FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E17 - Samaritan Snare
Added 2024-03-14 15:10:33 +0000 UTC
Comments
thats based on a quote from some episode where kirk said he always had his head in the bboks and dindnt party or socialize much at the academy. Its one line from TOS and has sometimes been contradicted.
David Kunard
2024-03-25 22:08:55 +0000 UTCPicard's disatance from everyone is a major aspect of his character and of Picard
David Kunard
2024-03-25 21:57:36 +0000 UTCAllow me to rephrase, because I agree with you: If I was terminally ill or stricken with some bizarre unknown space virus, Polaski is in fact getting the call. But for normal, non insane injuries or illnesses, Crusher at least has a calming, pleasant bedside manner.
John Deadcorn
2024-03-15 16:35:21 +0000 UTCThey're fine. If they think about it too hard, they'll lose the uncanny ability!
Jovet
2024-03-15 15:27:10 +0000 UTCThat is pretty laughable to me. It never once ever occurred to me that Dr Crusher would return to save Picard's life in this episode. Even before knowing the behind-the-scenes drama of her departure. For one ting, the whole point of having a Starbase is a home-away-from-home. If Dr. Crusher is on Earth, then it's nowhere near this Starbase, because that's why Starbases exist.
Jovet
2024-03-15 15:26:29 +0000 UTCI think Pulaski is the most like trapper John being replaced by BJ on Mash, and I like BJ way more than I ever liked trapper, but if you look on paper, they seem to be the same character. They’re like the tall blonde sidekick guy. With Pulaski you could say she’s “the “red headed” older lady Doctor but they are much different characters and I’ve always thought they gave Pulaski much more to do.
Philbot
2024-03-15 07:07:23 +0000 UTCShatner has really tried to change his ways since the turn of the century. He's had several shows, done several documentaries. He's tried to lighten his image, and he's also someone who does an incredible amount of research work on his projects.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-15 06:55:40 +0000 UTCActing ensign is effectively an honorary position. He's not actually a commissioned officer. Hence "acting." He can't actually be commissioned until going to the Academy and passing his exams. Star Trek has a hard time understanding what an Academy even is. Sometimes the writers are under the weird impression everyone goes there. Not every person on a starship goes to the Academy. In fact, the bulk of a ship's crew do not go to Starfleet Academy. Only to-be commissioned officers. In real world terms that would be akin to saying every soldier in the military went to West Point. The bulk of a ships crew are going to be non-coms, crewmen, and specialists who may be assigned civilian personnel in certain fields. They would still be "crew" and not "officers" though. That doesn't mean they can't be officers, it just means most of them probably aren't. Is it possible Kirk could get a commission before graduating? I mean its possible, if he saw "action" and was given a field promotion/commission, but more than likely the most he could rank/rate is "acting lieutenant" similar to his written inspiration Horatio Hornblower, who started as Midshipmen Hornblower, then became acting lieutenant before becoming a proper lieutenant. He still had to take his exams and demonstrate his acumen in the academics. Knowledge, not just daring-do. I personally don't think OG Kirk became lieutenant until he was on the Farragut (TOS: Obsession.) There's no reason he needs to be a commissioned officer to be able to teach at the Academy. Re: Trek 09, spoilers.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-15 06:54:45 +0000 UTCShe got invited to poker, breakfast at Riker’s and Worfs ascension, she’s a homie by now.
Philbot
2024-03-15 06:46:51 +0000 UTCYeah, I think I’ve read a Kindle like once, I don’t ever plan to either.
Philbot
2024-03-15 06:45:24 +0000 UTCThe way Wesley described it made it sound more bio organic. You would think in their time with replicator technology they could just whip you up a new heart, and then implant it the way they would an organ donation??
Philbot
2024-03-15 06:42:59 +0000 UTCI read and I DW comic book where Spock finds some thing in a plastic baggie and he’s kind of looking at it like “oh you know this arcane plastic which we don’t use anymore” kind of thing..
Philbot
2024-03-15 06:40:29 +0000 UTCThere’s also an antique/ heirloom quality to owning an old book..
Philbot
2024-03-15 06:26:24 +0000 UTCIn my Star Trek chronology Mike Okuda theorized that Kirk while still a cadet held the rank of Lieutenant. When he was teaching at the academy, which you’ll understand how that would translate to Trek 09’ 😉 😉 If Wesley can be an acting Ensign before ever going to the academy then surely Kirk could be a Lieutenant Cadet??
Philbot
2024-03-15 06:24:59 +0000 UTCI actually think Pulaski is the better doctor. Lol.
Greg Quinn
2024-03-15 06:15:06 +0000 UTCShatner actually wrote and directed "Chaos on the Bridge" himself!
kevin coleman
2024-03-15 02:18:45 +0000 UTCCome on, you think Wrath of---- Oh. Nevermind. (joking)
tyranusfan
2024-03-15 02:10:13 +0000 UTCOkay, hear me out. The beginning of this episode makes it sound like Picard is getting surgery on his junk The episode shows that Picard's character progression was the opposite of Kirk's. The first piece of evidence that springs to mind of Kirk being a straight-laced nerd in the academy is the fact that he got beaten up by the jock Finnegan. In Shore Leave, the illusion of Finnegan kicks Kirk in the junk. It's all connected!
Jeff Cornell
2024-03-15 01:36:19 +0000 UTCCAUTION: You guys might need to implement your own speculation warning. Your track record. Of predicting things that will happen in the next episode and how they might connect to other Star Trek properties, or movies is downright scary. So I suggest that the phrase spoiler warning could be synonymous with speculation warning Not saying don’t speculate just stop hopping into the Time Machine and setting all these so called coincidences up. 🤣🤔😎😎😏🙃😀😅😯 🖖🏼
Thicketdweller
2024-03-15 00:47:24 +0000 UTCFor sure. That's why I suggested this non spoiler 1st season video from reading rainbow. 🥰
Andrea R
2024-03-15 00:20:18 +0000 UTCHah, glad you guys like my comment though. I'm pretty sure in the episode his heart was said to be an implant and not a transplant? Course I was listening more to you guys than the episode, so I can't say for certain. It's really funny, I watched another pair of reactors watch through TNG and they had a GREATLY different vibe than you guys, (which is great, everyone watches shows different, that's why these channels have audiences) but they also really thought this episode would be a good Crusher return point and were equally frustrated by the scene. Geordi really shoulda beamed over with some apricots instead of a phaser. That'll make em go.
Nolan
2024-03-14 23:57:11 +0000 UTCI am NEVER giving up physical books. It's more than just consuming the content, it's a whole tactile experience. The smell. Books aren't going away. And in Star Trek TNG where they can replicate any matter they wish? Fuget about it. Plus, we've seen them using physical books in the show already. I guess in TOS it was strange that Kirk's lawyer was using books, so perhaps his enthusiasm brought the medium back, though I doubt it fully went away.
Nolan
2024-03-14 23:32:18 +0000 UTCYeah, they can't watch Chaos on the Bridge until about season 4.
tyranusfan
2024-03-14 23:29:15 +0000 UTCYup. And the type of paper and ink commonly used for books give off an aged vanilla smell as they get older. Often ranked among the most popular scents in surveys.
Avaria
2024-03-14 22:28:15 +0000 UTCSince it may be too early to watch "Chaos on the Bridge," may I suggest a 10 min youtube of Levar Burton on reading rainbow, exploring the set. When this came out, I was so stoked to see my favorite show on Reading Rainbow! I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links or not, as I'm new, but I'll put it below. https://youtu.be/uIRz_qpgD-0?si=-KkRSwNggYdrxiby
Andrea R
2024-03-14 22:20:48 +0000 UTCSpock gave Kirk the physical copy of "Tale of Two Cities".
Avaria
2024-03-14 22:20:44 +0000 UTCWell, being nuanced here is difficult without saying spoilers but let's clarify one point - There is a distinct difference between things happening to someone, and someone fundamentally being different. By the end of Season 3, if you were among the bridge crew on board the Enterprise, you would be able to make a fair appraisal of Picard as a character and as a captain and person. If that's the school assignment, you could do it.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-14 22:16:29 +0000 UTCAdd me to the list. I'm also a physical books guy.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-14 22:10:42 +0000 UTCWithout spoilers, Picard actually evolves through each season of TNG. Kirk, for the most part, stays the same (in TOS) except for turning a little more into a drama queen as a result of Shatner’s acting choices, and insecurity after Nimoy got an Emmy nom.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-03-14 21:10:30 +0000 UTCI definitely still prefer physical books I can read them faster.
Jonathan
2024-03-14 21:03:14 +0000 UTCPhysical gifts would absolutely exist in the future. They wouldnt still be produced to you guys' point but old books would still exist as novelties or collectors items. Just like vinyl and other forms of physical media currently. Remember Kirk received a pair of bifocals from Bones as a birthday gift and glasses are not used or needed in the future. Perhaps that book was given to Picard as a gift. Or as you guys learn his character it is very conceivable that Picard would go out of his way to get a hard copy of his favorite books. Remember he made a statement in that very scene about appreciation of the past.
Toysruskiddd
2024-03-14 20:46:29 +0000 UTCIf I was ill and needed a doctor, absolutely I'm going to see Crusher. But if I was bored and going out for drinks, you know Pulaski can hang.
John Deadcorn
2024-03-14 20:23:01 +0000 UTCI still much prefer a physical book over a scree....🤷♂️
Greg Quinn
2024-03-14 20:17:10 +0000 UTCI thought Picard was getting hair plugs lol
Captain Proton
2024-03-14 20:15:18 +0000 UTCPicard gave Data a book also.
Just another Red Shirt
2024-03-14 20:07:18 +0000 UTCYeah the replicator kind of makes the whole discussion irrelevant when you can make whatever you want lol
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-14 19:33:22 +0000 UTCI really enjoy "Chaos on the Bridge", Shatner does a really deep and thoughtful treatment of a show he had nothing to do with creating and it's a fantastic oral history of the troubled start to TNG.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-03-14 19:16:33 +0000 UTCThe idea about physical books is that Picard i a traditionalist. He would rather read a printed book than a computer screen. You could replicate any book you want too.
Mike Rogers
2024-03-14 19:09:20 +0000 UTCYeah, still working it out
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-14 18:14:35 +0000 UTCDefinite lighting change in this reaction/discussion. Looks nice
James Bottas
2024-03-14 18:12:46 +0000 UTC{Rod Serling grins}
StonyD
2024-03-14 17:41:26 +0000 UTCPlenty of books to this point. Q throws a copy of the complete works of Shakespeare at Picard in Hide and Q.
JGoss
2024-03-14 17:35:02 +0000 UTCShe's fine.
Jovet
2024-03-14 17:32:44 +0000 UTCIt's a good doc, but bizarre in hindsight because Shatner for years claimed he never watched TNG, and all of a sudden he himself commissions a documentary about it? Maurice Hurley describing the early season production as "wack-a-doo" and the characterizations of Gene's lawyer were the most memorable parts.
JGoss
2024-03-14 17:30:42 +0000 UTCPost- season 3 would be too early to fully explore Picard in a Kirk vs Picard video, IMO. I can't say much beyond that due to spoilers. TOS Kirk, there's not much difference in his character from episode to episode, but you can probably already tell a shift in Picard from Encounter at Farpoint through current.
JGoss
2024-03-14 17:27:36 +0000 UTCIt was in that jar of blue liquid in the OR if you want another look
James Bottas
2024-03-14 17:26:00 +0000 UTCDidn’t McCoy give Kirk a physical book for his birthday? It’s been established that some people still prefer to read physical books in the future. It makes sense for Picard.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-03-14 17:23:12 +0000 UTCYou two getting more and more annoyed by Pulaski is a highlight of this season run. You allude to the next episode which you've already seen so not a spoiler, which has perhaps her best scene to date. Had we had more of that earlier on, and less shitting on Data, she would have fit in much better.
JGoss
2024-03-14 17:16:46 +0000 UTCI mean, musical recording first happened in the 1800s... That's nothing really. Books have been a thing practically as long as humans have had language. They're a part of us no matter how popular digital gets. Also, the resurgence of DVD and BluRay is already happening. There's an increasing amount of stories and attention lately about media being lost because of the streaming age and digital rights issues.
James Bottas
2024-03-14 17:16:35 +0000 UTCI understood that reference
James Bottas
2024-03-14 17:13:02 +0000 UTCYeah I don't think Picard keeps around a lot of actual 20th/21st century or before books to take on his trips but you can easily replicate any book you please and Picard is just enough of a classicist to really enjoy the sensation of going through a paper book.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-03-14 17:13:01 +0000 UTCGiven that, the Kobayashi Maru story in WOK is a bit of a retcon, it doesn't quite fit with the description we are given about Kirk's early years in the show itself.
JGoss
2024-03-14 17:12:46 +0000 UTC"Watch out for Lieutenant Kirk. In his class, you either think or sink."
James Bottas
2024-03-14 17:11:33 +0000 UTCTo quote Giles from Buffy, "books smell". There's an organic, tactile, even transportive feeling they bring that can't be duplicated with a screen. Even replicated books can be passed down as keepsakes from family or friends, cherished as heirlooms, kept on shelves rather than just saved in a file (though obviously that would happen a lot too; much moreso in fact).
Tristan Cray
2024-03-14 16:51:06 +0000 UTCYou never know. People thought vinyl was dead and there was that big resurgence in the 2010s, and CDs are apparently having a comeback. I think once things start becoming more difficult to find / keep on a streaming platform, the DVD and Blu-Ray format might start becoming more sought after.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-03-14 16:51:04 +0000 UTC15:45 Yes, it's an entirely artificial whole replacement for his heart.
Jovet
2024-03-14 16:49:45 +0000 UTCAlex mentioned he wishes there was a website where it tells you which episodes have character stuff and story stuff. There's actually a really good site like that I recommended to people watching Deep Space Nine. Says which episodes can be "skippable" which ones are important to the overarching story, and which ones aren't necessary to watch but have good character development. Obviously, I wouldn't recommend that to you guys, but those resources do exist.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-03-14 16:45:30 +0000 UTCCrusher still had the most obvious "Why don't you just shut it off???" line...
Jovet
2024-03-14 16:36:31 +0000 UTCI understand that the writing team wanted a varied set of stories and were trying to come up with something unusual here. However, 'Samaritan Snare' is very low stakes, because the plot requires so much taking leave of common sense by the Enterprise crew. Pulaski was intended to offer a contrast to Crusher. Honestly, Pulaski is a far more competent medical professional. Crusher was written as missing the obvious to keep the plots going. Pulaski has a sandpaper bedside manner, while Crusher is all bedside manner and sporadic competence.
Numinous2019
2024-03-14 16:32:07 +0000 UTCYeah, I own over 600 Blu-rays so I agree with you on the value but I’m not optimistic about its future.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-14 16:30:36 +0000 UTCI don't think I agree on your statement about there not being a need for physical books, and physical media dying out. There will always be a love for physical media. I know personally, work in tech and I still prefer to touch paper on a real book when reading, and even though I stream music at work, I have a giant collection of vinyl. Even if it's not practical, us humans still seem to have a strange connection to things we can touch and feel.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-03-14 16:28:47 +0000 UTCThat's a loaded question. Magic 8 Ball says ask again later.
Stephen Wright
2024-03-14 16:19:03 +0000 UTCJust be sure your glasses don't break! ;)
Stephen Wright
2024-03-14 16:16:06 +0000 UTCThere IS actually a documentary about the first two seasons. And it was created by William Shatner :D However wait a while to watch it, there's still some spoilers in there. I think once you reach season 4 it's safe to watch it :) It's called "Chaos on the Bridge" Edit: Oh common Josh, saying that the second after I write this comment... :P
Andreas Schmitt
2024-03-14 16:12:41 +0000 UTCYou’re on 🤝
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-14 15:49:07 +0000 UTCI think your first point is a good one; I'll wager you 10,000 quatloos that I'm right, though. If there's still books in 400 years, send me a cheque. To the second point, I would expect books to survive a nuclear holocaust better than computers.
John M.
2024-03-14 15:42:37 +0000 UTCI think that would work. Certainly at the time people were making comparisons. I think by the end of Season 3 you have a reasonable understanding of Picard to do a healthy comparison. Especially if you plan to do one then, and then one later. It's not that your opinions are likely to wholesale change, but it would certainly be interesting to basically time stamp how you feel about them there, vs after the last TNG movie.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-14 15:38:52 +0000 UTCWhat both of those things bring is the element of performance. Musical instruments haven't seemed to be culturally replaced by their virtual counterpart the way that books have, probably due to the aesthetic they bring to the performance aspect of music. Similarly, I would argue any physical performance such as a play will always be around, because humans will always want to perform in front of one another. There is aesthetic and value to physical books, but I don't think it's enough to keep them around another several centuries. Especially if that time included an apocalyptic level world war that would most likely destroy a lot of the ones we have.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-14 15:37:57 +0000 UTCIs the Kirk vs Picard video fair to make after season 3 if we don’t take the TOS movies into account? Then doing it again after the TNG movies to compare them totally?
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-14 15:30:04 +0000 UTCI think you're dead wrong about the books thing. By that logic, we wouldn't need musical instruments or plays either.
John M.
2024-03-14 15:29:33 +0000 UTCIn Where No Man, Kirk is referred to as a "Walking stack of books with legs." He had a high Academic test score, even taught classes at the Academy before taking command of the Enterprise. There's a reason in Wrath of Khan, Spock and Him are basically running the Academy training program. Kirk was a very high aptitude guy. he was also just way more adept at punching aliens in the face when the situation called for it. Which is why he's still my favorite captain.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-14 15:27:16 +0000 UTC
