After the collapse of the tower, we find ourselves in the desert. This episode explores the nature of this borderland experience. Specifically, we take a close look at the nature of "the good" and what it takes to cultivate world esteem. The goal of this discussion is to lay the groundwork for a theory of how we come to perceive something as good. What does it mean to live a good life? What is required for us to see the beauty in the world again? We touch on the symbolism of the desert, the difference between self and world esteem, the role of anticipation and familiarity in our emotional experience, and how to change our values. We end by revisiting the "world puzzle" analogy from episode 6. My hope is that this episode will fundamentally alter how you think of "where" the good comes from—and what is required to experience more of it. This will also serve as the backbone for a more detailed look at the nature of the good, the garden, and Magic reality in coming episodes.
Intro (0:00)
Part 1: In the Desert (15:19)
Part 2: The Good (50:50)
Part 3: The World and its Borderlands (1:19:30)
PS: Thank you all so much for your patience with this episode. I encountered every hiccup imaginable while working on this (including the LA fires and about a million technical difficulties, some of which can be heard in variations in recording quality)—it is my goal to get Part 2 out ASAP! As always, I am deeply grateful for your support. :)
A guided "meditation" and shadow work training. Disclaimer (please read):
The first part of this episode is a framework for understanding what "shadow work" is in the context of the collapse of the tower and the broader K/A theory. The second half (roughly) is a guided meditation & a walkthrough of the technique itself. The goal of this episode is to lead you through the steps of this rapid-change framework, while also giving you the tools to walk yourself through this experience on your own. This meditation has been created mainly for those of you who are up to date with the K/A series, but may be helpful to anyone looking to break out of old patternings.
While the first part of this episode aims to be very explicit about what this work is, and is not, for, as well as what psychological mechanisms we are aiming to target... I feel it's important to summarize some of the main points here.
You should not use this technique as a substitute for clinical intervention in a mental health crisis. This technique is NOT "trauma-informed" and should not be used to heal traumatic or abusive experiences—this is a present-focused offering, and may be unsettling if you've never had previous shadow work experience, or attempt to apply it to "open wounds." Engagement with this practice is at the listener's discretion, and I encourage anyone curious about this work to ask themselves for consent before participating. The following technique can (although, not necessarily) bring up sensations of a sexual or erotic nature, and I encourage prospective listeners to check in with themselves about whether that is somewhere they are prepared to go. Most importantly—the main theme of this meditation is integrating the pleasure we may be getting out of an unideal or even painful situation. For a more thoughtful analysis of the ethics of this perspective, I encourage anyone listening to this to first revisit the final portion of Collapse of the Tower Part 4. This episode is not presented as the "ultimate way to do shadow work" and I do not mean to suggest that this particular technique is the only way out of depression. It is merely my best attempt at teaching something that has been immensely helpful to me, and that aligns with the theory we've been covering so far. The meditation is broken up into two parts, which can be completed together or separately (and I do encourage you to attempt them separately unless you're comfortable with long periods of intense focus). The first part is roughly 43 minutes long, while the second part is 37 minutes long.
The actual meditation begins at 1:06:30
The second part begins at 1:49:30
If you have any questions, please message me or drop them in the comments—this technique is experimental, and I am hoping to learn how to present it in the best and most helpful way possible. Your feedback is highly appreciated. More than anything, I hope that you'll approach this episode as a training and modify what I've presented here for your own particular circumstance... keeping or expanding upon what works and discarding anything that feels superfluous. Thank you so much for your support, and happy New Year!
A review and synthesis of this model of depression. How our understanding of reality impacts our direct experience. A final look back at the cartography of Hell. The two steps necessary for collapsing The Tower. The real nature of shadow work.
Moving beyond Jungian theory, this episode is about encountering The Other in contemporary society and the internet age. We discuss Sighswoon's concept of "tethers," Netflix's 'Baby Reindeer,' and philosopher Byung-Chul Han's The Expulsion of the Other. As we seek to explore how The Other impacts us beyond basic projection, we take a deep dive into the nature of "the gaze," and the variety of weird dynamics it's able to produce—we discuss stalking, limerence, seduction, obsession, surveillance, gossip, rivalries, imaginary conversations, and the parasocial, as well as why these increasingly weird attachments are becoming more common today. We end with a discussion of the dwindling role of The Other in today's world, the real nature of the "inner audience," and the deeply concerning state of the soul in a world without difference.
Or, Encountering The Other Beyond Our Projections.
This episode begins our multi-part exploration of the fantastic (and sometimes, terrifying) world beyond the horizons of the self. We take up the problem of The Other—an often nebulous concept that can refer to a range of experiences, from our romantic partners, to extraterrestrial life, to the imaginary versions of people we converse with in our heads. Here, we are specifically interested in the Jungian perspective on The Other... a primary goal of this discussion is to define, and redefine, classic Jungian concepts (the persona, ego, shadow, and anima/animus) so that we can better determine how they are impacting our relationships as well as our direct experience of the world. We also tackle how to differentiate a shadow projection from an anima/animus projection, what it actually means to encounter The Other, and what creates attraction. Finally, I introduce a model of "sympathies" to help us all get a more intuitive grasp on how we relate to the others around us.
In Part 2 (which will be up very soon!), we'll discuss how The Other impacts us. Both of these episodes are meant to lay the groundwork for a more nuanced discussion of the Jungian soul, as well as the second part of this series, which will tackle "The Object."
A note for those of you who have been (very patiently!) waiting for new content... my goal is to have the second half of this discussion up by the end of the month. These two scripts combined clock in at just over 22k words, and I sincerely hope both the quantity and quality of what I'm releasing this month will make up for the relative silence on my end. This summer has been a perfect storm of: A. Comparatively difficult content that requires a tremendous amount of attention and focus to be able to articulate properly, and B. Living situations that have created a lack of access to absolute quiet (which is, of course, necessary in order to record, research, and create). Thankfully, the theory for the next few episodes is finally hammered out, AND I once again have access to a quiet office space, so the pacing of content should pick up a great deal in the coming months. A thousand thanks for your continued patience and support!!
Friend, fellow meme admin, and shaman of the metapattern Arcane Wit joins us as our first-ever guest. Guided by frequently asked questions from both of our audiences (and our own pattern-finding obsessions) we attempt to chart a course through the increasingly alienated landscape of contemporary society (and reality). Drawing on insights from neuroscience, literature, historical figures, philosophy, and personal theories, Arcane Wit helps bring new life to many of the ideas discussed in previous episodes—notably, we cover the outsider's complex, the hemispheres of the brain, hyper-competition and Fred Previc's The Dopaminergic Mind in Human Evolution and History.
Check out Arcane Wit on Instagram: @Arcane_Wit
Timestamps & Topics:
03:45 What is the metapattern?
07:11 Creative illness, derealization, & reality
22:21 Escaping the left hemisphere & developing "arcane knowledge"
33:45 The outsider’s complex (and contribution)
47:50 Thresholds, paradoxes, & ways of being in reality
1:01:16 Fred Previc & the role of dopamine
01:08:48 Napoleon & futuremaxxing
01:16:33 Blood Meridian, "Force Perspectivism," & war
01:26:15 "Antisocial cascade" and isolation
Q&A
01:30:14 Is our generation doomed?
1:38:28 How to start changing your relationship to reality?
1:47:11 “Time is like a flat circle” How to escape cycles?
A final look at the role of reality in depression, and a cartography of the underworld. This episode, we revisit Federico Campagna's concept of the "Tecnic" system of reality, with the goal of making his ideas easier to "picture" or imagine. We clarify the idea of Absolute Language, the difference between presence and existence, and what happens to us when we come to worship truth as our god. Finally, we reveal what The Tower has kept hidden from us all along. In myth, it is only by going to the very bottom of Hell that we can find our way out... the following discussion aims to provide an intellectual sense of direction, an intuitive inner compass, and an experiential understanding of how to navigate this "Hell," or, reality. In other words, we are attempting to tackle the ineffable here from both the angles of the mind and the soul—this discussion is structured to create something like a "union of the opposites." After some pretty heavy theory in the first part of the episode, we set aside philosophy completely and end with an experiential "exercise" meant to help you find and explore the ineffable.
Like our first two parts, this episode is broken up into sections:
Intro: 0:00
Part 1: Katabasis (17:11)
Part 2: The River Lethe (1:15:30)
Intermission: Enantiodromia (1:35:43)
The Collapse of the Tower Part 4 (Anabasis) will seek to pick up from where we left off with this experiential exercise... hence the "intermission" section.
A note:
This episode was originally intended to be the final part of The Collapse of the Tower stage. Unfortunately, the content was simply too dense... obviously, it's (almost) a fool's errand to write something coherent about a concept literally called "the ineffable" (in which case, I guess that makes me a "mystical fool")! I also realized I didn't want to charge too quickly into a discussion of the ineffable without guiding you through an actual experience of it. With all of that said, I'd greatly appreciate feedback on this episode so that I can make sure to tie up any loose strings in Part 4 (Anabasis). Once the series is complete, my goal is to create a condensed version of this stage, or at the very least, to do a redux version (like we did with The Dream episodes). As will probably become apparent, this is wildly difficult content to make generally accessible without losing some of the depth. Thank you, a million times over, for your patience and continued support.
Just wanted to give a brief update on the status of our next episode (Collapse of the Tower Pt 3) and close friends.
As you may or may not have noticed, Part 3 did not come out last month as I had originally intended. It's my mission to get at least one episode out per month, and in the past, I've often been able to do two. At the very least, I strive to maintain a running average of at least one per month, but April has been... well, a bit difficult to say the least. Between figuring out taxes for an online business, travel, a pretty horrible flu, some hiccups in my housing situation, and the nature of this next episode, I've been running a bit behind. On top of all of that, I've managed to lose my voice, which is of course not ideal when attempting to put out a podcast. Perhaps most importantly—Part 3 aims to tackle the ineffable in a much more experiential way than how we've discussed it in the past. This final part should be sort of the crown jewel of this series. I'm feeling some kind of soul-level imperative to bring the absolute best of my work to the table, which has unfortunately led to writing something like 40k words just toward the various DRAFTS of this final part (not to worry—the final product will be a reasonable length).
That's all to say—I thank you for your patience, and I believe (or at least hope) that the quality of this next episode will be worth the wait. On top of that, I'm in the editing process of a very fun interview with fellow meme page admin Arcanewit, which I think you guys will really enjoy, along with the rough draft for another Nekyias episode.
As for Close Friends!
A piece of advice my mother shared with me a long time ago went something like this: there is great power, and great opportunity, in admitting when you have failed... and, I think I have definitely failed when it comes to the CF part of this Patreon. Between updates made both to the Patreon platform and an ever-shifting Instagram algorithm, it has become extremely time-consuming to maintain the Close Friends list.
I'm currently working on an alternative offering, but in the meantime, I'm going to remove the Close Friends benefit until I can find a system that actually works. With that said, I'm going to give everyone until May 20 to send in their handles. I have that entire day scheduled to add everyone who has yet to be added (and to remove those who have canceled their subscription). After that, I won't be adding anyone else for the foreseeable future. I've often felt hesitant to post to CF precisely because I haven't been able to keep it updated, so hopefully this will allow me to get used to actually posting content there. If you're still looking to be added, please send me a message on IG with your email and the handle you'd like added, and, CRITICALLY, send your handle in a separate message. The separate message will allow me to copy/paste your handle directly into the "add friend" search bar, which is really important because for some reason when I try to type handles out by hand Instagram doesn't bring up the account. For those of you who have already sent me your handles—I'll send another reminder/CF check to make sure I've added you on May 20. I'm also going to be using that day for additional admin and to answer any unread messages.
TL;DR: Working very hard on part 3, which will be coming soon. Close Friends will be completely updated by May 20, but will no longer be a benefit for new subscribers until I can figure out how to make it work!
EDIT: If you're having trouble reaching me on IG due to the unaccepted message request thing (which has been another problem I've been running into) you are welcome to comment below or DM here. In the meantime, I'm going to attempt to change that setting/accept the messages sent so far.
The core of this theory. Following our close examination of possibility and significance in Part 1, this odyssey of an episode seeks to tackle what, precisely, could cause a breakdown in significance and the flattened landscape of the world of depression. This is followed by a close examination, finally, of The Tower, how it controls our lives, and what it might look like for it to collapse. We explore this question from a variety of disciplines, ranging from psychology to philosophy, neuroscience to metaphysics, self-development doctrines to phenomenology. We cover the difference between grief and depression, radical elsewheres, value hierarchies, self-esteem, learned helplessness, the core fundamentals of all self-help approaches, beliefs, the infinite vs the eternal, dopamine, and how left hemisphere dominance in the brain has impacted our relationship with reality. This episode ties together the ideas of thinkers like phenomenologist Matthew Ratcliffe, the researchers behind Hanging On & Letting Go, Jordan Peterson (who we'll be critiquing), Federico Campagna, Iain McGhilchrist, Fred Previc, and, of course, Carl Jung. We end on the possibility of building a garden instead of a tower... world-esteem in place of self-esteem.
Because this is the longest episode of this series, I've elected to split it into parts, with two breaks:
Part 1: The World of Depression, Revisited (2:38)
Part 2: The Tower (54:00)
Part 3: The Architects of The Tower (1:36:00)
Finally, thank you for your patience. This episode took an exceedingly long time and a lot of work to craft—I hope that it is helpful, and makes up for the relative radio silence during March. There was simply no cutting corners with this material, and, given the length, I wanted to make sure it was as clear as possible. I'm so excited to hear what you all think of it, and want to make sure I can answer your remaining questions in part 3. Don't let the length scare you—if you utilize the breaks it should be easier to follow than Part 1. Also, with this very time-intensive episode out of the way, I can finally turn my attention back toward the Nekyias series and admin tasks—please let me know what topics you'd like to see covered in the future!
The final cycle of this series, the final ordeal of depression. With this episode, we're embarking on a journey that should end with the collapse of this mysterious tower—first, though, we have to set some things straight. Before we can even approach the tower, we need a more nuanced definition of depression. With the help of phenomenologist Matthew Ratcliffe, we closely examine what depression literally "is," possibility, and significance. We also look at anticipation, grief, and memory. With this episode, we're beginning to circle the very core of my theory. The end is in sight.
Text from the original guide:
"The Bargainer’s Dream allows the dreamer to reestablish connection with the Self. For a time things may even appear to “get better.” Full healing cannot be completed, however, until the dreamer allows for the collapse of the tower. This entails destruction of previous value hierarchies and attachments that do not serve the inner self. Symbolically this stage is a death, and may even dredge up fears of mortality from the frightened ego."
Moving forward with our rough definition of the "soul" from part 1, this episode seeks to answer the question, "How do we reclaim our souls?" We closely examine the last chapter of Jung's final (and possibly most challenging) major work, Mysterium Coniunctionis. We explore the 8~ stages of psychic development, the difference between differentiation and individuation, the real purpose of Jung's work, and the alchemical procedure required to bring the soul back into the body. While the first portion of this discussion is dedicated to Jung's solution to a "loss of soul," the second portion attempts to move beyond his explicit theory. In conversation with phenomenologist Matthew Ratcliffe, I make my argument for the role of the body in both soul loss and depression. We end with a meditation on the power of memory, and hopefully, a clearer picture of how the ideas presented in this series work together.
A note: This is a long episode! I've done my best to keep this one easy to follow... however, if you're looking for a place to take a break, we conclude our overview of alchemy at the 1 hour mark.
Works mentioned this episode:
The Mysterium Lectures by Edward Edinger
Experiences of Depression: a Study in Phenomenology by Matthew Ratcliffe
Mysterium Coniunctionis by C. G. Jung
Original text from the guide:
"With the foundation of the physical care of the body, the dreamer is now able to move more fully into her inner world. This stage is characterized by a deep inner searching—she may find herself revisiting old childhood interests that were rejected from the psyche by the value system of the old Dream. This may be a time of shadow work and addressing or recognizing patterns that were previously invisible. This stage must be approached from a place of deep inner grounding and self-love—the dreamer no longer contents herself with positive affirmations, but commits herself to self-acceptance even when she unearths vile or unsavory facts about herself. Relationships that no longer serve may be purged at this stage but must be done so with great respect. The dreamer may require time alone, as she coaxes the abandoned, vulnerable, and hidden Self back toward the surface."
Or, How I (Regrettably) Started a Cult. In this conversational and story-focused episode, we explore fictionality-as-phenomenology, the “Love Has Won: Cult of the Mother God” HBO docuseries, Jordan Peterson, and of course, my experience accidentally creating an online mermaid cult between the ages of eleven and twelve. Although this story gets a bit dark, my hope is that it will serve as both some entertaining (and downright weird) personal/internet lore, as well as a meditation on the profound impact of fiction on how we construct and encounter the world around us.
A note: This episode makes brief mention to both self-harm and suicide. This is also a bit more freeform than other episodes—some listeners have commented that they like to sit down and take notes, but that really shouldn't be necessary with this one! My goal was to put something out as a palate cleanser between the fairly heady/deep recent episodes and our upcoming Part 2 of The Reclamation of the Soul.
This episode, we continue our close examination of Jung's thought as we explore the final challenge the depressed individual must face before approaching the Collapse of the Tower stage of this model. Here, we're interested in a working definition of Jung's "soul," what it means to lose one's soul, and why this idea can be so difficult to define... even for well-studied Jungians. We start with a brief note on phenomenology vs. metaphysics before exploring the work of Ernesto De Martino—specifically, his exceedingly rare English translation of the book The World of Magic (Le Monde Magique), as well as a section of The End of the World (La Fine Del Mondo). Then, we try to bridge de Martino's conception of soul loss with Jung's. We end with a discussion of the anima vs. the persona & the anima vs. the shadow, and finally, my read on the question of the soul. The goal of this episode is to prime us for Part 2, in which we'll cover Jung's final major work, Mysterium Coniunctionis (in conversation with phenomenologist Matthew Ratcliffe), as well as how, exactly, one might go about reclaiming the soul.
Or, How Does Being an Outsider Serve? The second of a two-part series on the Outsider Complex and archetype, this episode explores the connection between the outsider and the prophet archetypes. We begin with a discussion of how the prophet can act as both medicine and poison to someone struggling with a chronic sense of "otheredness," before tackling the prison of language, what it means to be symbolically nameless, and how the Greek concept of "mêtis" helps the outsider to envision other worlds. Utilizing the work of Peter Kingsley, Carl Jung, and Federico Campagna, we end with a meditation on positionality, how the outsider can embrace prophecy, and a call to "integrate your namelessness."
Works mentioned in this episode include:
Reality & Catafalque by Peter Kingsley
Technic and Magic & Prophetic Culture by Federico Campagna
The Red Book/Liber Novus by Carl Jung
A Note: I briefly mention the current tragedy in Gaza to illustrate a point about language. While the content of this episode remains squarely in the realms of psychology and metaphysics, I do believe the discussion of language and its effects on the political realm extend way beyond what we cover here. This episode was long (even by my standards) and would have been an inappropriate place to cover this, but for those of you interested in where the line of thought I introduced might lead, or how it plays into politics, linked below is an interview I found with Federico Campagna that may help to give a broader view of his position on the "pre-political" as a doorway into emancipation and the ability to imagine a new world, where existence as "sacred" fact takes precedence over the signifier-as-God prison/labyrinth in which we find ourselves currently stuck. While I don't agree with everything mentioned in the interview, it's the best resource I could find in an effort to connect some of the themes discussed here to what is going on more globally, as well as where Campagna himself is headed with his take on metaphysics. I find Campagna's work to be a deep, rich, and radically empathetic approach to political work, and find a great deal of hope in his writings when the world seems to have ground itself down into a gory standstill. If you, too, are feeling nauseated by the seemingly intractable nature of these problems, I encourage you to give it a listen, or otherwise (and perhaps better yet), to pick up a copy of Technic and Magic, and see what doors that might open for you. Link below:
Just a quick heads up for those of you living in the area (and who may not have seen my Instagram story)—we're doing a very casual happy hour/evening drinks meetup at Union Station this upcoming Sunday.
We're starting 5:30pm at Homebound Brew Haus. Not sure how long it'll last, but I'll try to keep my Instagram stories updated. Right now I'm looking to get a headcount of yes's and maybe's, please shoot me a message either here or on Patreon if you're likely to attend!
My hope is that this event will help connect people in the area to others with similar interests—honestly, finding community in large cities can be difficult, and a number of you have asked for something like this! I'm also looking to do more in person events (book clubs? symposiums? good old fashioned parties?), and am trying to get a sense of who all would be up for that!
Again, please let me know if you're thinking of attending, or if you'd be interested in future meet ups.
Or, Why Do I Always Feel So Alone? The first of a two-part series on the Outsider Complex (and archetype), this episode explores the landscape of loneliness—why someone might find themselves repeating self-isolating patterns, and what to do about it. We tackle what "connection" actually involves, the importance of identity to the outsider, how we push "people" away, and what to do when no one is listening. This episode might be challenging for some—we're dancing in the realms of shadow work with this one (especially near the very end). Additional influences for this episode include phenomenologist Matthew Ratcliffe and The Spiritual Dimensions of the Enneagram by Sandra Maitri. My hope is to pave the ground here for part two, which will cover the more archetypal dimensions of The Outsider, as well as his other face, The Prophet.
Our first real Q and A episode is finally here! Clocking in at 2.5 hours in length, I tried to cover as many questions as I could. Broader sections, question topics, and books mentioned are listed below, along with time stamps.
INTRO: 0:00 - 5:43
PART 1: On the Performance of Self: 5:43
Choosing the right metaphors when it comes to dating: 5:43
How to deal with the fear of having an audience: 19:56
PART 2: On Finding the Light in a Dying World: 31:38
Is there an endpoint to inner work, or are we just hiding out in the self-help section of Barnes and Noble while the world burns?: 31:38
Society-wide narcissism & whether we should be "black-pilled" about it: 48:40
The Covid Era as metaphor: 1:05:25
Finding meaning & motivation with long-term depression: 1:11:44
PART 3: On Symbolism & Dreams: 1:27:41
The Desert & The Void: 1:27:41
Hot take: What's the purpose of dreaming?: 1:42:46
The Hero's Journey, depression, & storytelling: 1:49:49
PART 4: On MBTI & Cognitive Functions: 1:53:57
Finding your dominant function: 1:53:58
What about the functions that don’t appear in your “stack” or type?: 2:01:42
How to develop the 3rd function: 2:06:50
What if I’m overusing a function that isn’t my dominant? 2:14:00
Thought experiment: what if we added another personality type to Jung's model?: 2:17:28
Books & Resources Mentioned This Episode:
Catafalque - Peter Kingsley
Prophetic Culture - Federico Campagna
The Culture of Narcissism - Christopher Lasch
Women Who Run with the Wolves - Clarissa Pinkola Estés
Blood Meridian - Cormac McCarthy
Personality test & research mentioned in the episode... the paper I referenced about the "bicycle formation" can be accessed after taking the test, which primarily tests you on the cognitive functions themselves. It's not the most rigorous assessment I've found, but still fun and interesting if you're exploring the world of typology: http://keys2cognition.com/explore.htm
Let's start with the main point of this post. We're doing a Q&A/AMA/advice episode this month! I've been wanting to do a formal Q&A episode for a while, and it feels appropriate somehow to align an episode like this with this Patreon's birthday, which is tomorrow. Questions can be about anything—I imagine we'll spend a good portion of this episode on MBTI given that there are already a number of questions about our last two (very dense) episodes. With that said, questions can (and hopefully will!) be about anything in the Katabasis/Anabasis series, the Nekyias series, mental health, Jung, metaphysics, memes, current culture, my personal experiences... anything, really! I'd also love to address any personal life problems/advice questions you'd feel comfortable sending my way—the goal of this episode would be to ground some of our more ~out there~ discussions in lived experience. Please submit your questions in the comments below, or, if you'd like to keep it totally anonymous, message me here on Patreon. If you've already asked me a question either on here or on Instagram that you'd still really like an answer to, please feel free to bump the message again. As the title suggests, I'd really love to get this episode out by the end of the month, so please don't wait to ask!
Moving on to more personal matters.
This will, unfortunately, be the only episode for September. I had the immense fortune of being able to accompany my parents to Alaska for their 40th wedding anniversary earlier this month. My plan was to hit the ground running on either the script for our next episode or a Nekyias pod when I returned, but we received news on the final day of our trip that my uncle had passed away after a very long battle with ALS. In addition, I'm currently on recovery for a small medical procedure, and two days ago my car blew up on the side of the freeway in a dazzling display of fire with literally no warning or obvious cause. After getting really honest with myself, I realized that there was simply no way for me to do the kind of prep work/research I usually do for each episode and that a Q&A was probably the only option given my current bandwidth. With that said, I sincerely hope you'll stay subscribed—October will be a big month content-wise. Additionally, I could really use the extra support at the moment, as I unfortunately only had liability insurance on the car, am hoping to be able to afford to make it to my uncle's memorial, and have some medical bills I've yet to address. My hope was to put out some content this month that might push us over 300 patrons, which would bring my earnings from this project up to minimum-wage-job-level... while a Q&A episode is not likely to do that, it would mean the literal world to me if you shared this project with your friends. If just 20 of you got a single friend to sign up, we'd make that 300 patron goal! That feels really vulnerable and annoying to type, but I can't tell you how much that would mean to me! Thank you, thank you, thank you for the support you've already given to me and this project.
Happy (early) equinox, and send me those questions!
This episode, we conclude our exploration of MBTI, explore Jung's types as he actually saw them, and examine why opposite types may find themselves in eerily similar mental health dilemmas. I explain my interpretation of Jung's "Psychological Types" after working with it for more time than any human being probably ever should. We take a close look at Jungian concepts such as assimilation, dissimilation, empathy, and abstraction. We end with my interpretation of the four type dilemmas—hidden deep within Jung's typology, we find four distinct issues that arise from adopting one-sided philosophies of life. I call these the Funhouse Mirror Dilemma (extroverted feeling vs introverted thinking), the Authority Dilemma (extroverted thinking vs introverted feeling), the Otherworlds Dilemma (extroverted sensing vs introverted intuition), and the Gatsby Dilemma (extroverted intuition vs introverted sensing). My hope is that, by interpreting Jung's work in this novel way, I can provide a compass for the listener, allowing them to actually utilize Jung's typology for their own development and growth. This discussion is the product of an extensive dive into Jung's thought, and, although a dense and possibly challenging episode, is something I am so, so excited to finally be able to share with you all... you won't find this interpretation anywhere else, because it is my own. :).
Note: Due to the length and complexity, as well as the highly compacted nature of the information in this episode, I have decided to include an intermission at the 47:00 minute mark. This episode very easily could have been split into two, but the material is so highly intertwined that I feared doing a "Part 3" might have risked losing the immediacy of some of the information in the first part of this episode. I highly recommend the listener take their time, and make use of this intermission—the most important content is in the second half of the episode, and I wouldn't want anyone to get too burnt out before getting to the end!
Thank you for coming on this journey with me, and please comment whatever questions you have. I will likely be doing a Q&A episode soon!
This episode, we move away from our discussion of SSRIs and begin to lay the foundation for a close look at MBTI (that is, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator). Based on the theories in one of Jung's most famous books, Psychological Types, MBTI is a personality test and system most commonly known for sorting individuals into types like "ENTJ" or "ISFP." We discuss what this system is, how it works, and how personality typing came to completely overshadow the central message of Jung's work. We discuss cognitive functions, what Jung actually believed about personality, and why MBTI wound up being so useful in my own experience of depression. Utilizing a compass metaphor, we explore the lost medicine and insight lurking behind this scientifically contested yet wildly popular personality system.
Note: The next two episodes will be, in some ways, a continuation of the discussion we began in our most recent Nekyias episode (Are Ya Winning, Son?), and may be of interest to new patrons who are not yet up to date on the rest of the Katabasis series.
Although this episode isn't really concerned with traditional MBTI, taking the test can be fun, informative, and may help provide some foundation for this topic.
2. As promised in the episode, below is a conversion chart for the cognitive functions as they relate to the traditional MBTI type acronyms, as well as the corresponding "child playing" images to help differentiate which one is which. As noted in the episode, this typology, while based on Jung's theories, is rooted in contemporary discourse and a very specific interpretation of Jung's work (which, while helpful in many ways, is not perfectly aligned with what he actually said or believed). We're going to be delving much deeper, particularly in Part 2. For now, though, I felt compelled to include this chart for reference and research purposes. Jung's actual theories can be so opaque that I've found it easier to explain the modern interpretation first.
PS For my MBTI junkies out there, I am aware that this is horribly oversimplified and am just trying to make this system accessible to those who are unfamiliar.
Judging/Rational Types:
Te - Extroverted Thinking (Playing with Legos)
Ti - Introverted Thinking (Reading a book about space)
Fe - Extroverted Feeling (Including friends in a game)
Fi - Introverted Feeling (Playing dress up/creating her own rules)
Perceiving/Irrational Types:
Se - Extroverted Sensing (Playing a sport)
Si - Introverted Sensing (Engaging with familiar movies, board games, or collections)
Ne - Extroverted Intuition (Drawing new lines in a coloring book)
Ni - Introverted Intuition (Secret & rich fantasy world)
MBTI/Cognitive Function Stack Conversions:
Dominant Function — Auxilary Function — Third Function — "Shadow" Function
(Note: I've included the child-playing images just to make it easier to read/remember; these are vast oversimplifications purely for the sake of learning the system/reference. The first two of these are bolded/underlined to indicate that these functions are more easily used/dominant within the personality, while the last two are usually more difficult to access, repressed, or even totally unconscious.)
Judging/Rational Dominants:
ENTJ: Te—Ni—Se—Fi
(Legos—Fantasy World—Sports—Own Rules)
ESTJ: Te—Si—Ne—Fi
(Legos—Familiar Games—Outside the Lines—Own Rules)
INTP: Ti—Ne—Si—Fe
(Books—Outside the Lines—Familiar Games—Playing w/ Others)
ISTP: Ti—Se—Ni—Fe
(Books—Sports—Fantasy World—Playing w/ Others)
ENFJ: Fe—Ni—Se—Ti
(Playing w/ Others—Fantasy World—Sports—Books)
ESFJ: Fe—Si—Ne—Ti
(Playing w/ Others—Familiar Games—Outside the Lines—Books)
INFP: Fi—Ne—Si—Te
(Own Rules—Outside the Lines—Familiar Games—Legos)
ISFP: Fi—Se—Ni—Te
(Own Rules—Sports—Fantasy World—Legos)
Perceiving/Irrational Dominants:
ESTP: Se—Ti—Fe—Ni
(Sports—Books—Playing w/ Others—Fantasy World)
ESFP: Se—Fi—Te—Ni
(Sports—Own Rules—Legos—Fantasy World)
ISTJ: Si—Te—Fi—Ne
(Familiar Games—Legos—Own Rules—Outside the Lines)
ISFJ: Si—Fe—Ti—Ne
(Familiar Games—Playing w/ Others—Legos—Outside the Lines)
ENTP: Ne—Ti—Fe—Si
(Outside the Lines—Books—Playing w/ Others—Familiar Games)
ENFP: Ne—Fi—Te—Si
(Outside the Lines—Own Rules—Legos—Familiar Games)
In this episode, we explore the question, "Why am I not doing the things I say I want to/should do?" To answer this, we turn to Jung's conception of the libido (intentionality, desire & willpower) and what is necessary for us to have the energy we need for external success and transformation. We also discuss the difference between "I want," "I should," "I must," and "I will." I explore why it was so difficult to write a novel compared to my experience of working on this podcast. We also tackle introversion and extroversion, the two different types of failure, and the irrational. I'm very excited about this episode, and think it will be particularly helpful for anyone trying to work on a creative or otherwise self-directed project or goal.
Below you'll find a PDF for every script written for this podcast. It's over 100,000 words and 320 pages. I've included a table of contents so that you can jump to whichever episode you'd like.
I've tried to edit it as best I can, but, to be honest, there are many mistakes. As is probably obvious, this was all written to be spoken aloud, so I hope you'll excuse some of the phrasing or possible spelling/grammatical mistakes.
You're welcome to print all or part of it, I just ask that it not be shared with non-patrons... if someone is really that interested, I hope you'll encourage them to invest the $5 it takes to access it (and support me in the process).
Lastly... I know this is something pretty much out of my control, but if you're joining just to download the PDF and then cancel your subscription, I'd really appreciate it if you'd stick around for a bit longer (or make use of one of the many one-time-donation tiers)! This is the culmination of a year's worth of writing and work, and your support is the only thing that allows me to continue.
In this stage, we're finally covering the ubiquitous serotonin hypothesis—the once-widespread (and still very influential) understanding that depression arises from a dysregulation of serotonin in the brain. More specifically, we cover how the narrative created by this understanding of depression impacts an individual's conception of self, authority, and "illness." Our conversation winds between meditations on current research, the "labyrinth" as an analogy for an encounter with mystery, and a long-form story intended to illustrate how medical narratives might impact a patient's direct, lived experience. Finally, we end with a brief meditation on "inner authority," to be more fully fleshed out next episode. This episode is a bit longer than usual but may be one of the more accessible ones so far.
A quick disclaimer:
As is stated in the first part of this episode, I am not a medical professional. Moreover, the purpose of this episode is not, by any means, to increase stigma around psychiatric medication. While I hope the contents of this episode are helpful to an individual considering medication (particularly, SSRIs), I did not create this with the intention of it being used as medical advice. I highly encourage listeners to continue this conversation with a psychiatrist or licensed professional. If anything is to be taken from this episode, from a medical standpoint, I would say two things. First, if you are currently on an antidepressant, and are seeking to get off of it, please make sure that you do so with medical oversight. These medications should NEVER be quit cold turkey. Second, if you have the resources to do so, I do encourage looking for a psychiatrist who is willing to *have* a conversation about the relative merits and efficacy of SSRIs, and who actively pursues informed consent around the prescription of psychiatric medication. I am including these last two points not because it is my desire that someone should come away from this episode with the thought "I need to discontinue my medication." In all honesty, I simply failed to include them in the recording but felt that they were important final words to this discussion. As I mention in the episode, these medications can be life-saving for some people, and my sole goal is to empower you, as patient and fellow sufferer, to make your decisions with as much nuance and information as possible. I am here for you completely.
A final word:
It is my goal to get the transcripts from all previous episodes up by the end of the month. I wanted to get this episode up as quickly as possible, but am unfortunately still working on putting together a document of all the studies cited in this particular episode! My intention is to post this alongside the rest of the transcripts. In the meantime, if you'd like more information on any research cited here, please feel free to message me either on Patreon or Instagram. Thank you again for all your patience—this particular script was probably the most time-intensive to write so far. Work on the Nekyias series, as well as episode 10, will resume as soon as the transcripts are up.
A quick update on CF content. I've been a little less active, largely because Instagram seems to have changed the way I am able to search for people's usernames on the app, and I've felt a little bad about posting without having everyone signed up. I haven't been able to find some of you, unfortunately.
For that reason, I'd like to switch to another system for adding new people to Close Friends. Instead of messaging me here or commenting, please DM me directly on Instagram (@CarlJungMemes). Please send me your username (ideally in a single message so I can easily copy and paste it into the search function if I need to!) and the email address you used to sign up for Patreon so that I can verify.
I've been able to add all but two of you (I think!) and will be posting another test story today to make sure you're all in. If you don't see a green ring around my story on IG in the next 24 hours, please DM me. If you do see it, you're in and nothing is left for you to do!
I'm on the road for the next 20~ days or so, if you need to reach me it will be much easier to do so via IG!
As I mentioned in Part 1, these last two episodes of Katabasis/Anabasis have been an attempt to revise the original second episode of this series. I highly encourage new patrons to start with the revised episodes, and for older patrons to revisit the material—while most of the content is similar, the line of argument should be a lot easier to follow.
In this episode, we introduce the moth analogy and attempt to tackle the second mystery from part one—the idea that depression could be a place. This episode serves as a deeper exploration of the metaphysical foundation of this model of depression, and exactly what avenues the Dream view of reality allows us to access once we learn to fully inhabit it. We discuss Jung's concept of intuition, as well as senses of place and imagination.
The first episode of the Nekyias pod, exploring "special topics," mainly centering around important themes within my own research & popular questions on @CarlJungMemes. Specifically, in the first hour of this episode, I attempt to get to the bottom of & tease out common misconceptions about Shadow Work, particularly with regard to how it's talked about on social media (#shadowwork)—we discuss the difference between shadow and trauma, and why the work with the "inner child" should be compartmentalized away from true shadow work. In the second hour, we discuss what the shadow actually is, particularly from the perspective of Jung's own writing. We talk the Jungian definition of consciousness, and why this whole project needs to be experiential, not conceptual. I address a few ways of beginning this work, although the main purpose of this episode is to help you answer the questions "What is the shadow, and am I ready to confront it?"
For those of you used to my Katabasis/Anabasis series, this episode is going to be a little different—this is my first stab at an unscripted episode, aiming at a more conversational style that doesn't require 110% focus from the listener in order to follow along. I'd love feedback, as my goal is to start trying to get one of these episodes out a month alongside the Katabasis series. Future topics I am looking to cover include meaning-making, obsession, seduction, loneliness, the pursuit of being an "artist" or "creator," and magic.
Back to the beginning—I've been wanting to do this for a while, and I am so, so excited to finally be able to post it.
In this episode, we talk metaphysics—specifically, the dream vs materialist views of reality, and how the dream view opens up not only greater tools for tackling depression, but a deeper experience of life itself. I lead us through what it looks and feels like to be stuck within the materialist view, and how to "shift" your experience of reality. This material is highly influenced by the work of Federico Campagna, Peter Kingsley, and, of course, Carl Jung.
For non-patrons: If you're completely unfamiliar with my work, I recommend taking a quick peek at my original Katabasis/Anabasis Guide to Depression from 2021, on either my Instagram (@CarlJungMemes) or at the bottom of this Patreon before diving in. If you have time, I'd also recommend listening to the first episode of this series (which has not yet been revised in the same way, but will be shortly), although I do think this material is still approachable without the introduction. This is the second of two free episodes.
For patrons: This episode is part one of a revision of the second episode, explaining the dream view of reality as it relates to my model of depression. The number one piece of feedback I've received was that the original episode 2 (really, the beginning stage of this model, as the first episode is mainly introduction) was a little too technical. The goal of this episode (as well as part 2, which will be up shortly) is to shift your experience of reality, and I don't think I achieved that the first time around. I HIGHLY recommend listening to this episode no matter how comfortable you felt with the first version—some of the material is the same, but mostly it's fundamentally a different approach to the subject. The original Episode 2 will still be available if you'd like to revisit it, and I've got a lot more patreon-exclusive content coming for you guys very soon, including some non-scripted content and exploration of ideas outside the Katabasis model. Also, new intro music!
The Dream (text from the original guide):
"The Dreamer knows nothing of the Dream. Until and unless it collapses, the Dreamer cannot know anything more of the Dream than what she is, with limited vocabulary, able to gesture toward broadly—concepts like identity, worldview, self-mythology, personal narrative, ideology, belief and schema are the best words we have. I use the “Dream” to refer to our personal understanding of reality. Most of us live inside the Dream. The Dream is always, at least partially, mistaken for the truth. I will use the term Dreamer to describe the depressed individual, although life inside the Dream does not necessarily lead to experiences of mental illness—it is only when the Dream grows too distant from truth and begins to collapse. Sometimes, the dreamer is able to mend the Dream, or otherwise temporarily bolster a collapsing Dream with the help of a current prevailing ideology. Barring this, the collapsing Dream will send the dreamer into a state of crisis—this marks the beginning of a depression."
In this episode, we introduce the new reality that begins to form in the aftermath of the empowered surrender... in other words, the world of an individual whose depression has at least partially gone into remission. To prepare us for this topic, I've attempted to synthesize some of the major ideas we've covered so far—we return to metaphysics, the ineffable, the dream vs materialist views of reality, reference points, the "radical elsewhere," and how these more philosophical concepts relate to the idea of the "lost object." In the second half of the episode, we explore the phrase "the opposite of depression is expansion," the experience of atmosphere, how to go "questing," and the necessity of thwarting our own logic in overcoming depression.
While many new ideas are introduced in this episode, my intention was to structure it in such a way that it would be:
A. An introductory preview of the topics covered in the first half of this series
B. The go-to episode for anyone looking for a review of past material
We will continue to dig deeper into the bargainer's dream and expansion in the next cycle of stages (The Labyrinth, The Reclamation of the Soul, and The Third Function).
The Bargainer's Dream (text from the original guide):
With the birth of the rebel comes the birth of a new dream to stand in for the old. I refer to it as the Bargainer’s Dream because the dreamer has not yet dismantled the attachments and values that caused the first to fail. The new Dream is likely very similar to the old on a deeper level—after quitting a prestigious job and swearing off grind culture, the dreamer may chase “success” in less obvious ways.
Episode 7 is finally here, and it's a long one! Continuing on from the previous stage, The Empowered Surrender, we take a look at the rebellious psychological figure that emerges from the ruins of the collapsing dream. We start with a discussion of consciousness (as Jung would define it, according to Decoding Jung's Metaphysics by Bernardo Kastrup), and move into an exploration of bicameral mind theory (as articulated in Julian Jaynes's book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind). From here, we make our way to metaphor, language, voice dialogue, identifying the inner critic and inner monologue, anger, and the role of authority in our conscious experience of life and depression.
The Birth of the Rebel (text from the original guide):
Symbolically and psychologically, the empowered surrender allows the dreamer to step out of the dream and see it for the oppressive reality it had become. The dreamer may still be crushingly depressed, but there now is born in her a new “voice” or personality. The Rebel emerges, railing against the attachments or narratives of the collapsing dream. The Rebel is a defensive figure—its job is to protect the fragile and healing psyche. From the outside, the dreamer may appear more passionate, confident, or angry. In myth, this is the defeat of the old gods by the new.
I believe I've gotten everyone added to close friends—I just posted a cf story on instagram, if you don't see a green ring around my profile picture that means I must have missed you. Please message me, if that's the case! Additionally, for all new subscribers, please comment your instagram handle below if you'd like to be added.
Quick update on the posting schedule as well! The last two episodes have been two-parters, as you may have noticed. Although it was incredibly fun for me to get to delve deeply into each topic for the duration of two full episodes, trying to write and record 15000~ words a month is very different than trying to do 7000~ as I had originally intended. As such, I got a little behind on the episode intended for the end of December, and even more behind due to general holiday chaos, funerals, traveling, putting a pet to sleep, some fun psychosomatic weirdness/shock following putting this pet to sleep, and a nasty cold I've had for the past week (you may have seen me post about this on CF)!
I love doing this more than anything, and am aiming to get that next episode (EP 7, Birth of the Rebel) to you before the middle of the month. Episode 8 should also be coming out near the end of January or very early February. Just thought I'd give an update, and hope you all had a good or at least tolerable holiday season!
