Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 6x18 Full Reaction
Added 2025-04-20 00:48:48 +0000 UTC"Entropy"
Comments
I mean, not wanting to defend Spike too much or anything, but I think he spilled the beans on himself and Buffy at the end to defend Anya. Being able to hurt Buffy at the same time was just a bonus
Arlo Murphy
2025-04-28 02:48:02 +0000 UTCEvery single person has to deal with negative (evil) impulses. I believe Anyanka rationale was that she was just aplying tough justice on behalf of helpless women trapped in male dominated societes. Why would she feel guilty for that? Keep in mind that cruel punishment and painfull executions were part of the established judicial system for millenia. All that people aplying and supporting those punishments were humans with souls .
JOSE HOSANA CARVALHO DA FONSECA
2025-04-21 08:00:36 +0000 UTCWell said!
Lime Pie
2025-04-21 04:49:42 +0000 UTCThis whole discussion is a thing of beauty... I can't really get fully behind hammering Xander as I consider his explosion entirely justified (... and it was an explosion). That being said, the facts are facts here, Xander is immature, doesn't really know what he wants, and is a coward where it came to facing Anya. Did he have a right to be all "high-handed"? Absolutely not, however explosions are by definition uncontrolled and was the natural result of what happened at the Magic Shop. Also, Buffy still doesn't have her (stuff) together and Spike had the right to effectively say "enough" to her game and secret keeping. In a way he stopped being "love's bitch" for one moment in about 100 years or so of existence. Did he mean to? Probably not, yet "having enough of it" can be an eruption in and of itself. Will it take long term? Not likely yet. Long story way too long already... at least two (more likely three) of the four need to get their acts together and Anya is the least blame worthy in this mess even though drunkenly participating in rebound sex isn't a good or healthy thing. She ended up being the most grounded and reasonable in the entire mess. The soul thing? As I already alluded to in previous episodes and someone else provided evident examples this episode discussion. The soul is not the deciding factor in good/evil. Maybe the ability to have empathy is impacted by a soul however, I think Angel/Angelus clouds this due to Angel not being a good man as a human and then becoming a viciously creative psychopath as the vampire Angelus. Has he greatly improved? Yes, even though he is probably the very last Buffyverse character to want to piss off. Okay enough of my stream of consciousness ramble. Looking forward to the concluding of season six. Cheers.
Michael Labs
2025-04-21 02:33:02 +0000 UTCEvery single person has to deal with negative (evil) impulses. I believe Anyanka rationale was that she was just aplying tough justice on behalf of helpless women trapped in male dominated societes. Why would she feel guilty for that? Keep in mind that cruel punishment and painfull executions were part of the established judicial system for millenia.
JOSE HOSANA CARVALHO DA FONSECA
2025-04-20 22:46:15 +0000 UTCNormally I would've laughed too, but in this instance it rubbed me the wrong way. I still can't understand the logic of people (and Cass is certainly not the only one) who blame Spike for sleeping with Anya, after Buffy used and abused him, dumped him, told him to move on, told him he could tell her friends about them, then stood there and said nothing while Xander verbally abused his ex and called Spike a disgusting thing. I've heard people try to justify it, but it always seems to boil down to 'Buffy can do no wrong and Spike belongs to her' vibes.
Maia Brodsky
2025-04-20 18:44:32 +0000 UTCI don't really disagree with anything you said here, but I just want to add context for the Spike going off to torture Dru bit -- that was almost certainly because torture was her thing, her and Angelus' thing, and not really Spike's thing, as he mentioned in season 2 that he doesn't really care for physical torture so much. Spike manifested sadism toward Dru because she loved Angelus and swooned over his sadistic treatment of her. It's very in-charcter for Spike to see that dynamic and try to manifest the same cruelty to win her over. It's still just as fucked up, but I think it's relevant to the character to remember that he wasn't as inherently sadistic as the others. I do agree that him trying to make her love him that way has that sort of 'grand gesture' romantic vibe to it, a very dark and twisted manifestation of romanticism. If he's willing to do that much to the woman he loves because he thinks it's what she needs in order to love him, then he is very dangerous indeed.
Maia Brodsky
2025-04-20 18:29:18 +0000 UTCGotta also disagree about the wedding. He didn't bring the date to *hurt* her, so to speak, but to see if she even cared enough to be jealous, to soothe himself with the knowledge that she did have some kind of feelings for him.
Maia Brodsky
2025-04-20 18:17:05 +0000 UTCI had to pause it and CACKLE when you mocked Spike with the "I never hurt you" after the confrontation scene LMAO!!
Cameron Ferguson
2025-04-20 18:10:56 +0000 UTCI agree with everything except that Spike wanted to hurt Buffy. He told her because he wanted to protect Anya from Xander's attacks. Buffy should have stopped Xander from behaving like this herself, but first of all, she's shocked, and secondly, Xander is her friend, and Anya, unfortunately, is not. That's why she will always give Xander more credit for trust than Anya, Tara, or Spike. She even goes to Spike with a camera, really thinking it's him, because Xander said so.
ThePowerDrome
2025-04-20 16:33:05 +0000 UTCNo I didn't think Buffy loved Spike when I first watched this season. I think it's exactly what she told Tara, I also think it's a form of self harm for her. The depression she's experiencing is so deep that the only way she can feel any sort of real emotion is to sleep with someone she fundamentally hates. At this point she may have feelings for Spike, but I don't think you can classify that as love. Her being upset at Spike for bringing a date to the wedding, stopping Xander from killing him, and then being upset again because Spike slept with Anya isn't an indication of love, to me at least; I think it's more an indication of Buffy not being ready to give up her escape route. As for Spike I've always tended to see him as a Romantic, as in the 18th/19th century definition of Romanticism. The Romantics were a movement that, among other things, were really into this idea of the sublime (something transcending the ordinary) and extremes of feeling and experience. Spike's previous idea of making Dru love him again by tying her up and torturing her is peak Romanticist, if the Romantic in question had no soul and therefore no kind of braking system to tell them when they were going too far. This also means Spike is still incredibly dangerous and more than capable of seriously hurting Buffy, despite his claims to the contrary. I do think he loves Buffy, I just don't think he's capable of loving her unselfishly or in a manner that is in anyway healthy.
Claire Eyles
2025-04-20 15:31:44 +0000 UTCFor me the "Does Buffy love Spike?" question has an easy answer: No. There were times in their relationship that she craved attention and validation, and times that she craved physical affection, and even times that she craved humiliation and degradation, and he was there to provide all of them as needed. But in all that time she never cared about making him feel good, or about building an honest emotional connection that ran both ways. She used him, and let him use her, but it was never "love". I think I've been clear that I'm solidly on the "Against Xander" side of the conversation, and this episode pushes me even further into that position. All of that vitriol that Xander throws at Anya at the end applies exactly to him having a relationship with Anya in the first place. He let an evil, soulless thing touch him, and he had sex with it, and he built a relationship with it, but it's different for him because....because.... Anya's development in season four did bring her closer to being human than she started as, so I no longer view her as an "evil, soulless thing", but that was a development over multiple episodes and Xander doesn't consider that at all. He just doesn't paint himself and Anya with the same brush. I'm also with Anya more specifically on the issue of Xander leaving her at the altar, because he FORCED this wedding. When he first proposed at the end of season five, Anya explicitly said that he was acting out in a moment of panic at the thought of the world ending instead of being emotionally ready. She was right, but he denied it and insisted it was because he was ready. At the beginning of season six, when they were hiding the engagement from the rest of the group, she said that it indicated that Xander was regretting proposing and didn't want to go through with the wedding. She was right, but he again denied it. She has been correct at EVERY STEP of this engagement, and she has said all along that Xander wasn't ready for this and that all of his behavior proved he wasn't ready for it, but he's the one who's said that he is ready for it and he does want it and how could she possibly doubt him like that...oh wait no he's not ready oh my god who could have POSSIBLY foreseen this? They weren't in a scenario where Anya was pushing for a wedding and Xander felt that if he didn't propose he would lose her. Anya was perfectly content with their relationship in season five and didn't ask for anything more from him. So this is all -- every last bit of the pain and heartbreak -- coming solely from him messing up what they had.
JBK405
2025-04-20 14:45:28 +0000 UTCI totally disagree with your view on Spike and Anya hookup. First , Buffy told Spike to move on . Second, Xander broke up with Anya in a very brutal away by leaving her at the altar. Both Spike and Anya were free adults who had no idea their intimacy was being violated. You sort of keeping bringing their demonic condition to explain certain behaviours. I challenge you to point one thing they did that could not be done by a lot of people on the same situation (normal people would take revenge in more effective ways than Anya tough). As for Xander to me he comes once again as an imature and cowardly little boy, attacking someone who could not defend himself. As for Spike hurting Buffy, it was not pretty, but it was very human.
JOSE HOSANA CARVALHO DA FONSECA
2025-04-20 14:32:42 +0000 UTCWell, we’re getting close to the end of another season I think everything‘s gonna be just fine from here on out no more drama, smooth sailing do you believe me 😂
Sam Alexander
2025-04-20 14:00:26 +0000 UTCWATCH OPENING CREDITS CAREFULLY NEXT EPISODE. Willow and Tara are together again yay! I personally think they are the best couple in the buffyverse, and I am a fan of all. Willow messed up but she's shown she's commited to put things right. Just look back at that musical episode when Tara sang "I'm Under Your Spell" and you can see the intensity of love and devotion they have for eachother.
Morgan Williams
2025-04-20 12:20:14 +0000 UTCI don't think Spike wanted to hurt Buffy. First of all, because he thinks he couldn't. As Angelus said in season 2, to defeat this Slayer, you have to be in love with her, get under her skin, become someone special to her. The problem, however, is that Spike doesn't see himself as someone special in Buffy's life. As he said in the episode Into The Woods in a conversation with Riley, he doesn't have a chance, although it's worth trying. And this is what he believed before and still believes - there is no love from Buffy. That's why he really values what they already had. Because he clearly knows that he will never get more, will never become someone special to Buffy like Angel. He even agrees to be in Riley's place. And he brought his date not because he wanted to hurt Buffy, but rather to convince her that he is fine, that he can cope without her. Why should Buffy care how Spike is doing? He's a souless thing, she says. In this episode, Spike reveals the truth because it's long overdue. He's tired of hearing Xander crucify Anya as if she's the cause of all their problems. Buffy was supposed to stop Xander, he's her friend. Instead, she doesn't. Like she said before, Xander is her friend, and Anya is... well... Xander's girlfriend. That's all. I think it says that Buffy doesn't consider Anya part of their group, part of Scooby. And it raises an interesting question about Tara's status. Sure, Buffy will protect Anya and Tara if they're in danger, but will she protect them from the judgment of her closest friends, Xander and Willow? My answer is no.
ThePowerDrome
2025-04-20 07:30:01 +0000 UTCBefore Xander showed up, Buffy said I wish... then was cut off by his appearance, add the fact that she was gonna only wish good not vengence is pretty funny.
Morgan Williams
2025-04-20 06:42:04 +0000 UTCNEXT EPISODE PAY ATTENTION TO THE OPENING CREDITS.
Morgan Williams
2025-04-20 06:24:49 +0000 UTCI don't blame Spike for how he responded in that scene at the end, or for sleeping with Anya. Xander was totally out of line for judging Anya and Buffy. Xander loves Anya, who has killed and maimed people for a thousand years, but decides he can shit on Spike for being evil. I actually love Xander, but I have to call him out on his flaws. He's a complete hypocrite here. Spike has done plenty of wrong in his relationship with Buffy, but Buffy has treated him like garbage a lot of the time too. So when he's there taking a beating from Xander and getting called a 'disgusting thing,' the same thing Buffy called him (which actually did hurt him, as he revealed when he was drunk with Anya), Spike had the audacity to stand up for himself a little. I think I'd do the same in his situation. As for the Anya soul thing, I do think vengeance demons have souls. She didn't suffer the wave of crushing guilt after becoming human in season 3, so it doesn't seem she had a soul returned the way Angel did. I believe she's had a soul the entire time, although I do think you could be right about her having to deal with evil impulses when she has the demon in her.
Maia Brodsky
2025-04-20 06:04:07 +0000 UTCSome great points. But you mean 'Gone,' not 'Smashed.'
Maia Brodsky
2025-04-20 04:47:30 +0000 UTCIn my opinion, this is one of the best episodes of season 6 and the show in general. Instead, it is often underestimated, and in my opinion, it is because of the storm that will happen sometime later. This is a unique episode in a way. There is literally no threat to the characters, no monster of the week, no clashes with the Trio. And since everything is focused on the plot, this was supposed to be a turning point episode, and it is. Among other things, the episode contains an important thesis - do not give others advice that you cannot follow yourself. If you are a supporter of the theory that Buffy loves Spike, but cannot be with him for a complex of reasons, then this is, of course, confirmation of this theory. If, on the contrary, you believe that there is no love there, then there is also an important episode for you Beauty and The Beast in Buffy and I Fall To Pieces in Angel, which play on this very theme - jealousy can exist without love. It could also be a sense of ownership. Buffy clearly considers Spike a part of her property, as she has built it up over the course of the season. Buffy wanted to get close because she felt something in his presence and it was a lifeline for her. If you feel nothing at all except him, then you should go to him and get close to him because it is your salvation, a chance to get out of your depression. She went to him as soon as she was given the freedom to move, she told him and him alone her biggest secret, she gave him her body so he had a reason to stay, she initiated their kisses. It is not something you can easily give up, no matter what you say or how seriously you take it. Speaking of words. Feelings don't arise because you are ready for them and they don't disappear when that is the last thing you need right now. Even if Buffy says it's over -- it's not. It ends when you no longer feel it. Love, a sense of ownership, it doesn't matter. Also, I almost forgot -- this is the episode where we literally see Spike's character growth. He doesn't want to put a love spell on Buffy. It's a definite growth -- when he was in about the same state after breaking up with Drusilla, he wanted to put a love spell on her and even kidnapped Willow to do it. Another growth of his is that he kicked his love out of his apartment. Up until now, he couldn't find the courage to do it, not with Drusilla. In a way, he had done it before -- in the episode Smashed . But there was a reason -- Buffy wasn't "normal" Buffy, she was invisible, and therefore uncommitted.
ThePowerDrome
2025-04-20 04:30:47 +0000 UTCI dont think Anya gotten a sould back when she turned human, otherwise she would have felt a lot more regret for what she did in her demon days. She has always felt zero to no regret. So I think she made those choices with a soul. Also Buffy didn’t say “no” or “yes” when Tara asked her if she was in love with Spike, so I think it was left up to the audience’s own opinions on if she was in love with him (or whatever version of “love” that might be). But the fact that she didn’t say no is pretty telling that at the least she was very confused about if she did feel for him that way. And both Dawn and Willow noticed Buffy's face when she was looking at the video of Anya and Spike, so I think they both deduced at that moment Buffy had some sort of feelings about it.
MG
2025-04-20 04:27:28 +0000 UTCYou should probably watch the last four episodes in one sitting
Kevin Charley
2025-04-20 04:00:43 +0000 UTC'Entropy' is defined as what Tara says at the end, the tendency of things to fall apart, in this case, as she also says, to fall apart so hard. Trust this show to set things up so that when what you fear most happens it hits with maximum effect, viz the truth coming out about Buffy and Spike also must shatter Xander and Anya. At this point, I didn't think that Buffy was in love with Spike, I hadn't at any point through all this, believing she was, as she told him, using him to get through everything she was going through. But I also believed that he, in his twisted soulless way, was genuinely in love with her.
DanielOrme
2025-04-20 03:29:59 +0000 UTCAt this point in the show when I was first watching it, I don't think that Buffy loved Spike. I also thought that based off how Spike was acting previously this season, I don't think that he thought Buffy loved him, rather he played on Buffy's disconnection from life and her friends to make a physical relationship happen between them, even though she hated herself for it. Which is why I don't think much of Spike's line this episode that he has never hurt Buffy. Personally, it seems that Spike has pivoted his explanation of why he and Buffy should be together because he has recognized that Buffy's feelings toward life has changed. When she was disconnected from the world, he would say things like, she belongs with him in the dark. Now that she is trying to connect with her sister and friends more; he is saying they were together because of love.
James Smith
2025-04-20 02:16:41 +0000 UTCWell, you've made it to this episode.
Douglas Robertson
2025-04-20 02:08:21 +0000 UTCAt this point in the show, definitely didn't think Buffy was in love with Spike. Definitely had feelings for him, but just for being a demon with no soul she never could love him.
Steveo
2025-04-20 01:40:42 +0000 UTC
