Ozymandias Extended Discussion!
Added 2024-08-19 08:21:12 +0000 UTCComments
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Jacob Livingston
2025-06-01 21:59:45 +0000 UTCI would love these two in a podcast with guest and discussions on mental & emotional health. I have already benefited from the discussions that have been had on this channel. It’s part of why I stay with the channel and would love to hear this more often.
Arson Stays Up Too Late Watching Video Tapes
2024-09-08 06:32:08 +0000 UTCThat’s a good point. Arguably, he was a lost cause from the moment he decided to sell meth. Obviously, watching him struggle with the morality of his choices is what makes the show interesting. But thinking he WOULD turn himself in is maybe a stretch.
Parker Mills
2024-09-06 18:17:04 +0000 UTCI don't really fault him for killing Crazy 8, they held a gun to him and threatened him. Then he finds that a piece of that plate is missing showing that he clearly was going to kill him. Walt actually didn't want to do it. Like, you can say he should just turn himself in but I don't think that's very reasonable. I do think the bigger indication of where his head was at was him getting involved in the drug trade at all. He didn't have to do that. His pride would not allow him to take money or a job from his friends at Grey Matter.
Jesse
2024-09-02 11:36:28 +0000 UTCDelusional take. Also Walter is the one who left Gray Matter, no one forced him out. He's full of regret over that choice and took out the self resentment on them.
Pale Ale
2024-08-25 22:41:17 +0000 UTCThe "Walt is the real hero, Skylar is the villain who made him do all those bad things" takes always come across as extremely cringe.
DTGstl314
2024-08-24 06:57:42 +0000 UTCDemented take
Christophe
2024-08-23 18:23:59 +0000 UTCThat's certainly a take.
Demented Avenger
2024-08-23 14:42:02 +0000 UTCBtw, Vince Gilligan has confirmed that Walter was never pushed out of Grey Matter and that it was entirely his own ego and pride that caused him to leave. What he tells Jesse is a warped version of events from his perspective. The truth is that he was intimidated by Gretchen’s affluent family and lashed out at her because of it. You can infer this from his earlier meeting with Gretchen where she doesn’t understand why Walter resents her so much.
Brett Heller
2024-08-22 19:05:26 +0000 UTCI've seen some nightmarish takes over the years and have concluded that a lot (but not necessarily all) of the outspoken Walt apologists are blinded by their hate towards Skylar. And to be completely honest, while I never full on hated Skylar, I do think my opinion on her has matured over the past 10+ years since I binged this series for the first time. For all the future fathers reading this: you are in for one hell of a realization when your s/o becomes pregnant for the first time. The bare minimum of supporting her through it is communication and being supportive. I hope your situation is 1000x more fortunate than the White family's because the hate for Skylar is so overkill. Is she a thorn in the flesh for Walt early on in the series? Sure. Can she be overtly dramatic at times? Sure. But what do you expect? Consider what she is dealing with: a pregnant mother whose hormones are naturally bouncing off the freaking walls, unable to work, and living check to check off of her reclusive dying husband’s low income salary as an overqualified high school chemistry teacher. Oh and she also has a crippled son to raise and will likely have to figure out how to put him through college on her own. Marriage is a union, and burdens like these should never be taken on alone. They should be navigated together with your spouse to collectively make the best possible decision(s) for your family. The absolute best decision that Walt could have made was accepting Elliot's offer. Instead, he made an extremely shitty choice without even thinking about discussing it first with Skylar. He prioritized his own toxic pride and ego over the well-being of his pregnant wife, disabled son, and unborn daughter. He selfishly took on a life of crime and endangered his entire family. Sure, he probably did not realize the gravity of that danger when he first got into the meth game. But any rational person who was dumb enough to turn down Elliot's offer the first time would have went running back immediately after the Krazy-8 & Emilio situation. Moral of the story: Being a good father and a good husband requires one to swallow their pride when life throws this big of a curve ball at you. Learn to swallow your pride because your family should always come first. Walt failed to do this and all of the people around him suffered as a result. He is an incredibly well written character, but clearly went from being a poor man the audience pitied to an anti hero to the true villain of the series. So if you find yourself justifying Walt's actions while condemning Skylar out of spite, truly reflect on whether you would have made the same choices in his place. Truly consider things from Skylar's perspective and how you would have responded. Thank you for listening to my TEDTalk 🙂
Keanu
2024-08-21 07:08:00 +0000 UTCSome things should be kept as inside thoughts!
Chad Gloria
2024-08-21 04:38:30 +0000 UTCBut wouldn’t killing Crazy 8 put him in more danger with the cartel? Wouldn’t that put him more on their radar? Don’t get me wrong. I think your point is valid, and maybe he thought it was the only way. But if he told Hank what happened in the first episode, his family would have probably been more safe than they were by the end of the show.
Parker Mills
2024-08-21 00:49:57 +0000 UTC"it was ego" yes it was absolutely ego, and Skylar trampled this ego when she called Elliott... Reminding to Walt the biggest regret of his life. Everyone has an ego... And trample the ego of a dying man, reminding his regrets, is the best way to make him break all the limits... The fact that Skylar wanted to control everything made that she losed the control on Walt. This entire show could be summarized by the sentence: "hell is paved with good intentions", and it's true for all characters
dolo
2024-08-20 16:37:35 +0000 UTCObviously, Skylar did the worst move of the show calling Elliott.. She reminds him (walt) the biggest regret of his life and trample his ego. Trample the ego of a dying man is the best way to make him break the limits...
dolo
2024-08-20 16:29:38 +0000 UTCAll of the show starts because Skylar wanted to DRIVE EVERYTHING, even the death of walt, he wanted to live his last few monthes with his familly, not to pay 200k to "may be survive". The reason he started to cook is literaly to not let a big medical debt to his familly. Next, skylar AGAIN wanted to drive WHO's gonna pay for this, Eliot and his wife who "stole" the idea of Walt and became rich with his creation... worst egoist move ever to remind the biggest regret of his life... Walt became what he became because of Skylar's obsession of control... She loved the weak and submitted Walt, when he started to change, she cheated on him, and it's before she knew the truth... She's a trigger in this story unconsciously.
dolo
2024-08-20 16:06:08 +0000 UTCHe killed crazy 8 because he had no choice to protect his familly. The dude knew about his name, his family, his job...
dolo
2024-08-20 15:44:17 +0000 UTCOOOO cool tidbit!!!!
Arianna
2024-08-20 12:33:29 +0000 UTCWe love the show…. I second the comment above. We can dislike the main character and still throughly enjoy the show. We spew its praises in the discussion.
Arianna
2024-08-20 12:31:27 +0000 UTCright. i was talking to someone about that and they were talking about the scene like walt had no choice. he even called it "self defense". i think the episode does a good job of making turning himself in not even come to mind.
Chad Gloria
2024-08-20 06:50:05 +0000 UTCWhen I first watched the show, I thought the turning point for Walter was when he let Jane die. But looking back, in the first season he kills Crazy 8 out of fear of getting caught. He could have gone to the police, but he didn’t even consider it an option.
Parker Mills
2024-08-20 04:15:07 +0000 UTCcould you explain?
nickmcjink
2024-08-20 03:03:02 +0000 UTCive watched people react to this over and over and over and i have never seen 2 people not like it so much. Not understand it so much. it's so crazy to me.
Nick Kessler
2024-08-20 02:37:46 +0000 UTCThanks so much for this discussion! Ozymandias completely threw me for a loop. One thing that really hits hard for me this episode is the shot of Walt as he collapses after Hank dies. As his head hits the floor, Vince added in pistons in the dirt that moved, on impact, which gave those cracks in the ground below his head. They were added as more symbolism, that Walt in this moment, is feeling the weight of all of his decisions crash down on him, as he loses his brother in law, Marie loses a husband, and his kids lose a father figure. Such a small detail, but such a brilliant trick to have in the moment. Theres too many things I could say that I love about this episode and really, the entire show. But I just love how human each character is. Each of them is just a mess of a person, trying to navigate through the choices people like Walt make, and even Walt himself trying to work through the shit he gets himself into. I absolutely cannot wait for El Camino and Better Call Saul! I'm just gonna say.... the absolute brilliance of the writers and the creators does NOT stop with Breaking Bad! 🙌❤️
Lorenzo Baxter
2024-08-20 00:43:30 +0000 UTCYeah the baby saying 'Mama' was an accident and Bryan Cranston just rolled with it because he's a fucking boss
Stewart MacInnes
2024-08-19 23:26:47 +0000 UTCLadies! great discussion! You really did a thorough, erudite deep-dive into what is arguably the greatest episode of TV ever created! Lots of fun. :)
Chris Bruneau
2024-08-19 22:53:43 +0000 UTCi had heard it was just an accidental take while filming as well. i assume writing a line for a baby that young wouldnt be something people do, i would assume they'd show him coming to his senses in some way, but Holly made a good scene that made the cut.
Joshua Luzania
2024-08-19 21:15:32 +0000 UTCThis scene is interesting because there’s two interpretations and it’s possible the meaning changed while filming. One interpretation is that he always planned to use Holly’s kidnapping to “talk to the police”. The other is that it was honestly a kidnapping and that when Holly asks for her “mama” he realizes how foolish it is to try to take her. I subscribe to the second theory because I think that scene with Holly has more power if his decision isn’t already made. However, that scene was not written that way. Holly asking for her mama was the baby actor literally asking for her mama and Bryan Cranston just rolled with it. They liked it so much they kept in. So it’s entirely possible the kidnapping was originally written to be part of a larger plan, but keeping the moment with Holly changes the reading, cause Walt really looks like his emotions are shifting there.
Eric Wall
2024-08-19 20:46:43 +0000 UTCVince Gilligan believes he broke bad when he didn't accept the help/job from Elliott. So it's really interesting how important season one was, even though it wasn't the strongest of the seasons. It definitely wasn't weak and solidified the foundation of the series. If you listen to the Breaking Bad podcasts as they were filming it (AMC Remember My Name), it's fascinating. Though there's a lot of back-patting and starts out weak as an early podcast, it gets better and better as more of the artists join in. I'm so glad you completed this series. I found it later in life can't convince my friends to watch it. It's a masterpiece and one of the few series I've researched and rewatched. Here is my link suggestion page: https://mybreakingbad.weebly.com
Terri
2024-08-19 18:00:33 +0000 UTCYeah we deff agree! I totally neglected to answer where on Walt I just couldn't go back because I do agree with Arianna on Jane but it's also when he is no longer sick
Chad Gloria
2024-08-19 15:34:49 +0000 UTCI think when Walt took Holly, he was still in a manic mode, just trying to cling to the only family member that might still love him, now that Skylar and Jr are just so afraid of him now, but as soon as Holly said "Mama", his world crashed around him and he realized the only way he could help Holly is to give her back to Skylar and do his best to clear her and keep her out of jail, which then leads to the phone call.
Joshua Luzania
2024-08-19 14:38:38 +0000 UTCRe: "In the beginning he had better intentions"... eh... That excuse went out the window the moment he was offered to have his medical expenses and his family taken care of ... without having to go into a business that gets people killed. It was ego - which you've by now seem him admit to.
Michael Bauer
2024-08-19 14:32:31 +0000 UTCI loved this discussion you both did such a wonderful job breaking down the episode and allot of the series. For me this is still the greatest show on tv I have ever seen. Thanks for insightful episode recap.
Chris Perry
2024-08-19 12:53:38 +0000 UTC
