Interview with Paul Bloom (Unedited) *Video*
Added 2023-03-17 23:04:28 +0000 UTCWe finally cornered the psychologist Paul Bloom.
Unedited We cover a bunch of stuff including his new book and podcast, his old MOOC, guru psychology, why people like pain, how come he has never been cancelled and random methodological questions.
So just a standard DtG interview.
Enjoy!
Comments
Finally a Canadian eh, besides that tard Peterson
Julie
2023-12-31 14:43:11 +0000 UTCI may have misunderstood what is meant by cognitive empathy, but isn't it really just about understanding the person's position & motivation? This doesn't seem necessary for the Ukrainians (to me anyway), because what *they* are doing - defending themselves - is easy to understand. Somewhat related, living in the west I don't find it very difficult to understand the positions of people around me with whom I disagree, but I have lived in places where the western liberal mindset is baffling to them, and it was really difficult, if not impossible, for me to put myself in their shoes and have their way of thinking make any kind of sense to me.
Sue Sutton
2023-03-25 02:51:51 +0000 UTCMost enjoyable, would be happy to hear more conversations with him & of course Helen Lewis.
Sue Sutton
2023-03-25 02:39:27 +0000 UTCCognitive empathy is understanding another person's mindset, also called theory of mind, mentalizing, or in some cases "mind reading." The alternative model is affective empathy, also called sympathy. Affective empathy is usually non-reflective (like being sad when witnessing someone in pain), whereas cognitive empathy is more deliberate. The greater the difference between you and someone else (familiarity, similarity, proximity), the more difficult it is to practice cognitive empathy toward them. That's the main reason why empathizing with the enemy is important-- in our minds, cognitive empathy is tied to affective empathy (not unfairly, I would note), so we bristle at the idea of even trying to understand the thinking of someone we find reprehensible. And yet it's critical to do so, in order to prevent future such reprehensible acts. But I quite agree with your comment about empathizing with the enemy to the exclusion of the victim, and I noted that in my comment on the post for the audio version of this interview above.
Gretchen Koch
2023-03-22 15:45:55 +0000 UTCI think I'm struggling to understand the concept of cognitive empathy and why it is being talked about like it's A Serious Thinky Thing. Is it just trying to understand the world view of people who don't make sense or that we dislike? If you could do me a favour and ask Robert Wright about the time he has spent showing 'cognitive empathy' to Ukrainians - learning Ukrainian history going back all the way to the Kyivan Rus, reading the accounts of the Holodomor (Soviet hunger genocide), watching video of the Maidan revolution, perhaps reading some English translations of Taras Shevchenko or Lesya Ukrainka. Perhaps making friends with some people who are in Ukraine right now or have fled. Has he done that? Why is it more important to show cognitive empathy to 'the enemy', rather than (in this scenario) the victims? I think it has the effect of making Putin's perspective 'more real' than the Ukrainian one [edit: or ones, because Ukrainians are obviously not a hivemind, even if they overwhelmingly want military victory over Russia] simply because more attention is being paid to it.
Artemis Green
2023-03-19 12:13:50 +0000 UTCAsk and ye shall receive!
Christopher Kavanagh
2023-03-19 06:29:19 +0000 UTCA genuinely enjoyably and enlightening conversation, thank you. I felt you could have explored any number of psychological topics further, and it wouldn't have gotten old. Nothing wrong with long form conversations, as long as the content is interesting!
Jason Etheridge
2023-03-19 03:39:15 +0000 UTCSure, I don't know if I meant to say that that's Wright's view. I agree with Wright's call for cognitive empathy and considering different perspectives. I think though that he might overly focus on the perspective that would entail US restraint (Putin's), because it fits with his prior views on US foreign policy. People can also differ in their application of cognitive empathy, right? My own opinion is that Putin is revanchist and has sought to restore Russia to a power akin to the Soviet Union. Wright though, if I recall correctly, more thinks Putin felt threatened by the West and is responding to the perception of threat. So I wonder if Wright sees a failure of cognitive empathy where there is actually cognitive empathy that reached a different conclusion.
Daniel
2023-03-18 21:51:22 +0000 UTCI think that Bob Wright has an anti-interventionist bias as well. I subscribe to his news-letter and I always get the feeling he is willing to throw Ukraine under the T72 bearing down on them all so we can get on with solving the really big problems facing humanity which I find absurd. Cognitive empathy to what end? Tip toe around horrible people to prevent them from doing terrible things ignoring the wishes of others?
Tim Tripp
2023-03-18 21:02:37 +0000 UTCI think you are mischaracterizing Wright’s argument when you say he wants us to ‘base foreign policy mainly on [Putin’s] thinking.’ Rather, he says, we should consider a multitude of perspectives before we act. The US is not responsible for the invasion, but we are responsible for our actions.
Jesse Rimler
2023-03-18 20:26:06 +0000 UTCI do not understand this comment, sorry!
Jesse Rimler
2023-03-18 19:55:22 +0000 UTCChomsky does critique US foreign policy. He does not reflexively defend the actions of other countries. That’s what separates the two. Your charge, and Chris’s, is always leveled at Chomsky — here’s neocon David Frum trotting it out in 1988. https://youtu.be/Y2HDCmhrk4s
Jesse Rimler
2023-03-18 19:54:20 +0000 UTCYes but he has an excuse, so no? But yes.
Ben Childs
2023-03-18 17:15:23 +0000 UTCAgree- Bloom not really wanting to get the point that Wright starts with a world view / conclusion then uses directed ‘cognitive empathy’ to intellectually justify. It’s also ludicrous in 1) no counter factually ( baltics could now be Moldovas or Belarus 2) Thinking you can genuinely, as ‘normal distribution’ Western individual, confidently put yourself in mind of a Gadaffi, Assad, Xi etc and base the outcomes of countries like Ukraine on your predictions. Maybe Chris is right , the answer is to recruit psychopaths, gang leaders and narcissists to do the job… what could go wrong.
Brainbiter
2023-03-18 16:25:54 +0000 UTCDon't you think though that Chomsky is reflexively anti-US in the same way as Grayzone? I've never heard him say anything positive about the US. It's like whatever the US does, it must be wrong somehow...
Daniel
2023-03-18 16:17:48 +0000 UTCFelt like Bloom might never have gotten your point about cognitive empathy. The problem is if you focus on empathizing cognitively with Putin, and base foreign policy mainly on his thinking, you neglect the interests of lots of other people. It may be true that with more cognitive empathy Putin could've been better managed, but to me it does not necessarily follow that the West should have had a less confrontational approach to Ukraine. I think Wright comes into things with an anti-interventionist bias and presumes cognitive empathy should lead us to that conclusion.
Daniel
2023-03-18 16:08:07 +0000 UTCImagine an academy…
Christopher Kavanagh
2023-03-18 12:55:12 +0000 UTC17 minutes in and they're talking about the power of long-form podcasts. It's over isn't it :/
widget
2023-03-18 12:49:54 +0000 UTCTook a while, but all good things…
elcid
2023-03-18 08:11:40 +0000 UTCTo stick up for Chomsky, from what I’ve read, he makes it clear that the reason he focuses his critique on the US is because he is a US citizen. He rightly notes that US foreign policy is the only one he could hope to influence. This does not mean he turns a blind eye to the crimes of other countries. He and Robert Wright both denounce Putin’s actions, for example — they just also take the time to consider whether the US’s actions before and during the war are wise. This is a far cry from the dopey, knee-jerk anti-establishment left such as the Gray Zone. That these two sides sometimes mingle is a drag, but it’s kind of a small world. Critiquing US foreign policy at all is still extremely rare in the states.
Jesse Rimler
2023-03-18 03:12:01 +0000 UTC👆
Eric Blyler
2023-03-18 02:51:01 +0000 UTCAudio pretty please? Don’t kill the radio star…
Zera Holladay
2023-03-18 02:23:27 +0000 UTCI KNEW those VBW and Bob Wright friendships would pay off some day!
Empty_Cognizance
2023-03-17 23:59:27 +0000 UTC“Why people like pain” makes me think of those crazy extreme haunted houses where people are basically just abused and tortured for a while. There are many who’ve become addicted and go repeatedly. It’s like all the cultic abuse, none of the bullshit and you don’t have to identify as bdsm.
Erin Dougherty
2023-03-17 23:14:20 +0000 UTCNice! 🙌🏼
Kyle Wilson
2023-03-17 23:05:34 +0000 UTC
