sirlin

sirlin

Sirlin on Game Design, Podcast Episode 2: Cooperative Games

Added 2014-11-05 21:35:37 +0000 UTC

Episode 2 of my podcast is up. Thanks to all the patrons supporting it.

Sirlin on Game Design, Podcast Episode 2: Cooperative Games

Comments

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if the "dominant player problem" is actually a feature, not a bug, for certain people. For example, in Pandemic, most people just play with their cards revealed all the time, right? Well, if you're a parent playing with young children, or if you're an experienced gamer who's trying to introduce people who don't normally play board games to the hobby, then maybe the fact that you can look at everyone's hand and you can guide your co-op partners along when they get stuck is a good thing?

2014-11-26 08:17:34 +0000 UTC

I get what you're saying, but in a purely co-op game, isn't the line simply getting any extra information outside of what's allowed? (Or is that too much of a tautology? It's a hint if it's a hint?) If someone is dropping hints purposefully, that's cheating, and not much you can do to stop that via any game rules. But if you're inadvertently hinting something, I think that pointing that out and trying to avoid doing so in the future is part of playing the game better. I.e., getting as close to a "pure" form of the game as you can? (Kind of like doing crosswords - I consider outside sources as cheating, but if that makes it more enjoyable for someone else, that's fine by me. I'm not comparing myself against other people, but rather against my own performance each time.) Anyway, thanks for the discussion! It's been helpful for thinking through why I think Hanabi does a better job at being an information-based co-op game than other games. (I generally dislike playing Pandemic, Camelot, BSG, etc. for the reasons that you lay out, but don't have that problem with Hanabi.)

2014-11-21 01:27:30 +0000 UTC

Hanabi's squishy rules are NOT comparable to drawing a card when you aren't supposed to. If you can't draw a card, but you do, you broke a very clear rule with no ambiguity. If you "can't say too much about something" but you can talk in general, there's all sorts of squishiness. I mean we're all sitting around the table talking, I'd hope, and that talk can contain various different levels of potential hints, tells, etc that are supposedly regulated. How exactly? What counts as not a hint and what counts as a hint? We're just doomed from the start if we're asking that. You can't even help but leak info when you speak to other humans. The tone of your voice or whatever can indicate how much you can help with X card, or if someone is on the right track, etc. There's no good way to even define what the line is. Meanwhile, there is a very very good way to determine "if you drew a card." Either did draw it or you didn't. But did you "hint slightly too much" by the look in your eye? If we have to ask that, that's a non-solution to the original claimed problem.

2014-11-20 22:20:57 +0000 UTC

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