheating of the wires. Many wire and connectors are rated 90C.
Tim Stevens
2019-04-22 23:15:57 +0000 UTCCan printing a single line perimeter around the actual desired print allow a heated bed to work as a heated enclosure, allowing the printing of more sensitive materials like ABS?
Tim Stevens
2019-04-22 23:10:31 +0000 UTCDoes adding mass of glass to the bed make the y axis acceleration too slowly for normal print speeds?
Tim Stevens
2019-04-22 23:00:46 +0000 UTCMe tooI am interested for the Filafarm solutions. I have one, a plate 460 x 460mm custom made aluminium for my (old) German RepRap X400 and on top a filaprint and bottomside a siliconheat matt 230V. It is really a good solution and works perfect. The downside is the heavy weight of the 6mm plate. The Printer moves the bed in z-direction. I can not print with a appropriate speed. The heating takes a long time for the aluminium thickness. I search for a solution to place the temperature sensor on the top. Probably I can mill the plate to the half (on the bottom side) to have lesser speed problems and faster heating. Filafarm hopefully in a future video?
Andreas Litmanowitsch
2019-04-22 22:36:29 +0000 UTCI'd be curious to know what effect adding a glass bed on top of an existing aluminium one (e.g. to correct warping) has. Does it take additional time to get the printing surface to the desired temperature, or does it never hit the target at all?
Paul Smith
2019-04-22 21:39:24 +0000 UTCProbably won't be testing this one, sorry... I think I'll only be comparing stock setups in this one without doing mods back and forth for this video (but maybe an upcoming one).
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 21:03:04 +0000 UTCDetails like this should be very clear from the thermal images!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 21:02:09 +0000 UTCMy expectation is that aluminum will win over glass when it comes to evenness - but the tests will be the judge of that!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 21:01:27 +0000 UTCEven if it's warmer than ambient it will still be off - I'll probably end up spraypainting some glass beds matte black ;-)
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 21:00:40 +0000 UTCCan silicone mats/pads be added to a resin printer like the Anycubic Photon to create a heated chamber? Of course, this would be controlled by an external regulator, but is it possible or just a waste of my time? Thanks
Justin Flugum
2019-04-22 19:25:55 +0000 UTCWhen I sleep, should I use a heated bed or a heated quilt?
Ted Timmons
2019-04-22 19:25:38 +0000 UTCWhat effects overvolting PSU has on heated bed warm up times?
Kevin Koerner
2019-04-22 19:17:43 +0000 UTCBe careful when using thermal imaging on reflective surfaces. It should be OK as long as the surface is the hottest thing in the room, but at the right angle you may get a refection from a hot studio lamp or similar.
John Arild Lolland
2019-04-22 18:28:23 +0000 UTCHi! What do you think? PCB or silicone pad gives more even heating, better performance?
Krisztián Sztojanov
2019-04-22 18:11:39 +0000 UTCI think in addition to the differences in heating performance between the different kinds of heaters it would also be very interesting to see how much deformation each of them cause in the bed (and / or layer on top) between the cool and heated states.
Ulrich Petri
2019-04-22 17:57:22 +0000 UTCHow much of the heated bed is effectively used for part adhesion. For example if we had 100mm x 100m heated bed and aluminum plate to match. How much of that area is a reasonably constant temperature and usable? Maybe because of the edges being exposed there is about a 5mm border that drops too low to be considered part of the usable print bed area? If that is the case can we compensate with an over-sized aluminum plate to achieve our desired print volume?
Nathan Moore
2019-04-22 17:47:09 +0000 UTCSimple one, does putting insulation on the bottom of the bed make any difference at all. I'm not sure it does. :-)
Pinkmouse
2019-04-22 17:44:01 +0000 UTCIt just depends on how much power you put in per area - a 12V heater can heat up in minutes, too, as long as you're able to supply and switch enough current (which becomes impractical at some point). Power per area influences both heatup time and maximum achievable temperature.
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 17:06:50 +0000 UTCSuper interesting topic, but a bit outside the scope of this video. Also, when you think about it, it's actually quite the challenge to test this reliably - you want to same machine and need to swap (destroy) a full surface for each test. Though when the Mendel9000 is done (working on it right now), it'll be the right machine for the job!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 16:53:18 +0000 UTCDifference in force required to remove a part between heated state and room temperature state for different bed surfaces and materials. In other words, if I print a specific material, what material should the bed be so the print holds during printing, but releases completely when the bed cools down. I realize there are a lot of possible permutations to test, but nobody is doing this kind of testing systematically, and I think this would be super useful information to have. Also, if you do something like this, please test Filafarm's FilaPrint. I haven't seen anyone else testing that surface, but in my own experience (study of n=1, I guess), it's the best surface I've used for PLA and PETG. I can't pull off parts by hand when the bed is heated, but can literally just tilt the bed and PLA parts slide right off when it's at room temp.
LKM
2019-04-22 16:39:35 +0000 UTCGot you covered!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 16:38:39 +0000 UTCPLA can work on an unheated bed, but using even a weak heated bed makes printing especially larger parts a lot more predicatable imo.
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 16:37:47 +0000 UTCProbably a bit outside the scope of this one, but I'll keep it in mind for future comparisons!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 16:37:00 +0000 UTCI have a much more basic question in my head. Does a heated bed even buy you anything when using materials like PLA? I have an Ender 3 (with a heated bed) and a FlashForge Inventor IIs (without), and both print PLA just fine. I've wondered whether there are any subtle differences between pieces printed on either printer due to whether the bed is heated or not.
Marc Chametzky
2019-04-22 16:23:24 +0000 UTCLooking forward to good scientific methods on this. Building a large hypercube at the moment and I'm likely to go 'off-kit' on the heatbed at some point. So this is another welcome topic.
Timothy Wilson
2019-04-22 16:16:21 +0000 UTCThere is 'time efficiency' though, 12V beds are effectively useless after a certain size right? I don't want to wait 20-30 minutes for bed heating for example.
Timothy Wilson
2019-04-22 16:14:46 +0000 UTCI wonder how long it usually takes for the heat to distribute evenly throughout the build plate. By this you could determine whether we need to wait after the thermistor reads the set temperature. (Of course that depends a lot on the machine, but maybe there is something to learn :) )
Agnahim
2019-04-22 16:12:17 +0000 UTCI'd like to know how much heat is gained (also in the border areas) if you put different insulation material below the heat bed like: nothing, cardboard, cork, insulating wool.
Christian Wessels
2019-04-22 16:09:58 +0000 UTCI'll include a printer with a silicone-heater on glass - mains voltage shouldn't change performance much, after all they're all 100% efficient in turning electricity into heat ;-)
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 15:52:38 +0000 UTCRead my mind - those are some of the exact topics I'll be covering ;-)
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 15:51:30 +0000 UTCI'll make sure to include different stackups!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 15:50:42 +0000 UTCI don't have a good way of testing these for this video, but I'll keep it in mind for future ones. My understanding so far of multi-zone heated beds has been that you need some sort of insulation between the zones for them to be useful - either an airgap with an aluminum top or using a 3mm glass top and then not using the outer-most centimeter or two of the inner zone.
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 15:50:23 +0000 UTCI'm curious to see how much a glass over a heated bed helps diffuse great more evenly (or not), and what the difference between pcb, kapton and silicon sticker heaters perform in terms of heat diffusion. Biggest point of interest is how much of a temperature differential one should expect when using thermistors on the underside of a bed versus what's the average diffused temperature, based on what kind of bed plate is used (aluminum, borosilicate glass or spring steel)
Jonathan Charnas
2019-04-22 15:49:27 +0000 UTCOh, that's a good one, I know some beds that warp two or three layer heights up and down. I'll add it to the list!
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 15:48:20 +0000 UTCKenevo silicone heating pads using mains voltage.
John Link
2019-04-22 15:48:04 +0000 UTCAlso check the effects of removable print surfaces like the Prusa steel sheet, glass, printbite, etc.
Thom Sturgill
2019-04-22 15:46:13 +0000 UTCGot that covered! I'll test a part-cooling-like-fan blowing over one spot and seeing how far it cools down the various PCB/glass/aluminum heated bed stacks.
Thomas Sanladerer
2019-04-22 15:42:54 +0000 UTCI've always been curious how much the bed deforms and expands as it heats up, and how long it takes for that deformation to settle down after reaching the set temperature.
kbranch
2019-04-22 15:42:34 +0000 UTCGreat topic! I've always been curious about how much a small draft (central air conditioning, heater vent, open window, fan....ect) has on the heated bed
Charlie Layne
2019-04-22 15:35:11 +0000 UTCIs there a point to a fault zone bed. I ask b/c I have a kenevo 40x40 dual zone 120v. But running the inside zone only is pretty much pointless and takes a significant more time and power to heatup the entire bed.
Shai Perednik
2019-04-22 15:34:47 +0000 UTC
