🖖Star Trek DS9 S01E15 Full Length Reaction
Added 2025-03-30 02:37:10 +0000 UTCS01E15 Progress
This week we get a Kira-centric episode that left me feeling a bit uneasy about the resolution, but I do appreciate that DS9 is more morally ambiguous than other Trek I've watched. Also please excuse my chit chat through the theme, I have been thinking about DS9 on non-Trek days and pondering some things lol. Engage! 🖖
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Comments
I guess there is a insignificant energy cost, but the federation doesn't charge Quark or anyone for using replicators, they don't have money. I don't know if the Bajorans do though.
Jake
2025-04-05 20:29:58 +0000 UTCNo Quark did not get to use his replicator for free... but it was much much cheaper than importing real world drinks. However, the reason people would come to Quark's bar was not for the drinks. It was for the interaction with people. This is a thin Quark understood and fully exploited.
Carlos Stevens
2025-04-05 04:05:31 +0000 UTCI loved that you discussed your thoughts about the world building during the Credits.
TheADHDOverlord
2025-04-03 00:57:40 +0000 UTCHi, Jen, replicators produce “synthahol,” which tastes like alcohol but doesn’t get one drunk. While quark does replicate stuff, he also has bottles of real spirits, which he acquires via trade or….theft
Michael Tuffin
2025-03-30 19:17:14 +0000 UTCThere's a fair amount of moral ambiguity in this show, and one og the things that makes it different from other trek show (pre-2009). DS9 doesn't shy away from untidy/sticky situations. I'm not sure how Picard would've dealt with this, he didn't get these types of stories very often. Jake and Nog are great, and we love them because they are normal kids. And we can identify with them.
Kristin D
2025-03-30 18:55:32 +0000 UTCOne of the hidden gems of S1, which a lot of Kira-focused episodes tend to be. Really showed off the potential of what types of smaller, personal stories could be told with these particular set of characters. Also felt this was one of Sisko's best 'command' moments of the season. As for the Jake & Nog b-story, not really a spoiler to say it's the first of a very loose, mostly unconnected run of episodes throughout the series of what I'd call The Great River Trilogy. Trust me, that'll only make sense towards the end.
Sykonee
2025-03-30 16:25:54 +0000 UTCI didn't think she was the one making the overall decision, I meant she chose not to protest it. If she wanted she could've camped right there with him in defiance but she didn't do that. Like I said, I think she did what she could in a bad situation to save his life
Jen M
2025-03-30 16:21:02 +0000 UTCImho this is where peak ds9 begins. Also self sealing stem bolts.
SPS
2025-03-30 15:12:08 +0000 UTCA really quintessentially DS9 episode, in contrast to the faux-DS9 A story in last week's ep, "The Storyteller." As another comment mentioned, the basic plot set-up is similar to the season 3 TNG ep "The Ensigns of Command," but the emphasis is quite different, since the heart of the story is the way Kira's new responsibilities challenge her values and sense of self. It also makes a big difference that where in TNG we never see or hear about those colonists ever again, this is another chapter in an ongoing story - following the pilot, "Past Prologue," and last episode's B story - of Bajor's efforts to rebuild and all the conflicts over land, resources, and authority that come with that struggle, so the moral weight of Kira's actions at the end is less abstract. It's a key early episode that shows how the greater emphasis on an ongoing story arc, as opposed to TNG's more episodic structure, affects the storytelling on DS9.
Cinedazed
2025-03-30 14:30:48 +0000 UTCI enjoy watching your reactions, Jen. Thank you. 🩵
Lex
2025-03-30 13:04:44 +0000 UTCI'm on the side of the farmer.
Forbidden Donut
2025-03-30 13:04:22 +0000 UTCQuark using replicators was a plot point earlier in the season when it was the source of the aphasia virus. So he uses them a non zero amount
William Rosmer
2025-03-30 11:30:09 +0000 UTCThe Federation is neither post-scarcity nor is it post-capital. It may be generally understood that way but it would be incorrect. If it were both of those things, there would be nothing stopping Starfleet from just spamming Sovereign Classes, it’s clearly a concern or the Defiant wouldn’t exist, there would be no reason to keep around the Miranda Class and so on. It’s also a type of capitalist system in that individuals producing labor get to keep and benefit from that labor which is all capitalism is. This is shown to be the case throughout all of the series. The key difference being that what were shown is skewed heavily towards the perspective of Starfleet and in general it seems to be the case that society expects people to labor towards the benefit of society first, and self second. But as an example, scientists that make great societal improving breakthroughs are lauded for them, they become famous and immortalized. Dr. Richard Daystrom for example. The truth of the matter is, that the Federation economy (actually all of the economies in Trek) are beasts that are hybrids of what they currently are, which we are incapable of really understanding and what they were overlayed upon prior to when they crossed the threshold into becoming a warp capable, multi star system government entity.
Sonny Smith
2025-03-30 09:55:19 +0000 UTCWonderful to see your DS9 reactions doing well , waking up and seeing already 33 comments (which I can't read ofc until I've watched cuz it would spoil it for me ) is great 🖖 . Having now watched I can say I really enjoyed this one , I have a niece called Kira as you know so be her name nerys or Kira both are beautiful names so both work . I'm with you Jen Im really enjoying the kids in this show nog has a brilliant mischievous expression a lot of the time 😀 . I actually thought the guy was going to run into the burning building tbh go down with his ship so to speak which would have been super sad . I do hope we get to see him again No Spoilers ! . I look every episode for Spock in the intro but just can't see it either 🤷 anyways this was great cheers Jen and happy next Jen Sunday everyone hope to see you all in the live chat later
Ian
2025-03-30 08:37:05 +0000 UTCFor the record Jen Kira is her first name. They do the family name first and given name last. Major Kira Nerys.
Sean Jackson
2025-03-30 08:07:16 +0000 UTCIn retrospect this is probably the first episode on Kira’s journey to becoming probably my favorite character in all of Star Trek. I remember it being ‘Duet’ but this is a really good early Kira Episode. As far as Quark’s, that’s not really how the economy runs, even in the Federation. However, this being Bajor where having physical money still matters Quark would have several costs associated with the business. Aside from the lease on the station from the Bajoran government, replicator use would also incur a cost as it’s a high energy consuming process and energy is most likely what all of these government’s are most likely trading in. Pulling resources from the stations energy supply would incur a cost just as the Holosuites consuming energy would incur a cost. It’s also at least implied, if not implicitly stated that not everything at Quark’s is replicated and that a lot of what can be replicated at Quark’s can’t be replicated at the communal replicators on the promenade which are implied to be free but very limited in selection. This is also what is implied to be installed in the crew quarter’s but those can be programmed with additional recipes from the occupant.
Sonny Smith
2025-03-30 06:34:29 +0000 UTCThis episode hits a sensitive nerve for me. My grandfather was in a similar situation, he was forced to sell his beautiful home that he spent 50 years building, because a mining company bought the land close to him. He only had enough money to buy a small apartment, it made his health decline so rapidly that he died within a year. The man in this episode reminded me a lot of my grandfather. DS9 in very good at showing how even in this utopic world, 'Progress' (the title) is still a continuing process.
EmptyDice
2025-03-30 06:10:40 +0000 UTCMoral Ambiguity is what defines DS9. One more month till Duet and then the Season 1 finale :)
Zork
2025-03-30 06:06:22 +0000 UTCSpace supper. Sounds super!
Thegonagle
2025-03-30 05:58:14 +0000 UTCAnd remember Bajorans reverse their names compared to most other people - Kira is her family name, Nerys is her personal name.
Laura Thornley
2025-03-30 05:54:20 +0000 UTCPartially true. There's no money inside the Federation between citizens - there's hinted to be a form of social credit with a generous bare minimum (housing, clothes, food, medicine, entertainment). There are limited to what you can get (due to non-replicatable resources and energy use, which while abundant isn't limitless) and there are a lot of people so land ownership is limited (seemingly favouring people who use it for social good, such as restaurants or farms) and space travel tends to be limited to short journeys on board freighters unless you serve in Starfleet, another Federation organisation (medical, diplomatic, engineering, exploration) or if you sign up for one of the colony programs. Outside of the Federation citizens seem to be given access to local funds or tradable resources that are accepted by whoever they might encounter. Limited, but comfortable.
Laura Thornley
2025-03-30 05:53:33 +0000 UTCThey did Jake bad with the outfit, but love the NoJake consortium, Kira should have transported everyone when the injury occured, people probably didn’t buy things from Quark they could get from any free replicator, the economy of the Federation is complex fantasy
Harmony through Time
2025-03-30 05:50:58 +0000 UTCShe was told, his fate had already been decided, so she wasn't the one taking his home away. All she did was force him to understand that he had already lost his home, in order to save him from dying. Very similar to the TNG episode with Data... The Ensigns Of Command. It was kind of the same resolution... he attacked their water system to force them to understand why they needed to leave. The wrong had been done by the bureaucrats, and they weren't in a position to change that. It wasn't so much about saving their property as much as saving the people. I think Picard's directive to Data was much the same as Sisko's.
Stevtrek
2025-03-30 05:42:48 +0000 UTCAlso, dang - the Spock face in the cloud is apparently true. Its pretty much a single frame and hazy - but apparently the crew who did the intro credits put it in as a tiny little easter egg!
Laura Thornley
2025-03-30 05:40:27 +0000 UTC“It’s weird for me to get to the end of an episode of Trek and feel morally ambiguous about the main characters” I think that was the tagline for DS9…
Paul Peavler
2025-03-30 05:31:01 +0000 UTCWithin the Federation, there is no real currency or money, and capitalism is generally either illegal or socially unwelcome. The intricacies have never really been fully explored and some stuff has been contradictory over the 60 years and 1000+ hours of Trek content (to say nothing of the “beta canon” stuff like books, comics, games, etc). But it’s generally understood throughout Trek that the Federation is a post-scarcity and post-capital society with no real need for currency in day-to-day life.
Paul Peavler
2025-03-30 05:29:24 +0000 UTCI don't know if you remember the conversation Ro once had with Picard in her first episode. Bajoran's put their name the other way around for example Ro Laren, Kira Nerys. Laren and Nerys are what we would call their Christian/first name. Just so you are aware there are 26 hours in a day in Bajoran space, so don't be confused if a person mentions 26 hours a day, instead of 24 lol.
jon bolton
2025-03-30 05:28:04 +0000 UTCOne of the highlights of the season for me. I seem to really like Kira focused episodes (especially early on) as they tend to be about her personal growth.
Laura Thornley
2025-03-30 05:26:56 +0000 UTCI loved your analysis! In fact I would love to hear more of it. Maybe a podcast of Star Trek thoughts. I think a lot of the exotic drinks Quark has aren't able to be replicated or maybe the replicators only make synthahol. Brian Keith is the name of the actor that plays the old man. He's been in a ton of shows and movies. One of my favorites Sharkey's Machine.
Geoff S.
2025-03-30 05:26:21 +0000 UTCYeah I think it’s pretty clear that most of the food and drink that is sold at Quark’s bar is non-replicated. At that point it’s like a luxury service, you can replicate food in your quarters, but you can go to Quark’s for the real thing. That even exists on Earth, we’ve already seen Picard’d vineyard where they make real wine, and we later see restaurants, so even if within the Federation those things still don’t cost money, they are more limited and luxury resources.
Paul Peavler
2025-03-30 05:25:07 +0000 UTCJen, are you beginning to get used to hearing Sisko say 'Station Log' instead of Picard's 'Captain's Log'? Until you mentioned it the other week i didn't even know about the Spock face thing, i certainly haven't seen it, and i've loved this show for about 15 years.
jon bolton
2025-03-30 05:05:36 +0000 UTCI’m just glad someone didn’t spoil Kira’s name. We actually got Jen being surprised. Anyway, keep in mind quark isn’t just a bar where food & drink is served. He also has gambling and the Holosuites. Those two, like in Vegas, bring in the customers and where he real money is made. Oh, and that guy was so obviously building a Bajoran Pizza Oven.
Julian San
2025-03-30 04:52:06 +0000 UTCI think that citizens of the federation don't "have" to use money since every one of their needs are met by the federation. But the federation itself does trade with other species, they mostly use a ressource economy (exchange goods for other goods) and gold-pressed latinum (a fake currency) because that's what the ferengi alliance uses, and they have their paws in virtually all industries in the Alpha quadrant. But while the replicators makes everything cheap, it still needs energy and "materials" that has to be treated and replenished. The Enterprise has huge tanks of undefined matter that is used for the replicators, holodeck and transporter. Also, not everything can be replicated, like dillithium crystal that they have to mine or buy.
EmptyDice
2025-03-30 04:51:02 +0000 UTCOh you're gonna see more of this ambiguity along the show.
Alexis Vorian
2025-03-30 04:49:55 +0000 UTCI feel like Kira's actions especially at the end are a perfect example of doing the wrong thing for the right reason.
BJ Stephens
2025-03-30 04:23:12 +0000 UTCTechnically they don't use money. They have resources and can trade with other species for whatever they need, but the currency isn't money per see. They mine moons, find resources on planets etc, trade between all federation and some non federation planets. Quark doesn't pay for the usage of replicators. It's brought up in a small way later in the series (as i remember).
Tony Bain
2025-03-30 04:20:04 +0000 UTCLove it. And yeah, things are more ambiguous on this show for sure. Some tough choices and there's often not a perfect solution. I appreciate the thoughts on Quark's Bar and the money and everything - I say ponder all these things whenever you want! A lot of us ponder the same questions so I like hearing it, haha.
Banes
2025-03-30 04:10:59 +0000 UTCThere are a lot of unknowns. The Federation clearly are able to exchange with non-Federation species at an institutional level. They also just give things without trade because it's the right thing to do. On an interpersonal level, it probably varies by planet, even within the Federation. On Earth at least, there is no currency we know of and as best as we can tell people don't pay for homes, food, clothes, or other necessities. You can probably easily trade for currencies like gold-pressed latinum but it won't be useful for almost anything on Earth. There are also likely laws against doing things like gobbling up lots of land, but again, it's all speculation, and we just don't know
Vina
2025-03-30 04:06:43 +0000 UTCYeah. As I said it isn't really consistent over the course of all of the shows but it also isn't mentioned too much so easy enough not to pay much attention to it. This show is a bit harder to look the other way because of Quarks and gold pressed latinum .
TigerMyth
2025-03-30 04:03:14 +0000 UTCYeah but that isn't exactly consistent because they have said they no longer use money when of course they do. They have to pay people outside the Federation. And I doubt you can transfer 10 billion credits to your account. There are still limitations thus they still have a monetary system even though they have said they don't use money.
TigerMyth
2025-03-30 04:01:26 +0000 UTCJen is starting to think like Ferengi's, debating about profit margins and business opportunities lol. Rules of Acquisition #9 Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Lee R.
2025-03-30 03:56:47 +0000 UTCIn this episode Kira faces her own Kobayashi Maru. The no win scenario often leaves a person feeling uneasy.
Joshua M Freeman
2025-03-30 03:56:03 +0000 UTCYes! Just like Ro Laren of TNG
Juan Pablo De La Fuente
2025-03-30 03:46:22 +0000 UTCActually they use Federation Credits. Put a finger on Quark`s PAAD and its done.
Juan Pablo De La Fuente
2025-03-30 03:45:23 +0000 UTCI didn't even know ppl thought the Federation didn't use $. Not dollars but obviously ppl are trading, there are those gold bars around, Quark 'charges' for drinks, etc. I just assumed it was a different system of $. I also assumed replicators were free to use but 🤷♀️
Jen M
2025-03-30 03:13:00 +0000 UTCYou can't delve too deeply into the Federation no longer uses money because they do. And the whole idea is a bit silly because they need money to trade with anyone who isn't in the Federation. DS9 isn't owned by Starfleet. It is Bajoran. I assume Quark does have to pay for replicator usage. They should have just said replicators made food and materials much cheaper thus eliminating poverty. That is all they had to say.
TigerMyth
2025-03-30 03:07:39 +0000 UTCher full name is kira neryes. bajoran names have the family name first and the individual name second.
William Rosmer
2025-03-30 03:06:24 +0000 UTCquark replicates some stuff, but he also keeps some purchased alcohol around. for instance he can replicate wine, but he can't replicate chateau picard wine. he can buy or trade for some, then sell it at the bar though.
William Rosmer
2025-03-30 03:04:29 +0000 UTCYou're right about the bar - people go for the gambling and atmosphere, not for the replicated drinks. But, they also have non-replicated drinks! Also, Bajorans do family name first (like Japan, China, etc)
Vina
2025-03-30 03:01:02 +0000 UTC
